Pokémon Heatran

[ViZar]

Heatran

Base Stats: 91 HP / 90 Atk / 106 Def / 130 SpA / 106 SpD / 77 Spe
Abilities: Flash Fire | Flame Body (HA)

All Moves

Level Up Moves:
[00] Fire Spin
[00] Leer
[06] Metal Claw
[12] Ancient Power
[18] Fire Fang
[24] Scary Face
[30] Iron Head
[36] Crunch
[42] Lava Plume
[48] Metal Sound
[54] Earth Power
[60] Heat Wave
[66] Stone Edge
[72] Magma Storm

TMs:
[TM08] Hyper Beam
[TM09] Giga Impact
[TM11] Solar Beam
[TM13] Fire Spin
[TM15] Dig
[TM20] Self-Destruct
[TM21] Rest
[TM22] Rock Slide
[TM24] Snore
[TM25] Protect
[TM26] Scary Face
[TM31] Attract
[TM34] Sunny Day
[TM38] Will-O-Wisp
[TM39] Facade
[TM48] Rock Tomb
[TM57] Payback
[TM68] Fire Fang
[TM76] Round
[TM81] Bulldoze
[TM98] Stomping Tantrum

TRs:
[TR01] Body Slam
[TR02] Flamethrower
[TR10] Earthquake
[TR15] Fire Blast
[TR20] Substitute
[TR26] Endure
[TR27] Sleep Talk
[TR32] Crunch
[TR35] Uproar
[TR36] Heat Wave
[TR37] Taunt
[TR43] Overheat
[TR46] Iron Defense
[TR58] Dark Pulse
[TR62] Dragon Pulse
[TR67] Earth Power
[TR70] Flash Cannon
[TR74] Iron Head
[TR75] Stone Edge
[TR76] Stealth Rock
[TR79] Heavy Slam
[TR88] Heat Crash
[TR99] Body Press

Tutor Moves:
Burning Jealousy
Scorching Sands
Steel Roller

Transfer Only:
Roar
Toxic
Double Team
Torment
Flame Charge
Explosion
Swagger
Nature Power
Confide
Bug Bite
Incinerate
Rock Smash
Strength
Mud-slap
Headbutt
Eruption

Newly Obtainable Moves (if any)

Eruption – no longer nature-locked

Notable Moves

• Lava Plume
• Earth Power
• Magma Storm
• Protect
• Will-O-Wisp
• Fire Blast
• Flamethrower
• Taunt
• Dark Pulse
• Dragon Pulse
• Flash Cannon
• Stealth Rock
• Toxic
• Roar
• Torment
• Explosion
• Eruption
• Sunny Day
• Metal Sound
• Solar Beam

New Ability

Flame Body (newly available): 30% chance to burn a Pokémon that makes contact

Pros

1. Great Typing: Heatrans unique typing gives it an immunity to Poison, 4x resistences to Bug, Fairy, Ice, Grass and Steel and 2x resistences to Dragon, Flying, Normal and Psychic, while only having to fear Water, Fighting and Ground.
2. Great Support & Utility Movepool: Heatran and support its team by laying Stealth Rocks, toxicing or burning other mons and trapping walls like Chansey and Toxapex.
3. Amazing Stats: Heatran has really good stats. Its worst stat speed isn't really that bad. It's bulky and strong and it can make use of any set it runs.
4. Amazing Ability: Normally Heatran would be neutral to Fire, but thanks to Flash Fire it is immun to Fire-type attacks and upon getting by one, its Fire Moves are getting a 1,5x boost. This adds more to its already amazing defensive typing while making it potentially stronger.

Cons

1. Ground Weakness: As I said before, Heatran has only three weaknesses, but it's ground weakness is a huge one. There are really good ground types in OU and since they are either faster than Heatran or can tank a hit, they threaten to OHKO Heatran, assuming it doesn't run a Shuca Berry.
2. No reliable Recovery: Heatrans only recovery option, outside from Wish support, are Leftovers + Protect, but once those are knocked off it can't heal anymore. It is immune to sand, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and Toxic Spikes, but not to regular Spikes and it's neutral to Stealth Rock, so it can get worn down easily.

Potential Movesets

Specially Defensive
Heatran @ Leftovers / Shuca Berry / Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe or 252 HP / 176 SpD / 80 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Protect / Earth Power / Scorching Sands
- Stealth Rock / Taunt

Heatran checks/counters a huge amount of Pokémon with this set. Those mons are Volcarona, Tapu Lele (lacking Focus Blast), Magearna (lacking Focus Blast), Genesect, Articuno-G, Naganadel, Blacephalon, Celesteela, Ferrothorn (lacking Body Press), Hatterene. It supports its team with Stealth Rock and Status with Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and Lava Plume. It can also run taunt to prevent Recovery and Hazard Control.

Trapper & Stallbreaker
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon / Power Herb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe or 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature or Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power / Solar Beam / Flash Cannon / Body Press / Scorching Sands
- Toxic / Substitude
- Taunt / Protect / Metal Sound / Sunny Day

This is the same as the specially defensive set, but it focuses on removing walls like Chansey, Blissey and Toxapex by trapping them with Magma Storm, beating them with either Toxic or Earth Power and taunting to prevent Recovery. It still checks the mons I mentioned earlier, but Magma Storm isn't as consistent as Lava Plume for a non-trapping set, due to it's 75% accuracy. You can also run other options like Metal Sound to drop the Sp. Def. of the opponent, Solar Beam + Sunny Day against Water-types or Weather Setters or Body Press for Chansey and Blissey. You can run whatever your team needs. This set can also function as a stallbreaker thanks to its typing, stats and its ability.

Choiced Attacker
Heatran @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption / Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Flash Cannon / Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse / Flash Cannon / Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Stone Edge

Thanks to the nature mints, Heatran can run a different nature other than Quiet and run a offensive set with Eruption. You can run any move you want. Eruption is nuclear coming from Heatrans 130 base special attack stat. Earth Power hits the Poisons, Electrics, Fires and Rock of the tier, as well as other Heatran, Flash Cannon hits Rocks as well as the Fairies, Dark Pulse helps against the Psychics and Ghosts and Dragon Pulse is there for the Dragons. Flamethrower or Fire Blast are there, incase Heatran has low HP.

Torment
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Substitute
- Protect
- Torment

This set ist simple. Use Torment on a Ground-type that is switching in and then protect on the earthquake. Most of the Ground-types can't do anything to Heatran after Earthquake is blocked. Excadrill, Garchomp, Nidoking, Rhyperior and Zygarde have secondary stabs that Heatran doesn't care about. Landorus-T doesn't usually have anything either and Hippowdon can only use Whirlwind. Even with that, Zygarde can still use Glare, Landorus-I has Focus Blast and Swampert has Water moves, but it's still a fun set.

S/o to

• nameless90 for metioning Metal Sound and Sunny Day + Solar Beam on the trapping set,
• Skagouroux for mentioning Scorching Sands on the specially defensive set and
• escarlata for mentioning Stone Edge on the Scarf set
• Deck Knight for mentioning Scorching Sands + Substitute
• Sickist for mentioning the Stallbreaker set

 

[nameless90]

The Metal Sound set is still a thing, considering that helps you to go past Unaware users.
Also, there is the Sunny Day + Solar Beam set if you are evil enough, even though it suffers the lack of the Z-crystal.

Heatran will be a top-tier threat in OU because it has a good amount of useful sets and the stats to make them work.
One good thing of Heatran is the lack of reliable recovery that prevents it from being broken.

 

[ViZar]

The Metal Sound set is still a thing, considering that helps you to go past Unaware users.
Also, there is the Sunny Day + Solar Beam set if you are evil enough, even though it suffers the lack of the Z-crystal.

Heatran will be a top-tier threat in OU because it has a good amount of useful sets and the stats to make them work.

Your right, those sets are good, but i don't see them working in this meta. I'll still add them, because they could work in the future, thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Skagouroux]

For the specially defensive set, I'd run Scorching Sands over Earth Power. Sure, Earth Power deals more damage, in particular to other Heatrans, but the 30% chance burn of Scorching Sands has more utility imo. It increases the chance of Heatran to burn physical attackers, and force the opponent to be more careful if they switch their Heatran.

 

[escarlata]

On the Scarf set, definitely slash in Stone Edge for Bulky Volcarona. Earth Power is a 4HKO so Volcarona can literally continue to QD in the face of Heatran until it just brute forces through. Stone Edge has a decent chance to OHKO even with a negative nature.

 

[volx757]

For the specially defensive set, I'd run Scorching Sands over Earth Power. Sure, Earth Power deals more damage, in particular to other Heatrans, but the 30% chance burn of Scorching Sands has more utility imo. It increases the chance of Heatran to burn physical attackers, and force the opponent to be more careful if they switch their Heatran.

Idk about this. IMO the extra damage is pretty much always preferable to the chance to burn something (probly something that doesn't mind a burn much either). Who are your targets for earth power? Heatran and toxapex. The former has one of the most customizable EV spreads in the game, so you'll want to maximize damage output as you don't know what the calcs are and god forbid you fail to KO their tran only to get KO'd back, and the latter cares relatively little about burns, when all you want to do is remove it from play anyway.

Not to mention the guy already has lava plume as the STAB and slashed two status moves on it. Talk about overkill.

 

[Empress Mobile]

For the specially defensive set, I'd run Scorching Sands over Earth Power. Sure, Earth Power deals more damage, in particular to other Heatrans, but the 30% chance burn of Scorching Sands has more utility imo. It increases the chance of Heatran to burn physical attackers, and force the opponent to be more careful if they switch their Heatran.

The SpD drop and increased power can force Toxapex back out which I think is more important. Scorching Sands could be a decent choice for dissuading Tyranitar switch ins, but the primary target of Earth Power is grounded Fire types which are immune to burn anyway

 

[Deck Knight]

The SpD drop and increased power can force Toxapex back out which I think is more important. Scorching Sands could be a decent choice for dissuading Tyranitar switch ins, but the primary target of Earth Power is grounded Fire types which are immune to burn anyway

I can say with confidence that the burn is incredibly useful in conjunction with the Magma Storm trapping. I ran a set of Magma Storm/Substitute/Scorching Sands/Taunt and it absolutely mauls Toxapex and Slowking that switch in (provided you actually hit Magma Storm). Magma Storm trapping + burn is 18% passive damage, which is enormous and lets you focus on keeping Sub up. Scorching Sands is amazing role compression for a Taunt + Magma Storm set, giving you slightly weaker but still viable Ground coverage along with additional chip. If I were to make a concise set modification:

Taunt Trapper
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Magma Storm
- Scorching Sands
- Substitute

The role of Substitute with Leftovers here is that Toxapex can't break Heatran's Substitutes with either Scald or Knock Off, meaning Heatran can safely hide behind its Sub to continually reset trapping and/or Taunt. The combination of Burn + Magma Storm damage along with the delay and prediction easing of Substitute is extremely useful. Taunt shuts down recovery attempts, and properly timed can completely neutralize recovering or Teleport pivoting. Remember that if you get Magma Storm and burn going, Substitute isn't just a delay, it also racks up another 18% in damage even if it is broken immediately.

I lost this match in CAP, but you can see from Turn 8-12 the effect of the damage combo and timely Taunt use on Heatran vs Slowking. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8cap-1212654041

 

[Sickist]

Flame body shouldn't be mentioned because Flash Fire is infinitely better (and part of what makes Heatran so good). Also your Choice Scarf set should just be called Choiced. Also wanted to suggest this as a set:

Stallbreaker Heatran
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power

Its pretty similar to the "Taunt Trapper" set posted above, however this one is slightly different. This gives Heatran a little more oomph, as well as utilizing Toxic+Taunt to trap and wear down pokemon such as Blissey or Pyukumuku. Earth Power rounds off the coverage by being able to trap and beat non-earthquake variants of SpDef TTar.

 

[volx757]

I can say with confidence that the burn is incredibly useful in conjunction with the Magma Storm trapping. I ran a set of Magma Storm/Substitute/Scorching Sands/Taunt and it absolutely mauls Toxapex and Slowking that switch in (provided you actually hit Magma Storm). Magma Storm trapping + burn is 18% passive damage, which is enormous and lets you focus on keeping Sub up. Scorching Sands is amazing role compression for a Taunt + Magma Storm set, giving you slightly weaker but still viable Ground coverage along with additional chip. If I were to make a concise set modification:

Taunt Trapper
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Magma Storm
- Scorching Sands
- Substitute

The role of Substitute with Leftovers here is that Toxapex can't break Heatran's Substitutes with either Scald or Knock Off, meaning Heatran can safely hide behind its Sub to continually reset trapping and/or Taunt. The combination of Burn + Magma Storm damage along with the delay and prediction easing of Substitute is extremely useful. Taunt shuts down recovery attempts, and properly timed can completely neutralize recovering or Teleport pivoting. Remember that if you get Magma Storm and burn going, Substitute isn't just a delay, it also racks up another 18% in damage even if it is broken immediately.

I lost this match in CAP, but you can see from Turn 8-12 the effect of the damage combo and timely Taunt use on Heatran vs Slowking. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8cap-1212654041

I understand the idea, but I still don't buy it. You can do the same exact thing by running the traditional set with earth power and toxic. I feel like subbing is just wasting turns you could be doing the job of removing. It only takes 3 turns to remove a healthy pex with heatran anyway, why not just get your kill instead of losing health and trap turns on substitutes and 30% burn chances with a burn that only hits them once cause they die next turn anyway (if you get the burn).

In the replay, the traditional trapper set achieves exactly the same thing you did with scorching sands. And since trapper tran perfers toxic over substitute in order to be able to trap blissey, scorching sands just risks putting a burn out where you'd rather have a toxic.

I get that an occasional random burn is always nice, but it's not consistent or optimal.

 

[Icemann]

I get that an occasional random burn is always nice, but it's not consistent or optimal.

Thats like saying you'd rather run surf on your bulky waters so you don't accidentally burn something... I don't see much validity in your argument as bulky waters have run scald+toxic all the time since gen 5. Yes I understand its not quite the same, since scald is stab, but you can clearly see my point. I totally agree that not accidentally burning blissey is an upside. But if your single way to beat blissey is heatran, then your team has some issues.

EP and Scorching Sands will both be used, but I don't see how you can think scorching sands is not viable

 

[nameless90]

Scorching Sands (70 base power) vs Earth Power (90 base power) seems similar to the choice between Scald (80 base power) vs Surf (90 base power).
I think that some calcs should prove what is better:

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 292-348 (90.4 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 292-348 (90.4 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 376-444 (116.4 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

• The difference here is small, but Earth Power can OHKO opposite offensive Heatran that runs even some EVs in bulk without being reliant to SR to achieve the KO.

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

• Here the difference starts to be great because Earth Power outdamages Scorching Sands+burn damage and almost neuters Recover, so Toxapex can't reliably stall Heatran.

==> I think that Earth Power is better than Scorching Sands in most cases (including towards targets immune to burn anyway).
Other calcs:

Hide

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 204-242 (67.7 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 192-228 (63.3 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 248-294 (81.8 - 97%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 244-288 (67.9 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 312-368 (86.9 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 154-182 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 196-232 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 132-156 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 154-182 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 196-232 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[dracozolt]

I hate that this thing is back.

It hard walls too many pokemon like Volcarona and 1/2 of all fairies.

 

[ViZar]

I hate that this thing is back.

It hard walls too many pokemon like Volcarona and 1/2 of all fairies.

Yeah, I get your point but honestly I rather loose to Heatran than Volcarona or Fairies. Its very subjective, but I didn't enjoy running into Volcarona and Clefable and then loosing to them because I didn't run the one or two Pokémon that could check them. Countering Heatran isn't hard, because there are many good Water-, Fighting- and especially Ground-Types. Ground-Type are pretty much a necessity because of Regieleki.
Like I said, you are allowed to hate a Pokémon because it doesn't allow you one of your favorite mons, but if you want to play Volcarona, you'll need to support it and get around its weaknesses, because every strategie needs support.

 

[GBeast]

Thats like saying you'd rather run surf on your bulky waters so you don't accidentally burn something... I don't see much validity in your argument as bulky waters have run scald+toxic all the time since gen 5. Yes I understand its not quite the same, since scald is stab, but you can clearly see my point. I totally agree that not accidentally burning blissey is an upside. But if your single way to beat blissey is heatran, then your team has some issues.

EP and Scorching Sands will both be used, but I don't see how you can think scorching sands is not viable

the flaw in your argument is that bulky waters get STAB from scald, while heatran does not from scorching sands as you so noted.

the reason why scald is good on bulky waters is because there is only a slight drop in base power from surf while allowing them to dissuade physical attackers which would otherwise be able to possibly muscle past them(especially for mons like suicune and manaphy using CM) whereas heatran can already do this thanks to wisp and plume, so scorching sands simply does not fulfill the same niche on heatran that it does on bulky waters. as well, heatran isn't running ground coverage to burn things, but instead to murder things weak to ground.

Perhaps the biggest example of the difference in power is the standard toxapex is cleanly 2HKOed by earth power after stealth rock or one layer of spikes accounting for leftovers while scorching sands has no chance of 2HKOing, and only 10.5% chance to 2HKO with rocks down. I don't know about you, but I don't call a 30% chance to burn irrelevant burn targets worth a drop of 20 BP. Scald is also only a drop of 10 BP compared to surf. just food for thought.

 

[Sickist]

Scorching Sands (70 base power) vs Earth Power (90 base power) seems similar to the choice between Scald (80 base power) vs Surf (90 base power).
I think that some calcs should prove what is better:

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 292-348 (90.4 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 292-348 (90.4 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 376-444 (116.4 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

• The difference here is small, but Earth Power can OHKO opposite offensive Heatran that runs even some EVs in bulk without being reliant to SR to achieve the KO.

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 112-134 (36.8 - 44%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

• Here the difference starts to be great because Earth Power outdamages Scorching Sands+burn damage and almost neuters Recover, so Toxapex can't reliably stall Heatran.

==> I think that Earth Power is better than Scorching Sands in most cases (including towards targets immune to burn anyway).
Other calcs:

Hide

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 204-242 (67.7 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 192-228 (63.3 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 248-294 (81.8 - 97%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 244-288 (67.9 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nihilego: 312-368 (86.9 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 154-182 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 196-232 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Raikou: 132-156 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Heatran Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 154-182 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 196-232 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Adding on to this, (which is a very good post btw, gj on that!), think of it like last generation with Ash-Greninja running Surf vs Hydro Pump. While Surf's consistency was nice in some aspects, the lack of power before transformation was very noticeable. You really needed Hydro Pump to achieve these certain KO's, even though Surf might've been nicer for accuracy.

also ViZar mention Modest on stallbreaker cuz you don't run Calm on offensive variants.

 

[ViZar]

Adding on to this, (which is a very good post btw, gj on that!), think of it like last generation with Ash-Greninja running Surf vs Hydro Pump. While Surf's consistency was nice in some aspects, the lack of power before transformation was very noticeable. You really needed Hydro Pump to achieve these certain KO's, even though Surf might've been nicer for accuracy.

also ViZar mention Modest on stallbreaker cuz you don't run Calm on offensive variants.

my bad, thanks for mentioning