Move Infestation (and trapping moves in general)

[siul_16]

I am done playing my Quagsire and gonna move on, so here is my last contribution on this matter:

Quagsire - Unaware
@Binding Band
*Infestation
*Recover
*Protect
*Yawn

Positive Impression:
(Gonna left this as impression because I am new to competitive pokemon and dare not call something a fact just from my experience)
-Compared to other pokemon, Quagsire only has one weakness(grass) and grass move is pretty rare to encounter.
-Yawn is very useful in preventing unprepared opponent who try to switch into something that can OHKO Quagsire.
-Quagsire has enough defense to survive most physical attack except from those of Uber level. (Was 2HKO by Mega-Garchomp)
-However, in many chance Quagsire has no problem trapping other Dragon such as Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados as long as they don't do Draco Meteor.
-Even if these dragon has powerful attack, with correct prediction I manage to trap+sleep them most of the time
-Unaware prevent opponent pokemon from OHKO Quagsire even after Dragon Dance, PuP,etc.

Negative Impression:
-Even with binding band, I cant kill a single pokemon. Although the status end with my Quagsire in full health and opponent pokemon in 20~30% health
-Special attacker take down Quagsire really easy
-Can not handle other tank because they usually has self-heal and infestation itself isnt enough to kill anything (Was going a long stalemate when I try to kill a Wash Rotom who can sleep).

Final Impression:
While this set work for most of the time, I feel that it is too situational and specialized. It is better to give this spot to another pokemon that has more utility.

So I have run:
Quagsire - Unaware
@ Leftovers
*Infestation
*Recover
*Scald
*Yawn

Other that killing a Mono Attack Gyarados with Taunt after a burn I don't ever use it to kill stuff I use him as a chance for my other pokémon to get a free to turn of set up, What I do is trap and sleep something and then go to something that can use the free turn when to go away to set up a sword dance, DD or even a subtitute.

 

[8-BIT Luster]

Neither. Leftovers is pretty much what you want on any Infestation-user that lacks Recover, and even then, it's probably not a bad idea. Grip Claw's damage increase isn't all that significant (not enough to give up Leftovers), and running Binding Band instead of Leftovers means that opponents who DO have Lefties, other forms of recovery, or any form of passive damage (or especially Taunt) are probably going to wear you down before you can do the same to them.


But if you run knock off, they have no item.

But I see what you mean.

 

[Banryu]

But if you run knock off, they have no item.

But I see what you mean.

Then run Knock Off, by all means-- but still have Leftovers. It'll mean you outlast whoever you're trying to trap better.

 

[avsimone]

So I've been looking into what actually gets trapping moves like whirlpool, infestation, sand tomb, wrap, bind etc. Here's a list of pokemon who (in my opinion) can viably run a trapping move for DOT

Infestation:

• Shuckle (in lower tiers)
• Tentacruel
• Quagsire (but won't get too many kills)
• dusknoir (again in lower tiers)
• Vespiquen
• Gastrodon (probably going to move down a tier or two
• Reuniclus
• Goodra

Sand Tomb

• Bulky Garchomp
• Hippowdon
• Forretress
• Gliscor (personal favourite, I'm thinking I'm going to run him as a trapper with toxic)

Whirlpool

• Lapras
• Lanturn

Bind

• Zygarde
• Throh
• (dusknoir can learn bind and infestation, onix can learn bind and sand tomb, and tangela can learn bind and infestation... too bad they don't stack)

Wrap

• Dragonite
• Tentacruel
• Lickylicky

These are all of the pokemon who are bulky enough to actually stall something. Pokemon like Gliscor, Tentacruel, Hippowdon, etc. have healing moves so they can actually stall out quite a bit. Dragonite can trap something to set up on. I can see a hippowdon set that uses: sand tomb, slack off, toxic/roar, stealth rock/ toxic. Roar for phazing if you accidentally trap something that can set up, toxic for obvious reasons. Man the DOT on this is pretty good. the only REAL counters I could see are taunt users and skarmory

 

[MagnetBoy]

you forgot about cradily....he gets stockpile so his bulk can quickly get out of control and he gets both infestation and toxic, as well as recover. he's one of the best trappers there is.

 

[avsimone]

you forgot about cradily....he gets stockpile so his bulk can quickly get out of control and he gets both infestation and toxic, as well as recover. he's one of the best trappers there is.

True it does have the option of runnign infestation ( and I think wrap, I could be wrong ) and it can learn stockpile to boost defenses, but it only has two resists, in normal and electric, and it's defenses are ok. Storm drain is now a good ability, but even then it'll be completely walled by steels WHO now are a more popular offensive type and are also super effective against the prehistoric-plant

 

[MagnetBoy]

steels ruin pretty much every trapping set due to being immune to toxic, wait until the tiers settle out. Steel is popular but it is also a high tier typing for the most part, when cradily gets dropped into RU/NU and the lack of steel types then he will be quite good.

 

[DunnoBro]

Does yawn work through subs?

 

[SuperMeep]

Has anybody considered using a trapping move to lock something in against it's counter. For example
physical wall Slowbro comes on terrakion.
Slowbro tanks close combat
Terrakion switches to Gengar, and anticipating the switch, slowpoke uses whirlpool, locking Gengar in.
Slowpoke switches to Goodra. Gengar Mega evos and uses shadow ball. Goodra tanks hit
Unable to switch out, M-Gengar dies to flamethrower.

Thats just how i would use this strategy IN THEORY anyway. A counter to it, however, would be like having a garchomp that utilizes Draco meteor, instead of a physical moveset, killng your wall.

Anybody see any glaring issues?

 

[farranpoison]

Has anybody considered using a trapping move to lock something in against it's counter. For example
physical wall Slowbro comes on terrakion.
Slowbro tanks close combat
Terrakion switches to Gengar, and anticipating the switch, slowpoke uses whirlpool, locking Gengar in.
Slowpoke switches to Goodra. Gengar Mega evos and uses shadow ball. Goodra tanks hit
Unable to switch out, M-Gengar dies to flamethrower.

Thats just how i would use this strategy IN THEORY anyway. A counter to it, however, would be like having a garchomp that utilizes Draco meteor, instead of a physical moveset, killng your wall.

Anybody see any glaring issues?

One glaring issue.

Slowbro Whirlpools Gengar.
Slowbro switches out to Goodra.
Gengar Switches out because Whirlpool is gone.

Unless I'm horribly wrong about this, all trapping moves end if the user of the moves switches out (unless Baton Pass).

Edit: Or the post below me does it much better. I keep forgetting Ghost types are immune to trapping.

 

[Banryu]

Anybody see any glaring issues?

The problem with using Gengar as your example is that Gengar won't be trapped because Ghost-types are immune to trapping effects.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

One glaring issue.

Slowbro Whirlpools Gengar.
Slowbro switches out to Goodra.
Gengar Switches out because Whirlpool is gone.

Unless I'm horribly wrong about this, all trapping moves end if the user of the moves switches out (unless Baton Pass).

Edit: Or the post below me does it much better. I keep forgetting Ghost types are immune to trapping.

Baton pass hasn't kept the effects of trapping moves since GSC, no?

 

[farranpoison]

Baton pass hasn't kept the effects of trapping moves since GSC, no?

Really? I've never in depth gone into trapping and Baton Pass, so I don't know if any changes have occurred or not. You're probably right though.

 

[SuperMeep]

The Gengar was just an example. my point remained the same.
Well, what good is a trapping move. i see it's use, but isn't too easy to just avoid it? Unless, of course it works w/ baton pass. then it would be awesome. Sand tomb gliscor anyone? But thanks for pointing that out.

I don't have a baton passer put together in Y yet, can anybody else test that?

 

[Shvihka]

Swalot -
@ Leftovers
-Infestation
-Protect
-Encore
-Yawn

Traps, puts to sleep and gives a free switch in for your boost sweeper.
EV's investment in HP/Def/SpDef.
Also Swalot Doesn't care about taunt unless the taunter has SE moves.

Good Partners:
Quagsire - Unaware
@ Leftovers
-Curse
-Waterfall
-EQ
-Recover

Charizard X - Tough Claws
@ Charizardite X
-DD
-Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
-Dragon Claw
-Thunder Punch / EQ

Weavile
@ Life Orb
-SD
-Ice Shard
-Pursuit / Night Slash
-Ice Punch / Brick Break

 

[Coddy:)]

I spent last night working on trapping openers. Most success was had with accelgor as an opener. Trap said usual stealth rock pokemon, encore it and then a few agility boosts and baton pass out of there. Ofc said enemy is not trapped but 3x speed in exchange for rocks and 1/2 dead enemy is ok.

Jumpluff is also ok but isnt great vs the common ferrothorn.

 

[Geta92]

I've been using trapping Tangrowths for a while now.
The one that worked the best was this set:

Tangrowth @ Binding Band
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off

Infestation and Sleep Powder should always be used.
Knock Off gets rid of Leftovers and does really nice damage, its not much but you'll want to get as much extra damage as possible. This is the reason why a relaxed nature may be better than a bold nature.
Hazards are very appreciated :)
If your enemy predicts the infestation and switches ... just go for Knock Off and cripple his counter! If you barely fail to kill in the 4-5 turns and know your enemy switches ... go for Knock Off and cripple his counter! It's as simple as that.
Giga Drain does stab damage and heals the damage you probably lost during the first two rounds.

Other notable moves that work quite well:

- Leech Seed (Instead of Giga Drain if you want to use an impish nature)
- Protect
- Synthesis

 

[Banryu]

Tangrowth @ Binding Band
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off

Someone in the Creative Movesets thread did a similar set where it was like Leech Seed in place of Sleep Powder and Sludge Bomb in place of Giga Drain for LS-resistant Grasses and stuff (in fact, Sludge Bomb over Giga Drain might not be a bad idea for your set).

Is Binding Band REALLY good enough to warrant giving up Leftovers recovery? Leftovers > BB is something that a lot of people agreed on pretty early in this thread, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Binding Band unless it actually is good[/SIZE]… which I'm still rather skeptical about.

 

[Geta92]

I really do hate to give up leftovers but I never got any kills without binding band. 4-5 turns aren't really long and you'll need that guaranteed extra damage in case something goes wrong (Sleep Powder).
That's also why Giga Drain/Leech Seed is important for healing. I would not bother trying to trap other grass types anyways.

 

[zferolie]

I was thinking of this for a Starting Shuckle set.

Shuckle @ Safety Goggles
Infestation
Sticky Web
Toxic
Power Trick

252 HP, Split rest in Defenses

Not sure on nature, but I think would be a great shuckle. Saftey Goggles are to stop the Spore Smeargles and other powder starters out there. Start with Sticky Web, then use Power trick to cripple every attacking pokemon in the game. Then you either switch, or go for the slow death by Infestation and toxic.

Only down side is a lack of Recovery...

 

[MagicMissingno]

I just had a thought, what if Heatran's Magma Storm gets the same treatment?

 

[Fundance]

Someone in the Creative Movesets thread did a similar set where it was like Leech Seed in place of Sleep Powder and Sludge Bomb in place of Giga Drain for LS-resistant Grasses and stuff (in fact, Sludge Bomb over Giga Drain might not be a bad idea for your set).

Is Binding Band REALLY good enough to warrant giving up Leftovers recovery? Leftovers > BB is something that a lot of people agreed on pretty early in this thread, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Binding Band unless it actually is good[/SIZE]… which I'm still rather skeptical about.

Binding Band is good if you're planning on switching out soon anyway via baton pass and really want the opposing pokemon to be knocked out easily. I don't think Accellgor can even make much use of leftovers recovery due to its frailness. So why not put out more damage?

 

[goomy pls]

I was thinking of this for a Starting Shuckle set.

Shuckle @ Safety Goggles
Infestation
Sticky Web
Toxic
Power Trick

You mean Power Split.

Safety goggles sounds like a really bad idea on shuckle. It's more vulnerable to taunt than sleep anyway, and it can't get hurt from sand.

 

[MagicMissingno]

You know, you might be able to use trapping moves for momentum. Use the trapper to lure something out, use the trapping move, switch out to something that can take on the trapped Pokemon. Of course I might be dumb here.

 

[Banryu]

You know, you might be able to use trapping moves for momentum. Use the trapper to lure something out, use the trapping move, switch out to something that can take on the trapped Pokemon. Of course I might be dumb here.

No, I agree, that DOES seem like a major benefit to trapping; for instance, sending out something that knows infestation which Skarmory (thinks it) counters, trapping it with the move, then switching to Magnezone or something. *shrug* I dunno, I haven't tried it yet. But yeah, I think it's a possibility.