KM
slayification
This is a little late in the process, but I had to burst the bubble eventually. Unless I'm being completely retarded about something *which granted is very possible I tend to do that*, isn't EndureSalac Heracross outclassed by EndureSalac Heracross? When Heracross gets its first kill, Moxie essentially becomes a Liechi berry. Granted, the Unburden boost is higher than the salac boost, but upon further inspection, this is almost irrelevant.
Things that outspeed +1 Heracross that are "common" that do not outspeed Unburden Hitmonlee.
- Choice Scarf Victini - Seems like a solid and very common counter, but most of the time people don't think too hard. If Heracross isn't knocked down to 1HP, Victini is practically forced to go for V-Create, which will therefore lower its speed, making it slower. If Heracross is knocked down to 1HP, people will either be ridiculously stupid and V-Create (50% of the time) or be somewhat less stupid and U-turn (40% of the time). There's a slim chance that people will Bolt Strike, but most of the time they don't realize that Endure has more than one use.
- Choice Scarf Mienshao - Admittedly one of the only counters that doesn't counter Hitmonlee, but still, people are apt to go for the U-turn. Also, they could miss HJK. (I know, lame excuses, but I'm just trying to get the idea across that people generally don't know how to react when faced with an Endure poke, so they often misplay)
- Choice Scarf Flygon - Same as Mienshao with the added bonus of being able to go for the double Endure if they try and Outrage for the slim chance of hitting the Endure, them getting the two-turn Outrage, and then hitting themselves in confusion. *grasps at straws*
- Choice Scarf Krookodile - Is forced to be Jolly or will not outspeed, and I find that a majority are Adamant. That said, can't really do much to it.
At this point, you're probably wondering how this proves in any way that Heracross is better. The true reason, however, is that Heracross is perfectly viable and perfectly usable outside of his Endure set, and this means a couple of things. For starters, it can easily fire off a CC/Stone Edge/Megahorn whatever coverage move you want before you start enduring. More importantly, it has massively better bulk compared to hitmontop - sporting a decent 80/75/95 instead of a paltry 50/53/110.
The most important reason that makes EndureSalac heracross massively outclass Hitmonlee is the element of surprise. As soon as you reach even a semi-experienced player, the Reversal salac berry Hitmonlee is probably one of the first things that will come to their mind if they see it on team preview (especially so if this analysis goes up ;)) However, Heracross has massive advantage in that it can easily bluff the choice scarf, and more importantly still retains its element of surprise even after the bluff has been shown.
Example - Heracross brought out against a Specs Zapdos. Claydol switches in on the predicted SE, takes SR damage and minimal damage from the SE, gets OHKOd by a Megahorn. However, the opponent still doesn't know what the set is, and you still have a healthy Heracross with a +1 boost. Opponent switches in, say, Specs Zapdos, thinking that you're some weird Lefties/E-Belt set. You endure, get knocked down to your Salac, and kill the Zapdos with a +1 SE. Now, you can kill the rest of his team with a +2/+1 Heracross providing that your opponent does not have one of the counters on the list above ^ (Or something that would be a counter to Hitmonlee as well, like fucking, idk, Rain Dance Focus Sash Kingdra).
I'm not saying that Hitmonlee isn't good, or that it doesn't deserve a place in the analysis or that this analysis is bad in any way. The only thing I'm trying to dispel is the rumor that Hitmonlee fills the niche role of being the best Endure Reversal abuser in the tier and that there are no better options. Just to point it out :P
~Pleasure Kitten/Kitten Milk
Things that outspeed +1 Heracross that are "common" that do not outspeed Unburden Hitmonlee.
- Choice Scarf Victini - Seems like a solid and very common counter, but most of the time people don't think too hard. If Heracross isn't knocked down to 1HP, Victini is practically forced to go for V-Create, which will therefore lower its speed, making it slower. If Heracross is knocked down to 1HP, people will either be ridiculously stupid and V-Create (50% of the time) or be somewhat less stupid and U-turn (40% of the time). There's a slim chance that people will Bolt Strike, but most of the time they don't realize that Endure has more than one use.
- Choice Scarf Mienshao - Admittedly one of the only counters that doesn't counter Hitmonlee, but still, people are apt to go for the U-turn. Also, they could miss HJK. (I know, lame excuses, but I'm just trying to get the idea across that people generally don't know how to react when faced with an Endure poke, so they often misplay)
- Choice Scarf Flygon - Same as Mienshao with the added bonus of being able to go for the double Endure if they try and Outrage for the slim chance of hitting the Endure, them getting the two-turn Outrage, and then hitting themselves in confusion. *grasps at straws*
- Choice Scarf Krookodile - Is forced to be Jolly or will not outspeed, and I find that a majority are Adamant. That said, can't really do much to it.
At this point, you're probably wondering how this proves in any way that Heracross is better. The true reason, however, is that Heracross is perfectly viable and perfectly usable outside of his Endure set, and this means a couple of things. For starters, it can easily fire off a CC/Stone Edge/Megahorn whatever coverage move you want before you start enduring. More importantly, it has massively better bulk compared to hitmontop - sporting a decent 80/75/95 instead of a paltry 50/53/110.
The most important reason that makes EndureSalac heracross massively outclass Hitmonlee is the element of surprise. As soon as you reach even a semi-experienced player, the Reversal salac berry Hitmonlee is probably one of the first things that will come to their mind if they see it on team preview (especially so if this analysis goes up ;)) However, Heracross has massive advantage in that it can easily bluff the choice scarf, and more importantly still retains its element of surprise even after the bluff has been shown.
Example - Heracross brought out against a Specs Zapdos. Claydol switches in on the predicted SE, takes SR damage and minimal damage from the SE, gets OHKOd by a Megahorn. However, the opponent still doesn't know what the set is, and you still have a healthy Heracross with a +1 boost. Opponent switches in, say, Specs Zapdos, thinking that you're some weird Lefties/E-Belt set. You endure, get knocked down to your Salac, and kill the Zapdos with a +1 SE. Now, you can kill the rest of his team with a +2/+1 Heracross providing that your opponent does not have one of the counters on the list above ^ (Or something that would be a counter to Hitmonlee as well, like fucking, idk, Rain Dance Focus Sash Kingdra).
I'm not saying that Hitmonlee isn't good, or that it doesn't deserve a place in the analysis or that this analysis is bad in any way. The only thing I'm trying to dispel is the rumor that Hitmonlee fills the niche role of being the best Endure Reversal abuser in the tier and that there are no better options. Just to point it out :P
~Pleasure Kitten/Kitten Milk