alright help me make my gruul do something then
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Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
I saw this one stream where it was rogue deck on turn nine. Gruul+Conceal guarantees you a 9/9 minion the next turn for you to attack. Needless to say... smashed its way and since the opp had to concentrate all his forces the next turn the momentum completely went in the Rogue's favour.
It's also use in stall/control decks like priests where you can heal it up or combine it with another high cost legend to create the double threat.
It's also use in stall/control decks like priests where you can heal it up or combine it with another high cost legend to create the double threat.
Gruul is always going to struggle in this meta since the earliest you can play it is turn 8 and realistically it doesn't affect the state of the game immeadiately. With so much burst running around your opponent can easily just ignore it and likely end the game that turn with their 8 or 9 mana. If you're winning and have board control it can really help to close out a game, but when things are even or say there is an empty board, it just doesn't do enough. Shaman, Mage, Warlock, Warrior will all likely have some hard removal to get rid of it, while Druid can just throw up taunts or FoN Savage Roar you, Rogue can Sap or Leeroy. It seems too slow and clunky to work atm.
Maybe could try it in Ramp Druid? Getting it out on turn 4/5/6 could be pretty brutal. Still don't see it having more impact than say, Rag or Cenarius.
btw add me, Django#2770, been playing since December but only just realised this thread existed :)
Maybe could try it in Ramp Druid? Getting it out on turn 4/5/6 could be pretty brutal. Still don't see it having more impact than say, Rag or Cenarius.
btw add me, Django#2770, been playing since December but only just realised this thread existed :)
Havent had any time to ladder this season but it sounds like Shaman has taken off at the to end of the legend ladder. Shaman is so stagnent, most decks looking exactly the same minus 5 cards or something, so I was wondering if anyone knew what these top level players were playing; is it different than the norm?
Also who else thinks July 15th for Naxx :)) plus we finally get pricing on the 1st! #gettinhyped
Also who else thinks July 15th for Naxx :)) plus we finally get pricing on the 1st! #gettinhyped
http://hearthstoneplayers.com/nubas-legendary-midrange-shaman-deck/
This dude hit top 100 NA with Gnomish Inventors but everything else is just standard Shaman really, apart from the lack of a Mana Tide Totem. Most of the cards Shaman run are just too good not to include really, and the only difference in decks is the 4-5 tech slots which aren't that varied anyway. I've seen people run a more agressive version with Windfury and Stranglethorn Tiger, but I think the most successful ones are still the standard. I guess when you compare it to a few metagames ago Shaman is more about tempo (not running Pagle and Mana Tide anymore) and so it moved away from the Leeroy Windfury combo and uses Doomhammer / Al'Akir instead.
Also I just opened golden Onyxia, how to make good deck with what is in reality a very average card??
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naxx is coming around... I'm broke and I failed horribly at all the 3 arena runs I've done. I literally have no talent with impromptu deck building.
And here's hoping the naxx meta kills the mindless rogue decks.... and there's at least some time until the community finds the next moronic autopilot deck.
And here's hoping the naxx meta kills the mindless rogue decks.... and there's at least some time until the community finds the next moronic autopilot deck.
So I'm trying this idea in an attempt to break free of the aforementioned stereotypical shaman build. Basically revolves around getting super value from blademasters, earth eles, faceless and ancestral healing/spirit. Blademaster + AH is basically better than what priests do, albeit worse against TBK. That said, they can only throw one TBK at you, so if they do bust a Blademaster (or preferably Tazdingo) with him, that means Earth Eles don't have so much to worry about. Faceless is pretty key since copying pretty much any minion with ancestral spirit is amazing value, also it makes silencing much less effective if i can pull it off. I put TBK in simply as extra removal, comboed with ancestral healing its pretty much "play a yeti and remove anything you like for 2 mana". Turn 10 you can do things like Earth Ele + Faceless, or Blademaster + AH + AS + Faceless.
Cards I'm not sure about are Rockbiter, Unbound and Rag. Rockbiter is pretty much there as a pseudo lightning bolt, has its upsides and downsides to it. I might consider Forked Lightning over it? But idk. I don't like the card a lot but its nice vs aggro, but a the same time this deck is already pretty good vs aggro. Unbound is in there because its nice value as I churn out the overload, but I wonder if having a second Tazdingo would be better so I can more reliably bait TBK and other removal for the sake of the other big guys. And Rag is pretty much there because hes a good card and sticking ancestral whatever on him and facelessing him are good value thing to do- I'd probably replace with Cairne if I had him, but for the time being my only alternative is Ysera. On one hand she basically acts like draw (which the deck lacks), and she'd be very nice to ancestral/faceless, but on the other its much easier to overload 2 than 3, so that'll suck. I've thought about adding Earthen Rings to give another card to combo with Blademasters and also serve as emergency healing if need be, but I don't think I can justify those as another 3 drop against the plethora of really good 3 drops shaman already has to choose from.
Oh and Kobold is only in there because I don't have Thalnos yet. I should probably point out I'm not anything special, I hang around rank 10ish, so I guess I'm posting this in order to see what those in higher ranks think, what can be improved, etc
Edit: Brutal opener vs Miracle
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Well i've played AGAINST it so many times I know exactly when the Gadgetzaan is coming out and when the Si7 combo-spam will begin. Most of the time I'm helpless unless I'm running a deck prepped to counter it (works half the time)... So If I know the by-heart, the exact progression of a deck which I have never personally played, I'm pretty sure it's one dimensional and hence (by my subjective definition) mindless.
Miracle requires a lot of min maxing with your dagger and looking several turns ahead to what you'll optimally want to do.
The first min-max starts on turn two when you dagger up, you have to ask yourself if you want to hit face or not. You hit face if you don't have a turn 3 play so on turn 3 you can redagger, however if you DO have a play you still may want to attack. If your play is Deadly + coin SI:A or if you're just cycling a fan then generally you want to hit regardless.
Turn two is when Miracle actually starts planning how they win.
I'm not particularly sold on Farsight as a card, I can see where it would be cool but as a deck thinner it seems unreliable next to things like Thalnos and Drake, even if you're playing a high curve. Its not like Preparation, for example, where you get to select what card to cheapen. Maybe because I'm not overly experienced with CCGs but from what I understand, aren't you basically 2-for-1ing yourself?It looks like a less optimized version of my deck x)
Same kind of basis except Blademaster is just a bad card and I cycle through cards with Farsight and whatnot.
Farsight is gaining a small advantage for a later play, or it's digging for an answer you would play (example: Rag on enemies board, you don't have a Hex, you Farsight and get the Hex for free). However it comes in other ways as well, Having a 3 mana Fire Elemental after a heavy overload turn to clear board, or having a 0 mana Wolves to combo with your Unbound Elemental early on can swing games.
It's about tempo and knowing when is the most "optimal" time to play Farsight. I say "optimal" because of all the big and useful cards in the deck you can play and a reduced cost is important. Having a Rag, Sylvanas, and Earth Elemental means you might not want to Farsight unless you're looking for a card.
I wouldn't call it a 2-for-1 when in reality Farsight into a card is, at worst, a 1.5-1 or at best, 0-1.
EDIT:
though in regards to your deck you have no reason to not run two Unbound Elementals. Are you crazy? That's like Shaman's Innervate or a Warrior's Fiery Win Axe.
It's about tempo and knowing when is the most "optimal" time to play Farsight. I say "optimal" because of all the big and useful cards in the deck you can play and a reduced cost is important. Having a Rag, Sylvanas, and Earth Elemental means you might not want to Farsight unless you're looking for a card.
I wouldn't call it a 2-for-1 when in reality Farsight into a card is, at worst, a 1.5-1 or at best, 0-1.
EDIT:
though in regards to your deck you have no reason to not run two Unbound Elementals. Are you crazy? That's like Shaman's Innervate or a Warrior's Fiery Win Axe.
Joeyboy I'm excited about the pricing announcement for Naxx on the 1st. I doubt I have enough gold to complete all the wings, but it'd still be nice to know (I'm still F2P).
I don't think the pros are running anything different or revolutionary in their Shaman decks. For the most part it's personal preferences (some run Doomhammer, some don't, some run Yeti/Gnomish Inventor, others run Violet Teacher etc). I did see someone run Mana Wraith in HearthWars (I think it was Dart?) which was probably to slow down Miracle Rogue and any other decks that rely on a minion to burst you out of the game, but I'm not sold on the idea.
I don't think the pros are running anything different or revolutionary in their Shaman decks. For the most part it's personal preferences (some run Doomhammer, some don't, some run Yeti/Gnomish Inventor, others run Violet Teacher etc). I did see someone run Mana Wraith in HearthWars (I think it was Dart?) which was probably to slow down Miracle Rogue and any other decks that rely on a minion to burst you out of the game, but I'm not sold on the idea.
well, when naxx was announced, they said they would release areas in stages. so the first one will be released, and it is free. then they will release the rest over time, and I believe prices will increase with each stage.
I'm just hoping that it's a one-time fee type of thing. like if you lose, you can re-challenge it for free, and it doesn't take multiple playthroughs to unlock everything.
also, mana wraith is a bad response to rogue in general. they can backstab, deadly poison blade, fan or blade flurry with one hit, etc.
also, miracle rogue is a really good deck now that it runs more minions. it's a lot more consistent now than it was a few months ago when all the minions it ran were pagle, leeroy, SI:7, and gadgetzan.
I'm just hoping that it's a one-time fee type of thing. like if you lose, you can re-challenge it for free, and it doesn't take multiple playthroughs to unlock everything.
also, mana wraith is a bad response to rogue in general. they can backstab, deadly poison blade, fan or blade flurry with one hit, etc.
also, miracle rogue is a really good deck now that it runs more minions. it's a lot more consistent now than it was a few months ago when all the minions it ran were pagle, leeroy, SI:7, and gadgetzan.
It's better than it was, that's for sure. I still consider it a bad deck the same way I think the the burn Mage deck is bad. Because it's so unreliant on minions and what spells you have it's entirely dependent on the top deck and the cards you mulligan. Not saying it doesn't require skill but I would never choose a deck that is so luck-based to actually play. My deck roster contains Miracle and burn Mage, but they're rarely my go-to decks unless I'm facing a lot of a certain kind (a lot of Warrior I'll play some Miracle and a lot of Miracle I'll play burn). However I would't consider them just an overall solid deck.
I dont see how you can't consider miracle a solid deck when it has been so dominant throughout this season and last season. It's "luck based" in the sense that if you get Gadgetzan + Coin + Conceal turn 5 you've pretty much won, but the deck in it's current form doesnt require that to happen in order to win. I've seen a lot of Miracle Rogues win without ever even playing Gadgetzan, such is the power of the deck. Every deck in a game like Hearthstone depends on your mulligan and the cards you topdeck. If you're playing Shaman vs Zoo and you don't draw into your Lightning Storms at the right time then good luck.
I don't know if you're trolling or not but I'm glad others are finally chiming in on how good Miracle is. Also Forsen is concurrently #1 on NA and EU using only Miracle Rogue and its still the go to tournament deck. So you saying its a horrid deck can't be from you just thinking of it in a strictly ladder or strictly tournament scene.
You think Miracle Rogue is luck-based? Is that why its so consistently at the top of the competitive scene? Can't take you saying Miracle isn't "an overall solid deck" seriously. I don't know what more I can say in defense of Miracle that I haven't already said. Just about everyone agrees if you could pick one single deck as "the best" it would be miracle.
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Ahhh, I just got smashed by mill Druid.
