Specs chandelure overheat can even OHKO a 252 HP / 252+ SpD sableye
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Halloween Party Competition
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Specs chandelure overheat can even OHKO a 252 HP / 252+ SpD sableye
That's one of the only "counters" and there are three problems with that:
1) overheat accuracy + swagger possibility
2) instant and easy revenge kill
3) switch out into own chandelure with flash fire
Mega Banette can Prankster Taunt and is faster; the only issue is it doesn't have Prankster on the turn it Megavolves.
By the way, I'm running a shiny 6IV ghost giveaway at the moment, and am hoping to expand selection throughout the month. There are super-sized Gourgeists available among other things. Might give you a shot at that all-shiny ghost team if you weren't hoping to use Golurk or Hidden Power.
Another issue is that Banette is destroyed completely by Foul Play and Banette can't OHKO with any of it's moves (Phantom Force only just scrapes a 2HKO and it's predictable af). If the Sableye correctly predicts the Taunt you're dead. The check I like to use is Lum Berry Spiritomb; it gets mileage out of it anyway with all the WoW spam and with a 2x boost from Swagger it can sweep teams if Sableye is weakened enough to punch through with Feint Attack (a surprisingly reliable attack imo, if a little weak).
2 OP Sets when used correctly.
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia (Mega-Prankster)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Knock Off
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
Banette is greater than Gengar in 2 ways. 1. Priority. Prankster makes Banette the best D-Bonder in the game and gets priority on all moves except Knock Off. Whenever I don't get priority D-Bond, I use Knock Off to keep the D-Bond effect if it kills, if not, its a super effective move for most of the meta. 2. Bulk. Banette can withstand most attacks that are super effective such as Knock Off (Banettite, Duh) and Shadow Sneak. Then it ultimately can set up a D-Bond and trade a kill. Banette has some decent strength to it too so Shadow Sneak is a must.
Drifblim @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Phantom Force
- Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Memento
As one of the quickest ghost mons, Drifblim gets viability. Phantom Force + Power Herb is used for a good unburden set. After Unburden, the 110 Power in Acrobatics is all yours and it can break through the Gourgeist Tanks and memento out of the battle if needed. However, Drifblim is pretty frail so avoid shadow sneakers and prankster.
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia (Mega-Prankster)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Knock Off
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
Banette is greater than Gengar in 2 ways. 1. Priority. Prankster makes Banette the best D-Bonder in the game and gets priority on all moves except Knock Off. Whenever I don't get priority D-Bond, I use Knock Off to keep the D-Bond effect if it kills, if not, its a super effective move for most of the meta. 2. Bulk. Banette can withstand most attacks that are super effective such as Knock Off (Banettite, Duh) and Shadow Sneak. Then it ultimately can set up a D-Bond and trade a kill. Banette has some decent strength to it too so Shadow Sneak is a must.
Drifblim @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Phantom Force
- Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Memento
As one of the quickest ghost mons, Drifblim gets viability. Phantom Force + Power Herb is used for a good unburden set. After Unburden, the 110 Power in Acrobatics is all yours and it can break through the Gourgeist Tanks and memento out of the battle if needed. However, Drifblim is pretty frail so avoid shadow sneakers and prankster.
A. Ew, Phantom Force Banette.
B. You obviously aren't using Banette right. You have to D-Bond if theres a Foul Play threat.
C. Get a Will-O-Wisp in if the opposition isn't going to OHKO.
D. Banette can OHKO with Knock Off on some of the mons (Not Spiritomb or Sableye obviously)
Congrats! I need to start practicing myself....hmmm....maybe after one more game of smash...
I only ever use the same 3 for my team. What sort of odd-ball issues are you having?
Sableye, Sableye....
Sableye has two weaknesses. One is its lack of Destiny Bond, and the other is strong special attackers it cannot burn or do significant damage to via Foul Play. (Knock Off really hurts, though.)
- Weakness Policy is activated by Knock Off, so Aegi can take the Knock Off or whatever else Sableye is running and hit it in the face.
+2 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 157-186 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is entirely dependent on speed tiers. Aegi will lose to -Speed Sableye, but I don't anticipate this being run due to losing to other Sableye. Taunt kills King's Shield (or Sub) so it will leave you open to revenge kills.
- If you can get Mega Banette safely on the field you can Taunt it. Knock Off nearly 2HKOs if you are running 252 HP, frailer variants will not win 1v1 and will have to force a trade via Destiny Bond.
- Chandelure should be Specs. It does not fear anything in Sableye's support repertoire but should watch out for Knock Off that will not only ruin its OHKO chances but do hefty damage: 0 Atk Sableye Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 172 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 96-114 (61.1 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is a fairly bulky Chandelure taking ridiculous damage from no investment >.> But unless the enemy has a Chandelure of their own or a random Jellicent, nothing else in the tier wants to take a Specs Fire Blast or Overheat to the face so it's a pretty safe option to spam if you can get it in safely.
- Mega Gengar will outmuscle it: 252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 79-94 (50.3 - 59.8%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Mixed Spiritomb will also outmuscle it, but may lose its item, find its priority crippled and unable to Destiny Bond before getting revenged
- If they carry any attacking moves to get around Taunt, Cofagrigus can remove Prankster. It is bulky enough to survive a few Knock Offs, but should be last resort and also use that time to set up TR for an appropriate counterattack. Of course, Sableye can then also spread Mummy but it's just a worse Spiritomb once you remove Prankster.
Sableye has two weaknesses. One is its lack of Destiny Bond, and the other is strong special attackers it cannot burn or do significant damage to via Foul Play. (Knock Off really hurts, though.)
- Weakness Policy is activated by Knock Off, so Aegi can take the Knock Off or whatever else Sableye is running and hit it in the face.
+2 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 157-186 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is entirely dependent on speed tiers. Aegi will lose to -Speed Sableye, but I don't anticipate this being run due to losing to other Sableye. Taunt kills King's Shield (or Sub) so it will leave you open to revenge kills.
- If you can get Mega Banette safely on the field you can Taunt it. Knock Off nearly 2HKOs if you are running 252 HP, frailer variants will not win 1v1 and will have to force a trade via Destiny Bond.
- Chandelure should be Specs. It does not fear anything in Sableye's support repertoire but should watch out for Knock Off that will not only ruin its OHKO chances but do hefty damage: 0 Atk Sableye Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 172 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 96-114 (61.1 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is a fairly bulky Chandelure taking ridiculous damage from no investment >.> But unless the enemy has a Chandelure of their own or a random Jellicent, nothing else in the tier wants to take a Specs Fire Blast or Overheat to the face so it's a pretty safe option to spam if you can get it in safely.
- Mega Gengar will outmuscle it: 252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 79-94 (50.3 - 59.8%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Mixed Spiritomb will also outmuscle it, but may lose its item, find its priority crippled and unable to Destiny Bond before getting revenged
- If they carry any attacking moves to get around Taunt, Cofagrigus can remove Prankster. It is bulky enough to survive a few Knock Offs, but should be last resort and also use that time to set up TR for an appropriate counterattack. Of course, Sableye can then also spread Mummy but it's just a worse Spiritomb once you remove Prankster.
Faster sableye and spiritomb variants.
Special attackers should be scared of swagger as well.
ikr?
Anyway, I'm really falling in love with CroEye. With Prankster + Recover, it has a unique position over traditional crobeasts like Crocune and, relevant to this meta, CroTomb. In that it doesn't need to waste a move slot on Sleep Talk and doesn't have to be asleep for two turns. Sure, base 65 SpA sucks but with enough boosts you can dismantle a lot of stuff before going down, especially since everything except opposing Sableye and Spiritomb are weak to Dark Pulse. Btw I run Dark Pulse > Shadow Ball because of all the Kasib Berries and i could get a lucky flinch on... who the heck knows, Spiritomb? But it's the same base power and gets STAB with those two tiny advantages. Here is the set:
DiamondEyes (Sableye) @ Roseli Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swagger
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dark Pulse
Swagger is the ace in the whole that gives Sableye an edge over CroTomb. There's such sweet satisfaction that comes from killing an Aegislash in two turns without taking a hit, all while setting up two Calm Minds and being ahead of the game. I run Roseli Berry because I already have Leftovers on CroTomb ... yes, I'm using two crobeasts, and they work fantastically with Scarf Chandelure in the wings to pick off opposing Gengar (after a broken sash) and Chandelure. The EVs work like this, because I am super petty: 12 speed is to creep on 4 speed Sableye while 240 HP gives an odd amount of HP in order to live 5 turns of Curse.
Mark my words, you guys... gaming the RNG with Minimize Chandelure and Swagger everything else WILL. GO. BADLY.
This isn't a "strategy" that hasn't occurred to the majority of good Japanese players, and they will either ape the sets with higher or max speed, or they'll start running Lum Berry Aegislash, or anything else that can OHKO your Swag user.
Plus, take it from someone who ran SwagPlay Klefki early in the meta: Swagger CAN and WILL backfire at the worst possible moment.
I really, really did not want a meta ruled by hax, but if that's the way it's going to be...
EDIT: Welp, tried to run the Minimize Chandy set, and what did I run into first thing? FEINT ATTACK SPIRITOMB!
Proceeded to Swagger said Spiritomb, which only hit itself once out of FIVE turns of confusion.
My point has been proven. I rest my case.
This isn't a "strategy" that hasn't occurred to the majority of good Japanese players, and they will either ape the sets with higher or max speed, or they'll start running Lum Berry Aegislash, or anything else that can OHKO your Swag user.
Plus, take it from someone who ran SwagPlay Klefki early in the meta: Swagger CAN and WILL backfire at the worst possible moment.
I really, really did not want a meta ruled by hax, but if that's the way it's going to be...
EDIT: Welp, tried to run the Minimize Chandy set, and what did I run into first thing? FEINT ATTACK SPIRITOMB!
Proceeded to Swagger said Spiritomb, which only hit itself once out of FIVE turns of confusion.
My point has been proven. I rest my case.
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Since there's still quite some days left till registration, I'm starting to feel like raising up new ghosts outside of my main 3 just for the sake of having multiple options available. Some people on the previous page mentioned Froslass and she has always been a favourite of mine (My favourite ghost, in fact.) but I never quite used her before. Twave sounds pretty interesting for stuff that doesn't really mind a Wisp and there don't seem to be as many levitators as I thought. (No double team/Swagger hax, though. There's no way I could feel proud of any wins gained with that outside of matches with the AI. No offense to people who do use it, though,)
What I'm starting to like about this format is yes, it's centralized - but every Pokemon has a couple of viable sets. Except for maybe Chandelure, there is no "bread and butter set". Also, you can't just spam "fast thing with Shadow Ball/Specs Chandelure" because of Destiny Bond gaming. Also, official monotype competitions are fucking cool, and I sincerely hope that Gamefreak continues with them.
Let's talk Gourgeist. There hasn't been much discussion on it. I know some people can say "just don't bring it to battle" but I dislike the idea of throwing away a team slot and only having 5 mons to choose from instead of 6.
Trick Scarf is imo the best Gourgeist set. Sableye has massive 4mss, you can't use it on Mega Banette, and Froslass is frail with less safe opportunities to Trick; Gourgeist has a real niche when it comes to viable users. Sadly you still lose to regular Gengar by four points.
Trick has great synergy with Frisk, as there is no guessing game on whether their Banette/Gengar is holding their Mega Stone or if they're choiced or whatever, easing prediction. What purpose does Trick have? Disrupting Sableye, removing AV and other nonsense, forcing switches, all kinds of fun things.
Other probably viable sets:
Disable: Doesn't have to be a set on its own, but definitely a move to be considered.
You can use it to Trick Room, although imo Cofagrigus or Spiritomb are better choices to set it up.
Bulky Worry Seed: ruins Prankster, Infiltrator, Flash Fire, etc. Hypnosis has atrocious accuracy and people seem to prefer Swagger/WoW for status so Insomnia isn't very useful. Worry Seed definitely has its niches.
Flame Charge: Yes, Serebii isn't lying, it really gets this. You can go for the poor man's fast Destiny Bond too if you want, but throwing out those faster Phantom Forces sounds appealing. The downside is that Chandelure eats this right up and like Scarf, loses to Gengar.
I think the largely special-based and hardhitting nature of the meta makes it difficult for Gourgeist to run a traditional defensive WoW set. I also don't think that kind of set makes use of its unique assets. Thoughts?
Let's talk Gourgeist. There hasn't been much discussion on it. I know some people can say "just don't bring it to battle" but I dislike the idea of throwing away a team slot and only having 5 mons to choose from instead of 6.
Trick Scarf is imo the best Gourgeist set. Sableye has massive 4mss, you can't use it on Mega Banette, and Froslass is frail with less safe opportunities to Trick; Gourgeist has a real niche when it comes to viable users. Sadly you still lose to regular Gengar by four points.
Trick has great synergy with Frisk, as there is no guessing game on whether their Banette/Gengar is holding their Mega Stone or if they're choiced or whatever, easing prediction. What purpose does Trick have? Disrupting Sableye, removing AV and other nonsense, forcing switches, all kinds of fun things.
Other probably viable sets:
Disable: Doesn't have to be a set on its own, but definitely a move to be considered.
You can use it to Trick Room, although imo Cofagrigus or Spiritomb are better choices to set it up.
Bulky Worry Seed: ruins Prankster, Infiltrator, Flash Fire, etc. Hypnosis has atrocious accuracy and people seem to prefer Swagger/WoW for status so Insomnia isn't very useful. Worry Seed definitely has its niches.
Flame Charge: Yes, Serebii isn't lying, it really gets this. You can go for the poor man's fast Destiny Bond too if you want, but throwing out those faster Phantom Forces sounds appealing. The downside is that Chandelure eats this right up and like Scarf, loses to Gengar.
I think the largely special-based and hardhitting nature of the meta makes it difficult for Gourgeist to run a traditional defensive WoW set. I also don't think that kind of set makes use of its unique assets. Thoughts?
I've been running trick room disable on my Gourgeist, and given it a kasib berry to help ease the pain of super-effective Ghost moves. It can then take Gengar's Shadow Ball or whatever, set up a trick room, and disable that attack. Then I just spam Phantom Force and Shadow Sneak. It's not nearly as good as some of the other Ghost-types, but I like the idea well enough, and it has worked for me. I agree completely on the idea that WoW Leech Seed sets are useless in this game. Flame Charge doesn't seem to be that good of an idea in my opinion simply because trick room is a thing, and the trick room not only lets Gourgeist outspeed pretty much every ghost, but it also supports Pokemon like Aegislash, Spiritomb, and Sabeleye who may come in after Gourgeist is knocked out. I absolutely love the trick scarf set, that actually scares me considering how it would ruin Sabeleye, CRoTomb, and even Aegislash to a certain extent.
Great Post! One nitpick: aegislash doesn't actually like Trick Room all that much. When it outspeeds things but doesn't KO, it tends to get smeared while in blade form due to the blade form's low defensive stats, so care should be taken when using aegislash on trick room team.
So I just found out I'm away during this comp so I don't think I'll be able to compete anymore, and if I do I'll only be able to sneak in a couple of games out of the 30... This is annoying because I've been theorymoning and playing on PS! a lot. But since I basically can't have a serious shot at this anymore I was probably just going to put together something fun/gimmicky real quick. Taking all suggestions lol
seriously though this sucks
Explosion Gourgeist, fuck everything. Throw in a Normal Gem too.