OU Heracross

Valmanway

Valmanway

My jimmies remain unrustled
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
heracross-mega.gif


Overview
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Mega Heracross is one of the deadliest wallbreakers available in OU, thanks to its massive base 185 Attack stat allowing it to plow through many defensive threats. Mega Heracross is also a threat to offensive teams, as its respectable bulk and five resistances usually allow it to live at least one hit and retaliate hard, forcing many switches. Not even Pokemon with Substitute are safe, as Skill Link turns normally underwhelming moves such as Pin Missile, Rock Blast, and Bullet Seed into potent weapons. Not all is perfect for Mega Heracross though, as it has weaknesses to several common offensive types; this combined with its mediocre base 75 Speed after Mega Evolving can leave it fairly easy to force out. Much like most physical attackers, Mega Heracross is vulnerable to all forms of status, especially burns, and its lack of recovery means that Mega Heracross, despite its decent bulk, can be worn down quickly.

Wallbreaker
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name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Pin Missile
move 3: Rock Blast
move 4: Swords Dance / Substitute
ability: Moxie / Guts
item: Heracronite
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
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Close Combat is Mega Heracross's most spammable STAB attack, as it has high power and decent coverage. Pin Missile is the strongest attack that Mega Heracross has to offer, not only breaking through Substitutes, but also threatening Slowbro and Mew. Rock Blast is the advised coverage move, as it can nail Flying- and Fire-types. The choice between Swords Dance and Substitute depends on whether you want to break through walls more easily or block status and punish predicted switches.

Set Details
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Full investment in Attack EVs maximize damage output, whilst 252 Speed EVs with a Jolly Nature allow Mega Heracross to outrun Mega Tyranitar, Breloom, and Bisharp, Adamant variants of Gyarados, Dragonite, and Diggersby, Jolly Mamoswine before Mega Evolving, and Speed tie with Smeargle. Moxie can give Heracross a boost in power before Mega Evolving, which is especially relevant when lacking Swords Dance. Alternatively, Guts can be useful in case Heracross gets burned before Mega Evolving so it isn't completely useless.

Usage Tips
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Mega Heracross should come in when the opponent attempts to heal their wall. After that, the wall will likely be forced to switch out, potentially giving it another free turn to land a powerful blow or set up with Swords Dance or Substitute. Because its item can't be removed and it resists the move, Mega Heracross makes for a great switch-in to Knock Off; this allows it to setup on Pokemon like Bisharp.

Team Options
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Mega Heracross enjoys having a cleric on the team because it's worn down fairly easily due to its vulnerability to status and lack of recovery. Sylveon or Clefable can help keep Mega Heracross healthy with Wish and Heal Bell; Sylveon has better overall bulk, while Clefable takes on stall teams more effectively. Paralysis support is very convenient, as Mega Heracross can easily KO frail sweepers after they have been crippled. Thundurus is a great candidate with Prankster Thunder Wave, and he also threatens both physical walls and sweepers. Mega Heracross in return helps break down special walls for Thundurus, creating solid synergy. For a more defensive paralysis spreader, Jirachi makes for a great partner, and it can also support the team with Wish and Healing Wish, so it isn't limited to a paralyzing role. Healing Wish Latias can fully heal Mega Heracross if it gets worn down, while also threatening faster foes and physical walls. Having an answer to Talonflame is important; Rotom-W is able to take a hit relatively easily and either 2HKO bulky variants or OHKO offensive variants with Hydro Pump. You can also predict a switch and provide a free switch for Mega Heracross with Volt Switch.

Swords Dance + Substitute
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name: Swords Dance + Substitute
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Rock Blast
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Substitute
ability: Moxie / Guts
item: Heracronite
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
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Close Combat is Mega Heracross's best STAB attack, boasting both high power and good coverage. Rock Blast is the obligatory secondary offensive move, as it has better coverage than Pin Missile, which you can afford to give up. Swords Dance raises the Attack of Mega Heracross to frightening levels and makes wallbreaking significantly easier. Substitute gives Mega Heracross protection from status moves and also is a good option when you predict the opponent will switch out.

Set Details
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Full investment in Attack and Speed with a Jolly nature maximize Mega Heracross's damage output and allow it to outrun Mega Tyranitar, Breloom, and Bisharp, Adamant variants of Gyarados, Dragonite, and Diggersby, Jolly Mamoswine before Mega Evolving, and Speed tie with Smeargle. Moxie can give Heracross a boost in power before Mega Evolving and can potentially save you a turn spent setting up with Swords Dance. Alternatively, Guts can be useful in case Heracross gets burned before Mega Evolving; just remember that Rock Blast won't be as reliable before Mega Evolving.

Usage Tips
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Don't set up a Substitute or Swords Dance without thinking about it first; Swords Dance is usually the better move to use when they attempt to heal off any damage taken, while Substitute is the better move to use when you predict either a status move or a switch. Knock Off stays at 65 BP when used on Mega Heracross, even before Mega Evolving, so Mega Heracross makes for a good Knock Off switch in.

Team Options
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Sylveon and Clefable can keep Mega Heracross healthy with Wish and Heal Bell. Thundurus is a great partner, thanks to Prankster Thunder Wave crippling faster foes. Latios and Latias also have nice synergy with Mega Heracross, thanks to their ability to lure in Ferrothorn and threatening various answers to Mega Heraross, including fast sweepers and physical walls. Landorus-T can keep Flying-types in check and use U-turn to provide Mega Heracross with a safe switch-in against Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Rotom-W. Bisharp can trap Latios and Latias with Pursuit or OHKO them with Sucker Punch and easily eliminate Clefable with Iron Head. Rotom-W is a great teammate that can threaten physical walls decently enough and can take on Talonflame reliably.

Other Options
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Knock Off can be used in the fourth moveslot to remove Eviolite and Leftovers from walls, but it is relatively weak after removing an item; additionally, it's incompatible with Rock Blast, which will leave Mega Heracross more open to Flying- and Fairy-types. Bullet Seed is an option worth considering, as it allows Mega Heracross to handle Azumarill, Rotom-W, Hippowdon, and Quagsire much more effectively; however, it has little use elsewhere. An Adamant nature can be used to better handle Clefable, Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Mandibuzz, but this should only be used if your team doesn't already have a way to deal with them. Assault Vest Heracross with a set of Close Combat / Megahorn / Stone Edge / Knock Off with Guts can function as a great check to Keldeo, Slowbro, and Will-O-Wisp users. However, the lack of power without Mega Evolving or a Guts boost isn't activated leaves a lot to be desired. Megahorn can be used over Pin Missile if you want to potentially abuse Guts more efficiently, but it has less accuracy, less PP, and would leave Rock Blast as the only move to break through Substitutes. Running a Flame Orb with Guts can allow Heracross to pull off a surprise wallbreaking set, but gets worn down very easily and requires more support than the other sets.

Checks & Counters
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**Azumarill**: Azumarill works as a good check, thanks to its bulk and typing letting it avoid an OHKO from any attack and being able to OHKO with Play Rough, but it must be wary of the rare Bullet Seed.

**Unaware Clefable**: If Mega Heracross isn't using an Adamant nature, Unaware Clefable can avoid a 2HKO from any attack and 2HKO with Moonblast.

**Offensive Flying-types**: Flying-types such as Talonflame, Staraptor, and Mega Pinsir are a real pain for Mega Heracross to face, as all of them are capable of outrunning and OHKOing Mega Heracross.

**Doublade**: Doublade avoids a 2HKO from all of Mega Heracross's moves, even the rare Earthquake, and can hurt it significantly with Gyro Ball, finish it off with Shadow Sneak, or cripple it with a Toxic.

**Will-O-Wisp**: After Mega Evolving, Mega Heracross is very vulnerable to burns. Pokemon such as Mew, Gengar, Mega Gardevoir, and Victini are capable of outrunning and burning it with Will-O-Wisp. However, Heracross does carry Guts often, so Will-O-Wisp should only be used after it Mega Evolves or after confirming that its ability isn't Guts, though the latter two may simply attack with the appropriate STAB attack to KO it.

**Acrobatics Gliscor**: Acrobatics Gliscor can switch into any attack thrown its way, outrun Mega Heracross with 200 Speed EVs and a neutral nature or 100 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature, and proceed to OHKO after ridding itself of its item.
 
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hi, before you get anywhere, i want to see a jolly slash. it affords you the ability to outspeed a lot of things, including most 100s unless they're running like 152 speed evs to outrun it (char x/mew, zapdos/celebi), jolly mamo/gyara/nite preevo, adamant versions of those post-evo, breloom, most gliscors, adamant diggersby, mega ttars, all offensive trans pre-evo and modest ones post-evo, modest gard/adamant cham before they evolve, and adamant drill outside of sand pre-evo. all some very relevant threats that jolly lets you outspeed, especially improving your matchup vs offensive teams. i'd go so far as to say it's the best nature option, but i'll leave that up to you and see what the others think.
 
I'm not on QC anymore, but I figured I should offer my 2 cents.

While the writing on the overview is good, I think it could stand to be more concise. I don't think there's any point to mentioning that it can't use items, since that information is implicit to everyone. Also, I don't think you're allowed to write in a conversational style, so this sentence "Though I'd be lying if I said Mega Heracross was the be all, end all wallbreaker I've made him out to be, as he has some very crucial flaws" is not permissible. The transition to Heracross's flaws should be more natural. Instead of "While Mega Heracross is power, it's plagued by etc" you should immediately talk about its flaws.
 
PK Gaming said:
I'm not on QC anymore, but I figured I should offer my 2 cents.

While the writing on the overview is good, I think it could stand to be more concise. I don't think there's any point to mentioning that it can't use items, since that information is implicit to everyone. Also, I don't think you're allowed to write in a conversational style, so this sentence "Though I'd be lying if I said Mega Heracross was the be all, end all wallbreaker I've made him out to be, as he has some very crucial flaws" is not permissible. The transition to Heracross's flaws should be more natural. Instead of "While Mega Heracross is power, it's plagued by etc" you should immediately talk about its flaws.
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Huh. I didn't know that. I'll fix this right away. Thanks for the advice!
 
I'm just wondering why the recommended Speed investment investment only brings it to 240 Speed. Usually things in this Speed tier just go to 244 to outpace Tyranitar. Sure, 1v1 Heracross (obviously) will win, but it isn't going to want to take a Stone Edge at -1 Defense, and 232 EVs when Adamant are what's necessary to reach this amount of Speed.

However, if Jolly becomes the main slash, then 216 EVs are ideal (they outpace JollyLoom).
 
boltsandbombers said:
Bullet seed definitely deserves mentions in moves IMO - it is great for hippowdown, rotom w, quagsire, etc. Against offensive teams hera doesnt really get many opportunities to set up an SD.
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I can mention Bullet Seed, as it indeed does handle Hippowdon and company nicely. However, Swords Dance is still the biggest draw to the wall breaker set, as it allows Mega Heracross to break through otherwise good counters, and since Mega Heracross is capable of forcing switches frequently enough, it isn't too uncommon to see a +2 Mega Heracross.

Aragorn the King said:
I'm just wondering why the recommended Speed investment investment only brings it to 240 Speed. Usually things in this Speed tier just go to 244 to outpace Tyranitar. Sure, 1v1 Heracross (obviously) will win, but it isn't going to want to take a Stone Edge at -1 Defense, and 232 EVs when Adamant are what's necessary to reach this amount of Speed.

However, if Jolly becomes the main slash, then 216 EVs are ideal (they outpace JollyLoom).
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The Speed EVs are for outrunning Adamant Bisharp, though the EV spread already outruns regular Tyranitar.
 
Valmanway said:
The Speed EVs are for outrunning Adamant Bisharp, though the EV spread already outruns regular Tyranitar.
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On the mega evo turn, Tyranitar has 243 Speed, which isn't outspeed by Heracross' 240 Speed. I know what 216 EVs are for, I just thought 232 EVs were more practical, since 16 Speed EVs are more useful than 16 HP EVs. :)
 
By any chance is Bulldoze viable at all, at least for OO? Now that Heracross doesn't need EQ, obviously now it has a free slot and maybe Bulldoze could be used there. You can use it after you force a switch and the Pokemon that comes will be at -1 speed and you'll likely be able to outspeed and kill it unless that Pokemon is Scarfed. It work like a Substitute that doesn't take away your health and does damage; you won't always have to predict what move to use on a forced switch because you can always use Bulldoze and then you can outspeed and choose a move that will kill the Pokemon in front of you. On the downside compared to Substitute it obviously doesn't protect you from status, and the enemy can switch out to remove the Speed drop. Although they can predict you to go for the move to hit the Pokemon in front of them, that point goes both ways and the fact that Bulldoze does damage combined with possibility of hazards being on the field and the fact that teams don't often have multiple ways to deal with Mega Heracross makes that almost a non-issue, in my opinion. Not to mention Mega Heracross appreciates not losing health from Substitutes, and Bulldoze doesn't take away health.

EDIT: nvm MHera gets Rock Tomb which it better than Bulldoze since nothing's immune to it. It's likely going to miss less often than if the enemy would switch in a flying type into bulldoze.
 
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Backing up PK Gaming on the overview.

The reasoning why is pretty simple, Valmanway has been writing for The Smog for a while so he's obviously used to the more informal tone. In C&C, we attempt to be as objective as possible and provide information for the reader, with less of a focus on prose. The last statement of the overview seems totally out of place. Just talk about the Pokemon, what it does, the overview should mention not only its objective qualities, but its role in the metagame (how it takes on Stall teams, what Pokemon on stall does it cover and what does it need to beat a stall team). It struggles though with offense, so that can be mentioned.

Good luck :toast:
 
jolly first, the speed is far more relevant espec for the offensive matchup imo. outspeeding sashers, 80s, slower 100s, and more pre-mega is far more important than the menial power boost.

slash sub with sd. it's a nice buffer to faster mons and status, and eases prediction greatly. speaking from experience, hera behind a sub is a major pain to offense. a hera behind a sub usually means at least one kill, if not more.
 
For curiosity's sake, why is Moxie the ability of choice over Guts? Rarely is there ever an instance where you wouldn't mega evolve right away to get the offensive and defensive buffs, and even if you manage to get a kill before you Mega evolve, the likely scenario is that you will be forced out by an incoming Talonflame or something along those lines and not be able to take advantage of the Moxie boost anyway. With Guts however, you basically allow yourself to still be a threat if you managed to accidentally get burned before you Mega evolve. For example, if you try to switch into a Scald and get burned as regular Heracross, you can choose not to Mega because STAB Guts boosted Close Combats off of a Pokemon with 125 base Attack still hurt even without an item. I realize that this is a situational nitpick, but it really does seem like the better choice to me.
 
TheTraininator said:
For curiosity's sake, why is Moxie the ability of choice over Guts? Rarely is there ever an instance where you wouldn't mega evolve right away to get the offensive and defensive buffs, and even if you manage to get a kill before you Mega evolve, the likely scenario is that you will be forced out by an incoming Talonflame or something along those lines and not be able to take advantage of the Moxie boost anyway. With Guts however, you basically allow yourself to still be a threat if you managed to accidentally get burned before you Mega evolve. For example, if you try to switch into a Scald and get burned as regular Heracross, you can choose not to Mega because STAB Guts boosted Close Combats off of a Pokemon with 125 base Attack still hurt even without an item. I realize that this is a situational nitpick, but it really does seem like the better choice to me.
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Moxie is chosen over Guts because Guts only applies to regular Heracross, while Moxie can have a bit of a lasting effect, even after Mega Evolving. Guts only raises your Attack before Mega Evolving, and staying as regular Heracross means you can't abuse Pin Missile and Rock Blast properly. With Moxie, you can potentially power up Heracross before Mega Evolving without having to kill offensive momentum by using Swords Dance after Mega Evolving. I guess I can make a slash for Guts, but just remember that the ability of choice, more often than not, really doesn't matter, since you want Heracross for his Mega Evolution, not as an emergency status absorber.
 
Valmanway said:
Moxie is chosen over Guts because Guts only applies to regular Heracross, while Moxie can have a bit of a lasting effect, even after Mega Evolving. Guts only raises your Attack before Mega Evolving, and staying as regular Heracross means you can't abuse Pin Missile and Rock Blast properly. With Moxie, you can potentially power up Heracross before Mega Evolving without having to kill offensive momentum by using Swords Dance after Mega Evolving. I guess I can make a slash for Guts, but just remember that the ability of choice, more often than not, really doesn't matter, since you want Heracross for his Mega Evolution, not as an emergency status absorber.
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Haha, yeah, it was a nitpick more than anything. I also wasn't intending to imply you should use Hera to absorb status, I meant it more as a "oh no, that Scald accidentally burned me, good thing I haven't mega'd yet so I'm not COMPLETELY useless" kind of thing.
 
Been using M-Hera a lot so going to post some thoughts so you can take or leave w/e. Not really QC or anything but Guts does have its merits when Hera is paired with stuff like Healing Wish Latias or cleric support. It allows you to the luxury of utilizing Guts in tandem with Close Combat before mega evolving, which is nice cause people will just assume you're going to mega right away and go for the burn or status, then get hit with a wicked strong close combat from the start. Just a thought but this is very minor and from using it I agree doesn't even deserve a slash. Maybe an OO at the very best.

As for team options Latias, Heatran, Thundurus-I, Bisharp, Clefable, Landorus (Both), Raikou, Azumarill, Rotom-W are a handful of useful partners. Some of the voltturners/pivots in general are some of the best ones as it allows to gain some momentum in switching to M-Hera. In most cases that momentum is all M-Hera needs to put a huge hole in the team or just flat out win the match for you. In terms of more stall stuff, Alomomola and Chansey can deserve a mention on stall teams that are running a dedicated wallbreaker, the wallbreaker being M-Hera ofc. Cleric support is the great for the Swords Dance set, even more for the Substitute set. I would mention that M-Hera shines on Sticky Web teams as well, so Shuckle is a solid partner as well. It's kind of stupid how easy it is for something to lose to M-Hera if they're not a flying type or levitating mon when they lose speed due to Sticky Web. A small mention as a wallbreaker for Rain teams could work as well. A lot of rain teams are resorting to things such as Raikou and Torn-T, both of which can gain momentum with volt switch and u-turn respectively while Swfit Swim Omastar handles a lot of things M-Hera doesn't like dealing with, such as birdspam.

As far as usage goes SD Hera is generally better mid to late game to clean up, unless it's stall which then you're probably cleaning up early lol. Anyways the Sub set can be used at any point in the game and I've had a lot of success with it using it early as many of the common leads in OU are forced to switch to something else, which in most cases gives you a free Sub.

That's basically it I think everything else has been mentioned or at least will be.
 
Seems like it would be way easier to just spam Close Combat instead of forcing yourself to Sub up every time you want to successfully use Focus Punch imo.

Would it be possible for Knock Off to get a mention somewhere, perhaps as a 4th move in the OO section? M-Hera has issues against mind games when it comes to some variants of Offense and I think it's wicked useful in general. Helps knock off the Leftovers and eviolites off stall teams, eases prediction against offense if you're force into a situation where you could potentially use the wrong move. Besides the fact that Doublade is starting to become one of the best counters to your average M-Hera now a days, I just thought it would be a solid choice for that among the other things I've mentioned.
 
Josh Morales said:
Now that Mega Hera doesn't need 4 coverage moves, would SubPunch be viable enough for its own set niw besides just OO?
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Probably not, since the payoff isn't really that much greater due to Focus Punch only being only 25% stronger than Close Combat. Factor that in with Focus Punch requiring you to be behind a sub to be reliable vs. Close Combat being usable anytime, and Focus Punch just doesn't seem like it's worth the extra 25% damage output. If people really want a mention, I can add it to OO, but that's as far as I expect it to be allowed to go.

AM145 said:
Seems like it would be way easier to just spam Close Combat instead of forcing yourself to Sub up every time you want to successfully use Focus Punch imo.

Would it be possible for Knock Off to get a mention somewhere, perhaps as a 4th move in the OO section? M-Hera has issues against mind games when it comes to some variants of Offense and I think it's wicked useful in general. Helps knock off the Leftovers and eviolites off stall teams, eases prediction against offense if you're force into a situation where you could potentially use the wrong move. Besides the fact that Doublade is starting to become one of the best counters to your average M-Hera now a days, I just thought it would be a solid choice for that among the other things I've mentioned.
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Yes, I can definitely mention Knock Off in the OO section.
 
mmm so after testing up the subsd set dice brought up i'd like it added to the analysis. btw set is sub - sd - rock blast - cc. you barely miss anything from losing pin missile for coverage, while the payoff is huge. you get sub to fuck offense and sd to fuck stall, plus subsd sets up on all kinds of things like bulky waters, gliscor, landt, and is generally useful for avoiding status. p useful in general and definitely worth including whether as another set or just slashing substitute with rock blast as well as sd.
 
Jukain said:
mmm so after testing up the subsd set dice brought up i'd like it added to the analysis. btw set is sub - sd - rock blast - cc. you barely miss anything from losing pin missile for coverage, while the payoff is huge. you get sub to fuck offense and sd to fuck stall, plus subsd sets up on all kinds of things like bulky waters, gliscor, landt, and is generally useful for avoiding status. p useful in general and definitely worth including whether as another set or just slashing substitute with rock blast as well as sd.
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Added into the first set.
 
Jukain said:
mmm so after testing up the subsd set dice brought up i'd like it added to the analysis. btw set is sub - sd - rock blast - cc. you barely miss anything from losing pin missile for coverage, while the payoff is huge. you get sub to fuck offense and sd to fuck stall, plus subsd sets up on all kinds of things like bulky waters, gliscor, landt, and is generally useful for avoiding status. p useful in general and definitely worth including whether as another set or just slashing substitute with rock blast as well as sd.
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Yeah not to mention Pin Missle isn't really that needed for Mew since it 4HKOs MHera's sub with Knock Off so you can set up a sub on a WoW and then SD when the Mew switches out.
 
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