Ice Fang and Avalanche

TSPhoenix

Ice Fang's 95% accuracy has caused me far more frustration that its worth IMO. Between missing twice in a row on Salamence letting it sweep me and getting Gyarados killed over and over through my horrible luck I looked for an alternative in the absence of a good second STAB move.

You sacrifice 5 power for perfect accuracy. On a DD set this change is kinda worthless as you wound get 120 out power out of it unless you switch into Stealth Rock, however for a CB set that its liable to get outsped by Salamence and Garchomp, Avalanche could make a nice surprise against any that EVed to survive Ice Fang.

Thoughs?
 
[NAME]
Avalanche
[SHORT DESC]
Base power doubles if user is attacked first.
[LONG DESC]
If the user is attacked before using this move, the base power doubles.


Taken from the move descriptions thread. Actually this seems like a real good idea, even on a DD set, 5 base power hardly ever has a difference of kill/survive, so I guess it's better to use for accuracy as well.

Edit: Well just saw it has 8 less PP and Ice fang does have the 10% chance of freeze and flinch, so I'm guessing that's the reason as to why it's preferred. But I dunno Avalanche still looks like a possible option, sorta like aqua tail is (but in opposite sides).
 
I think the OP is aware of Avalanche's going-last effect.

It could work, but I wouldn't recommend it on a DD set. Bulky non-DD Gyarados sets were not unheard of in Advance, perhaps something along the lines of Waterfall\Avalanche\Thunder Wave\Earthquake.
 
Avalanche with Thunderwave doesn't look like a good idea. When you are faster due to opponent being paralysed, how are you taking advantage of Avalanche. On slower sets, it might work.

On slower pokes of course Avalanche is better.
 
Meh, it's late and I can't think of many other moves that would really go well with Avalanche. At least with T-Wave (or perhaps Toxic) Gyarados is doing something else useful, since it isn't Dragon Dancing.
 
well you won´t be faster even if the oponent is paralyzed as avalanche has a priority modifier and goes last, it would only matter if the oponent would be fully paralyzed, I mean couldn´t move...well you would still hit it with 60 power

EDIT: I said it the day I saw hippowdon, but I have to say it again, it really sucks that it can´t learn avalanche...
 
I'm pretty sure Avalanche doesn't go last, but just gets stronger if it happens to go last.

On a CB set I think it could work. To be honest I'm probably best off trying it and seeing how it works on the field.
 
Yes, it always goes last. But I'm a bit interested if you could use that to your advantage by sacrificing some speed EVs to run a bulky set but with some additional attack. If you make the right predictions you could probably fix your speed with a quick DD on a switch anyway.
 
Avalanche completely eliminate DD purpose. A DD Gyarados must go with IF. It doesn't go last. That's enough reason. But you still have Flinch/Freeze chance coupled with a higher BP and a good (not perfect) accuracy. How about trying a lol DD Gyarados with Wide Lens + Aqual Tail/IF? 104.5% accuracy on IF and 99% on Aqual Tail

Avalanche is for things like Abomasnow/Swampert.
 
DD is still useful for the Atk boost and the Speed is useful with it's other moves. But I agree that Ice Fang probably works better most of the time.

Your Wide Lens set is pretty funny but you're probably losing to much power to make it worth it.
 
So I learned two things, OP = original poster, and Avalanche is like Vital Throw.

So basically its like counter, except has 60BP when not hit and 120BP when hit.

In that case not too good on Gyarados, which is a pity because Ice Fang's inaccuracy resulted in me getting put to sleep and then taking heavy damage, another story of Ice Fang problems. However on the other hand it hit SE against more things than any of my other moves, and I haxed a flinch once too.
 
Avalanche's priority modifier is -4, meaning it goes before Roar/Whirlwind but after Focus Punch. Just be very aware of what you're facing because a FP in the face of many Avalanche users is NOT fun.
 
Most info like that has been extracted directly from the game rom. But you can find all priority modifiers in Serebii's attack dex.
 
Also, I believe that the Pokemon needs to take damage for Avalanche to get its doubled power; you don't want a Pokemon with a 4x weakness to have to take damage.
 
Great Sage said:
Also, I believe that the Pokemon needs to take damage for Avalanche to get its doubled power;
Click to expand...

I was thinking this as well. Going last isn't just a problem in terms of taking damage. If your opponent knows you're running AvalancheDos, they'll be happy to WoW it, knowing they'll take next to nothing. Same theory applies to other DDers, Swords Dancers, anything really. Giving up priority is basically saying "Go ahead and set up on me, because I'm hoping you'll let me deal a lot of damage."

The problem with moves like Avalanche is that they only get the element of surprise once.
 
Hm. So, what will happen if someone uses Avalanche while Trick Room is in effect? Will they go first since the move makes them slower than the opponent?
 
Priority modifiers work as normal in trick room, it only reverses the order you normally go in the same priority bracket. So if someone used Quick Attack (+1 priority), and you used Avalanche (-4 priority), you would still go last.
 
Cooper said:
I was thinking this as well. Going last isn't just a problem in terms of taking damage. If your opponent knows you're running AvalancheDos, they'll be happy to WoW it, knowing they'll take next to nothing. Same theory applies to other DDers, Swords Dancers, anything really. Giving up priority is basically saying "Go ahead and set up on me, because I'm hoping you'll let me deal a lot of damage."

The problem with moves like Avalanche is that they only get the element of surprise once.
Click to expand...

Avalanche is only useful on things like Physical Pert and Physical Abomasnow, as they're already pretty slow and can play as Mixed Sweepers (using a -Spd Nature).

As they're already supposed to attack last, the Avalanche effect will be like a blessing, but the WoW/Setup factor is still a pain.
 
95% accuracy isn't really a bugger IMO. There really is no reason to use Avalanche over Ice Fang unless you are really picky about accuracy
 
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