Hail [Suspect]

[benthenoob]

UPDATED TEAM!!!:
Refer to below quote for V.1

----------------------------------------------------

Abomasnow@Leftovers
[Snow Warning]
Sassy (+SpD, -Spe)
252 HP / 84 SpA / 174 SpD

- Wood Hammer
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

UPDATED

Ok...So the EV's still probably need some work. I find it so hard to find a truly workable Abomasnow. SubPuncher generally did the most damage (Metanite), but this one is a direct Manaphy counter, so I've opted to use it. (Thanks darknessmalice).

He's leading for the fact that I lack a stronger lead. Starts out Hail, Blizzard on things like Areodactyl (on Taunt) or Hippowdon, Wood Hammer on Swampert, and flees on most other leads. He's slower than TTar, so I get Hail when both are lead or switched in at the same time.

Generally, much better than my initial Abomasnow, but still leaves something to be desired.

Blissey@Leftovers
[Natural Cure]
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD

- Flamethrower
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

UPDATED

I've changed from my standard, favorite Bliss to WishBliss. I really miss having Seismic Toss against Heatran, but Gliscor and Tentacruel help to check the threat.

Passing wish around has been a huge help I have to admit. (Thanks Erazor). I am not sure whether or not to run T-Wave, since Blissey is usually the only member of my team that can consistently put Toxic on Zapdos. But T-Wave has some distinct advantages; crippling everything that gives Walrein problems except Flygon. Then again, Toxic is near required on Blissey to beat other Blissey, Celebi or non Rest-Cress.

As for the EVs, I'm tempted to go 40 SpA / 212 SpD, since things hit harder than normal. But I've not done the math on Flamethrower against things like Metagross, Roserade, and Bronzong to justify the change. So I'll just follow the analysis and hope for the best.

Walrein@Leftovers
[Ice Body]
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
220 HP / 252 Def / 36 SpD

- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Blizzard

UPDATED

Little was changed.

I opted for Toxic for late game instances where I need to lay it on something. Also, Tentacruel is not as reliable a Toxic Spiker as Roserade is in my opinion. (Or at least he isn't in my hands). Blizzard was chosen over Surf b/c Walrein is (sadly) my only real check against Salamence, Dragonite, and Flygon (All of which fly over Toxic Spikes and hit harder/faster than the rest of my team).

The Evs remained largely the same. Since I dropped Roar, there is no need to outspeed Skarmory's whirlwind, and I don't see a whole lot of point in out speeding Metagross.

Rotom-H@Choice Scarf
[Levitate]
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
HP 200 / SpA 56 / 252 Spe

- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

UPDATED

As per Erazor's instructions, I exchanged Rotom-F for Rotom-H. Rotom-H was needed for a Scizor counter more than anything else. TrickScarf version was chosen to do what Special Attack Trickers do, lure and cripple Blissey and other walls. Shadow Ball is sort of a throw away move for the secondary STAB. However, this leaves me very "Dragon Weak," so changes were made to the team to try to accommodate this.

EV's are weird. I wanted to add a bit more bulk, whilst keeping Scarfed Rotom alive as a solid threat. I'd have to run the calcs (but I don't) to see if I'm missing on OHKO's on pokemon like Metagross or Lucario.

Donphan@Leftovers
[Sturdy]
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def

- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

NEW

As per the suggestions of darknessmalice, I swapped out Gliscor for Donphan. Donphan serves all of Gliscor's purposes better, with the only exception being he is not as fast, so Lucario can still potentially sweep. However, Donphan also checks Salamence, Flygon, and Dragonite with priority Ice Shard (although I wish it hit harder).

Most importantly, Donphan is the Tyanitar check I needed. I will still test Gliscor in this role slight only because I prefer his speed and U-turn resist. But I imagine Donphan may hold this spot.

Tentacruel@Leftovers
[Liquid Ooze]
Calm (+SpD, -SpA)
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb

NEW

As per darknessmalice's suggestion, I am using Tentacruel rather than Roserade to set up Toxic Spikes. The decision was made largely because with so many Tentacruel around, Roserade's spikes were often being absorbed and she was too dead to set them up again. So now, Tentacruel sets them up on his own. I tried Forretress for a while, but his lack of...doing much of anything besides setting up spikes was a deterrant.

Also, adding another Fire weak was bad.

The few defense EV's help it stand up to Infernape, although I need to run calcs on whether it is more able to stand up to: (a) Infernape or (b) Manaphy/Abomasnow.

The moveset is relatively standard. Sludge Bomb was added over the other options due to the presence of Abomasnow.

----------------------------------------------------

TEAM RECAP:

----------------------------------------------------

RETIRED

Gliscor@Leftovers
[Sand Veil]
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe

- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

Gliscor is a new and an odd choice. This is the rationale: I needed something that could Stealth Rock. I needed something to use against Tyranitar, which was destroying me. Finally, I didn't mind if it had a little bulk. Perhaps it was escapeing me, but I couldn't think of much else. I know Brick Break doesn't do a whole lot against Tyranitar. But hopefully, with Poison and Stealth Rock damage, Gliscor's Brick Break can bring him within KO range for something else on my team. I tried Infernape for a little bit, as a lead and as a normal team member, but he lacked enough bulk to do either really effectively.

Also, with the addition of Tentacruel to the line-up, it was nice to have and Electric immune.

The remainder of the moves are self-explanitory. Earthquake for STAB, Roost because it's Roost, and Stealth Rock because it is SR.

EV's give Gliscor enough Speed to outrun Lucario and non-scarf Heatran.

If someone as bad as I am is having decent success with this team, it must not be all terrible...

TEAM AT A GLANCE

----------------------------------------------------

Roserade@Focus Sash
[Natural Cure]
Timid (+Spe, -Atk) 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]

When it was popular in UU, I never understood why more people didn't lead off with Roserade. Typical support Rose. Sleep Powder, then (hopefully) get up 2 layers of Toxic Spikes. Obviously, T-Spikes are huge for Hail.

Leaf Storm is the necessary STAB, and HP Fire is just there...well to be there. It hits steels, incomming Celebi's, and Scizor.

I also like Rose b/c she doesn't betray the emphasis of my team. LeadApe is a problem, especially when Scarfed. If it is, I'm sort of screwed. If it isn't, I just need to hope Powder hits.

I think she's pretty standard, but I am open to ideas.

Abomasnow@Leftovers
[Snow Warning]
Timid [+Spe, -Atk] 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Grass Knot
- Blizzard

Obviously, Hail Teams need Abomasnow. I especially like Hail in Suspect b/c everyone, at least now, is focusing on Rain Dance teams to abuse Manaphy. Aboma is not only a nice counter for their Dance but counters the little prince himself pretty well.

I think the move list is fine, but I had no idea what to do with EV's. All I really want is to insure I can outspeed Neutral, 252 Spe Tyranitars, since TTar is frequently brought into play to counter Dances.

So better EV's would be great.

Walrein@Leftovers
[Ice Body]
Bold [+Def, -Atk] 220 HP / 240 Def / 48 Spe

- Substitute
- Protect
- Surf
- Roar

Standard Stallrein. Acts as the team's "Sweeper." Going into much more detail is sort of needless. Get toxic on monsters, stall monsters with Ice Body and Leftovers.

I chose Roar over Toxic b/c hopefully Blissey is laying Toxic on common Flying pokemon and Levitators (Togekiss, Zapdos, Rotom) and Bronzong is laying it on other random things like Outrage-locked Salamence, Flygon, etc. Also, I just don't feel comfortable w/o something that carries roar/whirlwind. [I'm not good enough to deal w/ Stat-uppers and BP-ers yet].

I picked Surf over Blizzard b/c it has more PP, better coverage, and 2 other pokemon already carry Blizzard.

That may be a bad idea though. Toxic+Surf or Blizzard+Roar seem to have more synergy.

Blissey@Leftovers
[Natural Cure]
Calm (+SpD, -Atk) 252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 SpD

- Seismic Toss
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Softboiled

This is the Blissey I've been using a lot lately. Pretty standard as well. Flamethrower to hit Scizor switch-ins, random Maggy's, and insure's I'm not walled by the likes of Dusknoir, Gengar, and Rotom.

Seismic Toss Blissey single-handedly destroys Heatran. Its nice to have him out of the way so I don't have to worry about Zong and Aboma. As mentioned earlier, Bliss also puts Toxic on Zapdos, which could cause some issues.

Rotom-F@Leftovers
[Levitate]
Bold (+Def, -Atk) 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Being that Toxic Spikes are so integral to the Team's victory condition, a Spin blocker was necessary. Rotom is obviously the best one in the game, and Rotom-F fit the team nicely.

I chose the Restalk version just to add more bulk to the team and increase the team's stall factor. Thunderbolt was chosen over Discharge b/c of its greater base power and I want things to be toxic-ed not paralyzed.

There really isn't much more to add here. I think Rotom-F is absolutely necessary. I could use Rotom-H as well if another Fire move would be useful. But I think I have that covered with Blissey and Roserade.

Bronzong@Leftovers
[Levitate]
Sassy (-Spe, +Def) 252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD

- Gyro Ball
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

This is the one member of the team I am very unsure of. I needed something with bulk, something that could set up rocks, and something that could Toxic. Zong fit the bill.

Metagross meets the requirements just as well and gives me a priority move in Bullet Punch. Also, I lack any sort of physical attack at this point. However, he lacks the same amount of bulk.

Or, something else all together may be preferable.

I am unsure where to go here

----------------------------------------------------
Team Recap:

Rate this noob's team!!!

 

[Erazor]

All right, let's see what we can do.

First, Abomasnow. So you want it to outspeed neutral nature/max Speed TTar? Well, Adamant Tyranitar has 221 speed, so Timid and 184 speed EVs puts you at 222. You can't outrun Jolly t-tar though. Dump the other EV's into HP or defenses.
Also, since this is for the Suspect metagame, i highly recommend Energy ball over Grass Knot, simply because it hits Manaphy much harder.

You also need Abomasnow to remain alive for as long as possible, since smart players don't reveal Manaphy till the late game. So i recommend changing Blissey to a WishBliss with Wish, protect, Seismic toss, and Thunder wave. This also helps neutralise Scarf Hetaran and Gengar(although you'll have to switch out of gengar after that). I know Paralysis conflicts with T-Spikes, but Heatran doesn't care about Toxic or toxic spikes.

Which leads to Rotom. Change it to Heat form, with Overheat. Relying on Blissey and a frail roserade to beat scizor is risky, and Rotom is the best Scizor counter in the game. HOWEVER, this might lead to an extreme DDMence weak. So use Ice Beam or Blizzard on Walrein instead of surf.

Your Walrein's EVs are a bit off, must be a typo. Invest the speed EVs into Special defence.

Bronzong... hmmm. Let's try out a Metagross lead, with SR, Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, and BOOM. Don't invest in speed, use Adamant 252 atk/252 HP with occa berry.

This leads to Roserade. You could change it to a Scarfer with the same moveset, maybe without Sleep Powder. Use Weather Ball instead. It's used in UU, and should be viable in OU as well. It now serves as a revenge killer as well.

Try it out, and post back with your results. Best of luck!

Hope I helped,

 

[acinod]

First of all you don't need so much Toxic on the team. I recommend you replace Toxic for Trick Room on Bronzong as most of your team is slow besides your lead but its suppose to lay down spikes and die. To make greater use of Trick Room I recommend Clefable with the following set:

LVL 2 Clefable@Focus Sash
[Magic Guard]
IVs + EVs don't matter

- Endeavor
- Protect
- Encore
- Healing Wish

This will be a very powerful Pokemon on your team because it can kill at least 1 Pokemon. Under Trick Room it'll kill at least 2. First of all you Endeavor, leaving them at red HP so that at the end of the turn they die to hail. You will of course be left with 1 HP, but if you have Trick Room working, then you can Endeavor again and get one Pokemon down before you die. This is a very effective way to get rid of threats because people never suspect it coming. Protect helps scout moves and stall for one more turn so that they take damage from hail and poison. Encore is used against those that resist hail and you know they will not kill you with that move. Healing Wish is great if your Walrein gets statused or you just need to heal a Pokemon back to full HP because sometimes Clefable will be useless and its the only thing you can do to support the team.

 

[Erazor]

Acinod, you have to make a dedicated Trick Room team for Trick Room to work, and that would mean making a whole new team.

 

[acinod]

Well my team has a Bronzong that sets up Stealth Rock and Trick Room and then Explodes. Killing them. Then I send in Clefable and kill 2 more.

You don't need a whole team to benefit from Trick Room. Just like you don't need a whole team centred around one Pokemon.

 

[Erazor]

Ok, if you're going to suggest that Clefable, than what are you suggesting Ben replaces? Abomasnow is vital, no one walls like Blissey, and as this is the suspect test for Manaphy, we wouldn't dump Bliss. Stallrein is near broken in hail, so we're not removing that. And Bronzong will set up trick room.

So that leaves Roserade and Rotom.
Removing Rotom opens up a...huge Scizor weakness.

So, you're going to have to remove Roserade, which sets up T-Spikes.

What I'm trying to say is that this Clefable doesn't fit into the team. It's very deadly, but it doesn' fit.

 

[Bakachild]

I don't have time for a long rate but this looks Stall oriented and SD Lucario look to make noise with this team. Rotom is your counter, well actually, it is the heart of your team because you need the fighting immunity because you have plenty of pokemon that are weak to it. Like I said, I don't have time for a full rate but try out this Rotom set it is really useful and helpful for Stall Teams.

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Modest
EV: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

Trick
Will-O-Wisp
Oveheat
Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt

ScarfRotom really puts a check on some pokemon that normally wreck stall team. It is bulky so it could still take hits, it just needs to work well with Blissey's wish. Will-O-Wisp is great against the most brutal sweepers not named Infernape. Overheat is a move to deliver the punishing blow on Scizor, Heracross, Lucario switch ins. Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt are your options for another STAB move. If you want a more defensive / bulkier oriented Rotom go with the spread 120 HP / 136 SpA / 252 Speed

 

[MetaNite]

Your abomasnow doesn't seem to be doing much. It uses Leech Seed as the foe's Heatran switches in, uses Protect, then you are forced to switch. I see no point in that. Instead, change it to a Subseeder:

Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch

This set can really screw over many teams. Suicune, Vaporeon, Cressalia, Blissey, and many other Pokemon like that can't break your Substitutes making them set up bait. Focus Punch really hammers Tyranitar for a clean kill, aswell as hurting Blissey and Heatran too.

I'd replace Bronzong for Taunt Skarmory. It's a new set found here:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

It is pretty much Bronzong with recovery and less SpD. Taunt is generally a great move for a stall team, and you still got Toxic and Spikes for switch ins.

A problem I forsee for this team is Stealth Rock. You don't have a spinner which will deeply hurt your main stall Pokemon, Abomasnow and Stallrein. Tentacruel usually does well, and you could very well make it your lead. I'm not sure how that'll fare however. Maybe Shuca Berry Squid?

 

[Pombo]

I dont know the EVs, but im pretty sure that Hammer Arm Abomasnow is better than Energy Ball ones, simply becase hammer arm hits CM Manaphy harder. The only thing that can try to phaze it is Walrein, and im pretty sure Zong explosion doesnt kill it. Blissey can do anything. Rotom lacks firepower to kill it. If Leafstorm doesnt kill, you will have to make 2 switches to use it again, which means 1 full heal and another CM.

 

[Darkmalice]

I'm against the ideal of a suicide lead with Toxic Spikes. Tentacruel is common in the Suspect ladder, for he does a great job walling Manaphy and many Swift Swimmers whilst setting up Toxic Spikes himself (I must admit that it works great against Rain teams).


So first off, have Abomasnow as a lead. Your Abomasnow is very much a mixed sweeper. I would use the standard set with Wood Hammer in place of Grass Knot and a Sassy nature with 252 HP / 84 SpA / 174 SpD. The HP and Special Defense help it sponge Ice Beams. Wood Hammer, when coupled with Leech Seed, will always 2HKO 252 HP / 0 SDef Manaphy, meaning it will be forced to use Hydra-Rest repeatedly until you score a crit. Leftovers and Leech Seed with keep Abomasnow alive in this process. He still has enough SpA to 2HKO Skarmory and enough Speed to outrun Impish Swampert. This spread is recommended for the Mixed Attacker.

Replace Roserade with Tentacruel. He sets up Toxic Spikes and removes it more reliably. He's one of the best counter to Infernape, who would otherwise have an easy time sweeping your team.

 

[benthenoob]

Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions and fixes.

I have tested and taken them all into consideration. Unfortunately, Hail no longer surprises anyone on the ladder, and I found people running almost exact duplicates of my prior team (LOL).

Hopefully this newer version has some more consistency and covers some of the earlier version's weaknesses better while limiting its own shortcomings.

RMT!!!! Again!!!

 

[Darkmalice]

Walrein gets OHKOed by +1 LO Outrage from Salamence if SR is up. So does Gliscor You need a Salamence check. I recommend Donphan in place of Gliscor. Yes, it sounds strange. But Donphan can take that attack and pose a threat with Ice Shard. It still sets up SR. It's better against Tyranitar than Gliscor, for he resists Stone Edge. He also boasts a more powerful Earthquake. Have Roar as the last move so as to annoy Rain teams that rely on switching, and to spread Toxic Spikes and SR damage hopefully before your opponent sends out Tentacruel (who is afraid of switching in on Earthquake) - plus you already have a Rapid Spinner. Donphan does lack recovery, but Blissey has Wish, and Donphan is much more durable than Gliscor. He also lacks a ground resist, but Rotom sports that. Finally, Donphan reliably beats Lucario, whilst Gliscor fails against Jolly variants, which usually carry Ice Punch.

Should this advice be ignored, replace Brick Break with U-turn. Brick Break and Earthquake do the same amount of damage to Tyranitar. U-turn can scout for Water pokemon that switch-in on Gliscor. Also make Gliscor Jolly to outspeed +speed nature base 90s and neutral nature 100s.

 

[wildfire393]

Brick Break on Gliscor is a bad idea. You say it is to check Tyranitar, but why would you use it over Earthquake? Brick Break has BP 75 X4 = 300 against him, but EQ has BP 100 x STAB x 2 = 300 as well. In addition, Neutral Brick Break does the same as a resisted EQ and SE Brick Break does as much as a Neutral EQ. And just about every Pokemon who is immune to EQ also resists or is Immune to Brick Break (Gengar, Latias, Azelf, Cresselia, Rotom, etc) besides Flygon. Change it to Ice Fang or Stone Edge. Ice Fang is slightly stronger against Dragons (and hits Flygon), but Stone Edge is the better attack overall.

Also, by the way, you forgot to list a set on Tentacruel.

 

[benthenoob]

darknessmalice/wildfire:

You guys are absolutely right - Gliscor was a bad decision. And yeah - when I was doing my calcs w/ gliscor I kept forgetting to add STAB on EQ, which is why I had Brick Break on the set. (See - told you I was a noob!).

I added Donphan, who, as darkness suggested, is doing very well in that slot. I had forgotten all about him since he is usually considered to be so inferior, but he serves the role he is needed for on this team well.

 

[blasphemy1]

One nitpick: Why not just run Choice Specs Rotom-F? Overheat sucks, especially on hail teams, where Tyranitar will switch in expecting it, leaving you open to Pursuit, and also without a spin-blocker(for the few spinners that are still used). Choice Specs Thunderbolt OHKOs Scizor with Stealth Rock down, and you have Hail going anyways, so that shouldn't be an issue.