I got's me a shiny AP Tauros and by Jove I'm gonna use it!

Inconspicuosaurus

Inconspicuosaurus

Yeah, as you can probably tell by the title, I recently came into possesion of a Shiny Anger-Point Tauros. So I thought to myself "Hmm, Anger-Point, hey. Let's see what ingenious things I can do with that," and this is the result. My problem is: Is it any good? Once set up, this combo can anhilate pretty much anything but is it really viable? Your views please.
NB: This team is for double battles.

At a glance:
Mypwnsometeamwithshinytaurostrai-1.png

Lol, editted the trainer myself.

Tauros/Minos +Salac Berry
[Anger Point] Adamant
> Earthquake
> Rock Slide
> Return
> Substitute
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Standard sweeper, might swap salac for choice band as I'm doubting whether he'll take a 16th hit without dying from the opponents other pokemon's attack.

Honchkrow/Merlin +Leftovers
[Super Luck] Jolly
> Heat Wave
> Night Slash
> Sky Attack
> Superpower
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Sky Attack and Night Slash hit 50% critical with Super Luck and F-energy. Also, critical pursuits really hurt. Heat Wave for type coverage.

Scizor/The Termitator +Focus Sash
[Technician] Careful
> Focus Energy
> Agility
> Baton Pass
> Metal Claw
204 Defense, 204 Sp. Defense, 100 Attack
Sets up Honch or Kingdra with agility and Focus Energy. Metal Claw has base 75 with technician and with the possible attack boost is just a useful STAB.

Mr. Mime/Wally +Leftovers
[Filter] Bold
> Reflect
> Substitute
> Baton Pass
> Thunderbolt
204 Defense, 204 Sp. Defense, 100 Sp. Attack
Standard wall with sub-passing possibilities. Focus Blast is there to cover the glaring ice weakness the team had.

Mantine/?+Scope Lens
[Water Absorb] Modest/Calm
> HydroPump
> Ice Beam
> Bullet seed
> Helping Hand
252 HP, 128 Defense, 128 Sp. Attack
Activates Tauros' Anger Point with Bullet seed and supports with HH.

Kingdra/Nessie +Choice Specs
[Sniper] Timid
> Draco Meteor
> Surf
> Flash Cannon
> Signal Beam
252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Specs sweeper, no further explanation needed.

The basic point being at first to set up a focus energy (and possibly an agility) for Mantine with Scizor, and a sub for Tauros with Mr.Mime. Then, baton pass in Manty and Tauros. Mantine Bullet Seeds Tauros (50% flinch rate with f-energy and Scope Lens) which is weak enough to hopefully not break the sub (haven't worked this out properly yet but it should be fine, especially if Mime has time to set up a reflect). After that, Tauros is free to sweep and Mantine can help him out with HH, etc.
Alternatively, I can pass f-energy to Kingdra for some possible Sniper damage (he functions fine as a sweeper without the crit boost but it can only help) or with a sub to Honch for some mean Sky Attack and Night Slash critical hits.

Threat list (what I might come up against and moves/strartegies to counter):
Azelf: Honch's Night Slash, Kingdra's Signal Beam.
Breloom: Honch with a sub from Mr. Mime can block Spore and use Sky Attack.
Celebi: Mantine's Ice Beam, Honchkrow's Night Slash, Sky Attack and Heat Wave.
Dugtrio: Kingdra's Surf, Mantine's HPump.
Electrivire: Tauros' EQ, Scizor stands up well against him with it's unexpected defense boost to counter Fire Punch.
Empoleon: Mr. Mime's Thunderbolt
Gliscor: Mantine's Ice Beam.
Gyrados: Mantine's Ice Beam, Mr. Mime's T-bolt.
Heatran: Tauros' EQ.
Infernape: Kingdra's Surf, Tauros' EQ, Mantine's HydroPump.
Jirachi: Honch's Heat Wave.
Kingdra: My own Kingdra's Dragon Pulse, Mr. Mime's T-bolt.
Latias: Kdra's Dragon Pulse, Honch's Night Slash, Mantine's Ice Beam.
Lucario: Tauros' EQ, Honchkrow's Heat Wave.
Machamp: One of Honch's jobs is to dispatch him before he KOs Tauros.
Magnezone: Tauros' EQ or Honch's Superpower and Heatwave if he's Risen already.
Mammoswine: Scizor's Metal Claw, Honch's Superpower and Heat Wave, Kingdra's Flash Cannon.
Metagross: Tauros' EQ, Honch's Heat Wave.
Ninjask: Honch's Heat Wave, Mantine's Ice Beam.
Porygon-Z: Honch's Superpower.
Rhyperior: Tauros' EQ, Kdra's Surf, Mantine's Ice Beam.
Roserade: Tauros' Zen Headbut, Mantine's Ice Beam, Honch's Sky Attack.
Salamence: Mantine's Ice Beam, Kdra's Dragon Pulse, Tauros' Stone Edge.
Scizor: Honch's Heat Wave.
Snorlax: Honch's Superpower or beat down with crits.
Starmie: Honch's Night Slash.
Suicune: Mr. Mime's Thunderbolt.
Tyranitar: Mantine's Hydropump, Kingdra's Surf and Signal Beam, Tauros' EQ.
Weavile: Kingdra's Signal Beam and Flash Cannon, Scizor's Metal Claw.
Yanmega: Honch's Heat Wave, Mantine's Ice Beam
Zapdos: Tauros' Stone Edge.
(NB: relpace Dragon Pulse with Draco Meteor, I couldn't be bothered to change them all.)

Yeah, so do you guys think it's too haxy or would it be alright? (No flaming just coz you're jealous, alright? :D)
 
I like the idea you're going at here, but there are some problems. Sky Attack takes 2 turns to work, so really isn't that great. I would run Drill Peck over that. Since Air Cutter already brings up AP, I would sub out Night Slash for either Superpower or Heat Wave.

On Scizor, if this is a Platinum team, use Bullet Punch instead of Metal Claw. Otherwise, use Iron Head.

Kingdra wants Draco Meteor>> Dragon Pulse for the raw power factor.

Since Infernape runs through this, I would run a CM Cune somewhere on the team. Preferable>> Mr. Mime. If you still want the SubPass, Togekiss can do a good job: Roost/Sub/Pass/Air Slash.
 
Not really a full rate, but if you want to use Anger Point, you should swap Zen Headbutt for Substitute, so you can take Honchkrow hits and activate Anger Point +salac berry.
Also, Rock Slide >>> Stone Edge, because with the +6 atk and +1 speed, hitting both opponents is better (the acc and flinch rate helps too).
Oh, and Scope Lens >> Leftovers.It's not like honchkrow will be surviving a lot of hits anytime soon.
 
Sc4rfCh0mp said:
I like the idea you're going at here, but there are some problems. Sky Attack takes 2 turns to work, so really isn't that great. I would run Drill Peck over that.

I know the two-turns thing is a pain, but let me explain my reasoning:
1. It'll probably have a sub if I'm using Sky Attack, so I can spare a turn,
2. The high crit rate really does make up for losing that turn (one 280 base power sky attack >> two 80 power drill pecks),
3. It also has a high flinch rate which is exascerbated by Togekiss' SG if it happens to be out.

Since Air Cutter already brings up AP, I would sub out Night Slash for either Superpower or Heat Wave.

Night slash is for a reliable stab and the high crit rate, I see the merit of Superpower, but Heat Wave on a physical sweeper?

On Scizor, if this is a Platinum team, use Bullet Punch instead of Metal Claw. Otherwise, use Iron Head.

Hmm, I suppose the lack of speed EVs could make BP more preferable, but the passable attack raise (chance increased by SG again) and the higher power of Metal Claw are swaying me.

Kingdra wants Draco Meteor>> Dragon Pulse for the raw power factor.

True, consider it changed.

Since Infernape runs through this, I would run a CM Cune somewhere on the team. Preferable>> Mr. Mime. If you still want the SubPass, Togekiss can do a good job: Roost/Sub/Pass/Air Slash.

I'm fairly certain that Kingdra can handle Infernape, and I have grown rather attached to ol' Wally (that's my Mr.Mime XD). Also, I can't switch the Baton Pass+Sub set to Togekiss because really I need his Charge Beam and Flamethrower for type coverage.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

Rurushu said:
Not really a full rate, but if you want to use Anger Point, you should swap Zen Headbutt for Substitute, so you can take Honchkrow hits and activate Anger Point +salac berry.

Yeah... I've been thinking about that for a while now, I think I will change that, thanks.

Also, Rock Slide >>> Stone Edge, because with the +6 atk and +1 speed, hitting both opponents is better (the acc and flinch rate helps too).

Good idea, I'll change that right away.

Oh, and Scope Lens >> Leftovers.It's not like honchkrow will be surviving a lot of hits anytime soon.

Actually, as long as Honch is passed a Focus Energy, the Scope Lens can't boost its Crit Ratio any more (50% -Lvl. 5- is the max). Also, doesn't the holder have to move second for SL to work? Honchkrow's not that slow, especially with agility.
Click to expand...


Thanks, both of you.
 
At a quick glance, your team has one big problem: Since Air Cutter targets both opponents, you can't hit Tauros with it. Besides, if you really want to crit Tauros, you don't need a move with a high crit-rate. You need a move that hits 2-5 times. Bullet Seed would be my recommendation because it has 100 base accuracy, only 10 base power, and a bunch of Pokémon with low Attack stats that learn it.

Check it out: with Focus Energy and Super Luck, Honchkrow would crit with Night Slash only 50% of the time and do a huge amount of damage in the process. With Focus Energy and a Scope Lens, a Pokemon without Super Luck with Bullet Seed has a 68.1% chance to crit with at least one hit. Not only that, but instead of getting hit with a 140-power attack (Night Slash after crit), your Tauros gets hit with 2 to 5 10-power attacks, only one of which needs to deal critical damage.

If you're willing to risk using a Cloyster with Skill Link and Icicle Spear, you'll have a 76.3% chance to crit with only Focus Energy (without Scope Lens), or a 86.8% chance to crit with Focus Energy and a Scope Lens. That'll deal quite a bit more damage to Tauros, though, so I'd probably go with Bullet Seed.

As for your Bullet Seed user, I'd go with this:

dpffa226.png

Mantine
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Bullet Seed
- Helping Hand
Nature: Modest/Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 128 Defense, 128 SpAtk
Ability: Swift Swim (unless you want to include some Surf users on the team)
Item: Scope Lens

Here is a fairly durable support Pokémon that will do practically no damage with its un-STABbed 10-power Bullet Seed coming off of its pitiful penalized base-40 Attack stat. It has a powerful STAB attack in Hydro Pump, Icy Wind to slow down anything that outspeeds Tauros, and Helping Hand to give Tauros (and your other Pokémon) an additional 50% boost on their attacks. It also avoids Tauros's Earthquakes with its Flying type.

Also, to answer your question above, Scope Lens always gives a one-level crit rate boost regardless of when the user moves. You're thinking of Zoom Lens which, contrary to the in-game description, boosts accuracy instead of crit rate.
 
Although your crit %'s are slightly off (check this page to see why), as long as you're sure Air Cutter can't be used on Tauros, I agree with everything you just said.

I'm gonna get rid of Togekiss and give Honchkrow Heat Wave and Mr. Mime T-bolt to cover the types that Toge was covering. Then use Mantine instead of Honch in my strategy. (I might give it Ice Beam rather than Icy Wind coz trust me, Tauros doesn't need his opponents slowing down). I'll give it Water Absorb and give Kdra Surf instead of HPump.

Problems sloved. ^_____^


Thanks, man, that was some pretty darn awesome advice. I think my team is finished... wait, no; now I need a nickname for Mantine! XD
 
Ah, don't worry about my percentages. I promise you that they're spot-on. You just have to take into account that 2-to-5 hit attacks have a 3/8 chance each of hitting 2 or 3 times and a 1/8 chance each of hitting 4 or 5 times, and that only one hit of the attack has to crit in order to activate Anger Point. I used a spreadsheet to calculate those numbers. :)

Anyway, I'm happy to help. This team really caught my interest. It's not often that I can in good conscience recommend that someone use something like a Mantine. I hope it works out well.
 
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