I think Deoxys-LG and Deoxys-E should be allowed in OU.

[Invective]

im all for a poll being opened on this discussion, because then we will be able to see where people stand and how many people actually thin deoxys-e should be demoted. because so far in this thread, ive seen many people give examples as to how it woul be extremely broken, and just seen footballfanatic and the occasional other argue how it has counters so it should be brought down.
i must say i am not convinced by that argument.

 

[footballfanatic]

im all for a poll being opened on this discussion, because then we will be able to see where people stand and how many people actually thin deoxys-e should be demoted. because so far in this thread, ive seen many people give examples as to how it woul be extremely broken, and just seen footballfanatic and the occasional other argue how it has counters so it should be brought down.
i must say i am not convinced by that argument.

Wow.

Name one way that Deoxys would be broken.

No one has proved that it would centralize the metagame anywhere near as much as Blissey does. It's not even about counters, even if it was difficult to counter, that doesn't make it Uber. Infernape can take down nearly every OU wall in the game in 1 hit and sweep as well. People are WAY overstating Deoxys movepool and its stats are simply not good enough to warrant it being Uber.

I don't even know why this has hardly been talked about, but a tourney with over 200 partipants has been held where Deoxys-e was unbanned and nearly everybody who played in it has said that Deoxys didn't break the game at all, even people who used their typical team. The only people who said it should be uber offered no evidence as to why and therefore their opinion should be discarded(that is, until they do provide substantial evidence).

But I'm all ears, give me a reason why Deoxys would break the metagame.

Edit: 35 minutes later and I'm still waiting for a reason kusaninja

 

[Hyra]

No one has proved that it would centralize the metagame anywhere near as much as Blissey does.

GAH!

BLISSEY DOES NOT OVERCENTRALIZE THE METAGAME.

It is the only solid response to the majority of Special Attackers. FFS, Snorlax is better at walling Heatran than it, but Snorlax can by 2HKO'd by SpecsMence. Blissey can be defeated by many Special attackers.

If Special Attackers were not so numerous and/or so powerful, you would not see as much Blissey. It is the only thing that can switch into every single Special Attack without out being 2HKO. Blissey is a product of circumstance, not a creator of them. This blah, blah, blah compare to Blissey attitude is better for discussing to bring down uber WALLS not uber sweepers. We are much laxer about allowing walls into lower tiers because they cannot remove 3 Pokemon from an opponents team on their own.


My point: Do not compare sweepers to walls. They are different in how they overcentralize a metagame.

 

[footballfanatic]

GAH!

BLISSEY DOES NOT OVERCENTRALIZE THE METAGAME.

It is the only solid response to the majority of Special Attackers. FFS, Snorlax is better at walling Heatran than it, but Snorlax can by 2HKO'd by SpecsMence. Blissey can be defeated by many Special attackers.

If Special Attackers were not so numerous and/or so powerful, you would not see as much Blissey. It is the only thing that can switch into every single Special Attack without out being 2HKO. Blissey is a product of circumstance, not a creator of them. This blah, blah, blah compare to Blissey attitude is better for discussing to bring down uber WALLS not uber sweepers. We are much laxer about allowing walls into lower tiers because they cannot remove 3 Pokemon from an opponents team on their own.


My point: Do not compare sweepers to walls. They are different in how they overcentralize a metagame.

Really? I'd like you to name these pure special sweepers that can take down Blissey. Porygon-Z can but if you make it so it can OHKO Blissey, it's almost guaranteed to be KO'd on the recharge period. There's the occasional Specsgar with Focus Blast, but due to FB's shaky accuracy, it's not even close to a guaranteed kill.

Yes, they can.

Blissey is on over 90% of teams, and you HAVE to have a pokemon that can counter Blissey or else it can singlehandedly beat a whole team.

Like I said, half my team is directly related to Blissey...that's not centralizing the metagame?

But anyways, I didn't ask about Blissey, I asked about Deoxys centralizing the metagame.

It has a pretty long list of counters(moreso than some pokes, i.e. Mixnape) and I wouldn't have to change me team at all to accommodate Deoxys, my guess is not many people would either, at least, not anymore than any other sweeper(again, particularly Mixnape).

 

[Invective]

the way i see deoxys being used is as the games bext revenge killer. with a speed unmatched by any and potentially 475 Atk or SpA (specs), 412.5 (orb) he can come in, take out the weakened opponent, and then switch out of the next guy. the only guys who can outspeed him are the base 105 speed and above with scarf, and they will need significant ev's in their speed stat to come close. and if your going to start "countering" that with a priority, then remember, none of the guys who get extremespeed can use pursuit, so were left with just pursuit + priority. that leaves
no one can ohko with their priority move except a banded dusknoir and a MAX ATTACK BANDED spiritomb. and the only guys who can OHKO with pursuit are weavile and tyranitar and banded gross. i believe that this is what makes him broken, that only a few guys
can threaten the OHKO, and on everybody he can just switch out.

EDIT: and no, you do not need a specific counter for blissey, you just need to be able to predict the switch cuz basically a blisseys coming out whenever a special attackers out. today i beat one with a p2 and a pZ, not exactly a counter to blissey IIRC. just so you know, i tri attacked a heatran cuz he predicted a hp fighting. that coupled with the fact that she was asleep dut to bronzong made sure she died

 

[Age of Kings]

Really? I'd like you to name these pure special sweepers that can take down Blissey. Porygon-Z can but if you make it so it can OHKO Blissey, it's almost guaranteed to be KO'd on the recharge period. There's the occasional Specsgar with Focus Blast, but due to FB's shaky accuracy, it's not even close to a guaranteed kill.

Lucario with Aura Sphere that never misses. Alakazam.

Blissey is on over 90% of teams, and you HAVE to have a pokemon that can counter Blissey or else it can singlehandedly beat a whole team.

Again, Blissey is a wall. It is not gamebreaking, and not all Blisseys are say, CM Blissey. And you're overstating Blissey's excellent base 10 defense. It's quite beatable.

This thread is still going?

 

[footballfanatic]

the way i see deoxys being used is as the games bext revenge killer. with a speed unmatched by any and potentially 475 Atk or SpA (specs), 412.5 (orb) he can come in, take out the weakened opponent, and then switch out of the next guy. the only guys who can outspeed him are the base 105 speed and above with scarf, and they will need significant ev's in their speed stat to come close. and if your going to start "countering" that with a priority, then remember, none of the guys who get extremespeed can use pursuit, so were left with just pursuit + priority. that leaves
no one can ohko with their priority move except a banded dusknoir and a MAX ATTACK BANDED spiritomb. and the only guys who can OHKO with pursuit are weavile and tyranitar and banded gross. i believe that this is what makes him broken, that only a few guys
can threaten the OHKO, and on everybody he can just switch out.

So, it's broken because it's a good revenge killer? First of all, for the umpteenthtime, Specs or Band ruins Deoxys. Life Orb is infinitely better.

I've already pointed out, if Deoxys doesn't carry shadow ball, it can't even take on an Azelf with a -Sp. Def Nature 1 on 1. If Deoxys can't score a SE hit, it will have a hard time taking down anything in one hit, and thanks to its pitiful hp means it won't be taking many hits.

Mixape can OHKO almost every OU Wall in the game and the only thing that Deoxys beats it in is speed. Mixape has WAY better typing(psychic is one of the worst types for taking hits and attacking) and a MUCH better movepool.

I'm just going to list pokes that can deal with Deoxys pretty well.

Blissey
Cresselia
Bronzong
Metagross
Heracross
Jirachi
Forretress
Scizor
Rhyperior(especially in sand)
Scarfgar
Raikou
Lucario(especially with the Swords Dance + FS + Extreme Speed)
Arcanine

This is just off the top of my head. Granted some of these depend on the set, I based it off my ideal set: BoltBeam / Superpower / Calm Mind.

Now, these sets can't switch in on SE attacks(some don't get hit by SE attacks though), and like EVERY sweeper, prediction is more important than the actual poke.

 

[Hyra]

Really? I'd like you to name these pure special sweepers that can take down Blissey. Porygon-Z can but if you make it so it can OHKO Blissey, it's almost guaranteed to be KO'd on the recharge period. There's the occasional Specsgar with Focus Blast, but due to FB's shaky accuracy, it's not even close to a guaranteed kill.

Yes, they can.

Blissey is on over 90% of teams, and you HAVE to have a pokemon that can counter Blissey or else it can singlehandedly beat a whole team.

Like I said, half my team is directly related to Blissey...that's not centralizing the metagame?

But anyways, I didn't ask about Blissey, I asked about Deoxys centralizing the metagame.

1) Last time someone calculated Blissey's percentage of usage using [link=[URL]http://shoddybattle.com/stats?PHPSESSID=5c79ddec66a3b0a51a702b9a8d344ff1[/URL]]Shoddy Battle Usage Statistics[/link], Blissey came out to be on 43% of teams. Don't make up facts when there is a source for this stuff.

2) Gengar, Alakazam, Lucario, Porygon Z, Heatran (through Burn, Flash Fire or Sunny Day), Shaymin (why hello there -2 SDef from Seed Flare),and CMers with Recovery or 101 Subs aka. Suicune, Jirachi, and Celebi. All of them are OU except Alakazam, and that's because Blissey can wall them, but not indefinitely. Heck, Salamence is a better counter to Lucario and Shaymin than Blissey is. Vaporeon counters Heatran better. Most OU special attackers are OU because they are not simply answered by saying Blissey. They are answered by Blissey + Stealth Rocks, Blissey + Paralysis, etc. But not just OMG Blissey we faint at your greatness.

3) Just because it takes you 3 Pokemon to kill Blissey does not mean anything. I usually prefer to let it live, its so easy to take down when they can't switch anymore. This speaks more of your battling ability than of Blissey's prevalence.

Finally, you said Blissey is more centralizing than Deoxys. If I can prove that Blissey is just a response to the sheer power of Special Attackers, I refute that point.


Edit:

At your counter list:

So, it's broken because it's a good revenge killer? First of all, for the umpteenthtime, Specs or Band ruins Deoxys. Life Orb is infinitely better.

I've already pointed out, if Deoxys doesn't carry shadow ball, it can't even take on an Azelf with a -Sp. Def Nature 1 on 1. If Deoxys can't score a SE hit, it will have a hard time taking down anything in one hit, and thanks to its pitiful hp means it won't be taking many hits.

Mixape can OHKO almost every OU Wall in the game and the only thing that Deoxys beats it in is speed. Mixape has WAY better typing(psychic is one of the worst types for taking hits and attacking) and a MUCH better movepool.

I'm just going to list pokes that can deal with Deoxys pretty well.

Blissey - Doesn't like Psycho Boost followed by Super Power.
Cresselia - Fine, Shadow Ball does less than I expected.
Bronzong - Fine, but it still doesn't like HP Fire.
Metagross - Fine, it counters Deoxys A.
Heracross - ScarfCross is still slower, dies to any Psychic move.
Jirachi - Fine, although HP Fire makes it less of a counter.
Forretress - HP Fire says die. Damage: 46.89% - 55.08%, that's from Life Orb 252 SAtk Timid using Thunderbolt
Scizor - HP Fire says die. Otherwise, a relatively solid counter.
Rhyperior(especially in sand) - Life Orb Grass Knot from 252 SAtk Timid does 96% min to 252/252 Rhyperior in Sand, Damage: 54.61% - 64.29% is the same Deoxys using Ice Beam on Max HP Rhyperior (much more common)
Scarfgar - Dies to any Psychic attack it tries to switch in on
Raikou - Damage: 63.02% - 74.22% from Life Orb, Timid, 252 SAtk Psycho Boost on 252 HP Raikou, which no one really uses
Lucario(especially with the Swords Dance + FS + Extreme Speed) - Counters do not need Focus Sash, cannot switch in on Superpower
Arcanine - Damage: 58.51% - 68.46% that's with Adamant Nature, 252 ATK EV's, Choice Band using Extreme Speed, not a counter and can barely switch in.

This is just off the top of my head. Granted some of these depend on the set, I based it off my ideal set: BoltBeam / Superpower / Calm Mind.

 

[footballfanatic]

1) Last time someone calculated Blissey's percentage of usage using [link=http://shoddybattle.com/stats?PHPSESSID=5c79ddec66a3b0a51a702b9a8d344ff1]Shoddy Battle Usage Statistics[/link], Blissey came out to be on 43% of teams. Don't make up facts when there is a source for this stuff.

2) Gengar, Alakazam, Lucario, Porygon Z, Heatran (through Burn, Flash Fire or Sunny Day), Shaymin (why hello there -2 SDef from Seed Flare),and CMers with Recovery or 101 Subs aka. Suicune, Jirachi, and Celebi. All of them are OU except Alakazam, and that's because Blissey can wall them, but not indefinitely. Heck, Salamence is a better counter to Lucario and Shaymin than Blissey is. Vaporeon counters Heatran better. Most OU special attackers are OU because they are not simply answered by saying Blissey. They are answered by Blissey + Stealth Rocks, Blissey + Paralysis, etc. But not just OMG Blissey we faint at your greatness.

3) Just because it takes you 3 Pokemon to kill Blissey does not mean anything. I usually prefer to let it live, its so easy to take down when they can't switch anymore. This speaks more of your battling ability than of Blissey's prevalence.

Finally, you said Blissey is more centralizing than Deoxys. If I can prove that Blissey is just a response to the sheer power of Special Attackers, I refute that point.

Fine, I conceed. Blissey is absolute trash and is incredibly easy to take down. I will not conceed to being a bad battler though, ass. You don't know shit about me, and yet you make a ridiculous statement like that? 1/3 pokes that is "directly related to Blissey" is actually Blissey. Lucario is there because I like to be able to OHKO, but that's not his only purpose. Dugtrio is almost a guaranteed Blissey KO and is the best revenge killer in the game.

But I'm still waiting for someone to prove that Deoxys is broken.

Edit: To your response to my counter list. You would be right if Deoxys had 7 moveslots. Plus you failed to read the last sentence, and I specifically avoided saying counter because a counter has to switch in one of his attacks. Alot of those pokes can switch in on its attacks if you predict right anyway. Like I've already said, it doesn't matter what poke you use, if you lose the prediction game, you're going to lose, and that's no different for Deoxys-e.

Anybody else want to try?

 

[Invective]

didn't hyra just come up with a deoxys counter for all but one of your supposed "counters"? or did i just imagine that?

 

[Hyra]

Fine, I conceed. Blissey is absolute trash and is incredibly easy to take down. I will not conceed to being a bad battler though, ass. You don't know shit about me, and yet you make a ridiculous statement like that? 1/3 pokes that is "directly related to Blissey" is actually Blissey. Lucario is there because I like to be able to OHKO, but that's not his only purpose. Dugtrio is almost a guaranteed Blissey KO and is the best revenge killer in the game.

But I'm still waiting for someone to prove that Deoxys is broken.

From the way you said it, you sounded like you used half a team just to kill Blissey. Dugtrio has more uses than that, as does Lucario. Blissey is the only one solely related to Blissey.

I'm not saying it is. I would love to allow it actually, definitely before the Lati@s. I'm just trying to kill the sweeper to Blissey comparison that is very, very flawed.

Note: I get your sarcasm and exaggeration when describing Blissey. It's not a walling god anymore is what I want to get across.

Edit:

You can't assume a Pokemon is running one moveset. Tyrantiar beats the majority of its counters if it adds Ice Beam > Taunt/Stone Edge. However, this allows other Pokemon to counter it. You do not know this when switching into Tyrantiar, though. That is why you can't say "Oh, you only have 4 moveslots." At the beginning of the game, you have to account for all common sets of a Pokemon.

Not using a STAB move on Deoxys S is pretty ridiculous in Standard, in Ubers people forgo Psychic because half of the metagame is immune to it. In OU, every offensive Psychic type (Azelf, Alakazam, Jirachi) uses it. A better "ideal set" would be Psychic/Super Power/Thunderbolt/Filler. That covers alot more threats than what you posted. Dark types can't exactly switch in, because they will be outspeed and hit with SuperPower. Most Psychics are either sweepers and don't want damage, or I have conceded as counters. The filler can be HP Fire to help against Steel-types, Ice Beam to kill Dragons, or Shadow Ball for plain Psychics. I am foolishly excluding Calm Mind and such in favor of more offensive coverage. I do believe that Life Orb Calm Mind Thunderbolt would shoot down all of the Steel-types listed except for Metagross and Scizor as counters, they are either 2HKO'd or nearly 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt then and can't OHKO Deoxys in return. Gyro Ball does around 60-70% on Min/Min Deoxys E.

Okay....

Counters left:

Metagross
Cresselia
Spiritomb
Scizor

I think 4 counters is alot more than what the Top 5 OU sweepers have.

 

[footballfanatic]

From the way you said it, you sounded like you used half a team just to kill Blissey. Dugtrio has more uses than that, as does Lucario. Blissey is the only one solely related to Blissey.

I'm not saying it is. I would love to allow it actually, definitely before the Lati@s. I'm just trying to kill the sweeper to Blissey comparison that is very, very flawed.

Note: I get your sarcasm and exaggeration when describing Blissey. It's not a walling god anymore is what I want to get across.

Alright, I agree with you. I won't do it anymore. But Infernape is IMO as good, if not better than Deoxys-e. Now, I'm comparing a sweeper to a sweeper.

Like I've said multiple times, Infernape has better attacking stats, better HP, WAY better typing, and a much better moveset. Deoxys bests it in Speed, and Defenses, which doesn't really make a difference anyway because of its horrendous HP.

I want someone to prove that Deoxys is more game breaking than Infernape, or as far as I'm concerned, this arguement is over.

 

[Hyra]

Alright, I agree with you. I won't do it anymore. But Infernape is IMO as good, if not better than Deoxys-e. Now, I'm comparing a sweeper to a sweeper.

Like I've said multiple times, Infernape has better attacking stats, better HP, WAY better typing, and a much better moveset. Deoxys bests it in Speed, and Defenses, which doesn't really make a difference anyway because of its horrendous HP.

I want someone to prove that Deoxys is more game breaking than Infernape, or as far as I'm concerned, this arguement is over.

Okay, just don't go around using flawed arguments. It makes those of us who do want Deoxys E in standard look bad.

Infernape is better as a sweeper, but can be outspeed. Deoxys strength comes from being able to definitely get two hits in on all switch ins and recovering before they can move. It's not that Infernape isn't a better sweeper (it is much better at killing most walls), it's just that Deoxys S is harder to actually kill than Infernape.

 

[footballfanatic]

From the way you said it, you sounded like you used half a team just to kill Blissey. Dugtrio has more uses than that, as does Lucario. Blissey is the only one solely related to Blissey.

I'm not saying it is. I would love to allow it actually, definitely before the Lati@s. I'm just trying to kill the sweeper to Blissey comparison that is very, very flawed.

Note: I get your sarcasm and exaggeration when describing Blissey. It's not a walling god anymore is what I want to get across.

Edit:

You can't assume a Pokemon is running one moveset. Tyrantiar beats the majority of its counters if it adds Ice Beam > Taunt/Stone Edge. However, this allows other Pokemon to counter it. You do not know this when switching into Tyrantiar, though. That is why you can't say "Oh, you only have 4 moveslots." At the beginning of the game, you have to account for all common sets of a Pokemon.

Not using a STAB move on Deoxys S is pretty ridiculous in Standard, in Ubers people forgo Psychic because half of the metagame is immune to it. In OU, every offensive Psychic type (Azelf, Alakazam, Jirachi) uses it. A better "ideal set" would be Psychic/Super Power/Thunderbolt/Filler. That covers alot more threats than what you posted. Dark types can't exactly switch in, because they will be outspeed and hit with SuperPower. Most Psychics are either sweepers and don't want damage, or I have conceded as counters. The filler can be HP Fire to help against Steel-types, Ice Beam to kill Dragons, or Shadow Ball for plain Psychics. I am foolishly excluding Calm Mind and such in favor of more offensive coverage. I do believe that Life Orb Calm Mind Thunderbolt would shoot down all of the Steel-types listed except for Metagross and Scizor as counters, they are either 2HKO'd or nearly 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt then and can't OHKO Deoxys in return. Gyro Ball does around 60-70% on Min/Min Deoxys E.

Okay....

Counters left:

Metagross
Cresselia
Spiritomb
Scizor

I think 4 counters is alot more than what the Top 5 OU sweepers have.

For every Deoxys set it has a different list of counters. This principle applies to every sweeper in the game. DDtar gets walled to hell by Hippodown, but Tyraniboah wrecks Hippo.

Personally, I would not use Psychic. It's nice to have, but when you have a poke like Deoxys with one of the better movepools in the game, I wouldn't waste it on a terrible attacking type. You can actually get the 2 type combos that cover nearly everything in the game, Ghost/Fighting and BoltBeam. Psychic hits Fighting and Poison...I just think Deoxys has way better options. If you forgo Ice Beam then you have a lot more trouble with the Dragons, especially Garchomp with it's beastly HP. If you forgo T-bolt then you have trouble with Gyarados and Starmie(especially if you're running Super Power / HP Fire / Ice Beam / Psychic...Starmie resists all of those, but I wouldn't think anyone would do that). Any set can be countered be a good number of pokes, and some pokes can counter every set. There's no set that will allow Deoxys to just rampage through OU without a chance of being stopped, which is why it isn't an Uber.

I think 4 counters is alot more than what the Top 5 OU sweepers have.

Wait, so are you agreeing with me and saying that you think it should be OU?

Edit: I didn't say that Infernape is better than Deoxys in every way. I just said that it can't be proved that Deoxys is more broken than Infernape. Deoxys gets walled easier, and can't hit as hard as Nape(again Nape has 2 180 BP moves, Deoxys has one 210 BP but once you use it...you're forced to switch out which is a pretty big disadvantage).

 

[Phizzlax]

First of all, I love the idea of Deoxys S in standard play. I don't think he's an overpowered sweeper. However I would like to point out that Deoxys S has more versatility than this argument has implied.
Deoxys can Knock Off, Spikes, SR, Thunder Wave, Recover, Taunt, Reflect/Screen, Iron Defense, Amnesia, Cosmic Power. His base HP is abysmal, but his defenses are respectable and his speed mixed with some of those moves and the element of surprise go a long way towards remedying that. You can get a lot of setup done if your opponent throws a Cresselia at you. If he became legal I wouldn't be at all surprised if Deoxys S found himself in the support role of some teams.
That being said, I still support testing him in standard.

 

[Maxwell]

Wow.

Name one way that Deoxys would be broken.

No one has proved that it would centralize the metagame anywhere near as much as Blissey does. It's not even about counters, even if it was difficult to counter, that doesn't make it Uber. Infernape can take down nearly every OU wall in the game in 1 hit and sweep as well. People are WAY overstating Deoxys movepool and its stats are simply not good enough to warrant it being Uber.

I don't even know why this has hardly been talked about, but a tourney with over 200 partipants has been held where Deoxys-e was unbanned and nearly everybody who played in it has said that Deoxys didn't break the game at all, even people who used their typical team. The only people who said it should be uber offered no evidence as to why and therefore their opinion should be discarded(that is, until they do provide substantial evidence).

But I'm all ears, give me a reason why Deoxys would break the metagame.

Edit: 35 minutes later and I'm still waiting for a reason kusaninja

any pokemon that can be used with 5 walls to actually make a good team is unfair.

 

[footballfanatic]

any pokemon that can be used with 5 walls to actually make a good team is unfair.

What?

What happens when you get outpredicted and lose your Deoxys? Infernape can be used in conjuntion with 5 walls too, considering it takes out almost every OU wall in the game in one hit.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Why is it that nobody sees that letting it run loose on Ladder play from say, February 1 to, lets say, April 30, would be a good idea? You'd prolly see a LOT of Deoxys-S in the February stats period. Lots of people would experiment with it. Then, in March and April, it would be obvious if he's really all that good or not. His useage will change accordingly. After the 3 month period, we'd be able to see just how much it is used, if it overcentralizes the game and whatnot.

To me, the tournament shows that it can go for some extended testing on the Ladder. Nothing more, nothing less. Only after an extended time we can say whether it is too good or not good enough. Theorymon ain't gonna cut it.

 

[eric the espeon]

lou cypher, i totaly agree, also bronzong walls every set, add to counters.

 

[Jumpman16]

Jumpman, what do you think of my idea of another battle thread, or even the current battle thread, having a trial period where Deoxys-e is unbanned? Then people would be able to post their experiences in another thread. From there you guys can decide whether it breaks the metagame or not(I firmly believe that the answer will be "No").

i would discourage people from posting their experience from one single battle, which is exactly what a lot of people would be itching to do the second they either get owned 6-0 by one or happen to beat one with a mightyena or something.

after about a dozen battles using/facing deoxys though it would be absolutely imperative for people to sound off in an organized, purposeful manner. off the top of my head that would mean posting what their own team was, what they knew of their opponents team, what moveset the deoxys-s had (both theirs and their opponents'), how many pokemon deoxys-s killed, etc

 

[footballfanatic]

i would discourage people from posting their experience from one single battle, which is exactly what a lot of people would be itching to do the second they either get owned 6-0 by one or happen to beat one with a mightyena or something.

after about a dozen battles using/facing deoxys though it would be absolutely imperative for people to sound off in an organized, purposeful manner. off the top of my head that would mean posting what their own team was, what they knew of their opponents team, what moveset the deoxys-s had (both theirs and their opponents'), how many pokemon deoxys-s killed, etc

Alright, that makes sense.

Is there anyway for that to happen within the next week or two?

 

[Zenigame]

Seroiusly, with these discussions increasing in number, a BL-Uber tier seems like an idea worth testing. Not that I'm gunna back it up 100%, but it's something.

 

[Qyyu]

I think the poll idea should be used, who should be the one to post it though?

 

[umbarsc]

Seroiusly, with these discussions increasing in number, a BL-Uber tier seems like an idea worth testing. Not that I'm gunna back it up 100%, but it's something.

I don't see the point of that. Uber isn't a tier, you don't need to balance it like you do OU or UU, it's just a place to stick things when they get too good for the metagame. Unless you're suggesting that it's a tier between OU and ubers, which wouldn't make sense, as that's what ubers is: OU's "BL". Basically, by doing that you've either got a HORRIBLY useless metagame consisting of Deoxys-E, Manaphy, and possibly Wobbuffet or Lati@s, or they're only allowed into ubers or OU, which is what is being debated anyways.

 

[MegaBuddha]

Okay so if Deoxys could run Grass Knot / Hp Fire / Tbolt / Ice Beam / superpower / shadow ball / psycho boost all in one set
Then not much counters it
But it can't.
Theres a huge list of counters, but naturally, depending on the set, it can take them all. Depending on it's set, it's countered by a LOT. There are many pokemon like this. It can handle most things, but not all in one set. Dugtrio will always counter. And theres been a huge surge in them lately. I'm not going to do math but CB Sucker Punch should definitely KO =/

I'm 100% comfortable with Deoxys-S in OU, and hope it will be.
Not sure about D, though.