SV OU In the Wake of CycliMoon 3: Did We Really Need More Sequels!?

[realsoupersand]

I swear I'm not still a tiny bit salty about Cyclizar being gone. Nope. Not at all ;)

I'm a bit of a lurker here. It has been so long since I've played competitively at all that I'm honestly pretty intimidated by the whole thing. I haven't played competitively since the good ol' DPP days, back when I used my "infamous" (to me...) Triple Trick Scarf team. Those were the days... I like to think that I run unusual sets that might catch people off guard, but I'm probably just being ironically and unintentionally pretentious. Oops!

This is the third iteration of my Shed Tail team. Walking Wake came and changed EVERYTHING.

Change Log

Change 1: April 1, 2023

-Removed Iron Valiant (Mixed Booster Energy)
-Changed Torkoal's Yawn to Will-o-Wisp
-Added Great Tusk as a placeholder
-Changed Hatterene's set from Calm Mind to Healing Wish
-Changed Walking Wake's set from

https://pokepast.es/a2795b42a469216a

Change 2: TBD

https://pokepast.es/8e69df3760c815f0

Akūpāra (Torkoal) (F) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Rapid Spin
- Will-o-Wisp

The World Turtle

You can't really have Walking Wake without some sun support, right? Well, you technically can, but it really needs sunlight to get the job done. This will probably become Ninetails whenever it's released, assuming this is even still a viable strategy.

Torkoal's nickname here is based on the mythological World Turtle in Hindu mythology. Why? I just think the name sounds neat.

I opted for Will-o-Wisp over Body Press since I have Fighting damage covered already. I don't expect Torkoal to stay in long, so getting a burn out may mean more for the team in the long run, especially against physical revenge killers and common threats like Great Tusk.

Odahviing (Roaring Moon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Throat Chop
- Earthquake

"Odahviing! Hear my voice and come forth. I summon you in my time of need!"

Odahviing is a dragon in Skyrim that becomes an ally later on in the story.

I opted for Adamant over Jolly because I really want to be able to get that power through. My goal is to try to get this thing in under Shed Tail and set up 2 DDs if at all possible. If I can, then Jolly becomes meaningless. Otherwise, the set is generally standard, though I opted for Iron Head instead of Acrobatics because of the fact that I can't reliably use Booster Energy. I still wanted to use a Dragon Dance set, though. I decided that the best way to do that was to add a bit of Steel damage to my team and bump it up even more under the sun with Life Orb. If I'm doing my math right, Protosynthesis + Life Orb basically puts Odahviing at 700 Attack without a single Dragon Dance.

Jörmungandr (Walking Wake) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 8 HP / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse

The World Serpent

Walking Wake is named for the World Serpent from Norse mythology. It seemed to fit this primordial monstrosity that I adore ever so much. Norse dragon pupper is best pupper.

I was originally running an Agility set, but at the suggestions of others and due to the lack of Iron Valiant providing valuable speed support, I decided to switch back to the standard +Speed Choice Specs set. I would honestly prefer to be able to set up behind Shed Tail and unleash, but at the same time, I feel like this team is going to be particularly weak to certain Trick Scarfers as it currently stands. This will outspeed basically everything in the game that isn't boosted. It does fall short of outspeeding Iron Valiant, which is something that nothing on this team can do. I'll have to figure out the best way to play around that without needing to change my Roaring Moon over to Jolly...

What I liked about the Modest Agility set was the fact that after 1 Agility, it became an absolute menace. It would have 634 Speed and effectively 647 Special Attack when counting Protosynthesis and Life Orb. However, I have to either force a switch or get it in under Shed Tail in order for it to be useful.

water puppo go brrrrr

Satao (Great Tusk) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin

Rest in Peace, O Mighty Tusker...

I'm going to be honest... this really is just here as a placeholder, though with how good it is, there's a strong possibility that it'll end up staying on the team. I'm just not sure if it's the glue that the team really needs to bring it all together. It still leaves me extremely weak to strong Special Attacks, but it gives me valuable hazard and item control in addition to excellent bulk and powerful STABs.

Satao's name comes from the elephant of the same name, who had tusks so long that they almost touched the ground. He was tragically killed by poachers in 2014.

Satao is really mostly here as a strong pivot and a Knock Off abuser. I do already have some hazard control, so I'm really not sure how much more I could possibly need. However, keeping hazards off the field means that Akūpāra can potentially come back later in the game if needed, assuming it stays alive. Besides, those strong STABs can really help threaten a good portion of the metagame.

Grothama (Orthworm) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Earth Eater
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Shed Tail
- Heavy Slam
- Body Press

THE ALL-DEVOURING MAW

Grothama is a Legendary worm creature in Magic: the Gathering that I had a lot of fun with in an old casual deck I used to play.

I relied very heavily on Cyclizar before it was banned. My all-time favorite move in this game is Dragon Dance, so I wanted to make sure that I could fully support that since Odahviing is the centerpiece of my team..

The strategy here is extremely simple. Switch this in on something that can't threaten it, set up Stealth Rock if reasonably able or necessary, and pivot out with Shed Tail. The chances of me being able to set up Stealth Rock are slim to none, but that's okay. Grothama is really just here to ensure as safe of a switch-in as possible for Odahviing. It can also deter opposing Ground moves, though many of the 'mons that have those (looking at you, Great Tusk...) have other moves that will make Grothama squirm.

I'm considering dropping Body Press for something else since I have fighting coverage already, but I'm not sure what I'd use instead. I could use Spikes, but I don't think I'll ever get the chance to actually use it.

Hecate (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nuzzle

"Hear as I invoke the name of the wise old crone who knows curses and death and does not fear them..."

Hecate is a Greek goddess of magic, among other things. It seemed to fit. Besides, one of my favorite songs by Stormlord, one of my favorite bands, is "Dance of Hecate."

I had a Calm Mind set initially, but after doing a bit of research into the suggestions that were made further below, I decided to switch to the Healing Wish set. I care more about the free pivots than the healing, but I certainly won't turn healing down! Aside from that, she's here as a defensive pivot with some hazard control. I love VoltTurn and other pivots, so having a unique pivot in Hecate was something that I found too good to ignore.

I opted for Psyshock over Psychic to give Hecate some mixed damage and Nuzzle over Mystical Fire for a bit of control. Hopefully, she'll stay alive long enough to be able to paralyze threats like Iron Valiant and opposing Walking Wake. I may switch Dazzling Gleam back to Draining Kiss, but I don't know how much the healing actually matters because of her goal of paralyzing a thing and then using Healing Wish to safely switch something in.

My goal with this team is to apply relentless offensive pressure on my opponents after setting up just a little bit. I fully expect many of my games to leave me with 1-3 'mons left, but that's okay. I don't mind trading if I have to, but I want to make sure that my trade actually means something and that it facilitates a win.

But... wait! There's more!

I feel like this team has to have some obvious flaws that I'm not seeing because of my inexperience. Here are the weaknesses I currently see:

• Strong Fairy moves (Iron Valiant)
• Strong Special Attacks in general
• Hazard stacks
• Unaware walls (especially Dondozo)

Here's what I feel is currently problematic in the team:

• No Ghost STABs/attacks
• Not enough pivoting
• No reliable way to switch in against strong Special Attacks and no pivots to work around them
• Reliance on suicide trades to set up revenge kills and sweepers

Here are the other options I've tried and considered:

• Utility Iron Treads (Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Volt Switch)
• Specs Dragapult for Ghost STAB spam and fast pivoting
• Scizor with Bullet Punch + U-Turn + Swords Dance + Defog for priority, slow pivoting, spinning, and cleaning
• Trick Scarf Rotom-W
• Grimmsnarl for Grimmsnarl reasons
• Glimmora as Grimmsnarl 2: Electric Boogaloo with Stealth Rock, dual Screens, and Memento

I definitely feel like I could use some coaching and advice. I know I have huge holes in my team, but I'm struggling to figure out what they are. Any help is appreciated!

I feel like this team is almost where it needs to be, but it's missing something. I can't quite figure out what it is. Great Tusk feels like the weakest link. Dragapult may solve some of the problems, but I'm just not quite sure.

Thank you in advance for any help you're able to give!

 

[Motor Hawk]

Yawn = good. Will-o-wisp = better. Better to cripple a mon/ cause permanent damage than to force a switch or have a potential one-turn sleep, is what I say.

I say keep your moon the way it is. Even if you get off no dragon dances, you need this mon to dish out reliable hard-hitting physical damage. And iron head allows you to do that to all the mons you would need to without having to worry about wasted booster energy.

Do what you will but I still say to go with specs proto speed for wake. There is a reason people use it and it would allow you to have a nice hard-hitting mon without having to worry about getting up behind a sub. Not to mention it gives you some pivot-ability. Keep in mind that you will only be able to get up maybe one sub, or two if you're super lucky. And I would save that for your wincon roaring moon or even for a wincon hatt.

I can't place my finger on it, but I don't like valiant on this team. If I think of the reason I will edit this post... Maybe specs dragapult would do well here as a replacement.

...

As I said, hatt is good for an end-game wincon, especially with the set you have. I think psyshock would do you more good in the long run over stored power, and it gives you more options instead of feeling like you have to stay in because of stored power, but I guess thats up to you and how you want to use hatt in the long run. I would for certain play around with both and see what would work better on your team as a whole. My gut is saying psyshock but... What do I know?


Any-whoozer, good luck!

 

[realsoupersand]

Thank you for your reply!

• I could switch Yawn to Will-o-Wisp. I think I may have been going a bit too all in on the pivoting into Orthworm plan. Wisp may give better utility overall.
• Specs does make a lot of sense on Wake. I guess I really jyst wanted to relive the old Agiligross days. I do agree that the immediate speed and power are attractive options. I'll toy around with both and see what works best for me.
• Valiant does feel a little off, yeah. It's a little underwhelming outside of its speed. I wouldn't mind putting Dragapult back in over it. What else do you think might fit? I'm struggling to find the glue that fills in the cracks here.
• Is Psyshock over Psychic mainly for Clodsire? I could see swapping Stored Power out for one of those to get some immediate power.

Thanks again!

 

[Motor Hawk]

Thank you for your reply!

• I could switch Yawn to Will-o-Wisp. I think I may have been going a bit too all in on the pivoting into Orthworm plan. Wisp may give better utility overall.
• Specs does make a lot of sense on Wake. I guess I really jyst wanted to relive the old Agiligross days. I do agree that the immediate speed and power are attractive options. I'll toy around with both and see what works best for me.
• Valiant does feel a little off, yeah. It's a little underwhelming outside of its speed. I wouldn't mind putting Dragapult back in over it. What else do you think might fit? I'm struggling to find the glue that fills in the cracks here.
• Is Psyshock over Psychic mainly for Clodsire? I could see swapping Stored Power out for one of those to get some immediate power.

Thanks again!

Mainly for clod, yes. And its always good to have a move that does large physical damage on a special mon with no downsides.

And I am not entirely sure how you want to play your team in the end, but if you want to get a little cheeky then hex-wisp skeledirge could be fun. Gives you another will-o-wisp mon and a powerful sub-bypassing move in torch song. And hex will do massive damage into anyone who is already burned. And since you're relatively newer to this comp scene, unaware might save you until you get more used to the meta.

Although, upon more thought, spdef rotom W/ fast pivot rotom W might be more synergistic. Good pivot action with volt switch, plus the ability to cripple mons with trick and will-o-wisp might prove to be a good asset. I don't like rotom W personally so you'll have to play around with some different sets and team options to see what works. I can leave some builds below though to check out.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off/ Substitute

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers/ choice scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Protect/ Trick
- Thunder Wave

Or you could always just go with a standard volt/ trick set. I created this set to use because it gives me bulk but still allows me to outspeed/ cripple most of the time. And when you get rid of your scarf you're not hurting yourself. But play around with this set I gave you and a standard one to see what works best.

 

[SirSly720312]

I personally think that you should use healing wish hatterene. It allows you a free switch into any Mon of your choosing and makes them fully healed. This in coordination with life orb on roaring moon and walking wake allows them to sweep the entire game. Also I think that proto speed wake would suit your team better. Take it or leave it but this is a good team!

 

[realsoupersand]

Mainly for clod, yes. And its always good to have a move that does large physical damage on a special mon with no downsides.

And I am not entirely sure how you want to play your team in the end, but if you want to get a little cheeky then hex-wisp skeledirge could be fun. Gives you another will-o-wisp mon and a powerful sub-bypassing move in torch song. And hex will do massive damage into anyone who is already burned. And since you're relatively newer to this comp scene, unaware might save you until you get more used to the meta.

Although, upon more thought, spdef rotom W/ fast pivot rotom W might be more synergistic. Good pivot action with volt switch, plus the ability to cripple mons with trick and will-o-wisp might prove to be a good asset. I don't like rotom W personally so you'll have to play around with some different sets and team options to see what works. I can leave some builds below though to check out.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off/ Substitute

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers/ choice scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Protect/ Trick
- Thunder Wave

Or you could always just go with a standard volt/ trick set. I created this set to use because it gives me bulk but still allows me to outspeed/ cripple most of the time. And when you get rid of your scarf you're not hurting yourself. But play around with this set I gave you and a standard one to see what works best.

My original team used Trick Scarf Rotom-W, Specsapult, and a couple of different Scizor sets. I loved pivoting around until I was able to get into an advantageous position. I really want to be able to combine hyper offense with VoltSwitch shenanigans while keeping Moon as a dancer. Maybe I'm trying to do too much?

I personally think that you should use healing wish hatterene. It allows you a free switch into any Mon of your choosing and makes them fully healed. This in coordination with life orb on roaring moon and walking wake allows them to sweep the entire game. Also I think that proto speed wake would suit your team better. Take it or leave it but this is a good team!

Healing Wish does make sense since I want to try to get some pivoting in. Hatterene was a kinda weird addition to try to fill in a gap, but she does seem like a strong 'mon with lots of utility. Losing CM could mean my only sweeper is Moon, but I do still really like the idea of making Hatterene more of a utility 'mon that can still dish out damage and heal up Orthworm...

What do you think about a suicide Glimmora lead instead? It's more aggressive and risky, but I love the idea of this set I came up with:

Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Toxic Debris
Tera: irrelevant
Timid
252 HP, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Memento

It doesn't heal, but it does effectively force a switch and give me a better chance of getting a completely free Shed Tail off. I'm not sure how well it fits with Torkoal, though. I'd have to go Glimmora -> Torkoal -> Orthworm (no free switch anymore) -> finally sweeper.

 

[SirSly720312]

I think that you can use lead Glimmora if you want but I personally think that Hatterene is still the best option. You might be able to try an eject button set that takes advantage of opposing hazard stacks.

 

[realsoupersand]

I think that you can use lead Glimmora if you want but I personally think that Hatterene is still the best option. You might be able to try an eject button set that takes advantage of opposing hazard stacks.

True dat! I'll keep this all in mind and see what I can come up with. I'm thinking Specsapult or Trick Rotom-W may replace Valiant and I may swap some things around with Hatterene if I keep her.

 

[realsoupersand]

I did some tinkering and took some of the suggestions above into account. I feel like this team is almost where it needs to be, but it isn't quite there yet and I'm really not sure what to change. Strangely enough, Great Tusk feels like a very weak option here, but maybe I'm dead wrong. I think what the team needs now is a way to deal with Iron Valiant, strong Special Attackers in general, and Dondozo.

 

[SirSly720312]

Specially defensive Toxapex or mixed toxapex could work well

 

[Motor Hawk]

I did some tinkering and took some of the suggestions above into account. I feel like this team is almost where it needs to be, but it isn't quite there yet and I'm really not sure what to change. Strangely enough, Great Tusk feels like a very weak option here, but maybe I'm dead wrong. I think what the team needs now is a way to deal with Iron Valiant, strong Special Attackers in general, and Dondozo.

If you feel this way swap orthworm for clodsire. Dozo is falling out of favor so I wouldnt worry about it too much tbh. But if youre super worried then I would also swap tusk for breloom

 

[realsoupersand]

I didn't know that Dondozo was falling out of favor. I guess if it isn't that big of a deal, then I don't really have much to worry about.

Thank you both! I really need to do more testing.