Battle Spot [Johto Classic] The Quick and the Dead

[Vengeance417]

Howdy. I'm here with another RMT, this time for the new Johto Classic metagame. I don't have much experience with the 3v3 format of Pokemon battling, but from what I've played so far, the best way to play in this meta is to move fast and hit hard, whether it's from the aid of a high base speed or with the use of priority attacks. This team you're about to see has worked very well for me so far and, while I know the meta is still very young so it ultimately doesn't mean very much right now, I peaked at #3 on the ladder with this team at the time of me posting this thread. http://i.imgur.com/deqHwxf.png <- (proof of peak)

Building Process:

With this particular team, I started off with the three Pokemon that I felt, in my opinion, were the most consistent from my previous team. Azumarill and Scizor have great offensive and defensive synergy together and are pretty much two of the best Pokemon in this meta right now, while Donphan has an ace up his trunk that stops Dragonite and Raikou in their tracks. I'll go over that later.

While priority is nice, I still needed a Pokemon that was naturally fast. Alakazam is definitely that with its base 120 speed. Focus Sash allows it to survive any one hit and either revenge-kill a Pokemon or spread a desperate Thunder Wave. Zam also helps my offensive matchup vs Venusaur.

Suicune and other Water types were tough to break with the mons I had, so Raikou was the obvious choice here. Specs Raikou is such a strong wallbreaker that is more than easily capable of bringing Water types down. Having a Bullet Punch resist besides Scizor is also nice.

Lastly, we have Lure Dragonite. This thing's a beast. Most Dragonite these days are DD, but my Dragonite's job is to keep Azumarill and Scizor in to die to Thunder Punch and Fire Punch, while providing a key Aqua Jet resistance besides Azu to ensure I win the 1v1.

The Team:

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower

When many people think about Azumarill in Johto Classic, they talk about its Belly Drum set. It's a great set, I won't deny anyone that. However, after using Choice Band Azumarill, I just can't see myself switching over. It's just so good. Banded Play Rough is capable of 2HKOing Unaware Clefable, Unaware Quagsire and Slowbro right off the bat, something Belly Drum can't do to the former two and not to Slowbro unless it has already set up. If you have seen Banded Azumarill in Smogon OU, the set itself is barely any different at all and needs no real extensive explanation. Banded Aqua Jet is a fantastic way to revenge kill while Play Rough, Waterfall and Superpower can wallbreak with ease.

The speed is to creep on opposing Scizor so I can use Aqua Jet before it can Bullet Punch me.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 12 SpDef / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

One of my favorite Pokemon of all time right here. SD LO Scizor is such a menace in this metagame. Naturally high bulk ensures I can get off at least one SD to just clean teams right after. The moveset itself is once again self-explanatory. U-Turn is here to give me a nice VoltTurn core with Raikou to help me gain momentum vs my enemies Knock Off is a highly spammable move that is great for offensive utility. Bullet Punch for priority. The EV spread has been suggested by cant say and is here to improve Scizors overall bulk and hit a Life Orb number. 12 speed is to creep on opposing Scizor.

Donphan @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Counter
- Endeavor

I really wish I created this set, but I didn't ;-; shoutout to Jake0743 for this masterpiece.

Whenever I see a Raikou or a Dragonite, this bad boy's coming in. If a physical Pokemon is strong enough to bring me to below 25% health, I click Counter, KOing said Pokemon, then activate my Custap Berry to bring the next Pokemon down to a weakened state with Endeavor. Also, having a Sturdy user is key in a metagame where OHKO moves are allowed, as they don't affect Donphan here which is always nice. Ice Shard is for picking off weakened foes before and after I'm in Custap range. Earthquake for strong STAB. 12 speed to creep on opposing Donphan. Max attack to hit as hard as possible.

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Wave

Sash Alakazam is pretty much the face of hyper offense. Very high offensive stats and speed and an item that allows it to take any one hit and disrupt the opponent's plans. Thanks to Magic Guard, even if the opponent uses hazards, my Sash will remain intact. I usually lead off with Zam here when the matchup is in his favor. Thunder Wave is great on this set as a last ditch effort to paralyze Dragonite and Cloyster, two set up Pokemon that benefit from the speed boosts they acquire. Psychic is for STAB, Focus Blast dents Dark types such as Tyranitar and Umbreon while Shadow Ball hurts opposing Psychics such as opposing Zam, Espeon and Slowbro.

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Extrasensory
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Specs Raikou is my special wallbreaker of the team, and it is strong as hell. It's naturally fast and it hits very hard with great coverage to hit a wide variety of threats in the metagame.

Thunderbolt is the main STAB move of choice while Volt Switch is here to give me momentum. Hidden Power Grass is being used over Ice to not only hit the Ground types that are immune to Electric type moves, but also enables it to hit Quagsire and Volt Absorb Lanturn super effectively. Lastly, Extrasensory has one purpose: slam Venusaur as hard as possible.

Dragonite @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Extreme Speed

Yup. You're seein' some anti-meta shit right here. No Dragon STAB Dragonite. Yup. I'm a lunatic.

I love this huggable Dragon and what I made it capable of doing. A lot of Dragonite in this metagame are the DD variants. Well, not today. These two coverage moves in Fire Punch and Thunder Punch ensure I don't lose momentum vs Scizor and Azumarill, OHKOing Scizor outright and 2HKOing Azu. Having Earthquake and Extreme Speed means I also don't lose momentum vs Raikou when it comes in to HP Ice me while also having a move that dents Tyranitar and other Rock types.

Safety Goggles allows me to consistently counter Spore Smeargle and Sleep Powder Venusaur and Venomoth so they don't get away with their shenanigans while also keeping Multiscale vs Sand Stream Tyranitar.

Importable

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 12 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Extrasensory
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Wave

Dragonite @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Extreme Speed

Donphan @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Counter
- Endeavor

Let me know what you guys think about the team and what issues you find. Thank you all :)

 

[cant say]

I would have thought Specs Raikou and Band Scizor would be the go to sets to form a strong Volt-Turn core, with either Sitrus or Assault Vest Azu completing it.

The rest looks pretty cool though, especially the Dragonite. Just make sure you change Raikou's SpA to 248 EVs because of the 30 IV there. Remember that this comp is played at level 50, so make sure you have the levels set to 50 in the teambuilder so you can use the EV sliders effectively...

 

[Vengeance417]

I figured Specs on Raikou would be the better option. I'm just not so sure about the other two options. I could make Scizor SD U-Turn instead of Superpower so I can still have that Volt Turn core. Both Banded Azumarill and SD Scizor have been huge contributers as to why this team has done so well for me and it'll feel awkward not using them. The immediate power banded Azu brings means its usual switchins, such as Clef, Quag and Slowbro are actually getting 2HKOd instead of walling it, and SD LO Scizor is a potent wincon.

I'll try Band Sciz and AV Azu anyway and see how it goes. Thanks for the rate :)

 

[Omastar68]

Well, I'm always trying to cut down on Spe investment, especially on slow mons. So I like less Spe on Azu. Mayb 4 to creep 50s at most, I'm not sure more would be worth it.

Really like the Donphan, and Scizor looks good too. However, I'm pretty sure taking 8 EVs out of HP on both for 4 in each defense is a good idea. That's a point of HP for a point in each defense, which should help bulk.

Rest looks really good too, not sure what else to add. Some calcs might be nice, like does your weird DNite actually beat Azu and stuff..

 

[Vengeance417]

Well, I'm always trying to cut down on Spe investment, especially on slow mons. So I like less Spe on Azu. Mayb 4 to creep 50s at most, I'm not sure more would be worth it.

Really like the Donphan, and Scizor looks good too. However, I'm pretty sure taking 8 EVs out of HP on both for 4 in each defense is a good idea. That's a point of HP for a point in each defense, which should help bulk.

Rest looks really good too, not sure what else to add. Some calcs might be nice, like does your weird DNite actually beat Azu and stuff..

He's not weird, leave him alone ;-;

252+ Atk Expert Belt Dragonite Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 139-166 (67.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 100-118 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In terms of speed, I can still creep on min speed Machamp, which is base 55 compared to Azu's 50. So the new spread would look something like this.

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower

However, I like creeping on Clefables before they start setting up Cosmic Powers, doing as much damage to them as possible.

 

[Omastar68]

Is Clefable a big threat here too? You don't have very much for it. Donphan could use Fissure if it's really bad, tho I like your current move set. Still, there's lots of other stuff you could try like Seed Bomb and Play Rough.

Raikou could use Roar, but that'll only get rid of boosts if Clef isn't the last mon, and it often will be in 3v3. So I guess I do agree with more Spe on Azu for e slow Clefs.

 

[Vengeance417]

Is Clefable a big threat here too? You don't have very much for it. Donphan could use Fissure if it's really bad, tho I like your current move set. Still, there's lots of other stuff you could try like Seed Bomb and Play Rough.

Raikou could use Roar, but that'll only get rid of boosts if Clef isn't the last mon, and it often will be in 3v3. So I guess I do agree with more Spe on Azu for e slow Clefs.

I mean, Clef isn't the dominate threat that it was in Kanto Classic, and I've never really had any problems going against it so far. You just gotta out-offense it and hit it as hard as you can. The speed on Azu's just there for convenience against it just to make its life easier vs it.

 

[Omastar68]

I just noticed your Raikou is Lefties. Those go nice with sub, but is it really bulky enough to use them? I'd think maybe a Petaya Berry, do 4 subs then get the boost if you need to, or if you get knocked down to low helth.

At any rate, you might be changing Raikou's set anyways.

 

[Vengeance417]

I just noticed your Raikou is Lefties. Those go nice with sub, but is it really bulky enough to use them? I'd think maybe a Petaya Berry, do 4 subs then get the boost if you need to, or if you get knocked down to low helth.

At any rate, you might be changing Raikou's set anyways.

I already went with can't say's suggestion and changed the set to Specs. It's much better for me right now and having Volt Switch helps gain momentum tremendously.

Regarding Sub CM, it's an actual set that's seen use for a while now in a multitude of metas. It's not like Raikou is made of paper or anything. It has good special bulk even without investment.

 

[Vengeance417]

Sorry for the long double post, but I've been considering replacing Expert Belt on Dragonite with Safety Goggles. This would vastly improve my matchup vs Sleep Powder Venusaur and Spore Smeargle as well as the rare Venomoth. I still 2HKO Azu with Thunder Punch without E-belt anyway.

 

[Omastar68]

I noticed Azu, Scizor, and Donphan all have lots of HP but no defenses. You can take out 8 EVs from HP and put 4 EVs in each defense to trade one point of HP got a point of Def and SpD.

I found out this neat rule a while ago, from here http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-mini-guide-to-optimizing-ivs-and-evs.3545529/.

I'm afraid I can't weigh in on more important things since your team looks really good and I haven't really even played this meta. But i hope this helps some:)

 

[Vengeance417]

I noticed Azu, Scizor, and Donphan all have lots of HP but no defenses. You can take out 8 EVs from HP and put 4 EVs in each defense to trade one point of HP got a point of Def and SpD.

I found out this neat rule a while ago, from here http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-mini-guide-to-optimizing-ivs-and-evs.3545529/.

I'm afraid I can't weigh in on more important things since your team looks really good and I haven't really even played this meta. But i hope this helps some:)

Thanks for that guide :D

I've went ahead and done that change already. I really should be documenting my changes in the OP, lmao. Azu, Scizor and Donphan have 4 defense and special defense a piece now.

 

[cant say]

I noticed Azu, Scizor, and Donphan all have lots of HP but no defenses. You can take out 8 EVs from HP and put 4 EVs in each defense to trade one point of HP got a point of Def and SpD.

I found out this neat rule a while ago, from here http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-mini-guide-to-optimizing-ivs-and-evs.3545529/.

I'm afraid I can't weigh in on more important things since your team looks really good and I haven't really even played this meta. But i hope this helps some:)

I've seen you sharing this information a lot lately and I have to make it clear that you can't do this for EVERY Pokemon, and is a case-by-case thing. Taking 8 HP away from Scizor and putting 4 in both Def and SpD actually hurts its overall bulk. It takes away from Donphan's physical bulk but does give a tiny boost to SpD, but you want more HP (albeit only 1 point) for Counter. The only one that actually benefits from your advice is Azumarill, as dropping to 132 HP and using 4 in each defensive stat gives slightly better bulk. I advise you to first check if something benefits from this before hastily advising everyone to just do it.

I also don't know if sharing a guide written by a banned user is the best idea either...

As for your Scizor - Vengeance417 - since it's Life Orb I think you should try a spread of 188 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 12 SpD / 12 Spe, this drops your HP down to 169, which minimises Life Orb recoil (you lose 16 HP instead of 17) while the defensive EVs make up for the lack of HP by providing comparable bulk. I did some calcs and it looks like you take the same damage with that spread as you were with 244 HP.

 

[Vengeance417]

I've seen you sharing this information a lot lately and I have to make it clear that you can't do this for EVERY Pokemon, and is a case-by-case thing. Taking 8 HP away from Scizor and putting 4 in both Def and SpD actually hurts its overall bulk. It takes away from Donphan's physical bulk but does give a tiny boost to SpD, but you want more HP (albeit only 1 point) for Counter. The only one that actually benefits from your advice is Azumarill, as dropping to 132 HP and using 4 in each defensive stat gives slightly better bulk. I advise you to first check if something benefits from this before hastily advising everyone to just do it.

I also don't know if sharing a guide written by a banned user is the best idea either...

As for your Scizor - Vengeance417 - since it's Life Orb I think you should try a spread of 188 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 12 SpD / 12 Spe, this drops your HP down to 169, which minimises Life Orb recoil (you lose 16 HP instead of 17) while the defensive EVs make up for the lack of HP by providing comparable bulk. I did some calcs and it looks like you take the same damage with that spread as you were with 244 HP.

Ah, ok. Glad to know that. I'll make the necessary changes. Thanks :)

I'm actually running a bit more speed on Azumarill at the moment, with a spread of 124 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 124 Spe, to outpace min speed Scizor.

 

[6tennis]

no STAB Dargonite wtf

Actually, this team is sick. But even with all your Elec counters, you're still weak to them. In addition, you should look at how to beat rain, because a rain core puts in serious work against your team. Priority is good until you run into something bulky, so against the beefier meta threats (e.g. Sciz) you really have to bring Dragonite, or you have a serious problem (so long as it doesn't insta-lose to SD LO Sciz lmao). With all these suggestions in mind, I think you should take a look at Quagsire > Donphan.

Yes, I know Jake's Donphan is suuuuper good. But it's too niche. It might beat Dragonite and Raikou, but it only does that when it's healthy, and it loses to loads of other things. Quagsire in particular has two important things over Donphan: a Water-Ground typing and Unaware. Its typing is one of the best defensive typings in this meta, as the only really common Grass-type is Venusaur. It allows it to beat common Electric spam. Unaware means that it can wall out setup sweepers (like Dragonite and SD LO Sciz). It still has a problem with rain, however - or at least, normal ones do.

What I'm about to show you is so anti-meta it's going to make you...I don't even know what it's going to do to you. Are you ready? Then prepare yourself for SpDef Quagsire.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Yeah. Crazy, I know. But this set is actually an insane lure. Basically any special attacker is going to want to come in on this Quagsire. When that happens, you'll usually want to Toxic. Then, you stall. Simple, yet effective. actually this set is ass against rain lmao, maybe try lanturn instead? beats sciz with hp fire, beats rain (assvest is gr8), and Volt Absorb to crush elecs. EZ MONEY. lmao too lazy to write more, cool team tho

 

[Vengeance417]

no STAB Dargonite wtf

Actually, this team is sick. But even with all your Elec counters, you're still weak to them. In addition, you should look at how to beat rain, because a rain core puts in serious work against your team. Priority is good until you run into something bulky, so against the beefier meta threats (e.g. Sciz) you really have to bring Dragonite, or you have a serious problem (so long as it doesn't insta-lose to SD LO Sciz lmao). With all these suggestions in mind, I think you should take a look at Quagsire > Donphan.

Yes, I know Jake's Donphan is suuuuper good. But it's too niche. It might beat Dragonite and Raikou, but it only does that when it's healthy, and it loses to loads of other things. Quagsire in particular has two important things over Donphan: a Water-Ground typing and Unaware. Its typing is one of the best defensive typings in this meta, as the only really common Grass-type is Venusaur. It allows it to beat common Electric spam. Unaware means that it can wall out setup sweepers (like Dragonite and SD LO Sciz). It still has a problem with rain, however - or at least, normal ones do.

What I'm about to show you is so anti-meta it's going to make you...I don't even know what it's going to do to you. Are you ready? Then prepare yourself for SpDef Quagsire.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Yeah. Crazy, I know. But this set is actually an insane lure. Basically any special attacker is going to want to come in on this Quagsire. When that happens, you'll usually want to Toxic. Then, you stall. Simple, yet effective. actually this set is ass against rain lmao, maybe try lanturn instead? beats sciz with hp fire, beats rain (assvest is gr8), and Volt Absorb to crush elecs. EZ MONEY. lmao too lazy to write more, cool team tho

Thanks for the rate, bro :)

My only real concerns regarding using Lanturn is how, even with investment, it doesn't necessarily hit all that hard, and can even lose to things like SubCalm Raikou which can pressure-stall Lanturn out of Hydro Pumps (you only get to use 4 vs it, and it'll suck if you miss), not to mention that HP Grass has been becoming a popular choice on Electric types to beat things like Lanturn and Quagsire while still beating the Ground types that usually get smacked by HP Ice, which really only hits Dragonite in this meta. You could easily use an HP Grass Electric type + mon with Ice coverage to ease your matchup vs Dragonite, something I do with this team in particular.

One thing to mention, I use Specs Raikou now over Sub CM, which can hit pretty hard vs bulky mons, so I don't HAVE to bring Dragonite vs fat teams. I have Banded Azu, SD Scizor and Specs Raikou as wallbreakers, with Dragonite in the back for opposing Scizor.

Having bulky mons such as Lanturn and Quag that just sit there and tank hits doesn't fit the nature of a hyper offense team such as mine. The overall goal is to move fast and hit hard and trying not to lose momentum in the process.

Rain cores in general are in itself very specialized and aren't all that great from my experience. I have access to Sash T-Wave Alakazam that can cripple Kingdra, and then have Specs Raikou in the back to kill Politoed. Even my Donphan can Endeavor on the Sturdy and use Custap priority to kill Kingdra on the following turn. Azu can pseudo-comfortably take it on (I say pseudo because Scald burns) thanks to resisting both of its STABs and retaliating with Play Rough.

A rain team that I feel is the best way to use rain is Nelson Tangela's Drizzlenite Citrus Rain: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/johto-classic-drizzlenites-citrus-rain.3571820/

This team incorporates Pokemon that APPRECIATES rain, but doesn't NEED it to win games.

 

[Omastar68]

Very tiny thing, but Raikou only wants 248 SpA EVs with a 30 IV. Not sure if it's too late and your box is locked tho