XY UU Is Haxorus the Garchomp of UU ? 1st edit made!

[MaTucci]

Hey guys, is everything alright ?
This is my third RMT, but my first UU RMT (and pratically my first UU team). I started playing competitively this gen, but I only played OU matches. I created a really nice team, that got me to 1600 mark on PS, and a ratio like 65:35 in the first 100 matches (you can see it here). But when I discovered the UU tier, and started to play it, I just stopped playing OU games, because there's almost no uncounterable pokemons, and everytime you face a different team, with different pokemons, breaking the pattern that exists in OU, that you almost face the exact same team over and over...

I have not played a lot of matches with this team, and I think that I'm 27/13 and at 1400 in my main account, which is not a good result. But since I recently started playing UU matches, I really don't know what to switch and how to fix the main problems of my team (which I'll list in the end of this RMT).

Enough talking, let's go to the team:

Got rid of Azelf

Azelf@Focus Sash
Hasty - Levitate
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Psychic
Explosion
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Well, I was needing a lead, and found Azelf. Azelf is usually my lead, unless I see another Azelf or a Sableye in the opposing team (if I see any of those, I'll just lead with my Sableye to Taunt/WoW it). It's really nice to have access to such a fast Taunt, SR helps too, but since it can easily be Defog, a lot of times I just go straight for the kill and avoid laying hazard. Psychic is there for STAB and Explosion is to deal as much damage as possible after I'm left with 1%. The main problem with a suicide lead is that you almost always start the game with 1 pokemon less. Sableye totally counter this set, and other pokemons take low damage from this set aswell. I feel Azelf is one of the weak spots in this team, he's good, but not that good, and most of the times he's not even useful. I was thinking maybe switching Psychic to Knock Off, to avoid being walled by a lot of stuff, or maybe even swapping him for a Empoleon, which could be another wall for this team, while being able to lay hazards or defog them (which my team sometimes need, and I don't have) and being able to take the fairies that hit SE againt half of my team.
Thinking about:
- If I'm keeping Azelf, change Psychic to Knock Off.
- Getting another lead, or just changing to a pokemon that can do his job better, or a pokemon with a different role, that fits this team better.

Empoleon@Leftovers
Calm - Torrent
252 SpD/252 HP/4 SpA
Scald
Ice Beam
Stealth Rock
Defog

I was using Azelf as my suicide, but starting the match 5vs6 is just plain terrible. Got Empoleon instead, and he's doing his job pretty well. He serves as my special wall, hazard remover and hazard setter after my opponent's hazard setter is already down. Being able to get rid of hazards is amazing, and has helped my team a lot. The EV spread and moveset is almost the only possible, only doubt is if I keep Ice Beam to nail Dragons, but specially Grass types like Shaymin that tries to kill me with Seed Flare, or if I should switch it for Flash Cannon, to nail opposing Fairies. Might even use Roar instead of the second attack, but don't know if it's really worth it.
Thinking about:
- Which move to use? Ice Beam, Flash Cannon or Roar ?

Sableye@Leftovers
Calm Careful - Prankster
252 HP/252 SpD/4 HP
Foul Play Knock Off
Will-o-Wisp
Taunt
Recover

I have never used Sableye before, and always hated to play against it. But when I started using it, I realized how good he is. He can wall a lot of stuff, break walls with his prankster Taunt/Recover and can even tank hit efficiently. The EV spread is to tank special attacks, because I have a physical wall (Aromatisse), and since I have access to priority WoW, I can take physical hit more easily. I feel the defensive core (Sableye+Aromatisse) is weak, I'm thinking about using Sableye as a physical and Empoleon as special wall, but I'll get to that later. Foul Play is used instead of Knock Off to hit hard physical attacker that might come in to kill me, but I really don't see that use to him. I might go for a different nature and stick with Knock Off. I'm even thinking about puting 4 EVs in Speed to speed creep and Taunt other Sableyes.
1st edit: Changed the nature to Careful, and got Knock Off instead of Foul Play, since it's just more useful than Foul Play, and Foul Play was not hitting hard anything. Also gave up on changing the EV spread, since specially defensive, with WoW to cripple the physical attacker makes it a good wall.

Aromatisse@Leftovers
Bold - Aroma Veil
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Moonblast
Aromatherapy
Wish
Protect

Aromatisse is my physical wall, it does his job well, but most of the times I switch in to take a hit, the opponent changes to something that won't take that much from my Moonblast, and that's it, I need to switch out. I feel this set is really weak, it can takes hit but do nothing back, and I almost always send him to take get killed, and send something to revenge kill it. I almost never get the chance to use/pass wishes, and a status would help a lot with this set, that's why I'm thinking about changing Wish to Toxic. This pokemon, with Azelf, I feel that is the weak link in this team, he rarely does something efficient. I like the pressure it puts in Dark pokemons, and being able to be sent in to a Haxorus trapped on a Outrage or something like that really helps my team. As I said, I feel my defensive core is weak, I'm really thinking about making Sableye the physical and using Empoleon as the special wall, but I really don't know if that's a good idea.
1st edit: Decided to keep Aromatisse, and realized the role he has on my team, will keep everything as it is, and I'll try to get better at pokemon to use the wish passing more.

Haxorus@Lum Berry
Jolly - Mold Breaker
252 Att/240 Spe/16 HP
Outrage
Earthquake
Swords Dance Poison Jab
Dragon Dance

I need to start saying that Haxorus was the main reason I liked playing UU matches. I just love Garchomp, and Scarfchomp was the MVP of my most successful team, and Haxorus plays pretty much like him, but instead of outspeeding things by surprise, it just sets up and sweeps entire teams. Whenever I see the opponent with a faster pokemon than Haxorus, I send him in, and Dragon Dance in the switch, being able to outspeed the treat, and if the opponent sents a status spreader to face Haxorus, I can even SD to boost even more my attack, and then procced to Outrage the rest of his team. The main reason for this EV spread is to outspeed Scarf Darmatian after a DD, and the rest put into HP. The attacks are pretty straightforward too, double dance to use depending on the opposing team (if there no faster treat, I just SD on the switch), while EQ hits a lot, Poison Jab is there to nail those Fairies that dare to switch against me and Outrage just destroy anything that doesn't resist it. Sometimes I really wished I had Dragon Claw, being able to switch moves and not get killed/crippled by Steel/Fairy types, but I can't really give Outrage away, his power is just too big.
1st edit: Got rid of Swords Dance, since it was pointed out (by a lot of guys) that it's pointless. Just chunked Poison Jab in, to destroy the fairies that try to switch in and wall my Haxorus.

Mienshao@Choice Scarf
Jolly - Reckless
252 Att/252 Spe/4 HP
High Jump Kick
Knock Off
U-Turn
Stone Edge

When I first started using Mienshao I was surprise how good he is. This pokemon is an amazing revenge killer, and sometimes I can get a lot of surprise kills if the opponent doesn't know if I'm scarfed or LO. The EV spread is just all in Spe/Att, but I think I can tweak it a little, because I can't remember anything that might be faster than Jolly Haxorus after a DD, and 196 EVs in Speed is necessary to outspeed it, and the rest (62) can be used in HP, to make him a little bit more bulkier, but I don't know if those points in HP would make a difference. I'm not sure too about the ability, I know Reckless makes the HJP as deadly as possible, but does it really gets OHKOs/2HKOs that I would not get if I was using Regenerator ? The moves are for coverage, HJK being the primary kill button, Knock Off when I know the opponent is going to switch to a Psychic/Ghost type to tank the HJK, U-Turn is used if I just want to come in, make some damage and change to something that can tank the hit that was meant to Mienshao to take, and Stone Edge is there to nail flying/fire types.
1st edit: Realized the small increase in bulk I'd get by switching the EV spread meant nothing, and even meant I'll get outspeed by other Scarfed Mienshaos. Also keeping Reckless as my ability, since I'll try to make a better use of the wish passing Aromatisse has.

Got rid of Houndoom

Houndoom@Houndoominite
Hasty - Flash Fire
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Dark Pulse
Fire Blast
Flame Charge
Nasty Plot

Houndoom is my mega, and my main special attacker. He's really good in his role, being able to switch in scarf locked Darmatians or Infernapes on a fire move, getting the Flash Fire boost and Nasty Plot on the switch makes him a deadly weapon, the problem is that a Mach Punch or a scarfed attack from a Mienshao or any other faster pokemon with EQ, easily OHKO Houndoom, making him a lot of the times, not that useful. The EV spread is the only one possible, while running Hasty because I'm using Flame Charge, which if predict correctly can make Houndoom outspeed even scarfed fast pokemons. I was using Sucker Punch instead of Flame Charge, but both of them don't get that much use, so I don't know which one is better. The problem with Houndoom is that he's just another Fairy weak pokemon in my team, while being weak to pretty common attacks in the metagame, EQ and Scald. I think I could easily swap him another pokemon, not necessarily another mega, and just rearrange the team.
Thinking about:
- Using Sucker Punch instead of Flame Charge
- Changing him for a more useful pokemon

Chandelure@Life Orb
Timid - Flash Fire
Shadow Ball
Fire Blast
Substitute
Pain Split

I was using Mega-Houndoom but he was just meeh, couldn't really use him, and he was always almost OHKO by random attacks. Chandelure is a good addition to the team, I can send him up (specially when there's something locked on a fire move to get the flash fire boost), sub on the switch, and start spamming Fire Blasts or Shadow Ball, and when I'm almost dead I can get a lot of people surprised by using Pain Split. The EV spread, item and moves are pretty straightforward, both of the attacks being his strongest STAB moves, Substitute and Pain Split to wear down opposing team. The biggest problem with him, is that he shares the same EQ weakness as Houndoom had, and Dark attacks are pretty common in this metagame, specially when he has not a really good base speed.
Thinking about:
- Changing the set to a more offensive presence (maybe Scarfed).
- Changing him to another pokemon, like Rotom-H, which would still have the fire resistance, but with Levitate can be easily switched in EQs. But I really don't know what set to use on Rotom-H


Final considerations:

Thank you for reading my first UU RMT, it's really fun to play in this tier, but I'm feeling a little difficulty playing in this metagame with this team, that's why I came to you.
Main problem with this team is:
- 4 out of my 6 pokemons are weak to Fairy Attacks, and I can't do anything to revenge kill the Fairies that switch into me.
That's why I was thinking that the major changes to this team would be: (But please, I'm open to any suggestion/criticism, just tell me what you think, because I really need any help)
- Aromatisse to SpD Empoleon (with Defog and no SR, because most of the times getting rid of hazards is better than having them on both sides of the field).
- Sableye to a physical defensive spread.
- Changing Azelf to a more useful lead, or just another useful pokemon for this team, because Azelf most of the times is just a dead weight in this team.
- Changing Mega-Houndoom for another pokemon, no need for even a mega, just another thing that would help me. Maybe changing Azelf and Houndoom, and getting a defensive/support mega and another special attacker instead of Houndoom.
Will updated it as soons as I play some games with the first batch of edits in this team.

Thanks for any suggestion you might give, and thanks for just even reading it.

 

[Sam White]

Okay, honest opinion here, the team doesnt seem to have much synergy. Nothing here wants to take a moonblast. Nothing wants to take a water or ice type move if on same pokemon. Nobody wants to take on a crobat. So personally, i personally think i have a team thrown together with more synergy then this one. First off, i think a trevenant and empoleon core is much much better than your current core. First off, you know that now you have a stealth rocker and defoger, and a partner who has great synergy with him. So, id scrap aromatisse and Azelf for them 2. Trevenant isnt the best pokemon but it always seems to pull through. But okay, understand this. "YUNoRoost?" is my favorite nickname for empoleon, because outside of rest, it doesnt have recovery. So once empoleon goes down, what stops crobat? Maybe you could burn it, but do you want it switching in on a brave bird. Personally i think rotom heat would be better for the team then mega houndoom. And if you really want that dark type that much then i would suggest scrafty instead of mienshao, but that makes you a bulkier team without much speed so its your choice. But if you were to keep your current team...
1. you dont need 2 dances on Hax. I would suggest DD and poison jab (Bye Florges)
2. Azelf needs to go, personally suicide leads are wastes. Down 6-5 immediately is no fun. Especially since this lead doesnt have u-turn

 

[Master B8s]

Pretty interesting team here, some suggestions. Haxorus has swords dance and dragon dance, he doesn't need both of them considering he really needs the coverage move like poison jab, only use one, i personally would use dragon dance as its in my opinion one of the best boosting moves in the game and replace swords dance with poison jab for fairies or rock slide for ice types. Aromatisse from the spread you're use is for a cleric, florgess makes a a much better cleric in UU because it has better special bulk and a higher SpA. Finally if you're using a Houndoom, take the 4 points out of HP and put it in a defense stat. The Hp should be an odd number for stealth rock weak pokemon because it can switch into an extra stealth rock, its a small detail but its something. But if you want a new fire type, i suggest AV Entei for a bulky fire type, or Infernape for a fast fire type. If you really want a mega, I suggest Mega Ampharos because your team lacks a good special attacker if you replace mega houndoom. If you want sets I'm more than happy to give you some:]

 

[Sam White]

Pretty interesting team here, some suggestions. Haxorus has swords dance and dragon dance, he doesn't need both of them considering he really needs the coverage move like poison jab, only use one, i personally would use dragon dance as its in my opinion one of the best boosting moves in the game and replace swords dance with poison jab for fairies or rock slide for ice types. Aromatisse from the spread you're use is for a cleric, florgess makes a a much better cleric in UU because it has better special bulk and a higher SpA. Finally if you're using a Houndoom, take the 4 points out of HP and put it in a defense stat. The Hp should be an odd number for stealth rock weak pokemon because it can switch into an extra stealth rock, its a small detail but its something. But if you want a new fire type, i suggest AV Entei for a bulky fire type, or Infernape for a fast fire type. If you really want a mega, I suggest Mega Ampharos because your team lacks a good special attacker if you replace mega houndoom. If you want sets I'm more than happy to give you some:]

1.) Reason he chose Aromatisse is it serves as physical wall and has more HP and Def
2.) I wouldnt suggest Mega Amp though i LOVE it because another dragon, which means more ice and fair weakness

 

[Master B8s]

1.) Reason he chose Aromatisse is it serves as physical wall and has more HP and Def
2.) I wouldnt suggest Mega Amp though i LOVE it because another dragon, which means more ice and fair weakness

I was just suggesting another mega cause i personally like using a mega since you can only use one on a team, why not use it.

 

[ChaosKi]

Hey there buddy quite the team you have here. :]

First things first, as you've realized Empoleon would be a glorious fit to your team,and in my opinion should replace your suicide lead, allowing you to get up rocks multiple times as well as giving your team hazard control.
Empoleon@Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
252 HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
Nature: +Spd, -Atk
Ivs: 0 Atk
Scald
Defog
Stealth Rocks
Ice Beam/Grass Knot

A pretty standard set but it'll do wonders as opposed to Azelf

Sableye I believe you should keep as is because with will-o-wisp you get a decent mixed bulk, without it, you can get taken out by the many special attackers in the tier, despite the priority recover, Knock off is a nice choice however because it gives sabelye more utility.

Aromatisse should keep Wish it's actually imperitive that it does or else it's pretty useless. Wish allows it to be a great team player, instead of moon blasting on whatever poke is in against aroma, just use wish to heal up your next switch in, you have to play it like a white mage or it loses it's effectiveness only attack when necessary. If a Hydreigon or Scrafty Heracross or Meinshao is in they're most likely going to switch out, so go for wish on that turn. Aromatisse errors are usually by the player not the pokemon.

Haxorus Double dancing is sort of dumb, dragon dance alone is sufficient, speed is very important obiouvsly and a +2, +2 Haxorus is better than a +3, +1 Haxorus, it's not like it's streatching for attack power by any means. And now you safely out speed Scarf Raikou and Mienshao after 2 DD's instead of them coming to stop the sweep, replace Sword's dance with Poison Jab for fairies and you're good to go. :)

You should definitely keep Mienshao's EVs as is, the bulk isn't very helpful and the speed lets you at the very least speed tie with other Mienshao, you also shouldn't need to use regenerator when you have a well played Aromatisse, it's simply unnecessary.

Houndoom I believe is out classed by Chandelure as a special attacker is tier due to an overall better typing on Chandy's part. I recommend a sub split Chandelure, as it has decent healing in pain split and the same coverage that Houndoom has.

Chandelure Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: +SpA, -Atk
Ivs: 0 Atk
Fire Blast
Shadow Ball
Substitute
Pain Split

The premise is simple, force a switch go for sub instead of attacking and then blast what comes in with a mighty STAB attack, Pain split to restore health when behind a sub.

Hopefully I helped :)

 

[Pinkin Lark]

Pretty interesting team here, some suggestions. Haxorus has swords dance and dragon dance, he doesn't need both of them considering he really needs the coverage move like poison jab, only use one, i personally would use dragon dance as its in my opinion one of the best boosting moves in the game and replace swords dance with poison jab for fairies or rock slide for ice types. Aromatisse from the spread you're use is for a cleric, florgess makes a a much better cleric in UU because it has better special bulk and a higher SpA. Finally if you're using a Houndoom, take the 4 points out of HP and put it in a defense stat. The Hp should be an odd number for stealth rock weak pokemon because it can switch into an extra stealth rock, its a small detail but its something. But if you want a new fire type, i suggest AV Entei for a bulky fire type, or Infernape for a fast fire type. If you really want a mega, I suggest Mega Ampharos because your team lacks a good special attacker if you replace mega houndoom. If you want sets I'm more than happy to give you some:]

If you want to make the argument "X is a better Cleric than Y", you're always going to end at Blissey, as it can pass wishes that will full heal most Pokemon, soak up status at little cost, and can soak Special hits like it's nothing. Aromatisse is good because it is generally capable of taking hits from either side, while serving as a solid cleric, more so thanks to its protection vs. Taunt.

As everyone has already mentioned, you don't need the Double Dance on Haxorus. Just losing out on coverage(Whimsicott completely walls you). Add a move like Poison Jab and he will be a lot better off.

With Houndoom... eh.... I tried mucking about with Mega-Houndoom for a bit, and he either does amazing work, getting a NP and proceeding to wreck shop, or he just gets 1HKO'd by any number of things that manage to outspeed him. And just a small note: Houndoom isn't weak to Fairy, he's neutral. If you want similar power, you could change for a Chandalure or a Rotom-H, the latter of which gives you a VoltTurn combo.

Knock Off vs Foul Play seems to be personal preference on Sableye, so go with what you feel works better.

I'm personally not a fan of suicide lead Azelf, just because it puts you down a 'mon, unless they keep something frail in against the Explosion, while some teams can completely play around it. Plus, when you combine it with the Sableye, you have two slots without much power. Nidoqueen would also work well as a Rock setter, while giving you a bit more offensive pressure, plus some protection from the Fairy types your team isn't terribly fond of. Especially when you have that Scarf Mienshao, which works as a great scouting lead.

Just pretty much grabbing the set off the Dex:

Hide

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Quick Edit: If you do keep the Azelf, I'd suggest replacing Psychic with Knock Off and giving it 252 Atk EVs, boosting the damage of both it and Explosion.

 

[MaTucci]

I really really appreciate every reply I've had so far. You guys have helped me a lot. I know the team doesn't have a good synergy, that's why I came here asking for help, since I don't know much about the UU tier.
I would quote everybody, and answer each one individually, but that would take a lot of time, and since a lot of you guys just said the same thing, I'll just tell what I'll change:

- No more suicide Azelf. I'll replace him with Empoleon (with the set ChaosKi suggested, but with Flash Cannon instead of Ice Beam. But I'll try Ice Beam and see what will beneficiate the team more)
- Changing the Swords Dance to Poison Jab on Haxorus
- Keeping the EV spread for Sableye and Mienshao
- Knock off instead of Foul Play on Sableye
- I'll keep Aromatisse as it is, but I'll try Trevenant in it's place, just to see how it works
- Getting rid of Houndoom. I don't really need another mega, and I'm more keen on having Rotom-H instead of Chandelure as my substitute. But not sure on which set to use on Rotom-H. And I'll try Nidoqueen later instead of Houndoom

 

[MaTucci]

Updated the thread with new pokemons, and some new additional info.

 

[Master B8s]

If Chandelure is using a LO, you might want to try using sticky web or have a thunder waver around cause chandelures base 80 speed doesn't let it outspeed many things, but that depends if you're using him as a special wall breaker or not.

 

[ChaosKi]

1st edit: Decided to keep Aromatisse, and realized the role he has on my team, will keep everything as it is, and I'll try to get better at pokemon

Dead XD

First a small nitpick I'd simply remove the lines from the RMT as it's aesthetically unpleasent and makes it harder to read.
You also have 4 extra EVs in HP on Sableye, put them into speed like you were thinking as that's where it would be most useful, maybe even put 8 evs in (taking 4 from HP) to speed creep speed creeping sabelye, no more than that though.
Roar on Empoleon is actually a really good idea, you've nothing to really stop set up sweepers besides Taunt and Sabelye will probably die directly after, and Flash Cannon really isn't doing much to the specially defensive fairies of the tier.

Rotom H is a decent choice as it gives you a volt turn core and a ground immunity as well as Overheat hitting really hard. Choice Specs would be a good item in my opinion as it allows you to trick incomming walls (eg. Blissey, Florges, Umbreon etc..)

Rotom-H Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def
Nature: +SpA, -Atk
Ivs: 0 Atk
Overheat
Volt Switch
Hidden Power Grass
Trick

The Ev's aren't set in stone.
Liking how the team is coming around keep it up :]

 

[jjoshcja]

Things to consider:

Individual threats
Shamin, and CM waters.

Your team has nothing for Shamin, period, and CM bro/Crocune simply 6-0 you with even light damage on haxorous. At the very least you need a mon to tank LO seed flare, outspeed, and kill Shamin, you also need a dedicated answer to last mon crocune/Cmbro/TGmanaphy in general. Sabeye can check them to an extent but your leaning on it way too much. I would suggest dropping mienshao for this spot, as frankly even dedicated offense has pivots for Shao much less full stall making it more of a liability than anything.

Changes:

You have nothing with both immediate offensive presence and the potential to abuse the free turns that can provide. Swap Chandy to Sub CM to have access to a legitimate game ender for defensive teams and give hax a life orb to give it that immediate POWER vs offense and to abuse aromatisse wishpassing and heal bell vs more defensive teams. Swap Mienshao Scarf Jirachi or Scarf Celebi with trick.

 

[Sam White]

Things to consider:
Individual threats
Shamin, and CM waters.

Your team has nothing for Shamin, period, and CM bro/Crocune simply 6-0 you with even light damage on haxorous. At the very least you need a mon to tank LO seed flare, outspeed, and kill Shamin, you also need a dedicated answer to last mon crocune/Cmbro/TGmanaphy in general. Sabeye can check them to an extent but your leaning on it way too much. I would suggest dropping mienshao for this spot, as frankly even dedicated offense has pivots for Shao much less full stall making it more of a liability than anything.

Changes:

You have nothing with both immediate offensive presence and the potential to abuse the free turns that can provide. Swap Chandy to Sub CM to have access to a legitimate game ender for defensive teams and give hax a life orb to give it that immediate POWER vs offense and to abuse aromatisse wishpassing and heal bell vs more defensive teams. Swap Mienshao Scarf Jirachi or Scarf Celebi with trick.

He might be adding a Rotom Heat which fits that bill.

 

[jjoshcja]

He might be adding a Rotom Heat which fits that bill.

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 164-194 (68 - 80.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And lets face it, vs stall Rotom-H always tricks turn 1, vs anythign else, +1/+1 Cmer? Trick INC!!!

Its utility is far less than sub CM chandy or SD hera in the same slot.