How can I improve this hail team?

[Grec]

Something about this team just feels...off

I started out with Abomasnow, obviously. I started to think of something that could make use of Hail, and Kyurem and his Blizzards immediately came to mind. I looked at Kyurem, and I saw a weakness to stealth rock, then I looked at hail and saw how much Entry Hazards would help. So I chose Forretress for the job. I then started to choose a SpinBlocker to keep my entry hazards on the field, so I chose Froslass for the job. I looked at the Mon's on my team, and I saw a gigantic fire weakness. So I added Suicune who can Phaze, Wall Special Moves, and easily remove threats such as Heatran. For my last spot, I started to think of a Pokemon that could be used as a late game sweeper. After a little thought, I chose Conkel for the Advantegous Typing.

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Ice Shard
- Protect


Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock


Conkeldurr (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 HP / 120 Atk / 192 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
- Payback
- Drain Punch


Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 200 HP / 56 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Disable


Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 236 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

 

[blobzzz]

I love hail and 90% of my teams are hail based even in ubers so ill give a small rate.

Ok i have lots of expeirience with hail and quikly looking at your team i noticed a Lack of ice moves or blizzard abuse.
This team will have problems with dragonite.
It already outruns kyurem and a dragon dance allows it to sweep your team.
Ice shard on abomasnow doesnt do to much to it thanks to multiscale and thats about it for your team.
Another problem would be scizors and ferrothorns, as well as opposing forretress as you have a lack of fire moves and conkelduur cant be in all the time.
So i suggest bringing in a sweeper with access to fire moves.

As for the team

Abomasnow- Ive never liked a sub seed set but i will not hate on it, i have had lots of sucess with a swords dance set.
Ice shard, Wood hammer and earthquake or you could also run a scarf set which also is great with similar moves just ice punch or blizzard instead of swords dance.

Forretress is fine.

Conkeldurr- Also good but maybe try iron fist as you are not running flame orb as well as people would predict guts therefor wont try and cripple.

Frosslass- try a specail sweeping set this set provides terrible coverage and isnt the best team support frosslass is very frail.
Add blizzard and thunderbolt.

Suicune- Ive never used it on any team so im not an expert but im not sure its that reliable with the ever so common rotom wash and other pokemon easyly countering it in ou.

Kyurem- add hp fire for substitute and consider a choice scarf or specs set.



Some pokemon to consider-

Hariyama
Great hp and atk allowing it to tank for a few turns as well as being able to counter the teams biggest threats as well as conkelduur does with close combat hitting everything very hard including tyranitatr and heatran.
Access to fire punch, priority bullet punch, knock off for support and obviously close combat or brick break.
The best thing is it has thick fat allowing it to take several flamethrowers for a heatran giving the team better synergy.

Terrakion
Do i need to explain covers common weakness and hits like a truck.

Zapdos
Heat wave, thunderbolt, hp ice and u turn doing high damage with life orb as well as giving great coverage.

 

[Grec]

Thanks for the tips

I'll definitely change my Abomasnow set into a mixed attacker with Wood Hammer/Blizzard/Protect/Leech Seed (an excellent set btw, although many people have different opinions on what to use with Abomasnow)

Suicune has done his job right so far

I chose this Froslass SubDisable set because I've heard great things about it, and I got the set (along with the Kyurem set) from this guy:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464308

Kyurem: I'm never doing that, like ever. The Sub/Lefties is an amazing Kyurem set, he already has the power to use those moves, he doesn't need the specs, I'd rather use the extra Coverage and Bulk.

 

[CottonPuff]

This team will have problems with dragonite.
It already outruns kyurem and a dragon dance allows it to sweep your team.

This is false. Dragonite does not outspeed Kyurem naturally. Also, Iron fist isn't obtainable yet, and even if it was, Guts would be prefered. The ability to absorb status nonchalantly while simultaneously threatening the opponent with an attack stat of 936 (factoring in a guts and bulk up boost) is way to good to pass up.

 

[Saitsuofleaves]

Yeah, the only way DNite is outspeeding you is with a Scarf, or he caught you off guard and got a DD up.


Honestly, from a first glance, your team looks solid enough.

What's been giving your problem in matches?

 

[Smilodon]

Nice team, I like very much hail.
But as I often notice with those teams, your defensive balance is not really good, due to the horrible ice typing defensively. Your team is not hyper offensive, so you need to be able to take powerful hits without losing a pokemon each time.

You especially has 3 weaknesses to fire, and only one resistance. I can imagine you have hard time against sun teams, especially because your only resistance to fire is weak to grass, and grass/fire is a common coverage for sun sweepers. Same problem for rock attacks, if Conkeldur is not healthy. And the last one is Flying, two weaknesses and no resistance. Not a common attacking typing, but no way to deal with Tornadus, except trying to revenge kill with Abomasnow.

Another problem is that Foretress has too many tasks. He needs to spray 6 layers of hazard and to spin, and don't have any way to recover life (as hail negates leftovers).

So I would suggest a specially defensive Heatran instead of Suicune, who could use SR, phaze and take powerful special hits. And a Jellicent instead of Froslass, a better defensive typing and stats, and a reliable way to recover health. Here would be the sets :

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 100 SDef / 156 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power


He would bring many advantages to your team : one of the most reliable user of SR, a solid phazer, a nice offensive coverage (you might want to use HP ice instead of roar to improve it, but you already have more powerful ice attack on this team). And a much better balance : Fire immunity, double res to steal, bug, grass, resistance to flying...


Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Taunt
- Toxic/will-o-wisp/shadow ball


The best anti spinner in OU, a nice defensive typing, and also really annoying for stall teams, thanks to taunt + recover. For the last slot, I like shadow ball to deal with Starmie (the only spinner that can really threaten Jellicent), and can surprise Latios or Reuniculus. But statuses are always interesting for a wall breaker.


And you could use Voltswitch > SR for Foretress (if you chose Heatran), always nice to gain momentum.

 

[Grec]

Nice team, I like very much hail.
But as I often notice with those teams, your defensive balance is not really good, due to the horrible ice typing defensively. Your team is not hyper offensive, so you need to be able to take powerful hits without losing a pokemon each time.

You especially has 3 weaknesses to fire, and only one resistance. I can imagine you have hard time against sun teams, especially because your only resistance to fire is weak to grass, and grass/fire is a common coverage for sun sweepers. Same problem for rock attacks, if Conkeldur is not healthy. And the last one is Flying, two weaknesses and no resistance. Not a common attacking typing, but no way to deal with Tornadus, except trying to revenge kill with Abomasnow.

Another problem is that Foretress has too many tasks. He needs to spray 6 layers of hazard and to spin, and don't have any way to recover life (as hail negates leftovers).

So I would suggest a specially defensive Heatran instead of Suicune, who could use SR, phaze and take powerful special hits. And a Jellicent instead of Froslass, a better defensive typing and stats, and a reliable way to recover health. Here would be the sets :

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 100 SDef / 156 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power


He would bring many advantages to your team : one of the most reliable user of SR, a solid phazer, a nice offensive coverage (you might want to use HP ice instead of roar to improve it, but you already have more powerful ice attack on this team). And a much better balance : Fire immunity, double res to steal, bug, grass, resistance to flying...


Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Taunt
- Toxic/will-o-wisp/shadow ball


The best anti spinner in OU, a nice defensive typing, and also really annoying for stall teams, thanks to taunt + recover. For the last slot, I like shadow ball to deal with Starmie (the only spinner that can really threaten Jellicent), and can surprise Latios or Reuniculus. But statuses are always interesting for a wall breaker.


And you could use Voltswitch > SR for Foretress (if you chose Heatran), always nice to gain momentum.

Thanks, I did what you suggested and replaced Conkeldurr with Terrakion. The team now looks like this:

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Protect

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Sacred Sword
- Earthquake

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 100 SDef / 156 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 236 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast


It's an excellent team, thank you.

 

[Rwhite84]

I like your teams creativity, but i would recommend using the calm mind chesto resto suicune set, it does a lot more damage

 

[Superpowerdude]

hey nice team as somebody who uses hail i feel like i am in a good position to help you out further with this team because hail teams are really awesome and fun!

OK first off i noticed your Foretress has Toxic. Toxic is kind of useless because you have Toxic spikes on Foretress anyway. additionally Sableye and Jellicent block rapid spin and can taunt you rendering your Foretress useless. For these reasons i suggest Volt Switch over Toxic. having Volt Switch can also help avoid Magnezone trapping you which could prove fatal for your team as it needs the hazards up for it to stall.
Also are 5 layers of entry hazards to much for Foretress to handle despit how defensive he is? Stall teams need toxic spikes more then spikes so i would suggest Gyro ball over Spikes. Careful nature hinders Volt Switchs power so i would suggest going relaxed and changing the evs to standard 252/176/80 as this will help you tank hits better and increase gyroball and Volt switchs strenght. i also suggest zero speed evs for gyro ball

Foretress

Hide

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 1776 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch

Also i noticed your abomasnow set is running Blizzards with adamant nature. i beleive you should switch Blizzard for Ice shard for this reason as Iceshard lets you Outspeed and hit all those dragon and flying types Landorous and Swords dance Gliscor typically killing them all after stealthrock. also Blizzards is not going to do much from a hindering nature anyway.

Hide

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Ice Shard
- Protect

i hope i helped in someway and good lcuk with using your hail team ;D

 

[bubbly]

Since your latest change the team looks a lot better but its still incredibly weak to Landorus and (Sub) Gliscor. Both can beat Jellicent pretty easily, leaving Abomasnow as your remaining check.

Something to try - use Phys Def Skarmory over Forretress, Tentacruel in place of Jellicent, and then Terrakion with something such as Gliscor. Give these changes a go and see if you like them. Doing this not only patches up defensive weaknesses, it also makes it substantially easier to get hazards up.

 

[Delko]

Add some descriptions to your team please, otherwise I'll have to lock this thread.

 

[Grec]

hey nice team as somebody who uses hail i feel like i am in a good position to help you out further with this team because hail teams are really awesome and fun!

OK first off i noticed your Foretress has Toxic. Toxic is kind of useless because you have Toxic spikes on Foretress anyway. additionally Sableye and Jellicent block rapid spin and can taunt you rendering your Foretress useless. For these reasons i suggest Volt Switch over Toxic. having Volt Switch can also help avoid Magnezone trapping you which could prove fatal for your team as it needs the hazards up for it to stall.
Also are 5 layers of entry hazards to much for Foretress to handle despit how defensive he is? Stall teams need toxic spikes more then spikes so i would suggest Gyro ball over Spikes. Careful nature hinders Volt Switchs power so i would suggest going relaxed and changing the evs to standard 252/176/80 as this will help you tank hits better and increase gyroball and Volt switchs strenght. i also suggest zero speed evs for gyro ball

Foretress

Hide

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 1776 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch

Also i noticed your abomasnow set is running Blizzards with adamant nature. i beleive you should switch Blizzard for Ice shard for this reason as Iceshard lets you Outspeed and hit all those dragon and flying types Landorous and Swords dance Gliscor typically killing them all after stealthrock. also Blizzards is not going to do much from a hindering nature anyway.

Hide

Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed
- Ice Shard
- Protect

i hope i helped in someway and good lcuk with using your hail team ;D

Actually, for Abomasnow, I've been using this set:


Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Blizzard
- Protect
- Wood Hammer
- Leech Seed

This set gives him the bulk he needs to survive, but it also gives him incredibly powerful attacks. Ice Shard is to weak to use with Abomasnow, so I use Blizzard instead to KO dragons.

I chose Toxic on Forretress for the fact that I can force things like Jellicent and other Spin Blockers to switch. It's actually rather useful, way more in my opinion then Volt Switch.

 

[Grec]

Add some descriptions to your team please, otherwise I'll have to lock this thread.

I'll do that once I finalize my team in this thread.

Since your latest change the team looks a lot better but its still incredibly weak to Landorus and (Sub) Gliscor. Both can beat Jellicent pretty easily, leaving Abomasnow as your remaining check.

Something to try - use Phys Def Skarmory over Forretress, Tentacruel in place of Jellicent, and then Terrakion with something such as Gliscor. Give these changes a go and see if you like them. Doing this not only patches up defensive weaknesses, it also makes it substantially easier to get hazards up.

Yup, while I haven't had too many problems with Landorus, Sub Gliscor really messed up my team one time.

However, I wouldn't replace Tentacruel with Jellicent (I need that spinblocker to keep my hazards on the field). Forretress has enough physical bulk imo and can easily wall stuff like Scizor and set up all over it, although Skarmory's Recovery Option would be nice. I'll think about it.

 

[Taylor]

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