And Deoxys-E survives the Stone Edge/Crunch and OHKO's you with Psycho Boost. Er... what's your point?
The only common Scarfer's that putspeed and have the potential to OHKO is... Gengar, from what I've been seeing.
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I think Deoxys-LG and Deoxys-E should be allowed in OU.
- Thread starter footballfanatic
- Start date
The only common Scarfer's that putspeed and have the potential to OHKO is... Gengar, from what I've been seeing.
I cant believe people are making more "This Uber should be OU" threads.
Deoxys-S is basicly Dugtrio from both sides of the spectrum without arena trap. And metagross, being the counter everyone has said could ake it out the eaisest, is also common in Uber as well as a physical attacker and wall, there is nothing that really convinces me in this thread that it could belong in OU.
Deoxys-S is basicly Dugtrio from both sides of the spectrum without arena trap. And metagross, being the counter everyone has said could ake it out the eaisest, is also common in Uber as well as a physical attacker and wall, there is nothing that really convinces me in this thread that it could belong in OU.
Good job, you proved nothing.
Deoxys is Dugtrio without Arena Trap.
Do you know how bad that is? Dugtrio would be NU if it didn't have Arena Trap. You've added absolutely nothing to the thread, and have no idea what you're talking about.
If they are in the uber list, they have good reason to be ubers!
Yes he did.
He says "I am a revenge killer" because I am so fucking fast and I don't have to run a Choice Scarf to outspeed Choice Scarfers!
@ DragonBaneX: Welcome to Smogon, that was a shit reason you gave.
Oh Lawd.
We don't need this trash in here. Please make well thought out arguement, don't just pull shit out of your ass.
I've been using him on ladder for about 30 minutes now and he's pretty good, but not gamebreaking so far.
Well I'm sorry, but an uber is a Poke with some insanely high stat or stats. Both of those have some high stats, hell, one them tops out at 504 speed. Thats ridiculous.
Oh and if I am wrong I'm sorry, but I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so I'm not very knowledgeable.
Oh and if I am wrong I'm sorry, but I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so I'm not very knowledgeable.
We know what an Uber is, and high stats doesn't make a poke Uber(although it does play a part.
Well, at least some of what I said was true! XD
You are wrong, an uber is a pokemon which would overcentralise the metagame in order to be able to counter it, stats, while they play a big role obviously, are not the be all and end all, you have a heap of base 100s, Slaking, Tyranitar (including SS boost) and Regigigas who are all BL/OU, even though their stats compare well with and/or are better than some ubers.
lol sigged.
I think that we might need more time to figure out exactly what the testing indicates. I personally think that having a tournament just means that people will specifically prepare for it. This isn't too much worse than things like Infernape, which we prepare for all the time, but there's really no way to be sure. The way it's looking though, it might just be another Garchomp: everyone gets scared by it and in the end it's a kickass revenge killer.
Exactly. Only one of them. The others just top 300 when you have a +Nature. The main problem people have with Deoxys-S, as I see, is its massive movepool. But then you realize that, without Shadow Ball, you won't even OHKO a neutral Nature Azelf using Choice Specs. An Azelf (you know, that thing that is almost as good as Ariados in the defensive department...). The best item for Deoxys-S are the Choices and Life Orb; with the former, you lose versatility and it's easier to the opponent to get free switch-ins on you (Psycho Boost? Call Bronzong!, etc.); with the latter, you lose sheer power. You get a pokémon that is good damaging Gyarados/Dragons/Blissey/Scarfers, but that is pathetically frail (it's defenses are like... Pineco, on the physical side) and is soundly stopped by prediction. Yeah, I know, everything is stopped by prediction, but being stopped MOSTLY by it didn't stop Infernape of being used freely in OU.
Infernape scares me! XD
On the side note, I think Mario is right on the insanely large movepool. jenigmat429 is right also I think, because a tournament will make people prepare for it and know how to counter it. It won't really matter after that though, because if people get scared they may get killed by it when they least expect it.
On the side note, I think Mario is right on the insanely large movepool. jenigmat429 is right also I think, because a tournament will make people prepare for it and know how to counter it. It won't really matter after that though, because if people get scared they may get killed by it when they least expect it.
Well DragonBane, I'm not saying that Deoxys-S is Uber, I'm just saying that it's too early to tell. I personally think that it could be allowed in OU. All I want to point out is that there are very few people that can either theorymon or analyse actual play well enough to make this kind of decision, and that with the given information no decision should be made.
Well, they just unbanned Deoxys-E from the Shoddy ladder, so let's see what this thing has in store....
Here are some damage calcuations for your viewing pleasure
Deoxys-E HP Fire Rash (252, LO) v.s. 252 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Metagross
Damage: 53.57% - 63.19% (2HKO)
Deoxys-E Superpower Rash (min Atk, LO) v.s. 252 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Tyranitar:
Damage: 99.50% - 117.08% (Dead Tar)
Deoxy-E Hidden Power Fire 70 (252, LO) v.s 240 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Jirachi:
Damage: 44.64% - 52.62% (3HKO)
Same but with Choice Specs:
Damage: 51.62% - 60.60% (Possible 2HKO)
Jirachi is not going to threaten Pursuit, so Deoxys can switch out for another day.
Deoxy's-E Superpower (same EV spread, LO) v.s. Max HP/ Max Def Bold Blissey
Damage: 54.90% - 64.57% Second one:
Damage: 36.83% - 43.28% (Likely 2HKO)
Deoxy's-E Superpower (same EV spread, LO) v.s "Obi's" Blissey: Min HP/ Max Def Calm
Damage: 65.59% - 77.27% Second one:
Damage: 43.93% - 51.77% (That would be a dead Blissey)
The most likely counter for this, would of course be Spritomb. Deoxys best attack against this would be Grass Knot.
Deoxy's-E Grass Knot (252, Rash, LO) against Max HP/ 140 SpDef Calm Spritomb
Damage: 37.50% - 44.08%
With Specs, that would be....
Damage: 43.42% - 50.99% (3HKO)
Of course, you would have to predict the Metagross switch in order to kill with HP Fire, right?:
252 Atk Adamant CB Metagross Pursuit (no switch) v.s. 6 HP/ min Def Netural Deoxys-E
Damage: 67.77% - 79.75%
Bullet Punch:
Damage: 50.83% - 59.92%
Against Pursuit vaients, you would remove yourself and Metagross from play if you mispredicted. Bullet Punch would 2HKO (but you could always switch out).
These calculations, of course, we're taken on all of Deoxy's-E's "counters" straight from the Uber analysis. With some prediction, Deoxys would be a major killing force for its "counters", and compined with it's insane speed would be too good for OU. Simple as that.
Here are some damage calcuations for your viewing pleasure
Deoxys-E HP Fire Rash (252, LO) v.s. 252 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Metagross
Damage: 53.57% - 63.19% (2HKO)
Deoxys-E Superpower Rash (min Atk, LO) v.s. 252 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Tyranitar:
Damage: 99.50% - 117.08% (Dead Tar)
Deoxy-E Hidden Power Fire 70 (252, LO) v.s 240 HP/ min SpDef Netural Nature Jirachi:
Damage: 44.64% - 52.62% (3HKO)
Same but with Choice Specs:
Damage: 51.62% - 60.60% (Possible 2HKO)
Jirachi is not going to threaten Pursuit, so Deoxys can switch out for another day.
Deoxy's-E Superpower (same EV spread, LO) v.s. Max HP/ Max Def Bold Blissey
Damage: 54.90% - 64.57% Second one:
Damage: 36.83% - 43.28% (Likely 2HKO)
Deoxy's-E Superpower (same EV spread, LO) v.s "Obi's" Blissey: Min HP/ Max Def Calm
Damage: 65.59% - 77.27% Second one:
Damage: 43.93% - 51.77% (That would be a dead Blissey)
The most likely counter for this, would of course be Spritomb. Deoxys best attack against this would be Grass Knot.
Deoxy's-E Grass Knot (252, Rash, LO) against Max HP/ 140 SpDef Calm Spritomb
Damage: 37.50% - 44.08%
With Specs, that would be....
Damage: 43.42% - 50.99% (3HKO)
Of course, you would have to predict the Metagross switch in order to kill with HP Fire, right?:
252 Atk Adamant CB Metagross Pursuit (no switch) v.s. 6 HP/ min Def Netural Deoxys-E
Damage: 67.77% - 79.75%
Bullet Punch:
Damage: 50.83% - 59.92%
Against Pursuit vaients, you would remove yourself and Metagross from play if you mispredicted. Bullet Punch would 2HKO (but you could always switch out).
These calculations, of course, we're taken on all of Deoxy's-E's "counters" straight from the Uber analysis. With some prediction, Deoxys would be a major killing force for its "counters", and compined with it's insane speed would be too good for OU. Simple as that.
No it's not as simple as that.
You don't know what you're talking about. Deoxys has way more counters than that, and guess what? Infernape does more damage to every one of those counters. ZOMG INFERNAPE IS TEH UBER.
BTW CB Bullet Punch 2HKO's Deoxys, so Deoxys can hardly take down Metagross.
You don't know what you're talking about. Deoxys has way more counters than that, and guess what? Infernape does more damage to every one of those counters. ZOMG INFERNAPE IS TEH UBER.
BTW CB Bullet Punch 2HKO's Deoxys, so Deoxys can hardly take down Metagross.
Excuse me? I don't know what I'm talking about? Your cocky attitude doesn't know what it's talking about.
My calcs assumed you had basic predictions skills. Was that too great of an assumption?
Infernape does more to Deoxy's counters (umm no kidding?). Infernape has its own counters that it can't deal with. Deoxy's has.... well..... Cresselia (countered by Specs Dark Pulse) and Spritomb?
Any suggestions what I should add to my list then? Celebi? Vaporeon? Lucario? (and how much ES does back to Deoxys?)
My calcs assumed you had basic predictions skills. Was that too great of an assumption?
Infernape does more to Deoxy's counters (umm no kidding?). Infernape has its own counters that it can't deal with. Deoxy's has.... well..... Cresselia (countered by Specs Dark Pulse) and Spritomb?
Any suggestions what I should add to my list then? Celebi? Vaporeon? Lucario? (and how much ES does back to Deoxys?)
You do realize that Azelf and Deoxys Speed are less than half a defense tier away from Starmie, right?
I mean, yeah, you are very correct with these comparisons, but lets not go overboard here. Infernape, Deoxys Speed, Azelf and Starmie so forth all fall within the same half a defense tier, meaning they all have practically the same defenses for the about same EV spread.
Further, Deoxys will be one who can always invest in a few HP / Defense / Sp. Def EVs, and still outrun scarfed pokemon.
Well, this should change to Deoxys-LG, as Deoxys-e is now provisionally standard for Ladder play on Shoddy. Of course, testing in the competitive Ladder scene might cause it to be rebanned, but for now I think most theorymon should be put on hold provided we are about to get a lot of practical battle information about it.
And I support Deoxys-LG in standard play.
And I support Deoxys-LG in standard play.
Infernape and Deoxys have almost have identical counters.
Besides that, the fact that you think you somehow proved it was Uber by showing it can 1-3HKO some of its "counters"(T-tar is not a counter in the least).
Assuming you run BoltBeam HP Fire / Superpower you get walled by Dusknoir, Swampert, Cresselia, Spiritomb, Bronzong(w/ or w/o Heatproof). That's just off the top of my head.
The thing is, these are things that can switch in on Deoxys and give it problems. Deoxys has a really hard time switching in on anything thanks to that Psychic typing and when it is against something 1 on 1, unless it can score a 2x or 4x hit, it won't win.
The Sucker Punchers can take him out relatively easily as well(Dugtrio most notably).
The problem with your theorymon is that Deoxys now has 25 moveslots, always has the right attack maxed, and the opponent always has the wrong nature to take the hit. What I want you to do is make a FOUR move moveset, with an EV spread, nature, and Item, and don't change it AT ALL. Then do your calculations. I guarantee there will be a very long counter list.(at least as big as the top 5 OU sweepers).
Umm..Starmie isn't a good defensively at all. It should be noted that Deoxys is directly above the defensive powerhouses of Lileep, Togetic, and Corsola.
Yeah, he can invest in HP/Defense, outspeed Scarfchomp and be able to hit back with that sexy...260..attack?
The last thing we need is a better spiker / stealth rocker in OU.
I vote no. I feel like Stealth Rocks ought to be practically banned, and Deoxys Defense has more than enough stats to pull off spikes / stealth rocks, can knock-off, excellent defenses on both sides of the spectrum (Beats Skarmory slightly in Defense Tiers, beats Slowking and Tentacruel in Sp. Def tiers)
I vote no. I feel like Stealth Rocks ought to be practically banned, and Deoxys Defense has more than enough stats to pull off spikes / stealth rocks, can knock-off, excellent defenses on both sides of the spectrum (Beats Skarmory slightly in Defense Tiers, beats Slowking and Tentacruel in Sp. Def tiers)
I was thinking more of a moveset like: HP Fire/ Superpower/ Dark Pulse/ Grass Knot or Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. I will add HP Fire Calcs for Brozong and some others. Pretty much, my point is it can put out some decent damage against pokes trying to counter it, and still be extremely fast. You can mold it's moveset around what your team would otherwise have diffuculty with, and make it kill whatever you want. That, in my opinion, makes a Poke uber.