Metagame Inheritance

hey drampa's grandpa I figured you might want some help with that donor's list (sorry I didn't do common inheritors, but at least this can be a start) I haven't done all of them yet, but I got through "E" so hopefully this can be a resource for others building! I'll be continuing this throughout the next couple of weeks but I at least wanted to get what I have out
:alakazam::amoonguss::barraskewda::barbaracle::basculin::beartic::bellossom::cinccino::clawitzer::comfey::crawdaunt::dhelmise::dragalge::druddigon::emolga::excadrill::exploud:
Two additions/corrections to a few of your list's

Barbaracle: You forgot about its main gimmick: Crit Sirfetch, which utilises leek's extra crit chance+ cross chop increased critical hit chance+ sniper to be near unwallable and 2hko even the bulkiests mons.

Basculin: unless you are using double edge/head smash as coverage, reckless is outclassed as the boost it gives (x1.2) is lower than the one from adapt (x1.33)
 

CringeMeta

formerly We Wuz Nidokangz
Donor Clause
• You cannot inherit from banned Pokemon
• No two Pokemon on your team may inherit from the same evolutionary line. The purpose of this rule is to encourage diversity, not to ban broken things.

You cannot Inherit from Toxapex and Mareanie on the same team
You cannot Inherit from Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Mow on the same team
You can Inherit from Vaporeon and Jolteon on the same team
It seems as if this may not be implemented if it is still intended to be(?)

For example, the following team passes the Inheritance validator:-

Volcarona
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot

Grookey
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Leaf Storm
- Nasty Plot

But according the /ds command, these sets should only be legal on Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Mow, respectively.
 
Question:

What if we unban darmanitan-G but ban it as a donor, similar to torkoal and toxtricity?

Without Gtactics its just normal darm but as an ice type, and unlike toxtricity and torkoal, which are outclassed and underwhelming respectively, G-Darm has a niche as the strongest physical ice type, with sets such as this one:

Hitmontop (Darmanitan-Galar) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch

Cries vs bulky waters that arent weak to its coverage, but it has a niche

Another option is to just ban Gorilla tactics, but I'm no metagame leader so
 
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this gotta be the worst team ive dropped but it works ok

Basically I got the idea from Chazm who was mentioning Regenerator mons like Keldeo and I originally meant for this team to be semistall, but I realized the value of stall that is highly resistant to chip so the team turned into this.

:mandibuzz::tangrowth:
Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Leech Seed

Mandibuzz is the primary Zarude check and secondary Alakazam check. Helmet chips Zarude more which I found more useful but if you want to better check Alakazam use HDB.

:goodra::slowking:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Drain Punch / Iron Tail
- Scald / Iron Tail
- Earthquake

Blanket check to most special attackers. Drain Punch was mainly for Ferrothorn and Snorlax but you could probably use Iron Tail well to smack Togekiss and Hatterene.

:toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 9 Spe
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

It's a Toxapex. Haze is super valuable to hinder Butterfree inheritors from making any progress; you eventually switch into Slowbro-Galar to Poison Jab the opponent to death. Speed is IVd to outspeed Conkeldurr/Marowak-Alola in TR.

:amoonguss::eldegoss:
Amoonguss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Rapid Spin
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed / Stun Spore / Poison Powder / Pollen Puff

The spinner and cleric. HDB is really valuable when there's a spiker so you should probably keep that. Stun Spore and Poison Powder cripples Dragapult/Gengar while Pollen Puff smacks Zarude lol

:hippowdon::corsola:
Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Scald

Physical blanket check. Scald is incredible cause you burn Flying types on switchin, which really helps against the likes of Corviknight-Scizor.

:slowbro-galar::mienfoo:
Slowbro-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- U-turn

Secondary special blanket check and primary check to Togekiss/Hatterene. I had Drapion here before but didn't like that Draining Kiss does a billion to it even at +1 (rip Muk-Alola).



yeah this is basically my way of calling for an ability clause, regen spam is kinda busted
A few things:

Can you not do this please kay thanks

I love trying to find ways to break/wall teams, even with niche options, and this is definitely tough. That said, here are my individual ideas:

Knock Off obviously creates a lot of suffering for this team, especially when combined with hazards. Unfortunately you have so many poison mons that even if you slapped every single mon, T-Spikes still wouldn't do a lot. The opponent could just predict any poison switch-ins and force you to take a lot of ground/psychic damage, with one very important exception:

I'd personally argue that Amoongus is the lynchpin of the team. If you kill it, the rest of the team is much more (not that that's saying much, but still) manageable. Because only two mons run any actual switch-out moves, I think that trapping becomes quite the threat.

This is something I just whipped up, and it's far from perfect, but it fits the idea:

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Unaware (You don't run any setup so this is hardly necessary) / Suction Cups / Pressure / Thick Fat / Water Veil, et al.
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block / Whirlpool
- Soak
- Toxic
- Recover / Sub / Taunt / Tech

Really, it just needs a trapping move, some way to force a timer on poison mons (Soak + Toxic here, but there are probably better ideas), and some way to keep itself from getting "counter-timered". Ferro is immune to Leech Seed and opposing poison moves, and doesn't really mind getting burned. I mean it definitely would prefer not to be burned, but it's hardly stopping it.

If this thing gets a Block off on Amoongus, Mandi, Pex, or Hippo, they're marked for death. If you decide to run Octillery for Suction Cups, add Goodra to that list (although Drain Punch does put pressure on it, so you'd definitely need to do some scouting there).

Some notable other ideas that can potentially do some work:

- Sableye has Prankster with Mean Look, Taunt, Recover, Trick, Encore, and just a suite of spicy nonsense.
- Lapras has Block and Perish Song
- Gengar has Mean Look, Taunt, and Perish Song (and Cursed Body might actually be nice if they only have one attacking move)

Obviously the problem with all of this is that it takes up a team slot, really only does work against stall teams (or balance teams that just don't have a lot of offensive pressure), and requires a ton of really good conditioning and reading.

This all said, there should definitely be a two-ability limit a la AAA, because this kind of team really makes cancer feel like the flu with how off-the-deep-end it is, and I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberg with how horrific creative these teams could be.
 
The one good thing from this DLC

(Tyrantrum) Terrakion @ Choice Band/Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Stealth Rock/Dragon Dance

At last, head smash and close combat on the same set

gone are the days of having to rely on coverage to beat hippodown because superpower does 50%
 
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The one good thing from this DLC

Terrakion @ Choice Band/Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Stealth Rock/Dragon Dance

At last, head smash and close combat on the same set

gone are the days of having to rely on coverage to beat hippodown because superpower does 50%
Maybe this is a dumb question but who is the donor here? Also wouldn't hippo still be able to tank the hit and give back an OHKO after the drop?
 
Maybe this is a dumb question but who is the donor here? Also wouldn't hippo still be able to tank the hit and give back an OHKO after the drop?
1) I have edidted my last post to have the donor

2) 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
While it cant beat it 1v1, It allows it to hit it hard on the switch and threaten to KO it, something it couldnt do before unless it ran wood hammer, which also was much easier to switch into

This change also applies to other defensive mons too:

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o: 180-213 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also having a good fighting stab, head smash and earthquake on the same set is huge too, as one of the hard counters to terrakion,aegislash, now are threatened by earthquake

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 186-220 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Double post, but also

Nidoking (Spectrier) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Filler

Spectrier has 145 Spa and 130 Speed. I'm no metagame leader but with those stats it might be at the very least worth keeping and eye out

Other things it can do:

Pick your donor (Spectrier) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator/Dry Skin/Illution/Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Whatever

Many mons give the combination of shadow ball, focus blast, and Nasty Plot, including the slow twins (Regenerator) Toxicroark, Jynx (Dry Skin), Zoroark (Illution), and Alakazam (Magic Guard). Last moveslot can be whatever; could be Ice Beam to hit Goodra and Mandibuzz harder, or maybe Taunt, or recovery, or maybe ditch the good ability in exchange for rapid spin (Mr. Rime) or Defog (Shiftry). Or....

Butterfree (Spectrier) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder

Balanced Quiver Dance! Butterfree is the only one with QD and Shadow Ball, but thats enough. Tinted Lens isn't needed; You will be needing a coverage move for normals anyways, and getting a more accurate balanced Sleep Powder is always good, although tinted shadow ball does hit mandibuzz harder.

Also:
Raikou (Spectrier) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt

Having volt switch on your special attacker of choice is a trip. Dragalge does give flip turn+ adapt, but having your pivoting move come from your strong side is very cool
 
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Chazm

Ch
is a Tiering Contributor
Blaziken (as a donor) and Kartana are now banned.

Blaziken needs no introduction on how busted it is. With Speed Boost, its expansive movepool and access to multiple high power moves as well as Swords Dance easily pushes most physical attackers like Landorus-Therian over the edge without much trouble. The lack of ways to deal with Blaziken donors outside of priority is troubling, and because of this I have decided to pre-emptively quickban Blaziken as a donor.

Kartana is another stupendously strong threat that has recently been unshackled. With new donors like Lycanroc-Dusk giving it even more power through Close Combat & Sucker Punch, Rillaboom giving it an insanely powerful 181 Attack 91 BP priority STAB, and Dhelmise donors, Kartana is effectively unwallable in its purest form. I see absolutely no reason that Kartana will ever be balanced in Inheritance and thus I will be quickbanning Kartana from the Inheritance metagame.

e: Regigigas & Kyurem-Black are also banned. This one should need no explanation - their base stats are just too high.

We will also be resetting our banlist, freeing Magearna, Blissey & Chansey.

Details to come at a later date, likely later today.

Tagging Kris to implement these changes.
 
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Chazm

Ch
is a Tiering Contributor
Regieleki and Butterfree (as a donor) are now banned from Inheritance.

Regieleki is unlikely to come as a surprise to many as its blistering Speed as well as insane versatility in sets make it a very difficult Pokemon to deal with consistently. Additionally, its ridiculous Speed allows it to safely invest into both Special Attack and Attack making mixed sets significantly more deadly unlike Zeraora.

:ss/butterfree:

Butterfree's donation capabilities were something that was legal during the DLC 1 metagame but something that the Inheritance council decided was not worth keeping in the metagame for its uncompetitive capabilities to sleep its opponents and set up extremely difficult to stop Quiver Dance sweeps. Along with this, Celesteela is now legal and so the best Vivillon donor of Gen 7 is back in business, making this Pokemon significantly more dangerous.

And...

The council is holding a vote on whether or not to ban Unaware or Stored Power.

Stored Power has in recent metagame history been a very powerful tool for a lot of setup sweepers to abuse - for one, a considerable amount of Comfey donors abuse the move and other setup such as Unaware Clefable donors and co generally mess with the tier's resists, often forcing Haze on teams or a considerable amount of offensive pressure. However, I also believe that a lot of the SP usage is promoted by Unaware being ridiculously powerful as an anti-setup ability and forcing a lot of sweepers into abusing SP because of the lack of ways to get around them. With Cresselia, Chansey & Blissey dropping into the tier, I feel like it is finally time to determine whether this phazing ability is worth the impact it has on the metagame or not. Banning SP means that Comfey & co are easier to handle but banning Unaware means that sweepers will not have to change up their movepools to intentionally run SP and free up space in the builder.

Discuss these two aspects below.
 
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It seems as if this may not be implemented if it is still intended to be(?)

For example, the following team passes the Inheritance validator:-

Volcarona
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot

Grookey
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Leaf Storm
- Nasty Plot

But according the /ds command, these sets should only be legal on Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Mow, respectively.
Is this fixed yet?
 

Chazm

Ch
is a Tiering Contributor
Unaware & Spectrier are now banned.

Unaware

Unaware has been a controversial aspect for some time now, but the council has decided that due to its overwhelming centralization and the ability to break some otherwise healthy walls like Cresselia, Chansey & Blissey, the ability is unlikely to be healthy overall and should be banned. We decided this over a Stored Power ban as Unaware prompted more use of Stored Power itself to break past those sorts of walls and this instead should help with the issue of insanely powerful wallbreakers overrunning the metagame because Unaware breaks some walls.

Spectrier

Spectrier's insanely good stat spread as well as its excellent Ghost typing has lead to multiple issues in building when dealing with it. Not only can it pull off Sheer Force sets like Gengar can but it is also an incredibly good user of Slowking donors and RegenPlot as a result. This ability to stay alive vs most balance teams and still wreak havoc with its powerful STAB & coverage are what made the council consider it to be over the edge in performance.

Tagging Kris to implement.
 
Regidrago! :regidrago:
Hiya! Just thought I'd drop a cute set from a donator that's easy to dismiss and ignore.
Both of the new regis are extremely lacking in their movepool, but what if you only need one move? :mehowth:
Enter, Dragon Energy, effectively a dragon water spout. This is compounded by Dragon's Maw, an ability which yields 12% more damage than Adaptability. Pair with specs and you have a little problem for your opponent.
Drampa @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Energy
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
- Explosion
- Filler

Please peruse the following calcs. Unless you are a fairy, it is not very delightful to switch into this mon.

Max Spdef Neutral: :toxapex:
Drampa's Dragon Energy vs 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 348-411 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Drampa's Draco Meteor vs 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 303-357 (99.6 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Resist: :heatran:
Drampa's Dragon Energy vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 295-348 (91.3 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Max Spdef Resist: :heatran:
Drampa's Dragon Energy vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 214-252 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Blissey: :blissey:
Drampa's Dragon Energy vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 394-465 (56 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

RegiDrampa is well suited for use on a trick room team. One cute combo is to utilize an acceptor of Audino (trick room/encore/healing wish with Regenerator) as well as a physical attacker such as stakataka, which can run its standard attack boosting set here.

The one main issue here, obviously, is that fairies can get a free switch in. This is a problem for any choice locked mon, but particularly for one with no chip moves. RegiDrampa does not have much besides explosion that could deter fairies, and this is generally better served for its role in late game TR control anyhow. Fortunately, poison types match very well (taking both fighting and fairy, threatening fairies, and laying tspikes to potentially wear them down). Optimally, you will have removed opposing fairies, from an opponent expecting SFLO, before actually revealing your drampa as RegiDrampa, destroyer of teams.

ps i hope you're doing well<3
 
So I was messing around with pex for a while in the teambuilder when a combination for Toxic + Roost appeared legal on a pokemon with Regenerator. So I searched on the teambuilder and Ho-oh pops up. So then I make this and...
Screenshot_20210109-103725_Chrome.jpg

I can inherit from Ho-Oh which is not allowed. So then I figured Ho-Oh must be legal for this to happen. And...
Screenshot_20210109-103753_Chrome.jpg

Might want to fix this I guess...
 

Chazm

Ch
is a Tiering Contributor
Unaware & Spectrier are now banned.

Unaware

Unaware has been a controversial aspect for some time now, but the council has decided that due to its overwhelming centralization and the ability to break some otherwise healthy walls like Cresselia, Chansey & Blissey, the ability is unlikely to be healthy overall and should be banned. We decided this over a Stored Power ban as Unaware prompted more use of Stored Power itself to break past those sorts of walls and this instead should help with the issue of insanely powerful wallbreakers overrunning the metagame because Unaware breaks some walls.
You know this thing?

Yeah, we decided to revert the ban on Unaware. I was being too naive about this one and realistically should have waited a while before this was "voted" on. Whilst it does indeed effect some of the major walls the reasoning for it being banned so early, especially when it was fine in the prior two metagames isn't really something that makes sense tiering wise, and thus I have decided to revert this decision. After discussing this with the council again, the general consensus that came to mind was that Unaware was fine as an ability. I am open to suspect it again, if this issue does come up further down in tiering, but this naive quickban from me was a mistake that I fully realize now. So:

Unaware is now unbanned from Inheritance.

Additionally, we are currently discussing internally whether to disconnect from the OU banlist in order to bring in some potential Ubers, and unifying the banlists to include both donors and inheritors, to avoid confusion. Discussion sparked by the post above has given me some insight into whether or not to keep our attachment to OU or not and potentially allow in some Ubers, although the only one we have considered is Galarian Darmanitan. With all things considered, this is more of a policy for later incase Pokemon like Cinderace get banned from OU, which would otherwise be fine in Inheritance.
 

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