Pokémon Jirachi

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D3CON said:
That is some hella flawed logic. First of all, 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 29-35 (7.3 - 8.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever. Yes you are doing nothing at all. 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 25-30 (7.4 - 8.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever. And skarm can use this to defog/set up SR or spikes/roost up. Pretty much a free switch in, and it can also whirlwind out. Also, the probability to flinch 1st time is 6/10. The probability to not get the flinch but get the para is 4/10 * 3/10 = 12/100. We add these two together and we get 72/100. You literally have a 0.02 more chance to flinch than to hit a thunder. Which is kinda what i mean by flawed logic.
0- SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 170-202 (43.1 - 51.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 190-224 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So thats a guaranteed 2hko on skarm and a roll on slowbro after rocks. I think i will take those odds instead of trying to flinch them 100 times or, 13 in the case of skarm if it has shed shell. Like i said, its not a standard set (like it use to be in BW), but it is still a set that deserves recognition.
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I said you COULD BS your way past them, not that you SHOULD. You're better off just running a Magnezone if you hate them so much since running an inaccurate move with like Thunder on a defensive Pokemon is a bad idea anyway and takes away the overall utility of Thunder Wave/Body Slam.

Aragorn the King back me up here.
 
Karxrida said:
I said you COULD BS your way past them, not that you SHOULD. You're better off just running a Magnezone if you hate them so much since running an inaccurate move with like Thunder on a defensive Pokemon is a bad idea anyway and takes away the overall utility of Thunder Wave/Body Slam.

Aragorn the King back me up here.
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Using your other team to talk about the said mon isn't quite an excuse here, for example, i could easily bring up the fact of rachi w/o thunder is just a slowbro switch in. And like i said, it is impossible to bs your way through bulky waters or skarm. And running mag just uses another steel type which has pretty much the same weaknesses which is p bad for synergy. I even said in my post skarm with shed shell, since that is becoming a pretty standard set now a days. Furthermore, you should test a set before you criticise it, yes body slam and t wave have their niches. Body slam being a normal type move and t wave having 100% accuracy. HOWEVER, thunder also has a niche which i don't understand why you can't accept. It is a legitimate move set that has its place.

P.S, asking others to help in an debate when you have exhausted all your points and start to revert back to your original, kills the point of a debate :/
 
D3CON said:
Using your other team to talk about the said mon isn't quite an excuse here, for example, i could easily bring up the fact of rachi w/o thunder is just a slowbro switch in. And like i said, it is impossible to bs your way through bulky waters or skarm. And running mag just uses another steel type which has pretty much the same weaknesses which is p bad for synergy. I even said in my post skarm with shed shell, since that is becoming a pretty standard set now a days. Furthermore, you should test a set before you criticise it, yes body slam and t wave have their niches. Body slam being a normal type move and t wave having 100% accuracy. HOWEVER, thunder also has a niche which i don't understand why you can't accept. It is a legitimate move set that has its place.

P.S, asking others to help in an debate when you have exhausted all your points and start to revert back to your original, kills the point of a debate :/
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Personally, I like the sound of thunder/bolt on CM sets, but I don't see the use on defensive sets. Hitting skarm is about all your hitting it with it really because if slowbros hit with a thunder its gonna switch out and regenerate and let something else take the weak unstabbed base 100 thunder. I suppose if skarm is an absolute necessity to hit, but even then I'd prefer just using uturn on my defensive set to secure momentum anyways.
 
I want to share my set to you all
jirachi.gif


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam

I call this set as Setter and Wish passer I mostly start with jirachi I set stealth rock with it and try paralyzing my Opp with body slam it has 30% chance of paralyzing with its ability serene grace it gets 60% chances with is more than enough to paralyze my Opp. and also it act as Wish passer which help my team a lot. I also use protects to Scout my Opp move sometimes wish and get life or himself.
 
jirachi.gif


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Fire Punch
- Substitute

This is generally what I use on a stall team as it just screws over a bunch of cores efficiently and is wicked annoying when the matchup isn't in the opponents favor. EV spread is to outrun stuff like Jolly Mamoswine and the special defense boost is just for taking more hits and to not have the Sub broken by things like Latias for example. Considering the nature of the team I use I have special defense on there but some things are interchangeable such as putting the 160 EVs into attack and using stuff like Ice Punch over Fire Punch to hit Lando-T, Gliscor, Garchomp, among some other things. Nothing much else to say with the other moves.
 
It should be noted in the general analysis that Jirachi can not only lay steath rocks, but cripple/kill a lot of defoggers/spinners who come in to remove them. Lati@ seems to be the #1 defogger and jirachi can nail it with twave, same with starmie (although natural cure seems to be more common these days, but at least u can force it out, and reflect type still takes a hit from uturn) while taking minimum damage from them. Other defoggers like skarm or the rare mandi get smacked by thunder, but u might want to beware foul play. in the event that exca/natural cure starmie. comes in, you can uturn out to a check/counter, keeping rocks on the field. Uturn alone makes it a very useful SR layer, but with access to twave, it becomes one of the best way to keep rocks on the field or punish players who choose to remove it.
 
AM said:
jirachi.gif


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Fire Punch
- Substitute

This is generally what I use on a stall team as it just screws over a bunch of cores efficiently and is wicked annoying when the matchup isn't in the opponents favor. EV spread is to outrun stuff like Jolly Mamoswine and the special defense boost is just for taking more hits and to not have the Sub broken by things like Latias for example. Considering the nature of the team I use I have special defense on there but some things are interchangeable such as putting the 160 EVs into attack and using stuff like Ice Punch over Fire Punch to hit Lando-T, Gliscor, Garchomp, among some other things. Nothing much else to say with the other moves.
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Utterly walled by Heatran but otherwise yeah, that looks quite annoying.
 
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