OU Jolteon or Zapdos Analysis

[itdrcorp]

Which one do you prefer Jolteon or Zapdos?

Here is my very crude analysis:

Jolteon - Arguably Jolteon is more versatile and can fit on more teams comps. It'll pretty much outspeed anything allowing it to para tauros, starmie, and alakazam. It can at least touch rhydon and golem with a small amount of damage with double kick like 15% to 20% without crit. Has one of the highest crit chance at ~25%. On the down side, it's thunderbolt just doesn't seem to hit as hard. It's extremely fragile and pretty much dead if its para'd.

Matchups:
> Tauros - Outspeeds tauros to twave it. Even if tauros knocks it out with earthquake I would consider it a win cause tauros would be para'd and vulnerable.
> Exeggutor - Pin missile + twave. Usually, jolteon wins this matchup (assuming sleep already used).
? Chansey - Not a matchup jolteon wants to go against unless absolutely necessary. Although, jolteon isn't weak to ice, Twave and Counter are both scary.
< Snorlax - Typically jolteon will lose here. snorlax can take the tbolt on a switch in and earthquake will kill jolteon.
? Alakazam - Zam has a slight edge due to recover although jolteon out speeds it.
> Starmie - Speed + thunderbolt + thunder wave. This one should be an easy win for jolteon.
> Lapras - Pretty much a hard counter. Lap can hope for a para body slam (assuming sleep already used).
> Jynx - Speed + thunderbolt + thunder wave wins (assuming sleep already used).
< Rhydon/golem - Jolteon does better vs these guys with double kick switch in and can take them out once they are low. however, terrible matchup.
> Zapdos - Jolteon wins this one, but it's gonna be para'd which might render jolteon useless after this encounter.

Zapdos - Arguably much more hard hitting, durable, and threatening when the ground types are gone. It can stay in fights much longer. Although it has a lower crit chance it can throw out more hits and hit harder which scares chansey, snorlax, zam more. It's not as afraid of being para'd as jolteon. On the down side, it can't do anything to rhydon and golem (<8%). Also, it's weak to ice moves which makes it suspect vs common water and ice matchups.

Matchups:
> Tauros - Although tauros gets the first hit, zapdos can twave and the followup tbolts hit hard. Can take non-crit body slams fairly well.
> Exeggutor - Drill peck hurts. zapdos should win easily (assuming sleep already used).
? Chansey - Drillpeck can be scary for chansey, but icebeam twave also hurts zapdos. Hard to say who would win more here.
> Snorlax - Typically zapdos wins this matchup since zapdos tbolt hits hard and zapdos can take hits from lax.
> Alakazam - Unless it's a reflect alakazam, zapdos should win this with drill peck.
? Starmie - starmie outspeeds it and blizzard hurts. although zapdos can hit back. so this matchup is suspect.
? Lapras - Zapdos has a slight edge, but the blizzard hurts a lot.
? Jynx - Drill peck jynx but again blizzard on zapdos its gonna come out of the fight pretty wounded.
< Rhydon/golem - Can't do anything vs these guys
< Jolteon - Jolteon wins this one, but it's gonna be para'd which might render jolteon useless after this encounter.

 

[Nails]

rest over pin missile allows jolt to safely win endgames vs chansey, zapdos, and starmie, and get rid of paralysis if necessary. zapdos can't run rest viably but it still consistently wins vs chansey (you eventually crit a drill peck or it fully paras). zapdos is the most potent offensive mon in rby excluding tauros, but it's a sweeper and pretty all in, while jolteon is more controlled and is way better defensively. they're very different pokemon, and each is correct in different situations. i personally prefer to use jolteon more frequently than zapdos, but it's just a playstyle thing. most others prefer zapdos.

pin missile jolteon is pretty outclassed by zap, it's really just not a good mon. as you mentioned, it's crippled by paralysis which forces you to be on edge while using it. tough for it to do anything safely.

 

[Gen1UUFan]

I think Jolteon has better utility, while if Rhydon/Golem are out of the way, and Zapdos gets a light screen under its belt, it can be almost unstoppable. Zapdos fits well if you have a reliable way of dragging out and dealing with the rocks, while Jolteon fits better if you like/need more paralysis support, or really have trouble with starmie. They're both the premier electric types for a reason, on my team I found Zapdos fit a lot better in practice, but I think people should give them both a try to see which they prefer.

 

[morty123]

While its true that Jolteon can deal more damage to Rhydon/Golem, Zapdos actually has a better chance to survive against them.
Its a small niche, seeing as you dont want either pokemon out against them, but in a pinch, Zapdos can run reflect+rest and stall, you have to pray that rock slide never crit though, so your odds aren't that great, but better than Jolt, which just dies to them.

I mean, Zapdos can never actually kill Rhydon/Golem if they ran sets that took this into account, out of curiosity, does anyone run rest on Rhydon?
If they dont run rest, i guess you can kill them if they never crit rock slide, slowly.

 

[Heroic Troller]

A lot of this topic is too simplified and does not account to what actually happens for real in games, Double Kick Jolteon mentioned as a Rhydon damager is so wrong, by the time you Double Kick x4 a Rhydon he will have likely beat up your team already up to that point, that is why we have double switches. And there is more Jolteon does not paralize Tauros Starmie or Alakazam usually unless the opponent wants to take the trade, because unlike Zapdos you can stall Jolteon quite easily. Nails said it all, Jolteon is a defense piece and Zapdos a super potent sweeper, using Jolteon as your sweeper will never work because it doesn't even beat Exeggutor to begin with. My suggestion is to try this kind of thread with pokemons that has actually similar roles not that just happen to share the typing. Like no offense but talking of Rest Reflect Zapdos won't go anywhere (also it loses from Rock Slide x2+Body Slam par+Rock Slide)

 

[Dre89]

I don’t understand how jolteon is considered better defensively seeing as most mons either 2HKOS it or can twave it and make it useless. The only reason it gets picked over zap is because it outspeeds Pokémon zapdos doesn’t and therefore it can be a revenge killer.

Zapdos has traditionally been considered better because they both get countered by rocks, but zapdos is normally more dangerous once rocks are gone due to having bulk and being able to hit on both sides.

 

[Jorgen]

I think its matchup against Ice Beam Chansey is the main reason why it's better "defensively". Jolt can actually stall Chansey out without having to do something silly like set up Light Screen. There are, of course, other more minor things that contribute, such as being able to pivot against Blizzard aquatics and its own superior matchup against Electrics.

 

[Heroic Troller]

I don’t understand how jolteon is considered better defensively seeing as most mons either 2HKOS it or can twave it and make it useless. The only reason it gets picked over zap is because it outspeeds Pokémon zapdos doesn’t and therefore it can be a revenge killer.

Zapdos has traditionally been considered better because they both get countered by rocks, but zapdos is normally more dangerous once rocks are gone due to having bulk and being able to hit on both sides.

I don't understand your comment, Jolteon takes half damage from Thunderbolt and Ice Beam/Blizzard compared to Zapdos, and is the only one of the two who can runs an effective Rest moveset.

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

I think he meant that Zapdos is not 2HKO'd by Tauros and Lax and has better defensive stats in general. Both function differently in my opinion and I wouldn't say one or the other is better defensively. Jolteon has a defensive niche though as stated above (handling BoltBeam Chansey and Zapdos really well) while Zapdos just happens to have good bulk which helps it in a lot of 1v1 matchups.

 

[Beelzemon 2003]

I prefer Zapdos since it hits hard Exeggutor and Chansey which are super common, still, I rarely use any of them because they can't touch Golem or Rhydon, dang! Even Onix, Rhyhorn, Geodude and Graveler destroy them, don't believe me? I challenge anyone of you to a one on one fight between Zapdos/Jolteon and the Rock/Ground pokémon I mentioned.

To be honest, I prefer Raichu over Jolteon and Zapdos because, unlike them, Raichu is not afraid of the Rock/Ground mons and hits hard the pure Ground pokes before dying.

 

[Dre89]

I prefer Zapdos since it hits hard Exeggutor and Chansey which are super common, still, I rarely use any of them because they can't touch Golem or Rhydon, dang! Even Onix, Rhyhorn, Geodude and Graveler destroy them, don't believe me? I challenge anyone of you to a one on one fight between Zapdos/Jolteon and the Rock/Ground pokémon I mentioned.

To be honest, I prefer Raichu over Jolteon and Zapdos because, unlike them, Raichu is not afraid of the Rock/Ground mons and hits hard the pure Ground pokes before dying.

Raichu is terrible in OU. No one switches ground Pokémon into raichu because everyone knows it’ll have surf. You can just switch in anything except a water Pokémon and beat it because it’s stats are mediocre. People use zapdos for it’s top tier stats, and because it’s the only Pokémon in the game that hits hard both physically and specially without boosting. People use jolteon because it’s faster than everything in OU which makes it a great revenge killer and sweeper, and because it’s crit rate means it can do decent damage even when it’s not using thunderbolt.

 

[morty123]

No upsides without downsides, Raichu can take on the grounds, but on the downside, it loses out on dealing with grass types, especially exeggcutor.
Zapdos have drill peck, and pin missile from Jolt still hurts because 4x.
It also have issues with special walls in general, to a greater extent than Jolteon and Zapdos(in particular) does.
Stats are not that great for Raichu either, as the person above me pointed out.

 

[Gen1UUFan]

Yeah I feel like Raichus niche is so well known and exploitable that it does almost nothing to negate its weaknesses. Even then its niche isnt even as valuable as it seems, as surf wont OHKO much of anything that isnt 4x weak. I think something like electrode is actually more useful just due to being able to status everything and explode, plus super high crit rate.

 

[Omanyte]

I haven’t played competitively in a while, but some of these comments seem so alien to me.
Is Rest Jolteon really viable? It just seems like a free switch in for a Taurus or Lax to wreck havoc.

The advantage of Jolteon is not his defences, or even really ice neutrality, it’s all about the speed, as Dre said. Jolteon fits the role of late game sweeper much better than Zapdos, because it outspeeds Tauros, Starmie, Zam etc. Zapdos can’t revenge kill these pokes or sweep in the same way.
On the other hand, Zapdos is more bulky, powerful and can come in earlier (assuming you’ve scouted for rocks).
Jolteon is more niche, but better in the specific role of sweeper.

 

[Beelzemon 2003]

Raichu's Special is not bad (a 278 Special is, by mathematical definition, above average). By the way, you wouldn't believe how many opponents have left/switched their Rock/Ground pokémon against my Raichu just for me to kill them. Anyway, I'm known for using unorthodox pokémon / tactics, so it is fine if you think Raichu is bad, I'm not trying to impose my viewpoint on you, at the end of the day, all the Electrics are walled hard by something in Gen 1: Zapdos and Jolteon are walled hard by any Ground/Rock Pokémon, while Raichu is walled hard by Exeggutor and any Grass pokémon (it is also Countered by Dugtrio), so pick your poison.

 

[earl]

Raichu's Special is not bad (a 278 Special is, by mathematical definition, above average). By the way, you wouldn't believe how many opponents have left/switched their Rock/Ground pokémon against my Raichu just for me to kill them. Anyway, I'm known for using unorthodox pokémon / tactics, so it is fine if you think Raichu is bad, I'm not trying to impose my viewpoint on you, at the end of the day, all the Electrics are walled hard by something in Gen 1: Zapdos and Jolteon are walled hard by any Ground/Rock Pokémon, while Raichu is walled hard by Exeggutor and any Grass pokémon (it is also Countered by Dugtrio), so pick your poison.

At top tournament play any half decent player will know that Raichu has surf

 

[Beelzemon 2003]

You'd be surprised at how dumb some players can be, even professionals.

 

[Omanyte]

Raichu's Special is not bad (a 278 Special is, by mathematical definition, above average). By the way, you wouldn't believe how many opponents have left/switched their Rock/Ground pokémon against my Raichu just for me to kill them. Anyway, I'm known for using unorthodox pokémon / tactics, so it is fine if you think Raichu is bad, I'm not trying to impose my viewpoint on you, at the end of the day, all the Electrics are walled hard by something in Gen 1: Zapdos and Jolteon are walled hard by any Ground/Rock Pokémon, while Raichu is walled hard by Exeggutor and any Grass pokémon (it is also Countered by Dugtrio), so pick your poison.

The problem is that rocks are on some teams, whereas both Eggy and Chansey are on almost every team. (Running Submission on Raichu is not a reliable counter due to dodgy accuracy and horrific recoil.)
Plus, Raichu's special is comparitively mediocre, meaning that Raichu is worse against EVERY pokemon save for Goldon.
Just as an example, Jolteon and Zapdos both 2HKO Articuno, Raichu does not.

 

[Dre89]

You'd be surprised at how dumb some players can be, even professionals.

There’s no such thing as a professional RBYer because no one makes a living off the game lol

Could you list the tournaments where this has ever worked? I’m curious to see who you’re defining as ‘professionals’.

 

[RedactedFractal]

I’d go with Zapdos, I just enjoy the ground immunity more, though I do enjoy the speed of Jolteon

 

[badabing]

Jolteon counters zapdos and zapdos doesn’t

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Can Jolteon be a last ditch effort to break through Amnesia Slowbro also? That's a big reason I always had one on my team, I never played with Jolteon, but the higher critical hit chance could be helpful, but the bulk is problematic.

 

[Omanyte]

Jolteon counters zapdos and zapdos doesn’t

It's not really a very good counter unless it's 1v1. Zapdos will just paralyse Jolteon, meaning the next pokemon (probably Tauros) will just EQ it to death.
If Zapdos has Light Screen he can also reasonably fight 1v1.

Jolteon is pretty good vs Slowbro, if you predict Rest (not too hard) you'd have to be unlucky not to win 1v1, and have a decemt chance to KO without taking damage.

 

[badabing]

i believe it is optimal to have as many checks and counters to my opponents pokemon as possible, so i opt for jolteon. plus you can get it before erika