I'm designing a crossover project between Pokémon and the 3D Super Mario platformers

(This thread can be adjusted, moved or deleted if any rules have been accidentally violated in the process of this thread's creation. I made sure to go over the Smogoff rules before posting this, but if I missed something, please feel free to reach out. Thanks :D)

Hey there, everyone. I must say, I'm very excited to talk about this in a public space for the first time. Before we begin, I have a few questions. How many of you like Pokémon? Okay... now how many of you enjoy Super Mario games? And finally, out of those groups, how many people like both game series? Because while everyone and their mother has been spending 2022 playing Pokémon Legends: Arceus and preparing for Pokémon Scarlet & Violet, I've actually been working on a big project for about a month now at the time of publishing this thread. Assuming this thread is allowed to stick around, this is where I'll be posting gradual updates on a fun crossover I'm making between the two iconic game series. I'll also be accepting ideas, advice, and any other contributions from anyone who wants to play a part in the design of this project.

So what exactly is this project, you're probably asking?

Imagine this scenario. The year is 1996, and you're a child living in Japan who just celebrated a birthday. You just got a brand-new video game that everyone's been talking about lately, and finally, you're able to play it. Super Mario 64, right there alongside a fresh new Nintendo 64 game console. You're so excited about finally being able to play Mario in 3D that you almost forgot you got a Game Boy game for your birthday, too- some newer game called Pocket Monsters that you've never heard of before. One game is brand new, and the other game was a new take on an old classic. But they have something in common for you: 1996 would be the beginning of not one, but two of your favorite game series of all time, both in the same year.

Later on, (since I want to try and finish up this introduction post), I plan on going into further detail on the surprisingly consistent trends and similarities that we've been able to observe over the past 26 years now between Pokémon and the 3D Mario titles. Both series had installments in 1996, 2002, 2004, 2013, and 2017, for example. This project involves my desire to make something out of these similarities. Maybe I'd write some fan stories, or heck, maybe I can pitch this idea to some mod creator who can make a full fan game out of this (just please don't steal all of the credit). The first installment of this crossover is already in development as I mentioned, and I even have a working title for it.

So without further ado, I introduce to you all, Super Pokémon 96- my first ever public design project.
 
What kind of game will this be? There are already Mario RPGs with 3D platforming in the form of the Paper Mario series. Would this be a Paper Mario style game that's also a monster collector like Pokémon?
 
What kind of game will this be? There are already Mario RPGs with 3D platforming in the form of the Paper Mario series. Would this be a Paper Mario style game that's also a monster collector like Pokémon?
Well, I’m not actually sure this would be a game. Ideally this would be something like one but I’m far from educated on how to properly create a video game. I decided the only focus on the working title and the story concepts for now and then decide what medium to shoot for later. Thanks to Mario games’ levels typically being organized into chunks (in 64’s case, the painting worlds), I thought maybe a written form could work, with each one of them being a longer chapter of some kind. That’s a lot of writing for a college student who already has enough of that normally, though. One good thing about this thread is that I can ask for other peoples’ opinions on these topics.

So far what I can tell you all is that Pokémon will be appearing in the wild in each of the game’s traditional levels (including the bonus ones) kind of like how it works in Pokémon Legends: Arceus. Certain elements from Super Mario 64 such as boss battles, certain NPCs, and Power Stars are being… Pokémon-ified, I guess?
 
I think it's worth thinking about which aspects of the two series are essential to you. A good crossover retains these aspects so one or more of the constituents don't feel jarring in the new setup. Using pokemon as an example, I consider status changes and teambuilding to be an important part of my enjoyment. As a result, I consider Conquest to be a good example of a pokemon crossover because it has a teambuilding component and the powerful DoT effects I know and love (Pokken I consider another example of successfully adapting pokemon to another gameplay genre, even if it isn't quite a crossover). In contrast, I think that Smash Bros failed to be a good representation of pokemon because it does not integrate these factors.
 
Sorry but Pokepark: Pikachu's adventure beat you to a pokemon platformer by almost 13 years.
PokéPark (specifically the second game) is actually kind of fun though, so I’m okay with that. The first came isn’t bad either, it’s just outclassed by the sequel in my opinion :)


That's cool, I hear Nintendo are also making their own crossover event between the cease franchise and the desist franchise.
I’m designing a crossover project between your mum and my fat cock
Dang fellas, when did this become a roast thread :pika:


I think it's worth thinking about which aspects of the two series are essential to you. A good crossover retains these aspects so one or more of the constituents don't feel jarring in the new setup. Using pokemon as an example, I consider status changes and teambuilding to be an important part of my enjoyment. As a result, I consider Conquest to be a good example of a pokemon crossover because it has a teambuilding component and the powerful DoT effects I know and love (Pokken I consider another example of successfully adapting pokemon to another gameplay genre, even if it isn't quite a crossover). In contrast, I think that Smash Bros failed to be a good representation of pokemon because it does not integrate these factors.
This. Since I’m trying to implement Pokémon into the world of Super Mario 64 here, I wanted to try and work on how things like team building, item management, and level progression would correlate to a different kind of environment. With Super Smash Bros., they kind of slapped on Pokémon characters and called it a day, but with Pokémon Conquest we saw two different kinds of gameplay feel like they were interconnected. The presence of Pokémon in that game felt natural because of how they were implemented into the style of Nobunaga’s Ambition. One thing that I think helps Pokémon Conquest (and Pokkén Tournament to a lesser extent) was that both games could offer some form of story narrative that helps solidify the crossover and give it a purpose. Thank you for your advice :)
 
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dave

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yea this is like giving Pokken a real campaign mode and i personally support your endeavor

unfortunately Smogoff lacks funding for the entertainment sector going into 2023, so please consider applying in 2024
 
yea this is like giving Pokken a real campaign mode and i personally support your endeavor

unfortunately Smogoff lacks funding for the entertainment sector going into 2023, so please consider applying in 2024
I’m on pace to graduate in 2024, so if I could apply in the summer of that year that would be great. :) Currently I’ve been busy trying to work out the Pokémon distribution across these stages, and that alone might take up to a year…
 
I’m on pace to graduate in 2024, so if I could apply in the summer of that year that would be great. :) Currently I’ve been busy trying to work out the Pokémon distribution across these stages, and that alone might take up to a year…
It feels like there are parts of this that could be crowdsourced. Have people post their favourite stage and a list of what mons might be found there, that sort of thing. I'd have an example ready but I got distracted thinking about how much I want a pokemon game that isn't limited to regular environments.

Incidentally, the 3d Mario series is wierdly short on cave levels so it might be difficult to avoid overstuffing Hazy Maze Cave even if the rest of the series is avalible.
 
It feels like there are parts of this that could be crowdsourced. Have people post their favourite stage and a list of what mons might be found there, that sort of thing. I'd have an example ready but I got distracted thinking about how much I want a pokemon game that isn't limited to regular environments.

Incidentally, the 3d Mario series is wierdly short on cave levels so it might be difficult to avoid overstuffing Hazy Maze Cave even if the rest of the series is avalible.
That’s a big part of why I was excited to make this thread- so I could start getting some of those ideas from crowdsourcing. As far as the spawn rates for Hazy Maze Cave are concerned, I think we’re looking at a good mix of Rock, Ground, and Poison Pokémon with a couple Water-Types thrown in for good measure. This might be a bit of a spoiler, but since most people would be likely to guess this anyway, this is also where I’m adding in Lapras too, as a reference to Dorrie’s appearance in the stage.

:bw/lapras:
 
I happened to be thinking about this some more: here's some mon distribution ideas and associated questionable reasoning:
SM64 in general I associate with simpler NPC designs (likely because of technical limitations), which in turn seems to lend itself more to inorganic forms (e.g. Heave-Ho, Chuckya, Whomp increased usage of Bob-ombs and fire chomps). Might be useful as a way to distinguish between similarly themed areas across games (e.g. Shifting Sand Land as compared to Dusty Dune Galaxy).

Bob-omb Battlefield feels like it might work oddly well with a high number of Electric types. There's of course Pokemon's own resident round explodey bois (Voltorb and its Hisuian counterpart), which got me thinking about the traps in Johto Rocket Hideout that sent out wild Voltorb, Koffing, and Geodude if I'm remembering correctly. Geodude in particular was notable since Golem-Alola has what looks to be themed after a weapon to reinforce the Battlefield part of the name. After noting fellow railgun Vikavolt, it occurred to me that there are a lot of Electric mons that fit into a plains biome while a lot of the electricity-based areas in Mario are eaither machine- or sky-themed. Why not have them here since we've got the ball rolling (heh)?
mon suggestions for Bob-omb Battlefield
-Voltorb line
-Voltorb-Hisui line
-Geodue-alola line
-grubbin line
-electrike line
-shinx line
-mareep line
-squirtle line (I wanted some reference to the Water-type having a lot of cannons, Blastoise is the only non-oceanic option)
-koffing line (plenty of other poison types to put in Hazy Maze Cave)
-houndour line (nowadays a counterpart to Electrike, also wanted at least one agressive dog to reference the Chain Chomp)

Wet-Dry World is an interesting beast. I chose here to go with the idea of an ancient city with constructs still active in reference to the non-skeeter enemies in the level. I then also decided to include the Hoenn fossils since 1) the set-aside prehistoric areas are usually much more focused on terrestrial animals, and 2) the claw and root fossils are found in an old tower in RSE.
mon suggestions for Wet-Dry World
-dewpider line (ocean counterpart to surskit)
-golett line
-bronzor line (dual-purpose with Bronzong being associated with rain)
-baltoy line
-relicanth
-anorith line
-lilleep line
-snorunt line (since Shoal Cave in RSE also has a water level gimmick
-frillish line

Within Odyssey on its own, Wooded kingdom stands out as the only area with machines as a primary focus. Sure, you have Metro's sewers, but they also feel more Electric to Wooded's Steel, if that made sense. It gets harder with the rest of the series now that there's competition from places like Tick Tock Clock and Dreadnought Galaxy. Here I've tried to play up the steampunk style specifically along with some flower mons and steel/bug or grass types.
mon suggestions for Wooded Kingdom
-weezing-galar
-burmy line (can easily get both Plant and Trash cloaks)
-rolycoly line
-bellsprout line
-ferroseed line
-flabebe line
-pineco line
-budew line
-celesteela as torkdrift?

Why is there a T-rex here? I don't know, but it feels like the perfect opportunity to add a few of pokemon's own out-of-place dinosaurs: past paradoxes. Brute Bonnet and Sandy Shocks feel like they would fit in most with the rest of Wooded, but I could see more as well
other potential mons:
-oddish line
-spinarak line
-tangela line
 
I happened to be thinking about this some more: here's some mon distribution ideas and associated questionable reasoning:
SM64 in general I associate with simpler NPC designs (likely because of technical limitations), which in turn seems to lend itself more to inorganic forms (e.g. Heave-Ho, Chuckya, Whomp increased usage of Bob-ombs and fire chomps). Might be useful as a way to distinguish between similarly themed areas across games (e.g. Shifting Sand Land as compared to Dusty Dune Galaxy).

Bob-omb Battlefield feels like it might work oddly well with a high number of Electric types. There's of course Pokemon's own resident round explodey bois (Voltorb and its Hisuian counterpart), which got me thinking about the traps in Johto Rocket Hideout that sent out wild Voltorb, Koffing, and Geodude if I'm remembering correctly. Geodude in particular was notable since Golem-Alola has what looks to be themed after a weapon to reinforce the Battlefield part of the name. After noting fellow railgun Vikavolt, it occurred to me that there are a lot of Electric mons that fit into a plains biome while a lot of the electricity-based areas in Mario are eaither machine- or sky-themed. Why not have them here since we've got the ball rolling (heh)?
mon suggestions for Bob-omb Battlefield
-Voltorb line
-Voltorb-Hisui line
-Geodue-alola line
-grubbin line
-electrike line
-shinx line
-mareep line
-squirtle line (I wanted some reference to the Water-type having a lot of cannons, Blastoise is the only non-oceanic option)
-koffing line (plenty of other poison types to put in Hazy Maze Cave)
-houndour line (nowadays a counterpart to Electrike, also wanted at least one agressive dog to reference the Chain Chomp)

Wet-Dry World is an interesting beast. I chose here to go with the idea of an ancient city with constructs still active in reference to the non-skeeter enemies in the level. I then also decided to include the Hoenn fossils since 1) the set-aside prehistoric areas are usually much more focused on terrestrial animals, and 2) the claw and root fossils are found in an old tower in RSE.
mon suggestions for Wet-Dry World
-dewpider line (ocean counterpart to surskit)
-golett line
-bronzor line (dual-purpose with Bronzong being associated with rain)
-baltoy line
-relicanth
-anorith line
-lilleep line
-snorunt line (since Shoal Cave in RSE also has a water level gimmick
-frillish line

Within Odyssey on its own, Wooded kingdom stands out as the only area with machines as a primary focus. Sure, you have Metro's sewers, but they also feel more Electric to Wooded's Steel, if that made sense. It gets harder with the rest of the series now that there's competition from places like Tick Tock Clock and Dreadnought Galaxy. Here I've tried to play up the steampunk style specifically along with some flower mons and steel/bug or grass types.
mon suggestions for Wooded Kingdom
-weezing-galar
-burmy line (can easily get both Plant and Trash cloaks)
-rolycoly line
-bellsprout line
-ferroseed line
-flabebe line
-pineco line
-budew line
-celesteela as torkdrift?

Why is there a T-rex here? I don't know, but it feels like the perfect opportunity to add a few of pokemon's own out-of-place dinosaurs: past paradoxes. Brute Bonnet and Sandy Shocks feel like they would fit in most with the rest of Wooded, but I could see more as well
other potential mons:
-oddish line
-spinarak line
-tangela line
Not only was reading this post very helpful, so thank you or that, but if I'm perfectly honest, I hadn't yet considered some of these ideas, especially for later generations of Pokémon. For the time being I had been primarily focused on the whole 1996 theme of the original Gen 1 games, and I've actually been thinking about the idea of early-game Electrics spawning in Bob-Omb Battlefield a lot recently to the point where I've mostly settled on the Voltorb line taking the role of Bob-Ombs in this game. In regards to the spawns in Wet-Dry World, I was thinking of a combination of Water-Types (including the fossils) and Pokémon that don't necessarily live near cities per sé, but Pokémon that tend to live near buildings (excluding power plants, because I'm saving that for Tick-Tock Clock).
 
talking about an idea before starting the work to make it real has been how i never started writing my last 28 self-published rules supplements for pathfinder

just a word of warning
I’ve already started working on each of the stages’ encounter tables, which is going to be by far the most time consuming part of this project. Once this is done (I’d say I’m about 40% finished currently), I’ll be working on the finer details such as level scaling before I finally choose which medium to present this project in. Alas, I’m still mainly doing this for fun to at least try and imagine what the final product could look like. I do still appreciate the warning, though. It can be easy to drop a project too early after making a public announcement, so I wanted at least have the basic framework set before I had made this thread. :)

Oh yeah, a quick little edit for anyone who’s interested- in my next update post here I plan on revealing the encounter tables I came up with for Bob-Omb (or in this case, Voltorb) Battlefield and Whomp’s Fortress, as well as my plans for the secret slide Stars. By the looks of things, this earlygame seems to be filled with Normal, Grass, Flying, Bug, and Rock Pokémon, alongside the expected Electrics in the battlefield.
 
Oh yeah, a quick little edit for anyone who’s interested- in my next update post here I plan on revealing the encounter tables I came up with for Bob-Omb (or in this case, Voltorb) Battlefield and Whomp’s Fortress, as well as my plans for the secret slide Stars. By the looks of things, this earlygame seems to be filled with Normal, Grass, Flying, Bug, and Rock Pokémon, alongside the expected Electrics in the battlefield.
I really would rather not reply to my own post and end up double posting in the process, but I think that's what we might have to do. I just finished working on those encounter tables I promised to show you. I'm going to keep this short, because this is... a lot of information. This was enough to fill out three pages of Google Docs, which is where I'll be working on these data documents for the foreseeable future. Buckle up, everyone, because this is a long one. So long that I'm worried it may not all fit into one post...

  • Stage #1: Voltorb Battlefield (was previously “Bob-Omb Battlefield”)
    • Common Types: Normal, Electric, Flying, Bug
    • Common Spawns
      • Caterpie
      • Metapod
      • Weedle
      • Kakuna
      • Pidgey
      • Rattata
      • Spearow
      • Voltorb
    • Common Spawns after beating the King Electrode (was previously “King Bob-Omb”)
      • Caterpie
      • Metapod
      • Weedle
      • Kakuna
      • Pidgey
      • Pidgeotto
      • Rattata
      • Spearow
      • Pikachu
      • Voltorb
      • Eevee
    • Rare Spawns have a 1% chance of overlapping any given Common Spawn after beating King Electrode
      • Butterfree
      • Beedrill
      • Pidgeot
      • Raticate
      • Fearow
      • Raichu
      • Electrode
      • Jolteon
  • Stage #2: Stone Fortress (was previously “Whomp’s Fortress”)
    • Common Types: Water, Grass, Poison, Rock
    • Common Spawns
      • Nidoran-F
      • Nidoran-M
      • Clefairy
      • Poliwag (more common near the pool of water)
      • Oddish
      • Bellsprout
      • Geodude
      • Onix
    • Common Spawns after beating the Stone King (was previously the “Whomp King”)
      • Pikachu
      • Nidoran-F
      • Nidorina
      • Nidoran-M
      • Nidorino
      • Clefairy
      • Poliwag (more common near the pool of water)
      • Poliwhirl (more common near the pool of water)
      • Oddish
      • Gloom
      • Machop (recommended by Ironmage)
      • Machoke (recommended by Ironmage)
      • Bellsprout
      • Weepinbell
      • Geodude
      • Graveler
      • Onix
      • Eevee
    • Rare Spawns have a % chance of overlapping any given Common Spawn after beating the Stone King
      • Nidoqueen
      • Nidoking
      • Clefable
      • Poliwrath (more common near the pool of water)
      • Vileplume
      • Machamp (recommended by Ironmage)
      • Victreebel
      • Golem
      • Vaporeon (more common near the pool of water)
      • Steelix (Gen 2 Expansion only)
    • Can be found by reviving Fossils in Peach’s Castle: B1F
      • Omanyte (Helix Fossil)
      • Kabuto (Dome Fossil)
  • Secret Stage #1: The Princess’s Secret Slide
    • Common Types: None specified
    • In this project’s secret stages, a certain challenge will be presented that must be completed to unlock special rewards, including rare items and Pokémon. The challenge for this stage is to have one of your party Pokémon complete the slide course in as fast of a time as possible. (Airborne Pokémon, such as Flying-Types, are prohibited from this particular challenge.)
    • Challenge Rewards
      • First time completion: Pikachu encounter
      • First time completing in 35 seconds or less: Eevee encounter (must have already encountered the Pikachu to unlock this encounter)
      • Subsequent completions: Item Box
      • Subsequent completions in 35 seconds or less: Great Item Box
 
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Might make for some interesting background storytelling to have the Machop line appear in the fortress after the boss's defeat. Whomp King objects to how stone is being used in construction, so it fits to have some level of interaction with a family of mons known for hauling bricks.
 
Hey guys, I'm back here again, this time with some fun trivia. Before I dive into what I wanted to post about tonight, I wanted to mention that I've
already gone ahead and added Ironmage's recommendation of Machop and its evolutions to the Stone/Whomp's Fortress encounter tables. I will be doing the same for future recommendations, and I'll also be taking recommendations for non-Kanto Pokémon into account for later games...

"W-wait, later games? You mean there's more stuff coming after Super Pokémon 96?"

Indeed there is, but for the time being I'm still focused on one 3D Mario game at a time. That, and I'm still not able to confirm what medium I wasnt to turn this crossover into yet (fan games, written fiction, et cetera). That being said, the "fun trivia" I wanted to mention involves this chart I first made... about a month ago, I think it was? Something like that.

1669866135337.png


I've mentioned before that the original Pokémon games launching in the same year as the start of Mario's 3D platformers was one of the biggest inspirations behind this crossover to begin with- but when I started to further organize the games by pairing, I noticed an incredible pattern, one that I'm hoping you guys can spot too. The Pokémon games listed in this "tier list" are tiered by which 3D Mario game has (or would have had, in the case of Gold, Silver, and Crystal) the closest release date to its own. It's not a perfect match every single time because of just how many Pokémon games there are, but the pattern is evident- every new generation (for the purpose of this comment, Black 2 & White 2 counts as its own generation similar to Johto/Kanto) matches up with the corresponding tier of a new 3D Mario game. Every. Single. One. Even the 2004 remakes for both series match up in the same year!

What's more, the gap in release dates between new Pokémon generations and new 3D Mario games has (almost; Sword & Shield's rushed timing and DLC expansions complicates things a bit for Bowser's Fury) always been within the span of at most one calendar year, with no gaps bigger than a year and a half. I'm not trying to imply when we're getting the next 3D Mario game... but hey, I'm just saying :tyke:

Edit: If you look even closer, you'll find that much of what these games represent matches up, too. Generations 3 and 4 match the tropical and space-y themes of Sunshine and Galaxy respectively, for example, and Generation 7's Kanto pandering reminds me a lot of Odyssey's Mario 64 pandering.
 
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New things to think about just dropped!

Kanto? Alola? Sorry, I'm only familiar with the fathomless void between dimensions. One of the first things that struck out when attempting to relate the best mons in gen 7 to Mario Odyssey is the latter's Moon Rocks, which open postgame to provide some extra content throughout. If we're trying to match this, it seems like it would be closer to how SM handled the UB encounters (as well as USUM Blacephalon and Stakataka) rather than a central hub for portal hopping. That said, the Ultra Space areas are really cool and the Moon Rocks generally spawn at least one warp pipe to a separate area, so there's potential for the portal to open locally. I tried to place them based on a mix of the encounters in SM and their home dimensions.

Nihilego--Lake or Luncheon. So I went off the rails immediately. I may have missed the intent that Lake kingdom's environments were supposed to resemble flowing cloth on my first playthrough and instead associated it with everyone's favourite glass jellyfish. Luncheon's an interesting second choice based on Nihilego being encounterable at the Volcano in SM.

Buzzowle--Lost or Wooded. The former representing Ultra Jungle, the latter being a backup forest that also references the SM spawn in a flower meadow.

Pheromosa--Cascade or Sand. Cascade feels like a decent fit for Verdant Cavern as both are early-game areas that I would type as Rock/Grass. Sand's the option if you instead want to focus on Ultra Desert, with Sand's ice potentially standing in for the nondescript crystal blocks.

Xurkitree--Wooded or Ruined. The two spawn locations in SM are in Lush Jungle and Memorial Hill. Wooded gets priority here over the other jungle in Lost since it's also the inhabitant of an inorganic forest.

Celesteela--Seaside or Bowser's. For once, I manage to sidestep Alola's excessive use of green biomes and not list Wooded. Instead, I reference the Malie Garden spawn by playing up the Japanese style. Despite the home appearing arid and a desert spawn in SM, I went with Seaside here and not Sand. Sand seems to progress downwards (even raising the pyramid is only done to access the area beneath it), digging for ancient secrets and all that. I decided that didn't fit with a rocket, so I instead picked an open area with a theme of being propelled upwards while still allowing the mon to start half-buried before launching.

Kartana--Wooded or Snow. Snow's a weird pick, and only makes sense if Celesteela appears in Seaside. The two kingdoms are part of a split patch, so there's an interesting reference to be made by putting one version exclusive in each.

Guzzlord--Ruined or Moon. Guzzlord's SM spawn feels more defined by being the final dungeon than its actual location, so it gets the corresponding spot. Meanwhile, it's USUM location is also in a place it wandered into, this time being a destroyed city.

Poiple line--Metro or Cap. Based entirely on Ultra Megapolis since it lacks another spawn location. Cap's an option if you want perpetual gloominess, but Metro of course has much more in the way of artificial lighting.

It doesn't feel like there's particular significance to placing Blacephalon and Stakataka at Poni Grove, it was just the first location not previously used in the story. As a result, these two can probably fill wherever.

Necrozma--Cascade or Snow. I'm referring to where it can be caught in SM/USUM respectively. If Necrozma-Ultra needs to fill in for Mechawiggler, so be it.

Ran out of ideas for the dirty traitors who sided with the tyrants of the islands other two box legends, unfortunately.
 

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