Infernape (Ubers Analysis - QC 0/3)

shrang

shrang

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Blaziken has nothing on this BAMF.


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http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/infernape

Notes:
- Should I put some Lead sets into this, or don't bother? Deoxys-S leads are coming back into usage, which may justify some use, I guess, but I've never thought that they were very good


[Overview]
- Got some stiff competition from its eternal rival Blaziken this gen, who got Speed Boost and is a better sweeper than Infernape will ever be.
- However, Infernape still gives quite a few tricks over the crappy chicken.
- Higher initial Speed allows Infernape to hit hard right off the bat without having to waste a turn Protecting. It also has access to U-turn, which keeps the momentum up.
- Very frail for Ubers standards

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Stone Edge / Shadow Claw
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Takes full advantage of Infernape's assets over Blaziken, namely the ability to hit really hard straight away.
- In the sun, CB boosted Flare Blitz hits like a truck, while Close Combat heavily dents things like Kyogre.
- U-turn allows Infernape to scout and keep momentum on its side.
- Stone Edge is preferred in the last slot for maximum coverage against stuff like Ho-Oh, but Shadow Claw is Infernape's best way of hurting the Giratina formes.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Max Speed and Jolly for max Speed, obviously, max Attack to hit as hard as possible.
- Mach Punch can be used in the last slot to pick off weakened enemies, but is generally quite weak to get anything done. Cannot take out other priority users with it either since they either 1) run ExtremeSpeed or 2) is Giratina-O using Shadow Sneak who is immune to Mach Punch anyway.
- Fire Punch or Blaze Kick can used to avoid recoil, but Infernape is so frail it doesn't really matter anyway.
- Groudon support is vital so Flare Blitz hits really hard.
- Hates Kyogre, although the whale can't switch into Close Combat without getting a massive beating. Palkia is a good switch-in to Kyogre, as well as Latias, Gastrodon and Grass Arceus (although the latter two aren't very good on Sun teams).
- Giratina formes wall you pretty badly. Darkrai, Dark Arceus, Steel Arceus can all set up on them or at least threaten them out.
- Infernape is easily revenged by Mewtwo and Shaymin-S, as well as Deoxys-A. Mewtwo is hard to check in, although Giratina-O can take a Psystrike and KO it if it's at about half health. Shaymin-S will find it hard to get past Dialga, Ho-Oh and other bulky Steel-types like Steel Arceus. Bulky Steel-types also take on Deoxys-A very well.
- Choice Scarf Zekrom is a good revenge killer for Mewtwo, and can double up with Infernape in a Volt Switch / U-turn combo.

[Other Options]
- Can run the exact same set as above but with a Choice Scarf, but then Infernape is a tad weak. Choice Scarf Terrakion does most things better anyway.
- Lead sets
- Nasty Plot - Too frail, not fast enough, outclassed by Darkrai
- Swords Dance - Use Blaziken instead.
- Choice Specs - Not strong enough, walled to death by Kyogre.
- Mixed - Too weak

[Checks and Counters]
- Giratina formes
- Kyogre if it avoids Close Combat
- Rayquaza can "sort of" take an attack it dispose of Infernape with ExtremeSpeed
- Tentacruel, although Flare Blitz in the sun will still hurt like a bitch
- Keep rain up and bring in stuff like Ghost Arceus
- Hit it hard, Infernape is extremely frail
 
I know CB Infernape worked last gen but then we didnt have Blaziken last gen. I havent tried Infernape but it seems iffy this generation (or it might just be me). Anyways I'm going to test this ape out but calcs and especially logs would be nice.
 
I know CB Infernape worked last gen but then we didnt have Blaziken last gen.
Click to expand...

Well, they play completely differently, so you can't really compare them. Infernape is supposed to hit hard straight from the get-go, while Blaziken often needs to use Protect so it can get fast enough to attack, which wastes time. Infernape can just come in on something, usually on the revenge or Volt Switch / U-turn, either kill something with its STABs or just high-tail it out of there with U-turn and keep the momentum going.

Absolutely no mention of Mach Punch? Iron Fist is released as well, so Fire Punch + Mach Punch are very good options, if you're looking for a no-recoil move.
Click to expand...
- Mach Punch can be used in the last slot to pick off weakened enemies, but is generally quite weak to get anything done. Cannot take out other priority users with it either since they either 1) run ExtremeSpeed or 2) is Giratina-O using Shadow Sneak who is immune to Mach Punch anyway.
- Fire Punch or Blaze Kick can used to avoid recoil, but Infernape is so frail it doesn't really matter anyway.
Click to expand...

Read.
 
I think the last move should be Mach Punch.

While Mach Punch is quite weak, a priority move is always an asset, you can deal up to 75 % to Darkrai, -1 Cloyster, -1 Dialga (BP receiver), or just finish off a 30% Scarf Kyogre which can be a life saver. It's not like that last move will be used a lot, but it's better than Stone Edge or Shadow Claw imo.

Super Effective Shadow Claw is only slightly stronger than a resisted STAB Flare Blitz in the Sun (140 - 135), and you still are not close to beating Giratina-A. Stone Edge kills Ho-Oh, but Infernape is a terrible switch into Ho-Oh (Sub/Roost, Flame Charge), and Ho-Oh doesn't want to switch into Infernape either (2HKOd by Flare Blitz in the Sun), not to mention the accuracy issues

Can run the exact same set as above but with a Choice Scarf, but then Infernape is a tad weak. Choice Scarf Terrakion does most things better anyway.
Click to expand...
With U-Turn and a STAB that can be boosted by weather, I'd say that it's more an alternative to Victini. So it's neutral to SR + STAB Close Combat against V-Create + bulk. Jolly Scarf Infernape doesn't even get a clean OHKO on Mewtwo after SR in the Sun, which is sad.
 
I've considered what Infernape has over Blaziken before and IMO it's nothing substantial. Blaziken has almost everything Infernape has with Speed Boost and more offenses. The initial Speed may help in some scenarios but generally Blaziken is better overall. For the physical Choice Band roll Zekrom can scout with Volt Switch and has that amazing base 150 attack to work off of.
 
the scarf set can also works to check mewtwo and other faster pokemons, with an adamant nature you don't loose so much power, just you loose a 50% boost from choice band but you gent another 30% with adamant nature. also the boost of iron fist fix this pretty well. a set with hp ice can help against rayquaza, garchomp and zekrom, also if rayquaza is OHKO with a flare blitz in the sun after stealth rocks and zekrom is hit more effectively by close combact with a phisical set, so the only pokemons that can be OHKO by hp ice are garchomp, gliscor (that walls all except for a eventually sun-boosted flare blitz) and eventually rayquaza. the thing that infernape has and blaziken hasn't is access to Blaze to be the same way competevely, while blaziken must have speed boost infernape can also spoil a great flare blitz+sun support+STAB+Choice band+Blaze that can 2HKO a 252/0 giratina-O with a neutral nature. Special set with fire blast/close combact/grass knot-hp ice/ vacuum wave should be tried and I suggest you to slash an adamant nature that can still handle well the lack of speed and provides more power, because except for jolly 100 base speed stat the adamant nature outspeed the rest and is outspeeded by things that outspeeds also the jolly such as mewtwo. (sorry for my bad english, it is not my first language)
 
Not sure about this yet but Choice Band Terrakion gives this set stiff competition as Terrakion is both stronger and bulkier. Terrakion can also defeat SD Arceus, Infernape can't do that.

Fire STAB is an advantage and it is boosted by the sun too but in exchange for that Terrakion gets Rock STAB for KOing Ho-Oh and Giratina-O. STAB Stone Edge also hits Lugia and Giratina harder than anything Infernape has. U-Turn is awesome though.

Might give it a try later.
 
Arceus's existence also makes Infernape's 108 Speed a bit less appealing...

Pretty much the one thing it has over Blaziken is U-turn, but I'm not quite sure that's worth it by itself. Also, what trickroom said about Terrakion. Real iffy on this one.

And @ Braseg257 - ScarfApe is too weak and is rather outclassed by Victini (V-create, better defenses) and Terrakion (better defenses, much stronger).
 
Me and trickroom discussed Infernape last night. After trickroom battled with it a few times, he found Infernape not appealing at all. I had my suspicions about it beforehand and he pretty much confirmed it.

The stiff competition with Terrakion and Blaziken really hurts it IMO. The initial Speed difference is quite a bit, but...that's pretty much it. Oh and Close Combat. But Blaziken's Speed Boost and similar initial power without locking itself (Jolly LO Blaziken's Flare Blitz is nearly as powerful as Jolly CBApe's Blitz, and as risky as it could be, its LO HJK is slightly more powerful than Ape's CB CC) will more often than not overshadow Ape's higher initial Speed and the fact that it's going to need to hit and run (which is kind of annoying in a Spikes-filled metagame)

Terrakion on the other hand possesses the same Speed, much more power, an arguably more deadly offensive STAB combo (Rock + Fighting > Fire + Fighting IMO, especially since Fire can be weakened by the rain), and more bulk.

I guess Infernape is...sort of an...in between...option, but you'll have a rough time justifying its use with these two Pokemon around.

QC Kill 2/3
 
Jibaku pretty much said what issues Infernape has this generation in Ubers. Infernape is also hampered by Arceus's existence. Terrakion can easily 2HKO some Giratina-O and just OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, Infernape will find it hard to do that. Terrakion's Stone Edge can be easily thrown around with no negative effect save Groudon switching in. Revenge killing most Swords Dance Normal Arceus and unboosted Rayquaza is the biggest thing Terrakion has over Infernape.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
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