Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
so this season I've been trying to learn Zoo. Like really learn Zoo. What I've found out that Zoo requires a lot of thought process to the turns once it escapes past turn two. What I've gathered is that I was not aware of face vs. trading. There are times when you should just SMOrc face. Handlock sort of helped me with that (should that 9/9 go face? yes). But now it's a bunch of minions. Zoo feels like a little Handlock and I'm really loving the turn process put into it and how to win a matchup. Mr.E will probably call me out on some misplays because I still play a bit too greedy but my overall winrate with the deck is almost 70% at the moment.

The metagame actually has stabilized a bit before the expansion (oh surprise). There is a wide variety of decks being played at the moment (or maybe it's the start of season), and I've found myself having fun with the legend grind once again.



This is the zoo list I've been running. It's faster than other Zoo on ladder since it still runs Doomguard instead of Sea Giant (this also gives it a comeback element aside from Juggler and Implosion) and Doomguard is so fucking good against Druid it throws the matchup, according to my records, into the 80%.

Yeah, yeah, Bran Flame Imp EleGiggle
 
Yeah I really like zoo in the meta, really really good atm and it has really been helping me learn how to not be greedy/play around aoe, something that I always struggled with. And yeah I often struggle with face vs trade, like all I hear is how zoo is a control deck but sometimes i feel like the matchups are too grindy which makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Also I don't understand why zoo was such a hated deck around pre-naxx like obv I didn't play then but was it the really aggressive zoo that ran stuff like leper gnomes or something?

In other news I've been running ramp druid atm and it's a pretty solid deck imo, possibly 55:45 matchup vs secret paladin due to double bgh and obviously stuff like t3 belcher and dotc and stuff along those lines. Idk whether or not to run combo because at some points they totally clog the hand and this deck has quite a few dead draws already, and the fact that cenarius is more or less a valid substitution considering how it does sr's job most of the time even though 75% of the time I'll use the 2/2 treants option. I also don't know whether or not to cut a/both aspirant(s) considering the awful KT synergy and the fact that I always draw them late game BabyRage . And I sometimes wonder whether or not to cut KT but not only is it insane vs control, it isn't nearly as much of a win more card as people think imo, like if you are behind it's pretty bad but not completely trash, when you are even or ahead it's incredible especially with the fat taunts. Another question I often wonder is which 3 drop to use, I have been using druid of the flame for awhile since it trades so well vs aggro, though I started off with shades for a bit but then realized that it's way to slow and I don't have combo lol. Mounted Raptor isn't a bad option either, though you again aren't running combo lol.

Anyways, here is my list:
2x Innervate Self Explanatory
1x Raven Idol Great way to fish for wild growth/aoe or an on curve minion
2x Wild Growth Pretty shitty card thinking of cutting it xd
2x Wrath Helps control the board vs things like tempo mage early game obviously
2x Darnassus Aspirant Helps the consistency of the deck but trash in the lategame
2x Big Game Hunter Great vs secret paladin all the big minions
1x Druid of the Flame Great vs aggro
1x Mind Control Tech Terrific card vs aggro
2x Swipe Helps Secret Paladin matchup
1x Keeper of the grove I know this one might be a little controversial but sometimes I feel like the card isn't too good in this deck since you often want to play sen'jin over this on t4. I would probably add this over an aspirant
2x Sen'jin Shieldmasta Beefy taunt in a taunt deck lol
2x Druid of the Claw See sen'jin
2x Sludge Belcher See Sen'jin
1x Sylvanas It's sylvanas
2x Ancient of Lore Insane card in every non-aggro druid
2x Ancient of War While some might only like 1x, I really like having a second one should owl come in to ruin your day. Also see sen'jin
1x Dr. Boom It's Doctor Boom
1x Kel'Thuzad brings your taunts back to life and is game winning vs control
1x Cenarius Great card either as a fat taunt of sorts or as a finisher.


Unfortunately not as good as before with the nerf of patron obviously and the advent of more burn-oriented aggro decks (looking at you shaman) but it's ok imo

Edit: For whatever reason, I forgot mc tech lol
 
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TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I love Zoo, but the Doomguards are soooooo fucking like life or death to me. Especially with Brann because I feel like sometimes I want to hold onto brann to get a great board dominating play of turn 7 brann defender of argus, but if I need a turn 5 or 6 answer to something the doomguard is just there like "shoulda played the turn 4 brann abusive sergeant instead of greeding". It's a card that if it shows up early I basically have to be playing 3-4 turns ahead which is just killing my groove of brainless play man.
 

Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
Also I don't understand why zoo was such a hated deck around pre-naxx like obv I didn't play then but was it the really aggressive zoo that ran stuff like leper gnomes or something?
Pre-naxx a lot of the cards used in zoo were op. Things like Flame Imp (Dealt 2 damage instead of 3 upon casting) and Sun Shattered Cleric (was a 3/3 and not a 3/2) were strong enough to give zoo the edge it needed to win a lot of games. Blood Imp was a 1/1 with stealth that passively gave all your minions +1 health while it was alive. And Novice Engineer and Defender of Argus were nerfed stat-wise as well due to them just being that good as 2 and 4 drops respectively.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I love Zoo, but the Doomguards are soooooo fucking like life or death to me. Especially with Brann because I feel like sometimes I want to hold onto brann to get a great board dominating play of turn 7 brann defender of argus, but if I need a turn 5 or 6 answer to something the doomguard is just there like "shoulda played the turn 4 brann abusive sergeant instead of greeding". It's a card that if it shows up early I basically have to be playing 3-4 turns ahead which is just killing my groove of brainless play man.
I am pretty sure it's what killed my Zoo is brainless idea. In thinking about three or four turns ahead when I'm playing zoo
 
Since we are on the topic of zoo: Pre LoE it was the deck I knew how to use the best. I used to play the classic list from nax but just with implosion in it. I can say that has been/is one of the best/strongest decks in this game and I have no doubt that it will still be in standard. Its just so versatile. Destroy the early game with your strong minions, make easy trade ups with low health minions and buffs, then in the late game you draw two cards every turn and since you should've been chipping in a good amount of face damage you basically are looking for lethal(which is easy with PO and doomguard and other strong buff cards).

I remember one day on last day of ladder I hadn't played at all that month and climbed from rank 15 to rank 5 in a couple hours, with around a 90% winrate that day but again that was in pre LoE days. Nowadays the brann deck is still good for the current meta. With that being said the GvG list is also very good, I havent compared results of each list but I would say brann list is a bit better due to simply how good brann+argus and brann+abusive is. I've never used the demon zoo list so I have no opinion on it.
 

Nova

snitches get stitches
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just started playing playing mid February and got to rank 10 by the end of the month playing aggro Shaman. I've been watching way too much streams and reading meta shit. Been playing standard Secret Paladin and Midrange Druid this month and it's been a lot of fun.

Looks like most of you guys are Legend or at least rank 5. Was wondering how long it took you guys to first hit Legend since you first started playing or rank 5? My goal is to get rank 5 by the end of this month
 

GOAO

Banned deucer.
Just started playing playing mid February and got to rank 10 by the end of the month playing aggro Shaman. I've been watching way too much streams and reading meta shit. Been playing standard Secret Paladin and Midrange Druid this month and it's been a lot of fun.

Looks like most of you guys are Legend or at least rank 5. Was wondering how long it took you guys to first hit Legend since you first started playing or rank 5? My goal is to get rank 5 by the end of this month
I got rank 5 after 4 months playing, i guess you can do the same. I used midrange druid btw
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Just started playing playing mid February and got to rank 10 by the end of the month playing aggro Shaman. I've been watching way too much streams and reading meta shit. Been playing standard Secret Paladin and Midrange Druid this month and it's been a lot of fun.

Looks like most of you guys are Legend or at least rank 5. Was wondering how long it took you guys to first hit Legend since you first started playing or rank 5? My goal is to get rank 5 by the end of this month
I used to mostly just play arena and when I started to actually play constructed I would generally hang around rank 5 and got Legend I think in season 3 after release? Rank 5 is a reasonable goal if you just started, given how win-streaks even work out you don't even need a 50% winrate to get to rank 5, but once you hit 5 it becomes a really tedious grind depending on the deck you're playing. It took me ~180 games to get from five to legend using zoo, sometimes if I'm playing shit like Handlock or Freeze Mage I might not get legend till the end of the month just depending on what the meta of the day is.

Just remember when playing a game to use your time, even if there is an obvious play look at the cards in your hand at the other options and maybe one of those will be better in the long run aside from right now. This is especially true when playing Aggro Shaman.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
On that point: whats a good way to practice your reads? I love playing Control Priest but in certain matchups I feel only like 50% confident in my reads of what could happen.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
On that point: whats a good way to practice your reads? I love playing Control Priest but in certain matchups I feel only like 50% confident in my reads of what could happen.
I don't know if there is a good way to "practice" reads other than looking at what cards they kept at the mulligan and then figuring out what kind of deck it is. Druid that keeps two cards? Innervate, 4 Drop, Wild Growth, Roots are all good guesses then it snow balls from there. Sometimes it's easy to tell if they have a FoN or a Roar depending on how they flood board or how slow they take it.

I write down my card guesses on mulligan and see how accurate they are, periodically writing what I think is in my opponent's hand and seeing how accurate I am.
 

Nova

snitches get stitches
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just got Legend after starting this game last month. Thanks Malfurion. In the last few ranks, mainly just saw standard Control Warrior, Secret Paladin. Weirdest deck was some Duplicate Mage that dropped 4 Molten Giants on my ass in 2 turns
This is the deck I used the entire way (Boom is the last card, got cut off):
 
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Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
So judging by the "Deck Recipes" that Blizzard implemented I think it's safe to assume that these cards are getting nerfed pretty hard:
Ancient of Lore
Force of Nature


Logic being that no Druid deck in their lists have Lore in it, meaning that they don't feel comfortable telling people that they should craft Lore for a standard Druid list. They're comfortable enough saying Reno Warrior is a worthwhile deck that requires a hefty cost, so why not Lore. That also being noted that the only time any aspect of combo shows up in their list is for their flood Druid, which runs 2x Savage Roar.
 

phil

could do worse
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
You can probably add Ironbeak Owl to that, there's no Owl in the Handlock list even though there's a Spellbreaker.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
All your Golden Monkey has to do is give you Blingtron to break Death's Bite, Reno Jackson to counter Alexstrasza and Iron Juggernaut for a 6/5 Pyroblast and you, too, can beat Fatigue Warrior as a Priest!

Remember kids, Hearthstone is a game of skill.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
yeah, totally unfavorable when your opponent RNGs a combination of three exact cards out of a hundred-ish* possibilities each

lol this game just keeps getting more absurd, you need to be on IRC more. You've missed some real quality skillstoning tonight

edit: *92
 
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Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
I'm sure my good friend Gen. Empoleon would love to hear about how I made the grave error of logging back onto skillstone tonight:

Play Druid.
Four Patron Warrior players in past hour-ish.
All four play Turn 2 Armorsmith, Turn 3 weapon Dread Corsair, and Turn 5 Patron. Two of them Inner Rage + Death's Bite proc comboed, the third comboed off on Turn 7 instead when I cleared the first set of Patrons. Fourth didn't combo off only because he played double Corsair into on-curve Shredder and didn't have the need, or the room, to double proc his T5 Patron play.

Oh hey, another Druid opponent. Oh hey, T1 Innervate Shade into T2 Wild Growth. Neat.

Oh hey, a Paladin. Oh hey, double Juggler Muster. Oh hey, it kills my Shades because it's not like I have removal or ramp or anything better to do.

Somehow, I have still managed to move to Molten Giant. Should I actually try REALLY HARD to prove I can still hit Legend while I have a mighty four-day weekend for myself, the first days I've had off work since literally Feb 28? ;[ Still need to get back to Dragon Age...

looks like I'm just gonna stay up the entire day, anyway yo first 12-win arena in way too fucking long is this deck really that good? https://i.imgur.com/Oo9QRQX.png and both my losses to the same Rogue :[
 
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Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Triple post? Sure. Somebody post something, feeling awfully lonely ITT. :(

Fatigue Warrior, I of course am not netdecking a shitty list with fucking Acolyte and Shield Slam so easy win right?

GOLDEN MONKEY WITH 12 CARDS LEFT. Only three cards in his hand though.
Mine still has double Shield Slam, double Shieldmaiden, Alexstrasza plus I have 5/1 Gorehowl equipped. No problemo. Shield Slam, ready to mash this 30 HP guy's face in.
BLINGTRON DESTROYS GOREHOWL. HARRISON JONES DESTROYS THE TRUESILVER HE GIVES ME AND REFILLS HIS HAND.
... Eadric owns both my Shieldmaidens, King Krush trades with my Alex, drops Bolf Ramshield but I mean really at this point it's just salt in the wound.

When the RNG consistently goes this improbably well for all my opponents while I'm wondering what the fuck statistical normalcy is playing Druid ten straight games without figuring out how to play Turn 1-2 Wild Growth a single time, is it any wonder I'm no longer a "Legend caliber" player? I'm done with my quests, I already wasted 12+ hours Thu-Fri making some attempt to advance up the ladder and went nowhere so I'm no longer trying for that. Right now I think I'm only playing -- hell if I even know why at this point -- to get my Rank 5 back because I'm actually one star Rank 6 as I make this post.

I'm not tilting. For the most part I honestly seem to be playing quite well, of course I'm biased but I'm generally good about that. Maybe sometimes I concede earlier than I've absolutely 100% lost a game, but that's more an issue of time management. On the ladder, outside of a tournament setting, there's no point wasting an extra 10 minutes or more grinding out a game you have a sub-10% chance of still winning. The large majority of games, I am simply unable to draw cards in a useful order and my opponents practically stack their decks. Card game or not, Hearthstone has simply become too governed by the RNG and not enough by how well one actually plays. It's an exercise in frustration at this point.
 

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