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Is middle ground just middling? (Team)

It's a shame Heatran is so open to revenge kills, being able to be trapped by both Magnezone and Dugtrio. If I'm using Dragon Pulse they can take me out and mess up things pretty bad. I just can't deny the sexiness of CS Heatran, though. If I opted for Shed Shell chances are the guy wouldn't last as long, anyway.

I agree that Explosion off that weaksauce attack needs to be a late game option, and is definitely not a "oh look it's Blissey BOOM" impulse.

I'm always kinda surprised whenever my thread gets bumped. TBH there've been a lot of teams that've come after mine that look pretty similar, so I sometimes feel that it's not as original as I had thought, initially. I do take pride in the fact that I don't use any "team raping" sweepers, though. Using this team is going to be a nice challenge on my part, and I imagine that's going to feel pretty rewarding.
 
Shed Shell could work on a Rest/Sleep Talk set, which is something I've been considering of late. It craps on double status Gengar (assuming Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt/Energy Ball are it's only attacks).

Heatran @ Shed Shell
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 60 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Lava Plume/Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

What do you think? You won't have the problems of being trapped trying to Dragon Pulse a Magnezone (since you can outspeed it and are free to use your Fire STAB) and you can simply run from Dugtrio.
 
I would run Fire Blast over Flamethrower, as it's average damage is higher and it has a chance at OHKOing Duggy.

EDIT: Both OHKO Duggy, but Fire Blast is higher Average damage.
 
I've taken a good, hard look at what would change if I lost Land Power, and really, I'm not losing much. More than anything, the assurance of Explosion is what would be missed, but I like your set a lot. I'm not sure I understand where your EVs are coming from in the speed department, but it's a solid, workable set, and would even be a decent lead. Definitely a better lead that Swampert, anyway.

After all the CB Rhyperior hullabaloo, I re-evaluated my team versus one of those and decided this: since there doesn't seem to be any type1 counters for the speedy CB variant, I think I can put decent enough pressure on my opponent to at least be able to dent him with any of my guys. If he does get in chances are good that he's going to take someone down, and by the time Cresselia or anyone else gets in to break up his party he'll of course switch out.

I've considered dropping Stealth Rock on Swampert for Roar, but the added damage of SR cannot be underestimated. I think this team will always have an accepted weakness to Baton Passers.

Gave Gliscor Sand Veil since without Ice Fang he isn't going to stay in versus things with Intimidate anyway.

Devil: all three fire moves definitely have their pros and cons, but for right now I'm not sure I could pick one until I get some battles in. I really do appreciate your imput, though, so don't think I'm not listening.
 
Speed is for Timid Magnezone, 384 HP and the rest in Special Attack (340+ I think).

You could get away with having no phazer. Baton Pass teams are incredibly hard to counter and Perish Song, Haze and Whirlwind are more reliable than Roar for BP chains anyway.

None of the Fire moves are really better than the other. It's either power, reliability or burn chance.
 
You can consider Roar over Stone Edge on Pert, though, as you have Tangrowth and Cresslia can counter Gyara in a pinch, Roar is most likely prefered.
 
A thing I'd like to note about tangrowth, which goes for all pokemon in general. Try to raise the HIGHEST stat (in this case defence) using a boosting nature rather than EV's, and raise your not-as-high stats like attack using EV's rather than a boosting nature. So, impish nature, less Def EV's and more Atk EV's. Remember that the nature boost is 10 percent and the EV's raises a stat by single points per 4 EV's.
 
On wozfe's note, you should make a few EV changes:

1) Tangrowth should be Impish with the EVs for Attack and Defense switched. This way you get five extra stat points - 284 ATT and 335 DEF compared to 280 ATT and 334 DEF with Adamant.

2) I don't see Heatran gaining too much by having Timid over Modest, besides the ability to outspeed Jolteons\Crobats\Aerodactyls. If you swap your SA and Speed EVs and go Modest, you still outspeed all the 120-base speed threats with 379 speed, and then you gain about 50 more SA points.

Timid might be really worth it, though, if you found one with HP Ice so it could take on Aerodactyl and take down the dragons even harder.
 
Done, done and done. Thanks for the insight, wozfe, Omega. I certainly hadn't given my EVs a second thought since I initially picked them out.

I'm still unsure about touching Heatran's moveset until much later, but I think I'm gonna can Earth Power for Flash Cannon (or a decent Hidden Power, if I can get one). I definitely like Phuquoph's RestTalker set, but for now I'm staying with "To Be Determined." Regardless, I'm not keen on the idea of choosing Earth Power, only to have Salamence try it's luck at switching in, et cetera.
 
You can afford to ditch Earth Power, since you have good coverage for Fires and Electrics and Flash Cannon does more to the majority of Rock types.

I usually prefer Modest on Heatran, but if you're running Flash Cannon then Timid might be worth it since you can OHKO Aerodactyl.
 
What I've decided is that I'm going to work on two separate Heatran; a Timid CS variant and a Modest RestTalk variant.

I know no one else has spoken up about the RestTaker, but consider the following:

What is the Heatran most will expect to face? The CS version. What are the CS version's major weaknesses? No recovery, easily trapped, increased offensive variance creates a greater margin for error. By no coincidence, the RestTalker addresses all of these points, and I really have to hand it to Phuquoph for that one. For the gamble, Sleep Talk adds a lot of longevity to Heatran.

But of course, a nice Hidden Power (probably Grass) would make the CSer worth it as well.

So, Timid if I go with Flash Cannon, Modest if I go with HPGrass, else a RestTalking starter.
 
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