Imprison Doubles

[Greyfeld]

After toying with doubles teams for a while, I realized that there are a couple key skills that are used a LOT. Namely Protect and Taunt. So, I decided to be "that guy" and make a team that would lock them out, then sweep. So, here's my setup.

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Timid
Levitation
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def
-Imprison
-Taunt
-Protect
-Will-O-Wisp

At a solid 105 base speed, Full Speed EVs and a Timid nature, Mismagius can Taunt out most setup teams, including Trick Room, Sunny Day, and Rain Dance. Will-O-Wisp helps cut the damage on from the plethora of physical sweepers, and Imprison shuts down any attempt to use Protect (as well as shutting down Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, which are both moderately common in leads). This setup is completely wrecked if Taunted by a faster lead.

Shiftry @ Occa Berry
Adamant
Early Bird
252 Atk/128 Def/128 SpD
-Fake Out
-Explosion
-Sucker Punch
-Protect

Shiftry is unique, in being the only pokemon (aside from Smeargle) who can learn both Fake Out and Explosion. Since Mismagius is wrecked by a faster taunter, Fake Out eliminates that weakness, giving you the chance to Imprison. Sucker Punch is a fantastic STAB to take out any ghost or psychic pokemon that try to take out Mismagius, and once your lead is all set up, Explosion to get the free switch-in for your sweepers.

Weavile @ Expert Belt
Jolly
Pressure
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
-Pursuit
-Ice Shard
-Low Kick
-Protect

With a large type coverage, and fantastic speed and attack, Weavile should cut through most obstacles fairly quickly. No SR support means that some of the bulkier pokemon won't be OHKO, but the Expert Belt helps make up for the lack of SR damage when it comes to Super Effectives. Weavile is frail to begin with, and putting him in doubles can be massively dangerous, so Protect should help with scouting the opponents' move pools.

Starmie @ Wise Glasses
Natural Cure
Timid
252 SpA/136 Spe/120 HP
-Hydro Pump
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Protect

Starmie is the perfect backup to Weavile, covering its fire, fighting, and steel weaknesses, as well as being neutral to rock. Two STAB moves will hit hard, and usually at least for neutral damage, while Thunderbolt covers most water types. I went Timid so I could outrun Modest Starmie, and have still have some EVs to put into HP.

 

[Ethanftw]

I don't know much about doubles, and you may have a hard time finding some reliable advice quickly. Most people on here are used to singles, as doubles is a whole different ball game.

However, just judging by what I do actually know, this team doesn't look too bad. The whole idea is pretty interesting, and the members of your team seem to check each other nicely. The one thing I thought was a bit different (but because I have never tried, this is more of a question really, than advice), why the occa berry on shiftry? I know it probably saves shiftrys life, but wouldn't you most likely switch shiftry out to starmie if a fire threat was switched in? With protect leftovers would probably be a good idea, you could get a free like 6% health occassionally. Then again, are you even aloud to use same time items in doubles? If not, then silk scarf might also be an interesting choice. 2 of your attack moves are of the normal type. A 20% boost to fake out wouldn't be a bad thing, and 20% more explodyness (yes, thats a word I just made up) would certainly help.

Nice team, gl. I know this probably didn't help much, but I don't know much about doubles :(

 

[Cannon_Sam]

This is a very, very nice team. I applaud your use of Shiftry. I've always liked that one.

Anyhowsers, I like how Missy and Shiftry support each other really well. My one suggestion is maybe replace Occa Berry with either Leftovers or Focus Sash, because if a fire type comes in, you have Starmie to switch. I know that may not help set-up stuff, but it seems worthwhile to try.
Weavile and Starmie also support each other well. Nice type coverage.

Overall, great team, and good luck with it.

 

[Greyfeld]

To be honest, I was iffy on the Occa Berry from the start, but since Shiftry shouldn't be alive for more than 2-3 turns anyway, I was hoping to get around that nasty fire weakness without having to waste extra turns with switching. However, you all do make a point with using Starmie when going against fire leads.

I actually did that earlier today... went against a Gengar (with taunt... ugh) and a Magmortar. So, I switched Mismagius out for Weavile and Shiftry for Starmie, and managed to cut the damage significantly, and get Weavile taunted (which, of course, is about worthless).

Anywho, Focus Sash sounds like a good change, I'll have to look into that. I like the Silk Scarf idea, but if I can't stay alive, it doesn't really make any difference lol. If I get to test this out a bit more, I'll try both and see what kinda info I can get about them.

@Ethanftw, it's unfortunate that doubles are such an ignored meta. It'll probably pick up once Shoddy 2 goes live, but as things stand right now, I'm finding it really hard to get input on my team ideas ANYWHERE, not just on smogon.

I do appreciate anything you guys have to say, though. Critical or not.

 

[Acklow]

Your team seems very frail. I do like it very much, but you might want to add some sort of wall. Mismagius, though nice and fast could get the boot. You could run Dusknoir in the Lead-Slot alongside Shiftry. Give it Trick instead of Taunt, and you can screw any lead over. Dusknoir has the same moveset as Mismagius, but you'd run it bulky instead. Here's what I suggest:

Dusknoir @Choice Scarf
Impish
252 Hp/128 Def/128 SpD
-Trick
-Protect
-Imprison
-WoW/Filler Attack

You might want to put some sort of filler attack into Dusky's moveset so that you aren't screwed by Taunt. Though, then you lose the whole Imprison thing for WoW. You do still screw over Trick leads, though you also may be at risk there too. If you decide to keep Mismagius, you could try putting Shadow Ball instead of WoW, so that you can still manage to take out those Gengars.

 

[Greyfeld]

Your team seems very frail. I do like it very much, but you might want to add some sort of wall. Mismagius, though nice and fast could get the boot. You could run Dusknoir in the Lead-Slot alongside Shiftry. Give it Trick instead of Taunt, and you can screw any lead over. Dusknoir has the same moveset as Mismagius, but you'd run it bulky instead. Here's what I suggest:

Dusknoir @Choice Scarf
Impish
252 Hp/128 Def/128 SpD
-Trick
-Protect
-Imprison
-WoW/Filler Attack

You might want to put some sort of filler attack into Dusky's moveset so that you aren't screwed by Taunt. Though, then you lose the whole Imprison thing for WoW. You do still screw over Trick leads, though you also may be at risk there too. If you decide to keep Mismagius, you could try putting Shadow Ball instead of WoW, so that you can still manage to take out those Gengars.

To be quite honest, I've had more issues with Shiftry dying first than Mismagius. The reason I went with Missy instead of Dusknoir is because I felt the speed to be extremely important. Between that, and Shiftry's Fake Out, Taunting Gengar is pretty much the only threat I have to worry about as a lead... which I've only actually seen once since I started testing my doubles teams. And if I can predict it, it's easy to deal with.

I appreciate your thoughts on the team change... and you're absolutely right, the team in its current incarnation IS frail... but making the changes you suggested would completely change the dynamics of the team.

Though I will say you're right about needing to put an attack option on Mismagius. I managed to get taunted once, and had everything locked out. I might drop Will-O-Wisp for Focus Blast. Considering the weakness to fighting moves, and the propensity for Special Sweepers like Alakazam and Gengar to run Focus Blast, it wouldn't be a bad investment. (I considered Shadow Ball, but a Jolly Gengar would out-speed it easily, and I just don't know how common that is, currently. And with two Dark-type pokes on my team, I'm not really sure the extra ghost coverage is really necessary.)

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I agree with Acklow that your team seems frail. However, the biggest problem I see with your team is its lack of damage-dealing capability.

So let's say you've locked out Protect and Shiftry has Exploded, KOing one or both of your opponent's Pokémon. What are you left with? A Mismagius that takes up half the space on your side of the field and burns opponents with 75% accuracy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should give your Mismagius Shadow Ball for three reasons. First, it'll prevent you from having to use Struggle or switch if you do get Taunted. Second, you can Imprison Shadow Ball, which is the premier Ghost attack. How many Gengar run Ominous Wind or Night Shade? Third, it'll give your team more damage-dealing capability during the end-game sweep. I know you may not want to lose Will-O-Wisp, but the advantages that having Shadow Ball would provide are too great to ignore in my opinion.

So that's one improvement, but that still leaves you at a disadvantage against enemy Gengar, which can't be hit by Fake Out and can cripple or KO your Mismagius with Shadow Ball or disable it with Taunt. Also, Crobat is a very common threat to your Mismagius. It has Inner Focus, so it can't be flinched, and it usually carries Taunt. Solution? Teach Icy Wind to your Shiftry (instead of Protect). Your Mismagius can Protect while you slow your opponents down and invalidate their Focus Sash in the bargain. After one Speed drop, your Mismagius can outspeed anything that doesn't have a Choice Scarf. Then it can Imprison, keeping a Gengar from using Taunt or Shadow Ball on you. It also helps your Shiftry's survivability by making it comparatively faster. It'll be that much more likely to get off an Explosion before it bites the dust.

While we're on the subject of Shiftry, give it Focus Sash. Occa Berry is nice, but your Shiftry has a lot of weaknesses and a berry only covers one. I like the rest of its set.

I could be wrong, since I haven't seen it in action, but Weavile seems like the weakest link the team. It's supposed to sweep, right? How much damage are you getting out of Pursuit and Ice Shard? Those moves are great on a support Weavile if it's fighting alongside another heavy hitter, but next to a support Mismagius, you need some real damage-dealing potential. At the very least, I'd give it Ice Punch and Night Slash. Low Kick's utility depends on the banlist of Pokémon you're playing with. If you're running up against a lot of heavy Pokémon, keep it. Otherwise you might want to try (shudder) Brick Break. Protect is a keeper, but only because Weavile doesn't have a fourth great attack option to throw around. If you find that Weavile can't deal enough damage even with the Expert Belt and these moves, replace it with something that can.

It's hard for me to judge Starmie without knowing about the environment you're playing in. What Pokémon are banned? If Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite are allowed, you might want it to have Ice Beam (even with Weavile there). If Latias and Latios are allowed, you definitely need to have Ice Beam because they can laugh off your other moves. Same with your EVs. I take it you're playing at Level 100, because then your current EVs barely outspeed Pokémon with base 100 Speed. Bear in mind that many competitions scale your level to 50, so you may want to put 4 more EVs into Speed, allowing you to outspeed those same Pokémon. In general, though, I'd max out Speed before SpAtk. There's a whole slew of Pokémon that you could be outspeeding, including the aforementioned Garchomp, Latias, Latios, along with Jumpluff, Infernape, Froslass, Gengar, and Mismagius. Bear in mind that those last three Ghost-types won't be able to hit you with Shadow Ball while Mismagius is out, so having the speed advantage as you duke it out with Hydro Pump and Psychic is important. If you're worried about the power drop, you could replace Wise Glasses with Life Orb.

 

[Greyfeld]

Great advice TMN, thank you. Like I said in my earlier post, I was considering running Focus Blast over Shadow Ball since Missy doesn't outspeed a Jolly Gengar anyway, but your idea to drop Protect on Shiftry for Icy Wind is just brilliant, and really makes the inclusion of Shadow Ball worth missing out on the WoW imprison. My only real concern is having a turn-1 WoW on Shiftry, completely gimping his Explosion damage, but I'm not too sure how common that's going to be anyway.

For Weavile, I was considering Ice Punch and Night Slash, but I was concerned about getting knocked on my ass by priority moves, and since he's a switch-in instead of a lead, I felt that at the very least, Pursuit was preferable over Night Slash, to deal with switch-out Gengars and Rotoms. As it stands, a non-crit Pursuit can OHKO a non-bulky Gengar, even without a switch. Though Ice Punch may need to be my ice attack of choice, because Ice Shard seems like it's only going to OHKO the 4x weak pokes like Salamence.

For the record, this team is for OU doubles, not VGC doubles, so Ubers aren't really an issue. Frankly, if this was for VGC doubles, it'd need a complete overhaul, because the team is simply too frail for that meta.

P.S. I'd just like to add that I'm pretty useless when it comes to figuring out EV spreads. I don't know jack crap about the "typical EV spreads" for each pokemon, and what runs and what speed, etc etc. I've tried to read the articles that explain it all, and it's just a bunch of numbers to me. I'll probably be pretty clueless until I can get into one of the tutoring sessions.