Just to clear some things up before you read this thread, you may think its similar to this thread: Separate Analyses For Each Tier For Specific Pokémon
While that may seem to be what I am going to propose in this thread, this is not true. The thread linked here was proposing that Pokemon that work well in multiple tiers (such as Porygon 2 in UU and OU, and Blissey and OU and Ubers) should get separate pages for each tier. This is not what this thread shall be proposing, and in fact is not important to this thread at all.
The reason I am posting this thread is because Caelum has brought up a very important point in the Uber Blissey analysis I posted:
Now, some Pokemon will not need much explaining on their effectiveness in the Uber metagame. Gengar is a good example of this. Gengar can function well in Ubers because it can revenge kill Swords Dance Rayquaza, Lucario, and non-Choice Scarfed Garchomp without needing a Choice Scarf of its own. This is a very Desirable , but specific quality in Ubers. Thus, Gengar could easily get away with a paragraph about how it functions in Ubers. In a similar manner, Choice Scarf Heracross would get a mention for its ability to revenge kill Pokemon such as Dialga, Latias, Mewtwo, and Darkrai (in fact this has already happened in the Heracross update), and a possibly a paragraph in Team Options.
There are also Pokemon that have specific sets that are viable in Ubers. A good example of this is Ludicolo. Ludicolo has a separate set that focuses on Ubers, but none of the other sets are geared twords Ubers. This is fine, as some Pokemon require sets custom made for Ubers in order to be effective.
However, there are Pokemon like Blissey who have more than one viable set in Ubers. In fact, in the Uber Blissey analysis, you will notice that the sets are in fact the very same sets used in OU! Blissey is not only very useful in Ubers, but is in fact a very important Pokemon in the Uber tier. Blissey and Forretress are the very foundation on which Uber stall is built upon, thus these kind of Pokemon need comments about things like that. The problem is, these sets are nearly identical to the sets that are used in OU. For example, the Uber Blissey sets are nearly the same as the OU Blissey sets, only Blissey will generally prefer Seismic Toss as her attacking option and will prefer an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD and a Calm Nature (unless it has Ice Beam, but I digress). Additionally, Blissey requires a radically different team options section for Ubers, and different set comments that are specific to the Uber metagame.
Another very good example of a Pokemon that has mulitple viable sets in Ubers is Tyranitar. Choice Band Tyranitar can be a very valueble asset to Uber teams, as it is one of the few ways to trap and kill Latias, Kyogre's Arch enemy. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is another very useful Pokemon in Ubers, as it can threaten to sweep stall teams once Groudon is out, and many offensive teams will also struggle once they lose their Choice Scarfers. Finally, Choice Scarf Tyranitar is also useful in Ubers, because not only can it revenge kill Swords Dance Rayquaza, but it also has the ability to destroy weakened Psychic types. If you look at several Uber analyses, you will notice the Tyranitar is mentioned quite a bit. For example some Kyogre sets run enough speed to out speed Adamant Tyranitar, while Giratina-O invests in enough speed to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar. Once again, these sets are often very similar to their OU counterparts, with a few modifcations. for example, most Choice Band Tyranitar in Ubers are using a Careful nature and enough HP and Special Defense EVs to survive an Aura Sphere from Mewtwo. Thus, while the sets are similar, they would require different set comments for the Uber metagame.
Finally, Garchomp and Shaymin-S could potentially fare in a similar way. If Garchomp is voted OU, there will need to be an analysis written for it in the OU metagame. However, Garchomp is also a promiment force in the Uber metagame. once again, these sets are likely to be very simialr. For example, Swords Dance, Choice Scarf, and Choice Band Garchomp sets would be viable in both Ubers and OU. However, Garchomp's playstyle and set comments singifcantly differ between OU and Ubers. For example, Swords Dance Garchomp will have to watch out for Mewtwo and Darkrai in the Uber tier, and because they are so powerful, Garchomp is better off using Haban Berry or Life Orb than Yache berry. Additonally, Choice Scarf Garchomp must be Jolly in Ubers so it can outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia and also as the nice quality of being able to survive Rayquaza's ExtremeSpeed after a Swords Dance. Topics such as that would be no concern for Garchomp in OU. Finally, Shaymin-S could very easily face a similar situation if voted OU. Choice Scarf Shaymin-S is argubly the best revenge killer for Rock Polish Groudon because of its ability to not only switch into Earthquakes, but also its ability to outspeed and OHKO Groudon with Seed Flare. The other Shaymin-S sets such as the Sub Seeder and Growth sets would also be forced to function differently in Ubers due to the different threats it must account for (such as Choice Scaf Kyogre and Mewtwo). Once again, these sets are very similar, but function differently because of the tier they are being used in.
Thus, here is what I am proposing in short. If a non-Uber Pokemon has one or more very viable sets in Ubers that are similar to sets used in another tier, then it should get Uber specific sets that focuses on how they function in the Uber metagame, and a separate team options focusing on the Uber tier. I think this is improtant because it seems to me that Pokemon such as Blissey, Tyranitar, and Forretress do not get much mention in the Uber tier simply because they use similar sets to the ones they use in OU, despite having being played in a radically different metagame that should require not only a separate team options, but even a separate set explaining how to use them in Ubers. This is also because these Uber set comments can get lengthy enough to the point were the reagular sets become huge and cumbersome. If you think about it, this would be organised in a similar manner that Latias is. For example, Blissey would still have its OU sets, but would also have Uber versions (such as Uber Wish passer, Uber Cleric, and Uber Calm Minder).
Now, some Pokemon may be tough to decide this for. For example, a Pokemon could have multiple Uber niches with its sets, but they may be on the same viability as Gengar or Heracross; very good but not something that needs many speficic paragraphs for. Now I am not sure what these Pokemon are, but I think that we as a group should decide what these Pokemon are, as I can see some Pokemon could be debated uppon on whether they are in the same group as Heracross and Gengar are in, or the same group that Blissey and Tyranitar are in.
I am sorry if this thread is waste of time, but I feel this is an important topic that needs to be disscused. This could also apply to UU Pokemon in OU I guess, but I am not sure because not only do I not play UU or OU much, but unlike the other tiers, Ubers is not based off of usage in any manner.
While that may seem to be what I am going to propose in this thread, this is not true. The thread linked here was proposing that Pokemon that work well in multiple tiers (such as Porygon 2 in UU and OU, and Blissey and OU and Ubers) should get separate pages for each tier. This is not what this thread shall be proposing, and in fact is not important to this thread at all.
The reason I am posting this thread is because Caelum has brought up a very important point in the Uber Blissey analysis I posted:
Now, some Pokemon will not need much explaining on their effectiveness in the Uber metagame. Gengar is a good example of this. Gengar can function well in Ubers because it can revenge kill Swords Dance Rayquaza, Lucario, and non-Choice Scarfed Garchomp without needing a Choice Scarf of its own. This is a very Desirable , but specific quality in Ubers. Thus, Gengar could easily get away with a paragraph about how it functions in Ubers. In a similar manner, Choice Scarf Heracross would get a mention for its ability to revenge kill Pokemon such as Dialga, Latias, Mewtwo, and Darkrai (in fact this has already happened in the Heracross update), and a possibly a paragraph in Team Options.
There are also Pokemon that have specific sets that are viable in Ubers. A good example of this is Ludicolo. Ludicolo has a separate set that focuses on Ubers, but none of the other sets are geared twords Ubers. This is fine, as some Pokemon require sets custom made for Ubers in order to be effective.
However, there are Pokemon like Blissey who have more than one viable set in Ubers. In fact, in the Uber Blissey analysis, you will notice that the sets are in fact the very same sets used in OU! Blissey is not only very useful in Ubers, but is in fact a very important Pokemon in the Uber tier. Blissey and Forretress are the very foundation on which Uber stall is built upon, thus these kind of Pokemon need comments about things like that. The problem is, these sets are nearly identical to the sets that are used in OU. For example, the Uber Blissey sets are nearly the same as the OU Blissey sets, only Blissey will generally prefer Seismic Toss as her attacking option and will prefer an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD and a Calm Nature (unless it has Ice Beam, but I digress). Additionally, Blissey requires a radically different team options section for Ubers, and different set comments that are specific to the Uber metagame.
Another very good example of a Pokemon that has mulitple viable sets in Ubers is Tyranitar. Choice Band Tyranitar can be a very valueble asset to Uber teams, as it is one of the few ways to trap and kill Latias, Kyogre's Arch enemy. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is another very useful Pokemon in Ubers, as it can threaten to sweep stall teams once Groudon is out, and many offensive teams will also struggle once they lose their Choice Scarfers. Finally, Choice Scarf Tyranitar is also useful in Ubers, because not only can it revenge kill Swords Dance Rayquaza, but it also has the ability to destroy weakened Psychic types. If you look at several Uber analyses, you will notice the Tyranitar is mentioned quite a bit. For example some Kyogre sets run enough speed to out speed Adamant Tyranitar, while Giratina-O invests in enough speed to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar. Once again, these sets are often very similar to their OU counterparts, with a few modifcations. for example, most Choice Band Tyranitar in Ubers are using a Careful nature and enough HP and Special Defense EVs to survive an Aura Sphere from Mewtwo. Thus, while the sets are similar, they would require different set comments for the Uber metagame.
Finally, Garchomp and Shaymin-S could potentially fare in a similar way. If Garchomp is voted OU, there will need to be an analysis written for it in the OU metagame. However, Garchomp is also a promiment force in the Uber metagame. once again, these sets are likely to be very simialr. For example, Swords Dance, Choice Scarf, and Choice Band Garchomp sets would be viable in both Ubers and OU. However, Garchomp's playstyle and set comments singifcantly differ between OU and Ubers. For example, Swords Dance Garchomp will have to watch out for Mewtwo and Darkrai in the Uber tier, and because they are so powerful, Garchomp is better off using Haban Berry or Life Orb than Yache berry. Additonally, Choice Scarf Garchomp must be Jolly in Ubers so it can outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia and also as the nice quality of being able to survive Rayquaza's ExtremeSpeed after a Swords Dance. Topics such as that would be no concern for Garchomp in OU. Finally, Shaymin-S could very easily face a similar situation if voted OU. Choice Scarf Shaymin-S is argubly the best revenge killer for Rock Polish Groudon because of its ability to not only switch into Earthquakes, but also its ability to outspeed and OHKO Groudon with Seed Flare. The other Shaymin-S sets such as the Sub Seeder and Growth sets would also be forced to function differently in Ubers due to the different threats it must account for (such as Choice Scaf Kyogre and Mewtwo). Once again, these sets are very similar, but function differently because of the tier they are being used in.
Thus, here is what I am proposing in short. If a non-Uber Pokemon has one or more very viable sets in Ubers that are similar to sets used in another tier, then it should get Uber specific sets that focuses on how they function in the Uber metagame, and a separate team options focusing on the Uber tier. I think this is improtant because it seems to me that Pokemon such as Blissey, Tyranitar, and Forretress do not get much mention in the Uber tier simply because they use similar sets to the ones they use in OU, despite having being played in a radically different metagame that should require not only a separate team options, but even a separate set explaining how to use them in Ubers. This is also because these Uber set comments can get lengthy enough to the point were the reagular sets become huge and cumbersome. If you think about it, this would be organised in a similar manner that Latias is. For example, Blissey would still have its OU sets, but would also have Uber versions (such as Uber Wish passer, Uber Cleric, and Uber Calm Minder).
Now, some Pokemon may be tough to decide this for. For example, a Pokemon could have multiple Uber niches with its sets, but they may be on the same viability as Gengar or Heracross; very good but not something that needs many speficic paragraphs for. Now I am not sure what these Pokemon are, but I think that we as a group should decide what these Pokemon are, as I can see some Pokemon could be debated uppon on whether they are in the same group as Heracross and Gengar are in, or the same group that Blissey and Tyranitar are in.
I am sorry if this thread is waste of time, but I feel this is an important topic that needs to be disscused. This could also apply to UU Pokemon in OU I guess, but I am not sure because not only do I not play UU or OU much, but unlike the other tiers, Ubers is not based off of usage in any manner.
