Opps. Yeah I meant power Split. And I picked Safety goggles mainly to deal with starting Smeargles and Vivillions and other sleep users. He has nothing to stop taunt right?
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Move Infestation (and trapping moves in general)
- Thread starter Banryu
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Opps. Yeah I meant power Split. And I picked Safety goggles mainly to deal with starting Smeargles and Vivillions and other sleep users. He has nothing to stop taunt right?
mental herb, but that's a single use item
I think the most promising use of Infestation is utilizing it on something with a diverse attacking movepool and the ability to tank a hit or two. Tangrowth, Dusknoir, and Goodra are some examples that came to mind. Basically, if you can trap something, tank a hit, and retaliate with a SE hit of some sort, you'll be doing pretty substantial damage, since whatever damage you output will have an effective +25% added to it (+12.5% if lefties is in play). So yes, you'll be taking a lot of damage by doing this, but it makes for an effective luring strategy that can precede a sweep. Bonus points if your poke can outspeed the opponent's poke, because you could easily be looking at a 2HKO.
Of course, prediction skills can amount to a similar result; however, this has the benefit of a higher damage output and a more reliable execution, with the cost of more damage taken in by your poke.
Of course, prediction skills can amount to a similar result; however, this has the benefit of a higher damage output and a more reliable execution, with the cost of more damage taken in by your poke.
I've been thinking a bit and Infestation as a primary residual damage dealer could potentially work. With Binding Band and Protect you can deal 1/3 of the target's max HP (assuming they switch in a counter) plus Infestation's base damage (very low but guarantees you'll get a KO in six ticks instead of seven) before needing to switch out to a counter of your own. That's a significant tax, and the threat of trapping immediately means that if they don't switch to a counter you just catch them and kill them (assuming you don't misplay and switch in something they can beat). Combined with entry hazards for good measure (Toxic Spikes especially, since if that's down at one layer the opponent takes 1/3 + 1/4 = 7/12 residual before being able to do anything about it if the spikes affect them, meaning they will never be able to switch in again barring cleric shenanigans or they risk being hit by Infestation and dying to the residual ticks) and even though you're using a move constantly to keep the target in place, that 1/3 residual with Protect as well as the pressure of the opponent only getting one chance to switch could be potent.
The primary issue is most likely boosting sweepers, which will require good prediction and access to a crippling move (or simply obscene amounts of walling redundancy to prevent them from sweeping with one or two boosts, preferably both) in order to deal with, as well as lacking Leftovers which is traditionally critical to stall (although Leftovers is a fine item choice if it provides enough longevity to cancel out the gains from Binding Band). Less Leftovers is generally compensated by faster than usual residual damage being dealt, creating a sort of "fast" stall setup.
Additionally, the 1/3 thing assumes the opponent has an OHKO available. If they do not, you can take 2/3 plus whatever move you use in between two Protects, potentially KOing them outright or at least preventing them from switching in if there's a chance you'll Infestation them (in which case a KO is now certain)
The primary issue is most likely boosting sweepers, which will require good prediction and access to a crippling move (or simply obscene amounts of walling redundancy to prevent them from sweeping with one or two boosts, preferably both) in order to deal with, as well as lacking Leftovers which is traditionally critical to stall (although Leftovers is a fine item choice if it provides enough longevity to cancel out the gains from Binding Band). Less Leftovers is generally compensated by faster than usual residual damage being dealt, creating a sort of "fast" stall setup.
Additionally, the 1/3 thing assumes the opponent has an OHKO available. If they do not, you can take 2/3 plus whatever move you use in between two Protects, potentially KOing them outright or at least preventing them from switching in if there's a chance you'll Infestation them (in which case a KO is now certain)
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Here's an interesting thought that I'm not sure has been posted yet, but a some of our infestation learning friends also have access to the new Venom Drench move. (namely Scolipede and Swalot) on the chance that a counter gets switched in i think it would be worth considering venom drench to neuter the counter that gets stuck in to allow for more longevity on the one switching in. for instance scolipede as a trapping status inflictor.
Scolipede @blacksludge
w/poison point
-infestation
-venom drench
-protect/substitute
-toxic/poison jab
evs and such are up to you, but it could kill the enemy while ensuring that the trapper itself doesnt take too much damage. (ofc this is ALL assuming the trapped mon cant ohko or VS/UT/BP back out, or are a steel or poison type)
just an idea here. what do you all think?
Scolipede @blacksludge
w/poison point
-infestation
-venom drench
-protect/substitute
-toxic/poison jab
evs and such are up to you, but it could kill the enemy while ensuring that the trapper itself doesnt take too much damage. (ofc this is ALL assuming the trapped mon cant ohko or VS/UT/BP back out, or are a steel or poison type)
just an idea here. what do you all think?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-69568138
Recent replay showing the importance of leftovers + a recover move for a bulky wall considering infestation
Admittedly, this won't happen every time and the battle would have went much differently if charizard had solarbeam or greninja had grass knot but the fact remains that not focusing solely on infestation makes this wall much more powerful. Consider having quagsire on your team with the following moveset:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Scald
- Recover
- Infestation
0 atk iv's to lessen damage from confusion, which isn't ideal to get in reality but should be used in the simulator. Stockpile is essential so that damage taken can be reduced which leads to burns/infestation. For me, quagsire has often lead to a mini sweep if potential grass attackers have been removed.
Recent replay showing the importance of leftovers + a recover move for a bulky wall considering infestation
Admittedly, this won't happen every time and the battle would have went much differently if charizard had solarbeam or greninja had grass knot but the fact remains that not focusing solely on infestation makes this wall much more powerful. Consider having quagsire on your team with the following moveset:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Scald
- Recover
- Infestation
0 atk iv's to lessen damage from confusion, which isn't ideal to get in reality but should be used in the simulator. Stockpile is essential so that damage taken can be reduced which leads to burns/infestation. For me, quagsire has often lead to a mini sweep if potential grass attackers have been removed.
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I love that, It might be the best Infestation user i have seen thus far. Quag cant be volt switched out of either, so it can trap non-trickscarf Rotoms and similar mons and defensively set up. Add some toxic spikes support and be sure to remove grass types and phazers and it can sweep a whole team in the most humorously annoying way possible.
I personally think the greatest use of infestation lies in essentially breaking the sleep clause; since infestation traps, infesting something and then putting it to sleep forces them to stay in and try to pass off sleep turns. This makes anything decently fast with infestation and a sleep move quite viable, at the expense of fearing both grass types and ghosts. Here are two example sets:
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
Trait: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
A bit trolly and not really OU fit, this jumpluff is pretty simple. Infestation on the switch. Was grass or ghost type switched in?
Yes > Switch out
No > Sleep Powder and Subseed stuff to death
A slightly more viable poke coming from the same angle.
Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Trait: Wonder Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spe / 8 Def
Timid Nature
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
Infestation + Sleep should allow you to get one or two quiver dances up without having to worry about something like talonflame switching in. At that point, baton pass, preferably before they wake. +2 Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defense to the special sweeper of your choice.
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
Trait: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
A bit trolly and not really OU fit, this jumpluff is pretty simple. Infestation on the switch. Was grass or ghost type switched in?
Yes > Switch out
No > Sleep Powder and Subseed stuff to death
A slightly more viable poke coming from the same angle.
Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Trait: Wonder Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spe / 8 Def
Timid Nature
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
Infestation + Sleep should allow you to get one or two quiver dances up without having to worry about something like talonflame switching in. At that point, baton pass, preferably before they wake. +2 Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defense to the special sweeper of your choice.
The problem with Infestation as a trapping mechanism is that usually if your opponent doesn't think they can kill you with their active Poke, they're going to switch to something that can, and then you've just trapped yourself against something that can beat you. They aren't going to leave something in to get trapped that they know can't beat your trapper.
If you had actually read the last page, you'd know that most people are already aware of that and play around that by either using protect + immediately switching out if threatened with OHKO, which doesn't KO, but severely weakens most mons, or using a fast sleep or using a bulky mon like quagsire with a defensive boosting set, so that the opponent CAN'T switch something in that can OHKO unless they have a very strong SE-attack, which can (and should) be disposed of beforehand. Though I personally prefer the first way since it's the most flexible.
The more I think about it, the more attractive trapping becomes. Trap something, switch to a counter, and either k0 em right away, or set up for a potential sweep.
I like this set a lot, actually. Why is it necessary to switch when they have a ghost type, though?
I like it too. I should try these out.
I like this set a lot, actually. Why is it necessary to switch when they have a ghost type, though?
I like it too. I should try these out.
Its a shame (blessing?) Sableye doesn't get this. It could be an utter nightmare.
Or Klefki. Imagine that.
I don't want to...
Ghost types cannot be trapped in Gen 6.
thought that was only from shadow tag. that does make sense though.
Due to the new mechanics of trapping moves in sixth gen, ghosts can switch out of partial trapping, so you'd just be sleeping something that could switch right away, defeating the point of the set.
Just realized that had already been replied to. My bad.
Even though I'm new and just started with more "advance " in X&Y, I thought I'd share my Weezing in this thread. Been stalking it a while and haven't seen Weezing mentioned here;
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Infestation
- Will-O-Wisp
- Clear Smog
- Protect
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Pros:
Currently this have been working quite nicely. With WoW you completely wall most physical attackers, and together with infestation you can trap someone unexpectedly. Clear Smog is there to reset anyone who try to setup on you while trapped - the only downside is that steel types isn't affected by this strategy.
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Infestation
- Will-O-Wisp
- Clear Smog
- Protect
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Pros:
- The moveset does in most cases kill a pokemon during the infestation duration.
- Walls many dangerous foes; Especially Dragon Dance users struggle against this Weezing.
- Infestation on Weezing is unexpected and if someone try to setup on it instead of switching to a counter they will be trapped and fainted.
- Immune to Toxic stall
- Immune to Ground
- Any special attacker will kill you - the best you can hope for is WoW before you die.
- Any taunt and substitute users. You'll have absolutely no chance to break the sub!
- Shadow Ball Aegislash is quite dangerous and will in most cases ignore your strategy.
- Leech Seed users like Venasaur & Ferrothorn is hard to deal with. It's 50/50 who'll win.
Currently this have been working quite nicely. With WoW you completely wall most physical attackers, and together with infestation you can trap someone unexpectedly. Clear Smog is there to reset anyone who try to setup on you while trapped - the only downside is that steel types isn't affected by this strategy.
I have been using Weezing too as an Infestation trapper, and it has blown my mind away. It always pulls the weight for the team
I would swap out protect for flamethrower so steels aren't as big as an issue (esp. ferrothorn, forretress, scizor), but then again it depends on your team lineup.
Those mons have never been trappable. And s for infest itself, the point is that all those moves had their trap damage per turn doubled to 1/8, which is a free stackable poison damage each turn while keeping enemy in. Plus while the move is weaker than others, perfect accuracy and distribution on things like ghost types makes it quite usable
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