Gen 1 Hypno (OU) [QC 2/2, GP 2/2]

[Amaranth]

[OVERVIEW]

Hypno has the best typing in RBY, serviceable base stats, and the uncommon ability to spread both sleep and paralysis through Hypnosis and Thunder Wave. While these qualities are good in a vacuum, Hypno is unfortunately outclassed by the most dominant Psychic-types in the tier; Starmie and Alakazam have Recover, while Exeggutor has Explosion, giving all three great options to play out of potentially difficult situations. Hypno, meanwhile, is stuck with Rest as its only recovery option and no way to match or break through its Psychic-type cousins in most scenarios. This means that Hypno struggles both defensively and offensively in practice, failing to find real defensive niches and to threaten much more than Thunder Wave on its Psychic-type foes.

Hypno's niche mostly exists alongside these superior Psychic-types, rather than in their place, offering unusual options its competitors lack or struggle to combine. For example, one may use their Exeggutor to lure a paralyzed target into blocking its Sleep Powder, KO it with Explosion, and then follow up with Hypno's Hypnosis for easy sleep. However, there are two use cases for Hypno as a primary Psychic-type that are worth mentioning. Hypno is better than either Jynx or Exeggutor at sleeping a foe, spreading paralysis, and later absorbing sleep thanks to its decent Defense, which allows it to run Rest without being overwhelmingly punished, thus potentially healing its own paralysis so that it may absorb sleep at a later point. Jynx struggles with using Rest due to its terrible Defense, while Exeggutor struggles because of Ice-type moves breaking its Rest cycles. Hypno's diverse toolkit also includes oddball moves such as Submission, which allows for more pressure on Chansey than the other Psychic-types can usually offer, and it can lead to some extremely favorable scenarios with some lucky paralysis and critical hits. These advantages are incredibly specific and marginal, though, so Hypno is nothing more than a fringe pick in RBY OU.

[SET]
name: Double Status
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Hypno's main draw is Hypnosis, as it incapacitates a Pokemon in a single turn, possibly making one would-be counter into nothing more than a momentum sink. The second best option against these counters is Thunder Wave; this won't help Hypno break through them much, but it will at least enable its teammates to do so. A number of options contest the fourth moveslot: Seismic Toss is the most common and appealing, as it is Hypno's best bet at pressuring Psychic-types. Rest allows it to stick around for longer, shrugging off weaker attacks from many special attackers, though it can be difficult for Hypno to wake up in the presence of strong physical attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, and Rhydon.

Hypno's toothlessness against Alakazam and Starmie can most easily be addressed by an Explosion teammate that can lure and remove them—Exeggutor being by far the most reliable, though Gengar can also lure in the former. Once either is removed, Hypno's sleep and paralysis can actually significantly improve one's odds in the endgame. Endgames are usually left for Pokemon that are very dangerous but also very fragile, such as tier icon Tauros, for which Thunder Wave is often a death sentence. Alternatively, if one really needs to cripple Alakazam, Starmie, or Chansey for a teammate, Hypno's strong Psychic will most often force players to expose one of those three targets to its Thunder Wave, which can be very useful for specific teammates trying to break through them. Ultimately, though, this is no different from Alakazam's ability to force Thunder Wave onto special sponges, and Alakazam outclasses Hypno in most scenarios, so make sure you have further reasons to select Hypno—such as Hypnosis—if your primary goal is to paralyze special sponges.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypno can run a moveset of Hypnosis / Thunder Wave / Reflect / Rest, preferably as a lead. It allows Hypno to land Hypnosis, then paralyze any potential switch-ins, and then simply sit in place with Reflect and Rest until the opponent gives in and puts it to sleep, activating Sleep Clause to keep all its teammates safe. However, should this plan not come to fruition, this set can become entirely useless. Other Reflect + Rest sets can also exist, as these moves make Hypno generally hard to take down, but it will generally struggle with making progress due to Hypno's lackluster offense.

Submission allows Hypno to break through Chansey with some luck between full paralysis and critical hits. However, it is pretty much useless otherwise, and the recoil will leave Hypno significantly weakened even if it cripples or KOes Chansey. Nevertheless, due to Chansey's omnipresence, it can be viable to lure it in and break through it with some consistency.

Hypno has access to Meditate, Body Slam, and Hyper Beam, which can theoretically help it break through its Psychic-type walls, but in practice it takes far too long to set up and will usually get KOed before dealing any significant damage. If it elects to run just Meditate + Body Slam or Hyper Beam + Reflect + Rest, then it won't be KOed too quickly, but it also won't be able to break through a vast number of foes, including Gengar, Rhydon, and Reflect Snorlax. Headbutt's 30% flinch chance can give Hypno odds to break through foes in the long run, but it comes at the cost of Base Power.

Hypno can use Toxic in conjunction with Rest to try and defeat its Psychic-type walls through extremely passive stalling, something that standard Hypno cannot achieve by any other means. However, Toxic has proven to be a generally unsuccessful strategy at high level play, with only occasional appearances and no results to write home about.

Counter can be used to try and catch Snorlax and Tauros, but Hypno already struggles for moveslots, and spending one for Counter generally leaves it much less useful in the long term, banking almost its entire utility on the ability to land one Counter.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Psychic-types with Recover**: Starmie and Alakazam are unthreatened by Hypno's entire movepool bar Hypnosis. Hypno is able to cripple them with Thunder Wave, but it is pretty much forced to switch out immediately after, as it has no prospects in a one-on-one matchup without an extremely unlikely run of Psychic Special drops.

**Psychic-types with Rest**: While they do not handle Hypno quite as comfortably as Psychic-types with Recover, Rest Jynx, Slowbro, and Exeggutor can generally stop it from making progress, especially if Hypno lacks Seismic Toss. Because Hypno will force them into passivity for a few turns, they are not quite as efficient as other checks. Slowbro deserves a special mention due to its ability to set up with Amnesia against Hypno.

**Chansey**: While it has to respect the potential for Submission, Chansey is entirely happy against any other Hypno set, and even when Hypno is running Submission, misses and recoil can often lead to its demise.

**Physical Attackers**: While not as frail as other Psychic-types, Hypno is still not physically bulky enough to shrug off attacks from the likes of Snorlax, Rhydon, and Tauros, unless it is running the rare Reflect. All of these Pokemon can trade hits favorably against Hypno, especially if it ever attempts to use Rest.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Amaranth, 265630]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [EB0LA, 423005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [CryoGyro, 331519]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

Let's go over this a bit. It's pretty immaculate, really. Implement for QC 1/2, if you want to hold a gun to my head and tell me I'm wrong you know where to find me.
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[OVERVIEW]

Hypno is blessed with the best typing in RBY, serviceable base stats, and the uncommon ability to spread both sleep and paralysis through Hypnosis and Thunder Wave. (Not sure if I'd call the ability uncommon, it's a combination quite a few Pokemon have...they just suck most of the time.) While these qualities are good in a vacuum, Hypno unfortunately deals with the reality of being outclassed by the most dominant Psychic-types in the tier; (ASC, RH) Starmie and Alakazam have access to Recover, while Exeggutor has access to Explosion, giving all three great options to play out of potentially difficult situations. Hypno, however, is stuck with Rest as its only recovery option and no way to match or break through its Psychic-type cousins in most scenarios. This means that in practice Hypno struggles both defensively and offensively, failing to find real defensive niches and not being able to threaten much more than a Thunder Wave on its Psychic-type opponents.

Hypno's niche is mostly carved out alongside these superior options, rather than in their place. For example, one may wish to use their Exeggutor to lure and Explode on a paralyzed target that successfully blocks its Sleep Powder, then following up with Hypno's Hypnosis after the status absorber has been removed. However, there are two use cases for standalone Hypno that are worth mentioning: if looking for a Pokemon that can spread Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and later absorb sleep, Hypno is better than either Jynx or Exeggutor at doing so due thanks (more positive wording) to its decent Defense, allowing it to run Rest without being overwhelmingly punished, healing its own paralysis so that it may successfully absorb sleep at a later point. Jynx struggles with this due to its vulnerability to physical attacks, while Exeggutor struggles due to because of its (reducing repetition) weakness to Ice moves that will break its Rest cycles. The other thing that Hypno holds over its fellow Psychic-types is the move Submission, which allows for more nagging (not the right word really; maybe "biting") pressure on Chansey than the other Psychics can offer. Both of these advantages are incredibly specific and marginal, though, hence Hypno is relegated to being nothing more than a fringe pick in RBY OU.

An oft-forgotten con of Hypno over Exeggutor is that it loses the Ground resistance, which can make teams using it noticeably weaker to Rhydon.

[SET]
name: Double Status
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Submission / Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Hypno's main draw is Hypnosis, as it grants the ability to functionally knock a Pokemon out of commission in a single blow, and allows it to turn one would-be hard counter into nothing more than a momentum sink. Should these would-be hard counters not be on the receiving end of Hypnosis, then they will at least more than likely be at the receiving end of Thunder Wave; this won't help Hypno break them much at all, but it will at least enable his its teammates to do so in his instead. Psychic is ran by default as its STAB attack and best move into against tier titans Snorlax and Tauros, amongst other threats; Hypno's Special, while not irresistible, still packs a relatively strong punch that allows it to pressure a good portion of the tier. The fourth slot is contested between a number of options: Seismic Toss is the most common and appealing, as it is its best bet at pressuring the Psychics that otherwise absorb and heal off its Psychic very comfortably. Submission pressures paralyzed Chansey, allowing Hypno to try its luck at finding a kill scoring a KO with the help of some critical hits and full paralysis, though the recoil and the accuracy can both significantly backfire. Rest allows it to stick around the field for longer, shrugging off weaker attacks from all kinds of sources, though it can be difficult for Hypno to wake up in Tauros's presence.

The Rest point is very vague. What sources of damage? I'd wager Alakazam, Chansey, Exeggutor, Gengar, non-Surf Starmie...but nothing is really noted. Even a few of these being mentioned would greatly assist the reader in scaling how well Hypno can shrug off blows, as well as give a good guideline on how to actually wake it up.

I'd also note that a predicted Rest is also a one-way ticket to letting in Snorlax or Rhydon, which isn't exactly the best position to be in, as it's forced to Rest loop. Rhydon can do EQ -> paraslam -> EQ to 3HKO with impunity, Snorlax can spam slam, hope for paralysis, then KO. Tauros is definitely the big one, but it's not the only one either.

Hypno's plight of being toothless against Alakazam and Starmie can most easily be addressed by an Exploding teammate that can lure them on the field and remove them - Exeggutor being by far the most reliable, though Gengar can also successfully lure the former. (This reads a bit oddly. Perhaps "Hypno's plight of being toothless against Alakazam and Starmie can most easily be addressed by Explosion users like Exeggutor and Gengar that can lure them on the field and remove them" could be more concise? Or does this make the Gengar mention less effective?) Once that happens, Hypno's statuses can actually significantly improve one's odds in the end-game, (AH) as those stages of the game are usually left for Pokemon that are very dangerous but also very fragile, such as tier icon Tauros, for which Thunder Wave is often a death sentence. Alternatively, if one really needs to cripple Alakazam, Starmie, and/or Chansey for a teammate, Hypno's strong Psychic will most often force players to expose one of those three targets to its Thunder Wave, also achieving potentially desirable effects. Ultimately though, this is no different from Alakazam's ability to force Thunder Waves onto opposing special sponges, and Alakazam outclasses Hypno in most scenarios, so make sure you have further reasons to select Hypno (such as Hypnosis) if your goal is primarily to paralyze opposing special sponges.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

I know you were a bit iffy on me going over OOs in DMs a while back but at worst the stuff here should be gone over as what not to do imo. People tend to get really experimental with Hypno when they really shouldn't. There's also some stuff that I think is actually alright, but you prolly know better.

Hypno can run a set of Hypnosis / Thunder Wave / Reflect / Rest, preferrably in the lead slot. As silly as it looks, it allows Hypno to land its Hypnosis, then get a lead in spreading status, and then simply sit in place with Reflect and Rest until the opponent gives in and sleeps it, activating Sleep Clause to keeps all its teammates safe. Many things can go wrong when using such a set, as it is really entirely useless if left awake, but it can provide you with a nice lead in status progress if it all goes to plan.

Psychic/TWave/Ref/Rest has been a set since the early-2000s, perhaps add that as an aside? Hipmonlee made this laxless team using it a while back too, I think late 2020ish. If it's bad, I'd say to at least discourage its use considering the historical factor.

Hypno has access to Meditate, which in conjunction with Body Slam and Hyper Beam can theoretically help it break through its Psychic-type walls, but in practice it takes far too long to set up and will usually result in Hypno getting KOd before it can deal any significant damage. If it elects to run Meditate + Body Slam or Hyper Beam + Reflect + Rest, then it won't be KOd too quickly, but it also won't be able to break a vast number of opponents, ranging from Gengar to Rhydon to Reflect Snorlax.

I've seen Headbutt work alongside Meditate in the past; I know GGFan has used it at the very least, I think Enigami as well. It's a gimmick, but so is literally any Hypno set using Meditate, so you may as well go all-out.

Hypno can use Toxic in conjunction with Rest to try and defeat its Psychic-type walls by means of extremely passive stalling. However, Toxic has proven to be a generally unsuccessful strategy at high level play, with only occasional appearances and no results to write home about.

Then why note this at all? Would TWave + SToss not achieve this while not sacrificing a moveslot to something like this? If you're going to note this, then sell it to the reader more effectively while contrasting this with something else.

Perhaps note Counter somewhere? I've seen it a couple of times and it's fairly decent considering Snorlax likes to try and break it. It's better than Toxic at the very least, surely? It can absorb Tauros Hyper Beam and KO it, and iirc deal enough damage to either Tauros or Snorlax to KO with a Psychic thereafter. There's also the "leave zam alive by the skin of its teeth" thing, I guess.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Psychic-types with Recover**: Starmie and Alakazam are entirely unthreatened by Hypno's entire movepool bar Hypnosis. Hypno is able to cripple them with Thunder Wave, but it is pretty much forced to switch out immediately after as it has no prospects in the 1v1 a one-on-one matchup outside of an extremely unlikely chance of taking them down via Psychic Special drops.

**Physical Attackers**: While not as frail as other Psychic-types in the tier, Hypno is still not bulky enough to shrug off attacks from the likes of Snorlax, Rhydon, or Tauros, unless it is running the rare Reflect. All of these Pokemon can trade hits favorably against Hypno, especially if it ever attempts to use Rest.

**Chansey**: While it has to respect the potential Submission, Chansey is entirely happy to face off against any other Hypno set and simply outlast it, and even when Hypno is running Submission, misses and recoil can often lead to its demise regardless.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Amaranth, 265630]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[Amaranth]

Implemented wooo

 

[EB0LA]

Psychic-types with Recover Healing; or just Psychic-types.

The less common, but recently more common, Rest-Exeggutor also hinders Hypno, making any progress it makes pretty miniscule bar Hypnosis ofc.

I suppose due to Jynx's frail ways, "Psychic-types with Healing" may not fully apply, as if Hypno makes the Jynx Rest, unlike bulky Exeggutor, it'll have a tough time waking & still being useful as often.

Also, as Counter was written off as "banking its entire utility on the ability to land one Counter."

I feel Submission is in a similar boat. As Submission is really used on one thing, & that would be Chansey; and once revealed really doesn't serve much purpose after that either.

Thus I would prefer seeing that in OO as well, rather than main set.

Beside this, looks good
Once implemented- QC 2/2

edit: Sorry, 1 more thing, forgot about Slowbro! Add him to Rest Psychics as well. Ty.

 

[Amaranth]

Psychic-types with Recover Healing; or just Psychic-types.

The less common, but recently more common, Rest-Exeggutor also hinders Hypno, making any progress it makes pretty miniscule bar Hypnosis ofc.

I suppose due to Jynx's frail ways, "Psychic-types with Healing" may not fully apply, as if Hypno makes the Jynx Rest, unlike bulky Exeggutor, it'll have a tough time waking & still being useful as often.

Also, as Counter was written off as "banking its entire utility on the ability to land one Counter."

I feel Submission is in a similar boat. As Submission is really used on one thing, & that would be Chansey; and once revealed really doesn't serve much purpose after that either.

Thus I would prefer seeing that in OO as well, rather than main set.

Beside this, looks good
Once implemented- QC 2/2

Made another paragraph for Rest Jynx/Egg and moved Submission to OO. GP ready

 

[dlovrat]

There are a few issues I wish to highlight. You mention standalone Submission as 'The other thing that Hypno holds over its fellow Psychic-types' when more Psychics actually have access to it than not. The only ones not to get it are Starmie and Egg. If you're talking purely potential sleepers, then Jynx being Freeze proof is arguably a better choice than Hypno for threatening Chansey in this way. But in general Zam a far better choice for this role. Zam is a more successful lure, with Chansey more likely to switch in (considering the possibility of Hypno having Hypnosis instead of T Wave). Both are capable of 2HKO-ing, but Zam's higher Crit Rate is a more important factor than Hypno's higher Attack stat.

Furthermore you negate to mention Submission in your coverage of Meditate Hypno options. Unlike Body Slam, +6 Submission can't be successfully walled by Reflect Lax, and can power through Don. while still having fair odds to beat Starmie and Zam (with prior Para support - considering Speed drop mechanics), though obviously the Gengar issue still remains.

Also, Substitute is an option in place of Reflect in this Meditate/Rest set. It changes your list of set-up targets and enables you to buy turns on any non Surf (or Hydro Pump) Starmie, BoltBeam Chansey, Exeggutor, non S Toss Zam etc, as well as lessening the threat of Freeze or being forced out by Psychic Special drops (with the trade-off in now being more vulnerable to Physical attackers).

 

[Amaranth]

There are a few issues I wish to highlight. You mention standalone Submission as 'The other thing that Hypno holds over its fellow Psychic-types' when more Psychics actually have access to it than not. The only ones not to get it are Starmie and Egg. If you're talking purely potential sleepers, then Jynx being Freeze proof is arguably a better choice than Hypno for threatening Chansey in this way. But in general Zam a far better choice for this role. Zam is a more successful lure, with Chansey more likely to switch in (considering the possibility of Hypno having Hypnosis instead of T Wave). Both are capable of 2HKO-ing, but Zam's higher Crit Rate is a more important factor than Hypno's higher Attack stat.

"Capable of 2HKO-ing" is a very charitable way to describe these rolls, which add up for a spread of 88.5% to 104.3%.
Alakazam Submission vs. Chansey: 212-250 (30.1 - 35.5%)
Alakazam Submission vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 411-484 (58.4 - 68.8%)

The Jynx suggestion is misguided as the only reason this has any potential whatsoever is the ability to combine the pressure on Chansey with the threat of Thunder Wave; Blizzard+Submission poses little threat to all of Starmie, Alakazam, and Cloyster, meaning nearly every team will easily be able to laugh it off. Also, even if you miracolously land this crit 2HKO (same rolls as Alakazam), which is the best case scenario for the set, you take enough recoil to be open to Tauros revengekill, so even in the ideal cases you will put your opponent in a position to claw the advantage right back. Hypno also does this to some degree, but it will force Tauros to risk Hyper Beam mindgames, which is a way less advantageous position than the one where Tauros can freely Body Slam on a weakened Jynx.

Your 'possibility of Hypno having Hypnosis' remark is generally misguided as Submission Hypno is meant to be used after you've already put something else to sleep, completely invalidating that point.

Finally, Alakazam gives up a very valuable move in Seismic Toss if it wants to pull off Submission, as it gives up the ability to 1v1 Starmie (even outright losing against Surf variants). Hypno can never achieve this in the first place, meaning that, especially in situations where you are running both Hypno and Alakazam on the same team, you'd usually rather sacrifice a slot on your Hypno (which still does its primary job with Psychic+TWave alone) than on your Alakazam (which would lose the ability to pressure Starmie 1v1).

You are correct on one thing and one thing only, and it is that technically these pokemon do learn Submission. Wording has been tweaked to reflect this.

Furthermore you negate to mention Submission in your coverage of Meditate Hypno options. Unlike Body Slam, +6 Submission can't be successfully walled by Reflect Lax, and can power through Don. while still having fair odds to beat Starmie and Zam (with prior Para support - considering Speed drop mechanics), though obviously the Gengar issue still remains.

Fair odds to beat Psychics with Recover is yet again an extremely charitable way to word things, as they can paralyze Hypno and force it to Rest then switch out to reset their Speed, then switch back in for another speed drop after Hypno wakes up, leading to situations where they usually outspeed. And this is with prior support from teammates, too. You also neglect to mention being utterly hopeless against Zapdos, with Submission recoil helping its 3HKO chances more than anything. I cannot imagine Submission to have a more positive match up spread than Body Slam pretty much ever, though I suppose getting through RefLax is a decent upside (especially if the opponent assumes Body Slam and just sits there with Lax until you are fully set up and ready to hit back - but then you're already at +6 and your opponent can just switch in their Psychic of choice to patch up the situation effortlessly, since it will be faster and you will be unable to boost further).

Also, Substitute is an option in place of Reflect in this Meditate/Rest set. It changes your list of set-up targets and enables you to buy turns on any non Surf (or Hydro Pump) Starmie, BoltBeam Chansey, Exeggutor, non S Toss Zam etc, as well as lessening the threat of Freeze or being forced out by Psychic Special drops (with the trade-off in now being more vulnerable to Physical attackers).

This just seems suicidal in a metagame dominated by Tauros and Snorlax. I can't say I've tested it before, but I cannot imagine a world in which it is any good. This is easily the worst suggestion in the list.

I would have appreciated your suggestions a lot more if they were worded as suggestions and not as attempts at pointing out errors with the analysis, especially given that they failed way more than they landed. I suppose it wouldn't have made any difference to the content in the end, but it would have been a lot more pleasant for both of us if you did.

 

[dlovrat]

It's hard to convey tone with my wording. I was just stating matter of fact. In all honesty my intentions were to suggest, not overly criticize.
Maybe seeing someone describe your analysis as 'immaculate' after reading, made me slightly salty, as I am someone who has tested Hypno extensively.

Admittedly, Jynx was mostly an afterthought. But in that scenario you envisaged, I don't know about you but I'd take that Jynx for Chansey trade any time.
I respect your view on Zam, and it's an argument I have previously considered, but in my own personal opinion, while valuable to have, I wouldn't describe S Toss as 100% mandatory.
I know it's charitable in regards to that damage spread. (Though the possibility of double Crit does exist.) But the point isn't necessarily to achieve the 2HKO. It also about threatening it to a very valuable enemy piece. Say this is the very possible sequence of events. Lead Submission Zam vs enemy Zam/Starmie. Turn 1 T Wave into enemy Chansey switch. Turn 2 Crit Submission vs Ice Beam(no Freeze)/Sing(miss)/T Wave/Full Para. Here the enemy logically has to respect the 2HKO potential and switch leaving an exploitable Chansey for the immediate future of the game.
There's also a hidden advantage (if you can call it that!) of Submission recoil killing yourself that exists, leaving the opponent unable to have their move to heal up, leaving a vulnerable Chansey and free switch in to Tauros or whatever.

You are correct on Zapdos, I agree I could have mentioned it as part of the trade-off in picking that move. My main aim in that point was to bring to your attention the calcs of +6 Submission vs Reflect Lax.
Fair odds was maybe pushing it with regards to Starmie. Yet I stand by it with Zam, in my experience the aggressor always seems to have an advantage in those situations, when it can only take one unfortunate full Para from half health for the Zam to croak.

Ultimately I'm suggesting further niche options for an already niche Mon. I never stated Substitute was the best option over Reflect, just a further option. For you to disregard it completely after admitting you have never used it doesn't sit well.
Yes we are in a Tauros and Lax dominated Meta, but also a Freeze-fishing and Psychic dominated Meta - buying turns against this can be valuable. Having used Meditate and Reflect Hypno in the past it can be infuriating how often it was forced out by Special drops or Frozen.
While Tauros and Lax are largely ever-present, it can be common that they are the only two physical attackers that people bring in a team. Lax is easier to wall than people realise, while getting damage on the Tauros is always valuable, and Tauros probably isn't going to be switching in till Hypno's full set is revealed fearing T Wave. It's also possible you could have traded your own Lax and Tauros for the enemies by the time Hypno comes into play.
If you really, really want to further support Sub Hypno, you can combo it with a Growl user. -1 Lax Slam is unlikely to break Hypno's Sub. Then the enemy having to switch out and back in again buys you more setup turns/eases prediction.
Up against opponents that can't break Hypno's Sub, the Sub/Rest combo work well for Recovery, guaranteeing Hypno will be at or near full-health when waking if something different switches in.
Realistically it's a Late-Game Mon and a match-up fish. A lot of the time you would just use it as sleep fodder if you see Gengar. We can go on the theory and talk about hypotheticals forever, but the surprise factor in practice is the true way it can potentially make its mark.

 

[Adeleine]

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[OVERVIEW]

Hypno is blessed with the best typing in RBY, serviceable base stats, and the uncommon ability to spread both sleep and paralysis through Hypnosis and Thunder Wave. While these qualities are good in a vacuum, Hypno unfortunately deals with the reality of faces being outclassed by the most dominant Psychic-types in the tier; Starmie and Alakazam have access to Recover, while Exeggutor has access to Explosion, giving all three great options to play out of potentially difficult situations. Hypno, however, is stuck with Rest as its only recovery option and no way to match or break through its Psychic-type cousins in most scenarios. This means that, (AC) in practice, (AC) Hypno struggles both defensively and offensively, failing to find real defensive niches and not being able to threaten much more than a Thunder Wave on its Psychic-type opponents. foes.

Hypno's niche is mostly carved out alongside these superior options, mostly exists alongside these superior Psychic-types, rather than in their place, offering unusual options its competitors lack or struggle to combine. (talked on disc) For example, one may wish to use their Exeggutor to lure and explode a paralyzed target that successfully blocks into blocking its Sleep Powder, KO it with Explosion, and then follow up with Hypno's Hypnosis after the status absorber has been removed. However, there are two use cases for standalone Hypno as a primary Psychic-type (something like this makes sense, i imagine? feel free to tinker) that are worth mentioning: if looking for a Pokemon that can spread Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, and later absorb sleep, mentioning. Hypno is better than either Jynx or Exeggutor at doing so sleeping a foe, spreading paralysis, and later absorbing sleep thanks to its decent Defense, allowing which allows it to run Rest without being overwhelmingly punished, thus potentially healing its own paralysis so that it may successfully absorb sleep at a later point. Jynx struggles with this due to its vulnerability to physical attacks, using Rest due to its terrible Defense, while Exeggutor struggles because of its weakness to Ice moves that will break Ice-type moves breaking its Rest cycles. Hypno's diverse toolkit also includes oddball moves such as Submission, which allows for more pressure on Chansey than the other Psychic-types can usually offer, and it can lead to some extremely favorable scenarios with some luck. lucky paralysis and damage rolls. (I imagine? if not, pls clarify) These advantages are incredibly specific and marginal, though, hence so Hypno is relegated to being nothing more than a fringe pick in RBY OU.

[SET]
name: Double Status
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Hypno's main draw is Hypnosis, as it grants the ability to functionally knocks a Pokemon out of commission in a single blow, and allows it to turn turn, possibly making one would-be hard counter into nothing more than a momentum sink. Should these would-be hard counters not be on the receiving end of Hypnosis, then they will at least more than likely be at the receiving end of The second best option against these counters is Thunder Wave; this won't help Hypno break through them much at all, but it will at least enable its teammates to do so instead. Psychic is ran by default as its STAB attack and Psychic, off Hypno's moderately high Special, is its (you can change "moderately high" if youre not vibing it. if you cant think of smth you like lmk and we'll change things) best move attack (i imagine techncially twave is the best "move" against tauros?) against tier titans Snorlax and Tauros, amongst other threats; Hypno's Special, while not irresistible, still packs a relatively strong punch that allows it to pressure threats, pressuring a good portion of the tier. The fourth slot is contested between a number of options: A number of options contest the fourth moveslot: Seismic Toss is the most common and appealing, as it is its Hypno's best bet at pressuring the Psychic-types that otherwise absorb and heal off its Psychic very comfortably. Rest allows it to stick around the field for longer, shrugging off weaker attacks from many special attackers in the tier, though it can be difficult for Hypno to wake up in the presence of strong physical attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, or and Rhydon.

Hypno's plight of being toothless toothlessness against Alakazam and Starmie can most easily be addressed by an Exploding Explosion teammate that can lure them on the field in and remove them—Exeggutor being by far the most reliable, though Gengar can also successfully lure in the former. Once that happens, either is removed, Hypno's statuses can actually significantly improve one's odds in the end-game, as those stages of the game endgame. Endgames are usually left for Pokemon that are very dangerous but also very fragile, such as tier icon Tauros, for which Thunder Wave is often a death sentence. Alternatively, if one really needs to cripple Alakazam, Starmie, or Chansey for a teammate, Hypno's strong Psychic will most often force players to expose one of those three targets to its Thunder Wave, also achieving potentially desirable effects. which is also generally useful. (I imagine this makes sense? you could also go more into detail about the "potentially desirable effects") Ultimately, (AC) though, this is no different from Alakazam's ability to force Thunder Waves onto opposing special sponges, and Alakazam outclasses Hypno in most scenarios, so make sure you have further reasons to select Hypno—such as Hypnosis—if your goal is primarily primary goal is to paralyze opposing special sponges.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypno can run a moveset of Hypnosis / Thunder Wave / Reflect / Rest, preferrably in the lead slot. as a lead. As silly as it looks, it allows Hypno to land its Hypnosis, then get getting (if you mean "then para the mon opp switches to after hypno sleeps", you should be a bit more explicit) a lead in spreading status, and then simply sit in place with Reflect and Rest until the opponent gives in and sleeps it, put it to sleep, activating Sleep Clause to keeps all its teammates safe. Many things can go wrong when using such a set, as it is really entirely useless if left awake, but it can provide you with a nice lead in status progress if it all goes to plan. However, if the opponent refuses to sleep it, instead (fill in the blank. "for example" optional) , it becomes entirely useless. Other Reflect + Rest sets can also exist, as these moves make Hypno generally hard to take down, but it will generally struggle with making progress regardless due to Hypno's lackluster offensive traits. offense.

Submission allows Hypno to break through Chansey with some luck (RC) between full paralysis and critical hits. However, it is pretty much useless against every other Pokemon in the tier, and the recoil will leave Hypno significantly weakened even if it lands on its intended target. KOes Chansey. (or is like "cripples" better?) Nevertheless, due to Chansey's omnipresence, it can be used viable to lure it in and break through it with some consistency.

Hypno has access to Meditate, which, (AC) in conjunction with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, (AC) can theoretically help it break through its Psychic-type walls, but in practice it takes far too long to set up and will usually result in Hypno getting KOd before it can deal get KOed before dealing any significant damage. If it elects to run just Meditate + Body Slam or Hyper Beam + Reflect + Rest, then it won't be KOed too quickly, but it also won't be able to break through a vast number of opponents, foes, ranging from Gengar to Rhydon to Reflect Snorlax. Headbutt's 30% flinch chance can give Hypno odds to break through foes in the long run, but it comes at the cost of Base Power.

Hypno can use Toxic in conjunction with Rest to try and defeat its Psychic-type walls by means of through extremely passive stalling, something that standard (bc above paragraph, i guess?) Hypno cannot achieve by any other means. However, Toxic has proven to be a generally unsuccessful strategy at high level RBY OU (not really gp but im slightly worried ppl get the wrong idea about uu) play, with only occasional appearances and no results to write home about.

Counter can be used to try and catch out Snorlax and Tauros, but Hypno already struggles for moveslots, (AC) and spending one for Counter generally leaves him with very little space to make itself it much less useful in the long term, banking almost its entire utility on the ability to land one Counter.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Psychic-types with Recover**: Starmie and Alakazam are entirely unthreatened by Hypno's entire movepool bar Hypnosis. Hypno is able to cripple them with Thunder Wave, but it is pretty much forced to switch out immediately after, (AC) as it has no prospects in a one-on-one match up outside of an extremely unlikely chance of taking them down via matchup without an extremely unlikely run of (I imagine this makes sense?) Psychic Special drops.

**Psychic-types with Rest**: While they do not handle Hypno quite as comfortably as Psychic-types with Recover, Rest Jynx, Slowbro and Exeggutor can generally stop it from making progress, especially if Hypno lacks Seismic Toss. While Hypno by itself will most likely fail to break these Rest users, it Because Hypno will force them into passivity for a few turns, so they are not quite as efficient as other checks. Slowbro deserves a special mention due to its ability to set up with Amnesia against Hypno.

**Chansey**: While it has to respect the potential for Submission, Chansey is entirely happy to face off against any other Hypno set and simply outlast it, and even when Hypno is running Submission, misses and recoil can often lead to its demise regardless.

**Physical Attackers**: While not as frail as other Psychic-types in the tier, Hypno is still not physically bulky enough to shrug off attacks from the likes of Snorlax, Rhydon, or and Tauros, unless it is running the rare Reflect. All of these Pokemon can trade hits favorably against Hypno, especially if it ever attempts to use Rest.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Amaranth, 265630]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [EB0LA, 423005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [, ]]

1/2 nice writing. lmk if you want to talk about other things, ik some of the comments were kinda wishy washy

 

[Amaranth]

yeet

implemented <3

 

[CryoGyro]

GP 2/2

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[OVERVIEW]

Hypno is blessed with has (cliche and makes it sound like hypno's gonna be good) the best typing in RBY, serviceable base stats, and the uncommon ability to spread both sleep and paralysis through Hypnosis and Thunder Wave. While these qualities are good in a vacuum, Hypno is unfortunately faces being outclassed by the most dominant Psychic-types in the tier; Starmie and Alakazam have access to Recover, while Exeggutor has Explosion, giving all three great options to play out of potentially difficult situations. Hypno, however meanwhile, is stuck with Rest as its only recovery option and no way to match or break through its Psychic-type cousins in most scenarios. This means that, (comma) in practice, Hypno struggles both defensively and offensively in practice, failing to find real defensive niches and not being able to threaten much more than a Thunder Wave on its Psychic-type foes.

Hypno's niche mostly exists alongside these superior Psychic-types, rather than in their place, offering unusual options its competitors lack or struggle to combine. For example, one may use their Exeggutor to lure a paralyzed target into blocking its Sleep Powder, KO it with Explosion, and then follow up with Hypno's Hypnosis after the status absorber has been removed for easy sleep. However, there are two use cases for Hypno as a primary Psychic-type that are worth mentioning. Hypno is better than either Jynx or Exeggutor at sleeping a foe, spreading paralysis, and later absorbing sleep thanks to its decent Defense, which allows it to run Rest without being overwhelmingly punished, thus potentially healing its own paralysis so that it may absorb sleep at a later point. Jynx struggles with using Rest due to its terrible Defense, while Exeggutor struggles because of Ice-type moves breaking its Rest cycles. Hypno's diverse toolkit also includes oddball moves such as Submission, which allows for more pressure on Chansey than the other Psychic-types can usually offer, and it can lead to some extremely favorable scenarios with some lucky paralysis and critical hits. These advantages are incredibly specific and marginal, though, so Hypno is relegated to being nothing more than a fringe pick in RBY OU.

[SET]
name: Double Status
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Seismic Toss / Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Hypno's main draw is Hypnosis, as it functionally knocks a Pokemon out of commission incapacitates a Pokemon in a single turn, possibly making one would-be hard counter into nothing more than a momentum sink. The second best option against these counters is Thunder Wave; this won't help Hypno break through them much at all, but it will at least enable its teammates to do so instead. Psychic, off Hypno's moderately high Special, is its best attack against tier titans Snorlax and Tauros, amongst other threats, pressuring a good portion of the tier. A number of options contest the fourth moveslot: Seismic Toss is the most common and appealing, as it is Hypno's best bet at pressuring the Psychic-types that otherwise absorb and heal off its Psychic very comfortably. Rest allows it to stick around for longer, shrugging off weaker attacks from many special attackers in the tier, though it can be difficult for Hypno to wake up in the presence of strong physical attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, and Rhydon.

Hypno's toothlessness against Alakazam and Starmie can most easily be addressed by an Explosion teammate that can lure them and remove them&mdash;Exeggutor being by far the most reliable, though Gengar can also successfully lure in the former. Once either is removed, Hypno's statuses sleep and paralysis can actually significantly improve one's odds in the endgame. Endgames are usually left for Pokemon that are very dangerous but also very fragile, such as tier icon Tauros, for which Thunder Wave is often a death sentence. Alternatively, if one really needs to cripple Alakazam, Starmie, or Chansey for a teammate, Hypno's strong Psychic will most often force players to expose one of those three targets to its Thunder Wave, which can be very useful for specific teammates trying to break through them. Ultimately, though, this is no different from Alakazam's ability to force Thunder Wave onto opposing special sponges, and Alakazam outclasses Hypno in most scenarios, so make sure you have further reasons to select Hypno&mdash;such as Hypnosis&mdash;if your primary goal is to paralyze opposing special sponges.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypno can run a moveset of Hypnosis / Thunder Wave / Reflect / Rest, preferably as a lead. As silly as it looks, it It (it's rby, plenty of things look silly to the less knowledgeable) allows Hypno to land its Hypnosis, then Thunder Wave paralyze any potential switch-ins, and then simply sit in place with Reflect and Rest until the opponent gives in and puts it to sleep, activating Sleep Clause to keep all its teammates safe. However, should this plan not come to fruition, this set can become entirely useless. Other Reflect + Rest sets can also exist, as these moves make Hypno generally hard to take down, but it will generally struggle with making progress regardless due to Hypno's lackluster offense.

Submission allows Hypno to break through Chansey with some luck between full paralysis and critical hits. However, it is pretty much useless against every other Pokemon in the tier otherwise, and the recoil will leave Hypno significantly weakened even if it cripples or KOes Chansey. Nevertheless, due to Chansey's omnipresence, it can be viable to lure it in and break through it with some consistency.

Hypno has access to Meditate, Body Slam, and Hyper Beam, which, (comma) in conjunction with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, can theoretically help it break through its Psychic-type walls, but in practice it takes far too long to set up and will usually get KOed before dealing any significant damage. If it elects to run just Meditate + Body Slam or Hyper Beam + Reflect + Rest, then it won't be KOed too quickly, but it also won't be able to break through a vast number of foes, ranging from Gengar to Rhydon to including Gengar, Rhydon, and Reflect Snorlax. Headbutt's 30% flinch chance can give Hypno odds to break through foes in the long run, but it comes at the cost of Base Power.

Hypno can use Toxic in conjunction with Rest to try and defeat its Psychic-type walls through extremely passive stalling, something that standard Hypno cannot achieve by any other means. However, Toxic has proven to be a generally unsuccessful strategy at high level RBY OU play, with only occasional appearances and no results to write home about.

Counter can be used to try and catch Snorlax and Tauros, but Hypno already struggles for moveslots, and spending one for Counter generally leaves it much less useful in the long term, banking almost its entire utility on the ability to land one Counter.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Psychic-types with Recover**: Starmie and Alakazam are entirely unthreatened by Hypno's entire movepool bar Hypnosis. Hypno is able to cripple them with Thunder Wave, but it is pretty much forced to switch out immediately after, as it has no prospects in a one-on-one matchup without an extremely unlikely run of Psychic Special drops.

**Psychic-types with Rest**: While they do not handle Hypno quite as comfortably as Psychic-types with Recover, Rest Jynx, Slowbro, (comma) and Exeggutor can generally stop it from making progress, especially if Hypno lacks Seismic Toss. Because Hypno will force them into passivity for a few turns, they are not quite as efficient as other checks. Slowbro deserves a special mention due to its ability to set up with Amnesia against Hypno.

**Chansey**: While it has to respect the potential for Submission, Chansey is entirely happy to face off against any other Hypno set and simply outlast it, and even when Hypno is running Submission, misses and recoil can often lead to its demise regardless.

**Physical Attackers**: While not as frail as other Psychic-types in the tier, Hypno is still not physically bulky enough to shrug off attacks from the likes of Snorlax, Rhydon, and Tauros, unless it is running the rare Reflect. All of these Pokemon can trade hits favorably against Hypno, especially if it ever attempts to use Rest.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Amaranth, 265630]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [EB0LA, 423005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [, ]]

 

[Amaranth]

Implemented and upload ready

 

[Plague von Karma]

Uploaded!