Introducing.. bulky Shuca Lucario?

[Epic Cherubi]

Yeah, I know there's a "rate my one pokemon" topic, but those never get any real attention.

@ Shuca Berry
Adamant
196 HP / 252 Attack / 60 Speed

Swords Dance
Close Combat
Extremespeed
Crunch / Stone Edge / Ice Punch

Let me explain the concept behind this set. In todays metagame everything is built around outrunning Lucario. If it can outrun Lucario, and conceivably tangle with the metal jackal it probably will run enough speed to do so. Things slower then Lucario such as defensive Suicune, Scizor and Steel-trapping Magnezone do not even hit Lucario's minimum speed due to how pointless it is to sacrifice bulk. In other words, 252 Speed Lucario wastes a lot of energy outspeeding things that don't exist. This set runs 60 speed to outrun 88 speed Rotom. You may drop all the speed if you'd like, since you aren't missing out on anything. The idea behind this bulky Lucario is to survive its counters hits long enough to overwhelm them with Swords Dances. Swords Dance as they switch out, SD again as the counter fails to OHKO, then viciously retaliate. +4 Lucario with no item hits with about 125% the power of a +2 Life Orb Lucario. Here are some calculations! (min / max (average))

(If I write "OHKO" it means 100% minimum. All ground attacks assume Shuca Berry and the opponent switching in as you Swords Dance.)

Jolly

EQ - 41.82% - 49.39% (45.45%)
+4 Extremespeed - 55.65% - 65.54% (60.17%)
+2 Ice Punch - OHKO
*Gliscor remains a counter assuming you lack Ice Punch. But with Ice Punch you always win.

Timid 80 SA

Heat Wave - 75.76% - 89.70% (82.42%)
+4 Extremespeed - 76.04% - 89.58% (82.29%)
*With Stealth Rocks down Zapdos is guarenteed a OHKO. Run Sandstorm to make sure Leftovers don't ruin this.

Impish

Earthquake - 48.48% - 57.27% (52.12%)
+4 Close Combat - 87.38% - 103.10% (94.52%)
+2 Ice Punch - 48.57% - 57.62% (52.86%)
*.. what the fuck is up with this. Does Hippowdon even KNOW he's being hit with a +2 super effective hit and NOT being 2HKOed? All the same, +4 Close Combat does heavy damage. Should it be damaged at all it risks being KOed.

Adamant CB

Bullet Punch - 32.73% - 38.79% (35.45%)
+2 Close Combat - 110.76% - 130.23% (119.77%)
*Survive its Bullet Punch and wreck it. Should you have previously taken an Earthquake (from Gliscor or Hippo), you will also survive this Bullet Punch too.

Spinner

Surf - 41.82% - 49.39% (45.45%)
Modest Scarfmie's Surf - 57.58% - 68.18% (62.73%)
Modest Specsmie's Surf - 86.67% - 102.12% (93.94%)
+2 Extremespeed (vs Spinner) - 84.46% - 99.66% (91.55%)
+4 Extremespeed (vs Spinner) - 126.01% - 148.99% (136.82%)
*Specsmie's Surf can't OHKO on average. Should you know its set beforehand, you should be able to wreck it with little threat to yourself.

(+0) LO DD

Earthquake - 58.18% - 68.79% (63.03%)
Mixmence Flamethrower - OHKO..
DD Mence Flamethrower - 80.00% - 94.55% (86.67%)
-1 Ice Punch - 77.34% - 91.84% (83.38%)
-1 Stone Edge - 51.36% - 61.03% (55.59%)
+1 Stone Edge - OHKO
+3 Extremespeed - 77.34% - 91.24% (83.69%)
*You are playing a dangerous game against mixmence. If it Flamethrowers you die. However, should it do anything else (even Brick Break) you will live to pull off a second Swords Dance and OHKO (you DO have Stealth Rocks down right?)

LO

EQ - 61.52% - 72.42% (66.36%)
LO Gyarados Waterfall - 73.94% - 87.27% (80.00%)
-1 Stone Edge - 51.96% - 61.63% (56.19%)
+1 Stone Edge - OHKO
+3 Extremespeed - 78.25% - 92.15% (84.59%)
*In other words, Gyarados will lose even if you lack Stone Edge. "Crodos" will not be able to land a 2HKO as you Swords Dance in its face. Only bulkydos has a chance, and Stone Edge will end its dreams.

Timid Scarf

HP Fire - 61.82% - 73.33% (67.27%)
+0 Close Combat - OHKO lol
*Fuck it up. Only Timid Specs Magnezone with max speed can win against you. It will obviously never switch in.

Earthquake - 47.58% - 56.36% (51.82%)
+2 Close Combat - 73.02% - 86.14% (78.96%)
+4 Close Combat - OHKO
*Kill it with plenty of health left over.

Dynamic Punch - OHKO duh
+2 Close Combat - OHKO (even bulky Rest/Talk)
*Obviously, don't let it hit you.

Surf - 38.18% - 44.85% (40.80%)
+1 Suicune Surf - 56.67% - 67.27% (61.82%)
LO Suicune Surf - 63.94% - 75.45% (69.09%)
+2 Close Combat - 61.88% - 73.02% (67.08%)
+4 Close Combat - 92.82% - 109.41% (100.50%)
+2 Close Combat (vs LO) - 90.35% - 106.43% (97.66%)
*Generally, you will rip it apart. Defensive Suicune is setup bait as you easily reach +6. Offensive is more dangerous, but you can still carve into it with a +2 Close Combat.

Jolly LO

Mach Punch - 60.00% - 70.91% (64.24%)
+2 Extremespeed - 77.13% - 90.78% (83.28%)
*Stealth Rocks and Life Orb means Infernape dies.

Adamant

Earthquake - 73.03% - 86.36% (79.09%)
+0 Close Combat - OHKO
+2 Extremespeed - 56.79% - 67.04% (61.50%)
+4 Extremespeed - 85.04% - 100.28% (92.24%)
*CB Mamowsine will OHKO, and LO Mamoswine will OHKO 66% of the time. Is still not bad odds when you consider it will never switch in.

Bold

HP Fire - 32.73% - 38.79% (35.15%)
Bold Cresselia Psychic - 30.91% - 36.67% (33.64%)
+2 Crunch - 48.65% - 57.66% (52.70%)
+4 Crunch - 72.97% - 86.04% (78.83%)
+6 Crunch - 96.85% - 114.41% (104.95%)
*A testimate to Cresselia's amazing durability when a +6 super effective move can not always OHKO. However, should Stealth Rocks or Sandstorm be active Cresselia is in great danger of a swift 2HKO. Thunder Wave is a bastard of a move, but Extremespeed can help to negate that.

Overheat - OHKO
+2 Crunch - 76.97% - 90.79% (82.89%)
+4 Crunch - OHKO
*You beat every form barring Heat Form. Its important to note that you do indeed outpace most of them, so should they take minimal damage (Pursuit!) it is an easy KO. Unless its scarfed, of course.

Earthquake - 29.09% - 34.55% (31.52%)
+2 Crunch - 68.03% - 80.27% ( 73.47%)
+4 Crunch - OHKO
*Easy KO as long as it doesn't Will-O-Wisp you. Earthquake 3HKOs back on average, which is amazing considering this is a Lucario sponging.. Earthquakes.

Thats all the useful calculations that come to the top of my head. While you can no longer outspeed Timid Heatran, it will obviously never switch in on you. Even then, should it Earth Power you will survive and OHKO.

 

[wildfire393]

Interesting. However, Scarfed Rotom-H is my favorite counter to Lucario, and ScarfTran is a good one as well, and this does nothing to beat either of those. If it could take a Rotom-H Overheat and KO back with a +2 Crunch, it'd be worth using. Any way its EVs can support that kind of bulkirness, or would it take an Occa Berry?

 

[Epic Cherubi]

Interesting. However, Scarfed Rotom-H is my favorite counter to Lucario, and ScarfTran is a good one as well, and this does nothing to beat either of those. If it could take a Rotom-H Overheat and KO back with a +2 Crunch, it'd be worth using. Any way its EVs can support that kind of bulkirness, or would it take an Occa Berry?

Yes. Running something like 180 Special Defense and 76 HP allows you to survive Timid Rotom Overheat while still maxing attack. But running that spread hurts Lucario's ability to sponge other hits.

To survive Heatran on the other hand, he would need an Occa Berry.

 

[Puffern]

This is very interesting...a working bulky Lucario. If people started to use this, Rotom-H, Scarftran, and Scarfchamp would see a lot more usage. I hate lucario and this set kind of makes me want to use him.

Very, very nice sir.

 

[RegalStar]

Keep in mind that this set loses against any non-scarf Heatran that max speed, so you'll need something else to take care of that.

 

[Zach]

Keep in mind that this set loses against any non-scarf Heatran that max speed, so you'll need something else to take care of that.

Blissey + Ghost (for the explosion)

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

nice set, i can see how this could work very well

 

[Flashstorm1]

Have you tested Dual Screens with this? It sounds like this set has the potential to become a top contender along with the standard Swords Dance set.

 

[Ash Borer]

jesus, this metagame doesnt need more incredibly potent threats.

Nice work though.

 

[Thund91]

It might be because I never play OU, or because i'm a bit slow today, but I don't get the advantage of this set. Can someone explain a bit more? :/

 

[Thisaccountwashackedlol]

It might be because I never play OU, or because i'm a bit slow today, but I don't get the advantage of this set. Can someone explain a bit more? :/

It goes something like this:

You switch Lucario into a Pokemon that cannot hurt it.
They switch out to their counter, that (hopefully) uses Earthquake to deal with Lucario. Meanwhile you Swords Dance and gain +2 attack.
You Swords Dance for another +2 attack, bringing the total to +4. They Earthquake, Shuca Berry activates allowing you to survive with a reasonable amount of health.
You attack them with +4 attack. +4 Lucario with no item hits with about 125% the power of a +2 Life Orb Lucario.
You now can (hopefully) sweep their team with Extremespeed. If you outspeed one of their Pokemon feel free to use Close Combat/other move.

It can be deadly. I'm currently testing it and am satisfied with the results.

 

[Stellar]

Or you could... uh.. just use Life Orb and hit for 100% of Life Orb Lucario after SDing on the switch without sacrificing 80% of your health to Earthquake to gain an extra 25%. Not only that, but you hit a lot harder if you don't have the opportunity to SD.

 

[lone]

Gengar has the potential to give this guy real problems. Focus Blast, although it has shoddy accuracy, is an easy 1HKO that you can only pray misses. Hypnosis has worse accuracy but deserves a mention, and after a CC Thunderbolt begins to look nice for a more accurate counter, although you need Specs for it to be a 1HKO. HP Fire is also a 1HKO after the defense drop, a move not unheard of on Gengar.

Although I am apprehensive to call a move with 70% accuracy a counter, Gengar would be my preferred method of dealing with Lucario. Still, the concept is a good one and I'll keep a eye open for anyone trying to pull this stunt on me.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I don't see the need to use all of those defensive EVs when you are just going to be lowering your defenses anyways with Close Combat. After you use Close Combat once, all of those Defensive EVs and the lack of Life Orb is going to hurt you. The entire reason why Lucario is so dangerous is because it only needs one turn to set up...but then you waste that? I don't see it.

You lose so many KOs by not using Life Orb, just to take one extra hit...but you need to Swords Dance twice instead of once to be effective. Instead of taking two turns to set up, you can completely avoid situations just by using Life Orb and max Speed to KO things before they can even hit you. You basically proved how ineffective this set is by listing all of those damage calculations where Life Orb gets you OHKOs while this set requires you to take 80% just to set up. Lucario NEEDS a Life Orb or else it can't break stall. Things like Skarmory and Hippowdon laugh at non-LO Luke.

You also don't seem to understand the basic concept that two attacks at +2 does more damage than one attack at +4.

On top of that, why post a thread when there is already a "new movesets" thread on the front page?

 

[Caelum]

Creative Moveset Thread. Use it. I don't think shuca berry is a great item anyway, but whatever.