-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
I Can't See Anything In This Sandstorm
- Thread starter Sciztar
- Start date
hey there , got your pm :)
Nice trick room team , even though it's very hard to build a competitive one at the current format , the excadrill format was the best period to try trick room but currently , with volt-turn everywhere it's very hard to do so , so congrats for that at least :) .
Ok i can't stop myself from noticing your huge weakness to SD scizor , and even the bander , once trick room ends , it poses a huge pressure since your TR mons are weak to him (this is why i had jellicent in my TR team ) , yes reuniclus can lure him but a caareful opponent won't be fooled that easily .
I really don't know how to fix this without making you weak to volt turn herp derp , since gastrodon is in my opinion too important for the team .
heatran replacing the terakion would be nice actually :) .
good luck with the team mate .
Nice trick room team , even though it's very hard to build a competitive one at the current format , the excadrill format was the best period to try trick room but currently , with volt-turn everywhere it's very hard to do so , so congrats for that at least :) .
Ok i can't stop myself from noticing your huge weakness to SD scizor , and even the bander , once trick room ends , it poses a huge pressure since your TR mons are weak to him (this is why i had jellicent in my TR team ) , yes reuniclus can lure him but a caareful opponent won't be fooled that easily .
I really don't know how to fix this without making you weak to volt turn herp derp , since gastrodon is in my opinion too important for the team .
heatran replacing the terakion would be nice actually :) .
good luck with the team mate .
I feel as if Tyranitar is your weak link. Besides the fact that you only have two Trick Roomers, only one of them has the offensive prowess to follow through. For this reason, I think you should replace Tyranitar with someone a little bit more viable in terms of supporting the team both offensively and defensively. I suggest Trick Room Chandelure:
@ Leftovers / Air Balloon | Flash Fire
Quiet Nature | 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 SpA
~ Trick Room
~ Shadow Ball
~ Fire Blast
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Energy Ball
Trick Room is extremely valuable especially when considering the fact that only two of your Pokemon have it. Shadow Ball + Fire Blast take care of Physical walls who stop Terrakion after Trick Room has ended as well as Scizor and other Steels. Your last slot is to counter opposing weather. You used Tyranitar as anti-weather; however, his Sand Stream cuts the life of Dragonite who is your primary sweeper along with Stealth Rock and incoming damage that Dragonite will inevitably take. Chandelure also provides a Dark type weakness that can be used on Terrakion to provide a +1 Attack boost.
Quiet Nature | 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 SpA
~ Trick Room
~ Shadow Ball
~ Fire Blast
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Energy Ball
Trick Room is extremely valuable especially when considering the fact that only two of your Pokemon have it. Shadow Ball + Fire Blast take care of Physical walls who stop Terrakion after Trick Room has ended as well as Scizor and other Steels. Your last slot is to counter opposing weather. You used Tyranitar as anti-weather; however, his Sand Stream cuts the life of Dragonite who is your primary sweeper along with Stealth Rock and incoming damage that Dragonite will inevitably take. Chandelure also provides a Dark type weakness that can be used on Terrakion to provide a +1 Attack boost.
Dragonite Bander? I don't understand what you just said! Do you mean add a Choice Band? Also are you trying to say add Slowbro to the team to stop Tyranitar? Other than the typing mistakes thanks for the comments :)
Your Dragonite set looks really weird- it has no STAB moves. On the whole, Ice Beam is inferior to Draco Meteor (or Dragon Pulse if you prefer). It is much more powerful against neutral threats thanks to STAB, and you still don't need to worry much about Gliscor switchins because they have poor Special Defence. It will still hit opposing Dragons nice and hard too. Also, Draognite is pretty mediocre without Multiscale- the surprise factor isn't really doing much anyway, since Flinches will be pretty rare in Trick Room. For this reason, I recommend Earthquake over Superpower and giving it Multiscale- you won't hit Chansey and Blissey as well, but they still won't like it, and Heatran and Magnezone will still gets decimated. Also, on Bronzong, Gyro Ball becomes weaker under Trick Room, iirc. I'd suggest giving it a support move like Toxic in its place, or if you still want an attacking move, Earthquake or Iron Head should do the trick. Other than those few things, nice team!
Yea, I'm currently redoing Dragonite's set around. So I'm testing out sone new moves and see how that helps. I'll think about Earthquake thought. Thanks for the rate.
Yeah I know, b/c Dragonite's Best STAB moves are bad in Trick Room. Actually Ice Beam on Dragonite hits a lot more Pokemon super effectively than Dragon Pulse would. I'm currently testing out other moves for Dragonite, but I'm sure I'm going to keep BoltBeam and switch around Superpower since, Tyranitar and Terrakion both have a Fighting move that gets rid of Chansey and Blissey. Thats why I need some help on some suggestions on different moves on Dragonite and Tyranitar!
On Bronzong, I never had Gyro Ball on him while I was on PO an Wifi Battles I just never changed it on the Thread, but yeh Gyro Ball was a waste of move. I put Rock Slide on Bronzong to help stop Volcanora from setting up on him.
Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.
Hello there !
I see many problems in your team. The fact is that you are trying to build it thinking about defense. Then I must say that defensive Trick room are " useless ". I will give some exemple:
Bronzong want to set up Trick room. ok. Then he can't hit nothing wih no investment in Atk. You have to switch which means 3 turn left. Then here is the main problem ! Your sweepers depend to much on it and you only have 3 Turns... With SR, Wow, volturn and your bad coverage on 2 of your Pokemons... :(
When you build a Trick room you have to think about offense, and if you were your own opponent, which Pokemon will you send against the one you have on the field.For exemple, Imagine an Offensive Bronzong. Who counter him? Nattorei is the best Bronzong counter and the Pokemon which like TR the most in the oppenent team. Who the hell can deal with Nattorei in your team?
You have to do the same thing for each your 6 Pokémon and to put the appropriate moves. You have to do it thinking about the best played Pokemon in BW OU today.What can you do against Politoad? Who is your lead against a rain team? Gastrodon absorb water ok but it can't do nothing against Toxic.Same for Tyranitar, even Bronzong can't deal with him since you have not Gyroball.
Reuniclus with HP fire, why not? But against a Tyranitar or Heatran you will have to switch they will deal dammage and only Gastrodon can come in "safely".Gliscor is also a pain since you choose Psychoc. Then you will switch on Bronzong and he will PP waste you or switch in an appropriate counter and you will also do it and again and again but the fact is that you are playing a TR not a common team and your goal is to beat common team...
One more advice. Stop thinking TR sweeper = 0IV in speed. This is so true in 5th gen. You need to outspeed some Pokémons without TR with Dragonite for exemple otherwise rain will kill you.
Here is an exemple of Pokémon which can Help a lot.
Breloom with some EV in speed in order to outspeed Politoed and some other Pokémon. It outspeed Tyranitars and Landorus can't kill you. Then you can Spore and get a free Focus Punch against many SS team. He doesn't need TR as you can see. Now, under TR and if poison heal is activate you will be able to deal with Rotom-W, Terrakion and whoever you want with a grass weaknesses. Stone Edge says good by to Volca or Nite with Sr.
Think about your Dragonite, Maybe he wants to outspeed Politaod out of TR to deal a great amount of dammage...
And, I'd like to go back on Bronzong. 252ATK Bronzong with Gyro and SR does many OHKO. Zen headbut deal like 40% to many Pokemons such as Rotom-W and it deals a lot of dammage against Conkeldur...
GL HF and I hope I helped.
I see many problems in your team. The fact is that you are trying to build it thinking about defense. Then I must say that defensive Trick room are " useless ". I will give some exemple:
Bronzong want to set up Trick room. ok. Then he can't hit nothing wih no investment in Atk. You have to switch which means 3 turn left. Then here is the main problem ! Your sweepers depend to much on it and you only have 3 Turns... With SR, Wow, volturn and your bad coverage on 2 of your Pokemons... :(
When you build a Trick room you have to think about offense, and if you were your own opponent, which Pokemon will you send against the one you have on the field.For exemple, Imagine an Offensive Bronzong. Who counter him? Nattorei is the best Bronzong counter and the Pokemon which like TR the most in the oppenent team. Who the hell can deal with Nattorei in your team?
You have to do the same thing for each your 6 Pokémon and to put the appropriate moves. You have to do it thinking about the best played Pokemon in BW OU today.What can you do against Politoad? Who is your lead against a rain team? Gastrodon absorb water ok but it can't do nothing against Toxic.Same for Tyranitar, even Bronzong can't deal with him since you have not Gyroball.
Reuniclus with HP fire, why not? But against a Tyranitar or Heatran you will have to switch they will deal dammage and only Gastrodon can come in "safely".Gliscor is also a pain since you choose Psychoc. Then you will switch on Bronzong and he will PP waste you or switch in an appropriate counter and you will also do it and again and again but the fact is that you are playing a TR not a common team and your goal is to beat common team...
One more advice. Stop thinking TR sweeper = 0IV in speed. This is so true in 5th gen. You need to outspeed some Pokémons without TR with Dragonite for exemple otherwise rain will kill you.
Here is an exemple of Pokémon which can Help a lot.
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 238 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge
- Spore
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 238 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge
- Spore
Breloom with some EV in speed in order to outspeed Politoed and some other Pokémon. It outspeed Tyranitars and Landorus can't kill you. Then you can Spore and get a free Focus Punch against many SS team. He doesn't need TR as you can see. Now, under TR and if poison heal is activate you will be able to deal with Rotom-W, Terrakion and whoever you want with a grass weaknesses. Stone Edge says good by to Volca or Nite with Sr.
Think about your Dragonite, Maybe he wants to outspeed Politaod out of TR to deal a great amount of dammage...
And, I'd like to go back on Bronzong. 252ATK Bronzong with Gyro and SR does many OHKO. Zen headbut deal like 40% to many Pokemons such as Rotom-W and it deals a lot of dammage against Conkeldur...
GL HF and I hope I helped.
I see what you are saying about Bronzong. I total forgot about making my team offensive. B/c I was trying to make Bronzong as a reliable Trick roomer , but he was completely useless. I will greatly consider your suggestion on making Bronzong and offensive Trick Roomer. Now if I make Bronzong offensive, where will the Entry Hazards come in at? Will I have a slot available on Bronzong for Stealth Rock?
Now with Breloom, you were suggesting. I have a question, are you suggesting I switch Dragonite out for Breloom? Dragonite has been doing well on the team, but I think I believe where you are going with Breloom. He will be my rain counter, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn counter. B/c the Ev Spread you recommended is it suppose to function outside of Trick Room, b/c 20 speed won't be outspending anything really.
I hope I got what your saying right. I really appreciate the suggestions man.
Got your PM, I'd be glad to rate :)
Okay, so some things I'd like to say.
♦ Don't use Offensive TR 'Zong. Do like NWO suggested and try out Porygon2. Brongzong really just doesn't have the power no coverage.
♦ You're questioning you Gastrodon EVs. Well ask yourself, am I offensive? What's my main role? Am I a pivot? If you attack a lot, then use your current spread. If you find yourself absorbing attacks more, then use a bulkier spread. I might suggest the rare Specs Gastrodon for you, only because he seems to act like an offensive pivot.
♦ Don't use that Dragonite. He doesn't seem to do much and can't really damage without STAB. Try a more Physical Dragonite. Try Outrage / Extremespeed / Fire Punch / Earthquake with 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD. If Outrage annoys use because it locks you in use Dragon Claw.
♦Use 0 Spe EVs on all your TR abusing Pokemon! You also leave out an extra 4 EVs on a quite a few Pokemon, why not use them?
Other than that other people covered most of your troubles. Good luck in your endeavors!
Okay, so some things I'd like to say.
♦ Don't use Offensive TR 'Zong. Do like NWO suggested and try out Porygon2. Brongzong really just doesn't have the power no coverage.
♦ You're questioning you Gastrodon EVs. Well ask yourself, am I offensive? What's my main role? Am I a pivot? If you attack a lot, then use your current spread. If you find yourself absorbing attacks more, then use a bulkier spread. I might suggest the rare Specs Gastrodon for you, only because he seems to act like an offensive pivot.
♦ Don't use that Dragonite. He doesn't seem to do much and can't really damage without STAB. Try a more Physical Dragonite. Try Outrage / Extremespeed / Fire Punch / Earthquake with 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD. If Outrage annoys use because it locks you in use Dragon Claw.
♦Use 0 Spe EVs on all your TR abusing Pokemon! You also leave out an extra 4 EVs on a quite a few Pokemon, why not use them?
Other than that other people covered most of your troubles. Good luck in your endeavors!
Hey thanks for the Rate. Now the problem I had with Porygon2, is that I lose a chance to set up Stealth Rock. Yes, it does have more power than Bronzong, but it added predictability, b/c with the Team Preview my team looks a little too much like a Trick Room Team. But If I add Porygon2 I can change Dragonite to an offensive sweeper. So thats a Plus, b/c Dragonite's was struggling. I always enjoyed using Magic Coat on Porygon2 as it acts like Magic Bounce. But Since Porygon2 will be used on a Sandstorm Team. I believe Recover is needed.
Yeah I have been playing with Dragonite's Moves around, b/c Thunderbolt was stupid on him. He never got a KO with it and struggled to 2HKO some pokemon. I'll give your Dragonite a test, but under Trick Room you don't want to be locked into one move and be walled by a steel type.
ON Gastrodon, I use him just to get a +1 boost in Special Attack and spam either Earth Power or Surf. So the choice specs set is optional but I don't like to be locked into ONE move but I'll give fit a try.
The Evs, I have them correct on PO and in my game, I'm just to lazy to correct the EVS. But thanks for that
Thanks again for the rate, I really appreciate it.
Team Changes and Proposals
- Okay I dropped Dragonite and replaced him for the Physical Sweeper Metagross.
- I have added Hiddden Power Grass onto Gastrodon to stop Rotom-W.
- I'm still testing out Porygon2 over Bronzong, I'm not liking him on a Sandstorm team, b/c it adds a fighting weakness.
- I'm thinking about dropping Energy Ball and replacing with either Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fighting.
- Since I have 3 pokemon weak to Landorus's Earthquake I'm thinking about finding a new (Late Game) Choice Scarfer? Can anyone think of any that could do well?
Threats
- But with the adding of Metagross to the Team I now have a weakness to Landorus any suggestions?
- I'm also having trouble with the No Guard Dynamic Punch Machamp and Life Orb Meinsho.
- I can't stand Jirachi, b/c its hard to 2HKO without it parahaxing me and spamming Iron Head.
- I don't believe I have a Breloom problem I think I just don't know how to beat him during a match.
Hmm cool team! I have never seen Sandstorm with Trick Room, but looking at this team it would seem viable. Now I heard that Sand Force Landorus is a nuisance to this team.
I recommend using Bulk Up Breloom over one of your Pokemon, due to the fact that it can 2HKO Landorus with Seed Bomb, while Landorus fails to 2hKO with HP Ice. Latios and Starmie can be used for Fast Threats to also Take on Landorus after TR dies
Just my two cents
I recommend using Bulk Up Breloom over one of your Pokemon, due to the fact that it can 2HKO Landorus with Seed Bomb, while Landorus fails to 2hKO with HP Ice. Latios and Starmie can be used for Fast Threats to also Take on Landorus after TR dies
Just my two cents
Now that you have Hidden Power Grass on Gastrodon, you can drop Energy Ball on Reuniclus and add Focus Blast. B/c you are forced to switch out with Tyranitar b/c Energy Ball does little damage to most Sassy Tyranitar. B/c you are only Swampert, Gastrodon, and Rotom-W hard, but you have a check to them with Gastrodon.
You don't need Shadow Ball b/c you have Tyranitar to dispose of Psychic and ghost type with it's STAB Crunch.
That's all I have to say, your team is really good. Just watch out for Landorus.
You don't need Shadow Ball b/c you have Tyranitar to dispose of Psychic and ghost type with it's STAB Crunch.
That's all I have to say, your team is really good. Just watch out for Landorus.
Hey there! This is a really impressive and a creative TR that abuses Sand´s full potential. My only suggestion is to replace Energy Ball on Reuniclus for Focus Blast. With HP Grass on Gastrodon, he becomes the ultimate counter to Rotom-W. I believe that murdering those Chople-less Tyranitars with Focus Blast is more important than reliability with HP Fight where it fails to OHKO anyways.
My other suggestion is to use Gyro Ball and Macho Brace on Bronzong instead of Life Orb and Rock Slide. Gyro Ball´s base 150 Power is what makes Bronzong a fearsome sweeper under Trick Room, while Rock Slide fails to give him offensive power. Besides, under Sand Terrakion is perfectly able to take on Volcarona all day long and OHKO with Stone Edge. If you feel unsure about Stone Edge´s crappy accuracy, you could run Rock Slide over Earthquake. Earthquake is mainly a filler move on Scarfed Terrakion and you already hit hard Sun Teams with STAB Rock moves.
My other suggestion is to use Gyro Ball and Macho Brace on Bronzong instead of Life Orb and Rock Slide. Gyro Ball´s base 150 Power is what makes Bronzong a fearsome sweeper under Trick Room, while Rock Slide fails to give him offensive power. Besides, under Sand Terrakion is perfectly able to take on Volcarona all day long and OHKO with Stone Edge. If you feel unsure about Stone Edge´s crappy accuracy, you could run Rock Slide over Earthquake. Earthquake is mainly a filler move on Scarfed Terrakion and you already hit hard Sun Teams with STAB Rock moves.
Hey thanks for the suggestion @Motagua. I have changed Rankurusu's Energy Ball for Focus Blast, since I have Hidden Power Grass on Gastrodon its a little redundant to have to moves that hit the same pokemon. B/c I was missing out on Tyranitar's and other pokemon weak to fighting type move.
I have decided to drop Rock Slide on Bronzong for Gyro Ball. Rock Slide wasn't hitting hard enough anyway on Bronzong. And having Life Orb isn't to smart for a Pokemon that sets up Trick Room.
Now on Terrakion, I know the that Earthquake is a filler but I just don't think that two Rock Type moves is very smart b/c Landorus and GLiscor will still wall me. I will just stick to Earthquake thanks though.
I really appreciate your opinions and comments about my Sandstorm Trick Room. Anybody have suggestions or concerns about my team?
Quite a gutsy player to be playing around with TR, Sciztar :) Anyways, as you have highlighted on your intro, TR is an incredibly offensive style. TTar and Reuniclus provides some hard offense for this team that is hard to absorb by the opponent. However, your current Metagross is too easily walled atm to be an efficient TR sweeper. If you want to keep Metagross go equip it Life Orb and replace Hammer Arm and Ice Punch for Zen Headbutt and HP Fire. With a simple LO boost, it's scoring an OHKO on Forretress and Scizor and a 2HKO on Skarmory and Ferrothorn with HP Fire (after SR). Zen Headbutt offers neutral coverage that increases Metagross's chance to 2HKO bulky Water-types, such as Rotom-W and Politoed. Slowbro will still be trouble, but it's rather uncommon, and you can always switch to Gastrodon.
Metagross @ Life Orb
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA
Brave Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire
However, you may also want to consider other TR sweepers in place of Metagross. Thick Club Marowak and Life Orb Rhyperior are such options. Marowak boasts 568 Atk with Thick Club; making it a very deadly monster under TR. LO Rhyperior is also reaching 540 Atk with LO, and it has STAB Stone Edge and Megahorn to complement its powerful Earthquake. Rhyperior is naturally bulkier than Marowak and receives special defense boost from Sand, but it is inflicted by LO recoil and exploitable weaknesses. They may seem that they overlap with TTar, but they have completely different offensive coverage and raw power.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Swords Dance
Rhyperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail / Megahorn
- Swords Dance
NOTE: You may run both Megahorn and Aqua Tail in place of Swords Dance. Aqua Tail is useful for Gliscor and Hippowdon, whereas Megahorn comes in handy against Tangrowth and Slowbro
It's not easy to bring in these Trick Room Sweepers in, though. This is where, Explosion or Hypnosis over Earthquake on Bronzong would really help. Explosion is the most helpful, since it saves an extra turn that would have been used for switching Bronzong out. Even more, it does significant damage to the opponent, softening up the defense for the TR sweeper. Hypnosis is a little riskier, since it could miss, and you burn an additional turn of sleep / TR by switching Bronzong out. However, sleep is a crucial status affliction that may come in handy outside of the context I just described.
This does not mean that Bronzong needs to Explode on its very first set up of Trick Room. Ideally, Bronzong can set up TR more than once, only exploding late-game when it's running low in health and setting up TR for the very last time. Bronzong would then be replaced by your adept TR sweepers to seal the match.
As you can see, Bronzong is more of a defensive pivot with an important utility of setting the stage for your TR sweeper(s). Thus, I would revert it back to a more defensive spread holding Leftovers. You are not expecting to sweep with Bronzong, so don't try. 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD, Sassy Nature lets it survive a +2 LO HP Fire from Venusaur and proceed to set up Trick Room. It makes Bronzong a more solid switch-in to Virizion's Focus Blast, Tornadus's Hurricane, Gengar's Shadow Ball, and other resisted / neutral hits.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Gyro Ball
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
For your weakness in Fighting-types, you may want to consider changing your Scarfer. Scarf Landorus may be a better fit for this team. It does not forfeit momentum, thanks to U-turn, and it can abuse Tyranitar's Sand for a boosted EQ / Stone-Edge. Landorus has decent bulk and Fighting resistance to switch into Mienshao's HJK, for instance, and check it with Sand Force Earthquake (or U-turn out of its switch-in). It will also provide you a more solid way to threaten Jirachi, while still checking Volcarona.
Summary
hope this helped. have fun with this team, Sciztar.
Metagross @ Life Orb
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA
Brave Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire
Marowak @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Swords Dance
Rhyperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail / Megahorn
- Swords Dance
NOTE: You may run both Megahorn and Aqua Tail in place of Swords Dance. Aqua Tail is useful for Gliscor and Hippowdon, whereas Megahorn comes in handy against Tangrowth and Slowbro
This does not mean that Bronzong needs to Explode on its very first set up of Trick Room. Ideally, Bronzong can set up TR more than once, only exploding late-game when it's running low in health and setting up TR for the very last time. Bronzong would then be replaced by your adept TR sweepers to seal the match.
As you can see, Bronzong is more of a defensive pivot with an important utility of setting the stage for your TR sweeper(s). Thus, I would revert it back to a more defensive spread holding Leftovers. You are not expecting to sweep with Bronzong, so don't try. 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD, Sassy Nature lets it survive a +2 LO HP Fire from Venusaur and proceed to set up Trick Room. It makes Bronzong a more solid switch-in to Virizion's Focus Blast, Tornadus's Hurricane, Gengar's Shadow Ball, and other resisted / neutral hits.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Gyro Ball
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
Summary
- Plan A: Equip Metagross with Life Orb; HP Fire & Zen Headbutt > Earthquake & Ice Punch
- Plan B: Marowak or Rhyperior > Metagross
- A specially defensive set on Bronzong, with Explosion > Earthquake
- Scarf Landorus > Scarf Terrakion
hope this helped. have fun with this team, Sciztar.
Quite a gutsy player to be playing around with TR, Sciztar :) Anyways, as you have highlighted on your intro, TR is an incredibly offensive style. TTar and Reuniclus provides some hard offense for this team that is hard to absorb by the opponent. However, your current Metagross is too easily walled atm to be an efficient TR sweeper. If you want to keep Metagross go equip it Life Orb and replace Hammer Arm and Ice Punch for Zen Headbutt and HP Fire. With a simple LO boost, it's scoring an OHKO on Forretress and Scizor and a 2HKO on Skarmory and Ferrothorn with HP Fire (after SR). Zen Headbutt offers neutral coverage that increases Metagross's chance to 2HKO bulky Water-types, such as Rotom-W and Politoed. Slowbro will still be trouble, but it's rather uncommon, and you can always switch to Gastrodon.
However, you may also want to consider other TR sweepers in place of Metagross. Thick Club Marowak and Life Orb Rhyperior are such options. Marowak boasts 568 Atk with Thick Club; making it a very deadly monster under TR. LO Rhyperior is also reaching 540 Atk with LO, and it has STAB Stone Edge and Megahorn to complement its powerful Earthquake. Rhyperior is naturally bulkier than Marowak and receives special defense boost from Sand, but it is inflicted by LO recoil and exploitable weaknesses. They may seem that they overlap with TTar, but they have completely different offensive coverage and raw power.
Metagross @ Life Orb
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA
Brave Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire
It's not easy to bring in these Trick Room Sweepers in, though. This is where, Explosion or Hypnosis over Earthquake on Bronzong would really help. Explosion is the most helpful, since it saves an extra turn that would have been used for switching Bronzong out. Even more, it does significant damage to the opponent, softening up the defense for the TR sweeper. Hypnosis is a little riskier, since it could miss, and you burn an additional turn of sleep / TR by switching Bronzong out. However, sleep is a crucial status affliction that may come in handy outside of the context I just described.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Swords Dance
Rhyperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave or Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail / Megahorn
- Swords Dance
NOTE: You may run both Megahorn and Aqua Tail in place of Swords Dance. Aqua Tail is useful for Gliscor and Hippowdon, whereas Megahorn comes in handy against Tangrowth and Slowbro
This does not mean that Bronzong needs to Explode on its very first set up of Trick Room. Ideally, Bronzong can set up TR more than once, only exploding late-game when it's running low in health and setting up TR for the very last time. Bronzong would the be replaced by your adept TR sweepers to seal the match.
As you can see, Bronzong is more of a defensive pivot with an important utility of setting the stage for your TR sweeper(s). Thus, I would revert it back to a more defensive spread holding Leftovers. You are not expecting to sweep with Bronzong, so don't try. 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD, Sassy Nature lets it survive a +2 LO HP Fire from Venusaur and proceed to set up Trick Room. It makes Bronzong a more solid switch-in to Virizion's Focus Blast, Tornadus's Hurricane, Gengar's Shadow Ball, and other resisted / neutral hits.
For your weakness in Fighting-types, you may want to consider changing your Scarfer. Scarf Landorus may be a better fit for this team. It does not forfeit momentum, thanks to U-turn, and it can abuse Tyranitar's Sand for a boosted EQ / Stone-Edge. Landorus has decent bulk and Fighting resistance to switch into Mienshao's HJK, for instance, and check it with Sand Force Earthquake (or U-turn out of its switch-in). It will also provide you a more solid way to threaten Jirachi, while still checking Volcarona.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Gyro Ball
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
Summary
hope this helped. have fun with this team, Sciztar.
- Plan A: Equip Metagross with Life Orb; HP Fire & Zen Headbutt > Earthquake & Ice Punch
- Plan B: Marowak or Rhyperior > Metagross
- A specially defensive set on Bronzong, with Explosion > Earthquake
- Scarf Landorus > Scarf Terrakion
Thanks Pocket for the rate, I really appreciate it.
1) I really like your suggestion about changing my scarfer. B/c the ground weakness was a pain for me and Landorus sounds like the perfect canditate. I will test him out on PO this week.
2) Now Metagross, I have tried Hidden Power Fire out but I thought it was pointless b/c I have Hidden Power Fire on Reuniclus and Fire Blast on Tyranitar. But now that you mention it both Reuniclus and Tyranitar are threatened by Scizor's Two STAB moves and I need a pokemon that will help drag him out and KO him so Reuniclus and Tyranitar can effectivily sweeep.
- I have a question does the 20Sp Atk insure that I KO most versions of Scizors and 2HKO Ferrothorn and Skarmory?
- Next I will try out Zen Headbutt over Hammer Arm for two STAB moves on MEtagross, so I can hit the fighting type pokemon.
- Marowak, was also the same with Rhyperior. They both sound good on paper and with 568 Attack thats gret but with Trick Rotom-W and others once it loses it Thick Club its usless b/c now I will have to try and use Swords Dance just to try and get its attack back up. Like what you said with Metagross, both Rhyperior and Marowk are completely walled byh Slowbro unless it gets a Swords Dance but its threaten by the burn from Scald. I'll try him out but like Rhyperior I don't think he will stay on the team.
- Now you suggested I go back to a defensive Bronzong, it has its pros and cons as well. I already told you the con of defensive Bronzong it doesn't have an offensive presence on the team. The pro is a defensive presence on the tem which is neede on every team no matter what it is. Now I don't like Explosion as hits power got dropped from Gen IV, and I don't like to lose one of Pokemon that sets up Trick Room. I would prefer Hypnosis as it might get a sleep turn but I might not. So I will once again retry a defensive Bronzong
It doesn't matter if Reuniclus has HP Fire for Scizor... Metagross still needs HP Fire to not be walled by Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. And yes, the 20 SpA EVs allow Metagross to 2HKO Skarmory and Forretress without Rocks, and a 2HKO on the more specially defensive Ferrothorn with Rocks. You could give it less SpA if you desire.
The point of Explosion on Bronzong is not its power, but the ability to switch into your TR sweeper unscathed. Bronzong is not your main TR sweeper - it's merely setting up TR for TTar / Metagross / etc. Also I would like you to bring your attention back to this:
So by the time you are exploding, Bronzong is as good as dead anyways. I highly recommend trying Explosion out.
The point of Explosion on Bronzong is not its power, but the ability to switch into your TR sweeper unscathed. Bronzong is not your main TR sweeper - it's merely setting up TR for TTar / Metagross / etc. Also I would like you to bring your attention back to this:
So by the time you are exploding, Bronzong is as good as dead anyways. I highly recommend trying Explosion out.
Updates to the Team
1) I have switched out Choice Scarf Terrakion for a Choice Scarf LAndorus, for more Sand abuse power and a better late game sweeper thanks to Pocket.
2)I have added Hidden Power Fire on Metagross thanks to Pocket so I won't be walled by the steel types (Scizor, Skarmory, etc) that are annoying who can wall Metagross.
3) I'm still testing out the other Trick Room sweepers Marowak and Rhyperior that Pocket suggested.
4) I have dropped Energy Ball on Reuniclus for Focus Blast to hit Steel types that are weak to fighting type moves.