Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[Uvood]

Anything can be taken care of in Pokemon with prediction, heck, it's how we took care of dragons, tricking them into outraging and killing with a steel type resist. If you predict perfectly, you can have almost no answer or counter too a poke, and beat it handily. But that's the thing, you can't predict right every time. Extreme case example, I could predict every Sucker Punch Kanga went for, stalling out the 8 pp, then kill with my weakened Fighting type, that could not have taken a Sucker Punch. But that is never realistically going too happen, not too mention the Kanga players own predictions. Prediction can counter Everything! Even uber pokes can be beaten by OU pokes if you predict correctly every time.

 

[Antibiotic]

All of this guys checks (barring rocking helmet and other silly stuff) are faster fighting types, as mentioned above. They are only checks though, you had to let something die to bring them in. Since they are all faster fighting types, it's not exactly hard to synergize a team to help take care of the very few pokemon that can check it. People keep doing the OHKO on kanga calcs like he is going to stay in for those. But you only are going to have 1 check, unless you start building your whole team around mega-khan, and so I guess the plan is to just let something die everytime he comes in? Just to force him out so that that cycle repeats again? Regardless of whether he has legitimate checks, this guy still has enough power to freaking OHKO LUGIA after using an attack move. The only reason choice band is balanced is because of the locking feature of it. If that was taken away, and you could slap that on a pokemon for a free 1.5 attack boost, it would be broken as all hell. But that's Mega-Khan for you. Broken as all hell.

 

[Cataclyptic]

okay guys i have the perfect soluton 2 teh problem: we dont ban the kanganite, we just ban the baby. that way kanga is not so op anymore w/o 2nd attack :)

...

Lol no, let's be serious here:

I think that the Kangaskhanite should be banned after giving it much thought and reading some of these posts. It saddens me that I (probably) won't be able to use her in OU anymore, but I will be honest with myself and share what I have learned from using her for a long time.

Firstly to point out what other people have said, "Too few posts about switch ins for this thing.". This is entirely true as far as my own battling is concerned; without some good prediction there are VERY few switch ins (lol sableye) that can go into MegaKahn and do something back to it. And while fighting types are really the perfect solution to it, in the end they can't really switch directly into it so the point is moot. In my experience the only way to kill MegaKahn is to revenge kill it with some aforementioned fighting types, the implication of course being that it's already killed one Pokemon.

Oh, and it can also switch back out when it sees a fighting type.

So by virtue of no safe switch ins, I'd say it's broken. Not ungodly broken like others have made it out to be, but still broken enough to be banned to ubers.

One other thing: there is in fact a minor effect to the centralizing the metagame argument- because everyone seems to run ferro with rocky helmet nowadays. Skarmory to a lesser extent. As you might expect, Ferro is a lot easier to destroy without leftovers so by running rocky helmet solely to counter one Pokemon... well, it speaks for itself really.

In conclusion, I think banning the baby mega stone is the best route.

I do however, want to point out something else I have seen:

When MegaKen was banned, I saw a greater usage of MegaGar in players. Likewise when MegaGar was banned, there was an instant surge of MegaKahn players, and now she is being suspected. Some time ago I read a post that hypothesized that the mega evolutions were so broken that they countered each other and left OU versatile; I dismissed this as a bad joke but now I wonder if he was right all along.

It seems as though, from the pattern, once one mega evolution gets banned another takes its place. Then with banning the normal counters to this Pokemon it is also banned. Don't believe me? Look at all the guys talking about banning/ using MegaLuke once this is over.

So are all Mega Evo's just broken or something? And if not, does their brokenness actually balance out each other? Because the way we are heading already suspected MegaLuke (and... MegaWile...) we arew sure to ban every mega evo anyway.

Food for thought. Mega Kahn --> Ubers

Edit: Obviously I meant blaziken and not just megaken.

 

[PowerStyler]

So are all Mega Evo's just broken or something? And if not, does their brokenness actually balance out each other? Because the way we are heading already suspected MegaLuke (and... MegaWile...) we arew sure to ban every mega evo anyway.

Houndoom, Manectric, Ampharos, Banette, Abomasnow, Gardevoir. Mega Kangaskhan is hardly checked by any of these megas (possible exception Mega Banette, which threatens any Kangaskhan lacking Crunch with priority Will-o-Wisp or Destiny Bond. Even then, it's a shaky counter since turn order is determined before mega evolution.)

So no, not all mega evolutions are broken.

EDIT: That said, Mega Kangaskhan should be banned because it's just too easy to use and too tough to stop. It has very few counters, and most of its counters can still be eliminated with an unexpected coverage move (Fire Blast for Skarmory, for instance) without reducing the overall effectiveness of the set.

 

[Arash]

their brokenness does not balance each other out, the best mega rises to the top and dominates (see blaziken, gengar, kanga)

I vote for UBER, simply because most teams struggle to check him even once. When paired with lunar dance / healing wish, you can have 2 or even 3 mega-kangas fresh and ready for battle, and the only way of countering such a thing is to stock your team with 6 mega-kanga checks, which is hardly the metagame i'd like to see

 

[sidakarya]

When MegaKen was banned, I saw a greater usage of MegaGar in players. Likewise when MegaGar was banned, there was an instant surge of MegaKahn players, and now she is being suspected. Some time ago I read a post that hypothesized that the mega evolutions were so broken that they countered each other and left OU versatile; I dismissed this as a bad joke but now I wonder if he was right all along.

Mega Blaziken wasn't banned, all Blaziken were. And so far, the only mega ban has been Gengar. The only other one that might be suspected is Lucario, and that's at worst more "suspect" than "GO DIRECTLY TO THE UBERS, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200".

EDIT: And like I said before, people have been suspicious of M-Khan more than a month ago. They've also been suspicious of M-Gengar, before it started terrorising OU. There's no danger of say, M-Gardevoir or M-Manectric going to Ubers.

 

[Axe_Raider]

I can definently visualise the problems that megakhan would force upon ou. It issues seem to stem from the fact that power up punch is a move this generation. It just seems sad that a pokemon can be in uber with in item but nu without it. Never the less when your hold item give you 100 base stats as well as giving you a super charged life orb without recoil that ignore sturdy and dmgs through subs, the hold item is likely the problem. It's move pool, defensive stats, access to priority, power up punch and defensive typing allow it to beat the majority of the meta game. Stall could actually deal with it by throwing up a bunch of hazards, unfortunately the flying type rapid spin prevents this.

 

[-Tsunami-]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here, but I suppose I might as well. Mega Kangaskhan needs to be banned. It has the combination of STAB Return, Sucker Punch, and your choice between Crunch, Earthquake, and Fire Punch. So, you have an extremely powerful STAB move, an 80 Base Power priority move, and solid coverage; Crunch hits almost everything you would need Kangaskhan to hit so it is usually the best option, since even Ghost-Types cannot beat Kangaskhan with Crunch. Now, consider that all of these moves hit twice, and that the second hit is only 0.5x weaker than the first hit; not to mention, these moves are coming off of a Base 125 Attack stat. To top it all off, it also has access to a free Swords Dance that is also a Fighting-type move, meaning it can set itself up to sweep while simultaneously doing damage to the opposition. Add in a solid base 100 Base speed stat, massive bulk, for a sweeper, and the fact that regular Kangaskhan can hit Ghosttypes on the switch with Return or Power-Up Punch thanks to Scrappy before mega evolving, and you have a Pokemon that is clearly broken. Not even considering its access to Seismic Toss, which does 200 damage to any non-Ghost type, Mega Kangaskhan is clearly broken. Mega Kangaskhan barely has any true counters; one of the only real counters is Rocky Helmet Skarmory, which would not even exist if it were not for Kangaskhan. A counter has to be able to switch in to ANY move and either take another hit and threaten the Pokemon out, or outspeed it and threaten it out. There are no Fighting-types that COUNTER Mega Kangaskhan carrying Power-Up Punch / Return / Crunch / Sucker Punch; and Ghost-types cannot handle Crunch. Keep in mind that most of the Ghost-types do not even have recovery, so you will be hard-pressed to switch into Mega Kangaskhan twice even if they do survive a Crunch or two. Also, thanks to Sucker Punch, many faster Pokemon have no hope of beating it since they will just be KO'd; Power-Up Punch + Sucker Punch is a guaranteed OHKO on Terrakion, even. 100 Base Speed means that it can outrun a wide variety of threats, and this makes it even more deadly. What really takes Mega Kangaskhan over the top though, is its bulk. 105 / 100 / 100 defenses with this much power is just ridiculous; it is almost impossible to OHKO it without a super-effective STAB move. Unlike most Sweepers, revenging it with Pokemon such as Talonflame without weakening it first is suicide. This bulk also lets it Power Up Punch on a wide variety of threats, weakening your Pokemon while gaining +2 attack and putting it in the position to sweep one's entire team. Overall, Mega Kangaskhan is just too devastating of a threat in the metagame, and needs to be banned immediately due to its combination of power, coverage, priority, Speed, and bulk.

 

[tcr]

This thread has seriously gone on for 60 pages? Quickban it already! Previous calcs have already shown how broken hitting twice is.

For those saying "its brokenness is checked by other broken mons" the argument literally makes no sense. Cyclical arguments shouldnt be made for or against a ban like that, nor arguments how it doesnt do well in ubers or otherwise.

 

[Helix]

I think if you apply the same logic it took to ban Mega Gengar, than yes this should be banned 100%. Genger was oppressive and limited decisions because of that. Khan does the exact same thing but to a higher degree, it is a lot harder to use (pup + anything = sweep). I personally do not like this, because khan is my go-to mega but i agree that it is really good and an outcry at this level should not be ignored.

 

[Salt]

So I went to bed last night when the thread was at around 30 pages, thinking that the issue was most definitely resolved, and Kangaskhanite would be gone by morning...

 

[TacoBot]

I find the kind of thought process that goes behind determining how powerful a Pokemon is currently is outdated. The Megas have completely changed the field of play in that they are all incredible powerhouses and perfectly capable of beating one or two Pokemon all on their own. That's the entire point. Otherwise we might as well ban every single Mega right now because nearly every single one of them are strong enough to warrant banning at some point, including those "lower-tier" threats like Mega-Absol, Mega-Banette, Mega-Aggron, Mega-Venusaur, Mega-Blastoise and so forth. The metagame should be centralising around the use of Megas which I feel should be the defining factor of 6th Gen OU like how 3rd Gen was defined by stall in the form of SkarmBliss with Spikeshuffling and their counters, 4th Gen had this huge hoo-ha about Dragons and Sandstorm, 5th Gen had weather. I think that a metagame where teams move strategically using the Mega as a rallying point for their main strategy should be the equilibrium this generation.

Take for example Mega Aggron which literally no one has considered:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 126-150 (36.6 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 249-294 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 189-222 (54.9 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Aggron Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 153-180 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Aggron Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 192-226 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Who can check Mega Kanga without Earthquake fairly well and smash it right back in the face.

tl;dr - Megas are meant to be broken and fight each other

Even comparing against other ban candidates in the past, Mega-Kangaskhan is nowhere as broken as past threats like SubSD YacheChomp at the start of DPPt, who forced you to run three bulky waters/Dragons with a powerful Ice/Dragon move in order to take it down for sure because of Sandstorm and Sand Veil (of which the pool more or less consisted of defensive Starmie, Vaporeon, Cloyster, Salamence, another Garchomp). All Mega-Kangaskhan really asks for is maybe one dedicated counter that can still be used to wall other Physical threats maybe with a Rocky Helmet and one revenge killer who can live a +2 Sucker Punch (who will probably be useful to KO other threats or even sweep on its own lategame). That's it. Mega Kangaskhan can beat entire teams -- Nasty Plot MixApe did that for Gen 4 as well, you had to run a counter for it or instantly lose. "MixApe 6-0s this team, try again" was an incredibly common comment on many RMTs back then, it never came close to a ban. Mega Kangaskhan sweeps you -- Well Mega-Lucario, Mega-Charizard (both of them), DD Mega-Tyranitar all bust huge holes in teams, are you going to ban them too? Mega-Kanga has a lot of reasonable checks, some of which haven't even been discovered. A ton of Pokemon in OU require dedicated checks or are dedicated checks themselves. This isn't really any different from say Dragonite, Terrakion, Lucario, Garchomp or any other set-up sweeper other than the fact that you can't stay in on Power-Up Punch with a low HP Pokemon as opposed to staying in on Swords Dance/Dragon Dance and getting in a free hit.

I ran a mono-Flying team with Masquerain/Crobat/Mega Charizard Y/Togekiss/Gliscor/Talonflame and didn't lose to a single Mega Kangaskhan I ever met, if that means anything. that and I would rather ban Stealth Rock than Mega Kanga on the grounds of team diversity

 

[Uvood]

So I went to bed last night when the thread was at around 30 pages, thinking that the issue was most definitely resolved, and Kangaskhanite would be gone by morning...

Me too XD, the discussion in this thread ended like, 40 pages, nothing productive is coming from this thread any longer.

 

[madbadger]

The main problem with Kanga is not its power per se.... its more that its only solid counters are weird things like rocky helmet chomp/ skarm which we would never see if it wasn't for Kanga. As much as I like her evo, I think it is too over-centralizing for OU.

 

[Astrint]

We really should either ban them all or ban none of them. Each one that is banned is going to leave another to be considered "Too OP" so realistically, we should just cut to the end of the line and ban them all or accept the challenge implemented in the 6th gen because it isn't going anywhere from this gen onward. We'll be having the same discussion for garchomp and Tyranitar in the next couple weeks anyway. Why not just decide it now and be done with it.

 

[GRs Cousin]

Mega-Kangaskhan lacking Crunch are hard-countered by Trevenant. Return and Power-up Punch do nothing, Earthquake hardly does a thing even with the +2 boost, and Sucker Punch wouldn't activate on a turn you use Substitute or Will-o-Wisp.

Beyond that, however, Mega-Kangaskhan has little to absolutely no switch-ins. Teams can easily just include Heatran to remove Kangaskhan's sole counter, too, and we're still forgetting that Kangaskhan potentially have the move that OHKOs its supposed counter. At the very least, we should suspect-test it. I'm otherwise in favor of an immediate ban.

 

[Varnithis]

I find the kind of thought process that goes behind determining how powerful a Pokemon is currently is outdated. The Megas have completely changed the field of play in that they are all incredible powerhouses and perfectly capable of beating one or two Pokemon all on their own. That's the entire point. Otherwise we might as well ban every single Mega right now because nearly every single one of them are strong enough to warrant banning at some point, including those "lower-tier" threats like Mega-Absol, Mega-Banette, Mega-Aggron, Mega-Venusaur, Mega-Blastoise and so forth. The metagame should be centralising around the use of Megas which I feel should be the defining factor of 6th Gen OU like how 3rd Gen was defined by stall in the form of SkarmBliss with Spikeshuffling and their counters, 4th Gen had this huge hoo-ha about Dragons and Sandstorm, 5th Gen had weather. I think that a metagame where teams move strategically using the Mega as a rallying point for their main strategy should be the equilibrium this generation.

Take for example Mega Aggron which literally no one has considered:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 126-150 (36.6 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 249-294 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 189-222 (54.9 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Aggron Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 153-180 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Aggron Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 192-226 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Who can check Mega Kanga without Earthquake fairly well and smash it right back in the face.

tl;dr - Megas are meant to be broken and fight each other

Even comparing against other ban candidates in the past, Mega-Kangaskhan is nowhere as broken as past threats like SubSD YacheChomp at the start of DPPt, who forced you to run three bulky waters/Dragons with a powerful Ice/Dragon move in order to take it down for sure because of Sandstorm and Sand Veil (of which the pool more or less consisted of defensive Starmie, Vaporeon, Cloyster, Salamence, another Garchomp). All Mega-Kangaskhan really asks for is maybe one dedicated counter that can still be used to wall other Physical threats maybe with a Rocky Helmet and one revenge killer who can live a +2 Sucker Punch (who will probably be useful to KO other threats or even sweep on its own lategame). That's it. Mega Kangaskhan can beat entire teams -- Nasty Plot MixApe did that for Gen 4 as well, you had to run a counter for it or instantly lose. "MixApe 6-0s this team, try again" was an incredibly common comment on many RMTs back then, it never came close to a ban. Mega Kangaskhan sweeps you -- Well Mega-Lucario, Mega-Charizard (both of them), DD Mega-Tyranitar all bust huge holes in teams, are you going to ban them too? Mega-Kanga has a lot of reasonable checks, some of which haven't even been discovered. A ton of Pokemon in OU require dedicated checks or are dedicated checks themselves. This isn't really any different from say Dragonite, Terrakion, Lucario, Garchomp or any other set-up sweeper other than the fact that you can't stay in on Power-Up Punch with a low HP Pokemon as opposed to staying in on Swords Dance/Dragon Dance and getting in a free hit.

I ran a mono-Flying team with Masquerain/Crobat/Mega Charizard Y/Togekiss/Gliscor/Talonflame and didn't lose to a single Mega Kangaskhan I ever met, if that means anything.

I think this may have literally been Nintendo and Gamefreaks intent. However, as multiple past examples have proven (cough smash bros cough) Nintendo does not give a flying crap about a competitive meta or balance. Giving Blaziken a Mega almost feels like a slap in the face to the 6v6 communities like Smogon.

Ultimatly, this isn't a discussion about what was "intended". this si a discussion about SMOGON's competitve teiring and metagame and where Khan belongs. And I agree with the arguements presented: In the Smogon competitve teiring system, Khan hurts the game.

For evidence I can point to the final state of the Wifi ladders before they went down. Everyone was running Mega Khan above 1800, or a team with 3 Megakhan counters. It was SUPER centralized, to the point you saw maybe 5 pokemon EVER at that point. Khan and some mix of rocky helmet users or rough skin users. If you can say honestly that is not a problem and is a healthy metagame, then well... I must disagree.

 

[Salt]

We really should either ban them all or ban none of them. Each one that is banned is going to leave another to be considered "Too OP" so realistically, we should just cut to the end of the line and ban them all or accept the challenge implemented in the 6th gen because it isn't going anywhere from this gen onward. We'll be having the same discussion for garchomp and Tyranitar in the next couple weeks anyway. Why not just decide it now and be done with it.

I'm tired of all of these "all megas are OP and are only meant to counter each other" arguments. If we lay out each Mega individually in terms of brokenness, there is a GIGANTIC gap between ones that are actually broken, like Blaziken (who is broken in his base form anyway), Gengar, and Kangaskhan, and everything else. Gengar has super fast perish trap and high special attack, Kangaskhan has enough power to 2HKO SKARMORY with RETURN, combined with more bulk than Jirachi. The next one is.... Lucario? It's insanely powerful, yes, but MUCH easier to check due to its frailty. Everything else functions as a normal OU mon. You're not about to tell me that you're getting 6-0'd by Mega Gardevoir or Ampharos. "Ban all Megas" is a horrible philosophy to hold on to.

 

[Azure30]

I find the kind of thought process that goes behind determining how powerful a Pokemon is currently is outdated. The Megas have completely changed the field of play in that they are all incredible powerhouses and perfectly capable of beating one or two Pokemon all on their own. That's the entire point. Otherwise we might as well ban every single Mega right now because nearly every single one of them are strong enough to warrant banning at some point, including those "lower-tier" threats like Mega-Absol, Mega-Banette, Mega-Aggron, Mega-Venusaur, Mega-Blastoise and so forth.

This is entirely wrong though. Only a couple of the Megas are ban-worthy. MGeng and MKhan are the most obvious examples and are worthy of a quickban, a couple more are debatable like MLuke and will likely see suspect testing, and the rest are pretty standard fare... some are even honestly bad compared to their non-mega counterparts due to the loss of held item.

Why wouldn't everything you said apply to ubers, then? They are incredible powerhouses perfectly capable of beating one or two pokemon all on their own, and by design that IS indeed the entire point of their existence for most of them. So why shouldn't we allow ubers in standard play, when other players can just run other ubers to fight them accordingly?

Oh wait, we have that already, its called the Uber tier. Yes, its a banlist first, but its also a playable tier for some. Thats where pokemon that dominate the majority of the game belong. Mega Evolutions are no different by design than cover legendaries - they are intended to be super powerful, sure, I'll agree with you that may very well be the case from the developer's point of view. But we have cover legendaries outside of Ubers... and Mega Evolutions are defining proof that hold items are wildly important to many pokemon. Few of them are actually broken because of the loss of more specialized stat increases (like choice band/specs or even life orb).

But at any rate, if a pokemon is just too strong, its going to get the boot. Allowing powerful pokemon just because 'thats the direction the game is going' is ridiculous because the game has always had powerful pokemon so Gen 6's mega evolutions are really nothing new and allowing them or any other uber into standard play will bring back all the problems that warranted their banning in the first place: overcentralization and diminished viable options for competitive play.

 

[Orga777]

We really should either ban them all or ban none of them. Each one that is banned is going to leave another to be considered "Too OP" so realistically, we should just cut to the end of the line and ban them all or accept the challenge implemented in the 6th gen because it isn't going anywhere from this gen onward. We'll be having the same discussion for garchomp and Tyranitar in the next couple weeks anyway. Why not just decide it now and be done with it.

That is dumb. It has been covered that the rest of the megas are mostly fine. Lucario and Pinsir are the ONLY other two Mega's that would be even worth THINKING about banning, and they are both defensively weak and can't break Subs and Sashes. Oh, and you can swtich in safely more times with more pokemon than against Kanga.

These argument defeats the whole purpose of an Uber's Tier list as a whole. Might as well just let Arceus, Yvetal, and the like run wild because "they are supposed to do that."

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

We really should either ban them all or ban none of them. Each one that is banned is going to leave another to be considered "Too OP" so realistically, we should just cut to the end of the line and ban them all or accept the challenge implemented in the 6th gen because it isn't going anywhere from this gen onward. We'll be having the same discussion for garchomp and Tyranitar in the next couple weeks anyway. Why not just decide it now and be done with it.

This comment is filled with STUPID! Every bit of...do you hear yourself!? Not all Megas are broken--only the ones that are unhealthy to the metagame will beconsidered. Blaziken in its entirety was banned for good reason. Mega Gengar gave you a near 100% chance of victory when enough skill is behind it. Mega Kangaskhan's POWER is what's being looked at. I doubt we'll ban every Mega. Even Mawile and Banette, I doubt it at least, will be banned anytime soon. They have their merits as a Mega, so no harm done here.

I said this before, I'll say it again, THEN I'll make it my signature as a reference: When you post, don't just breathe; think.

 

[Dragontamer]

When MegaKen was banned, I saw a greater usage of MegaGar in players. Likewise when MegaGar was banned, there was an instant surge of MegaKahn players, and now she is being suspected. Some time ago I read a post that hypothesized that the mega evolutions were so broken that they countered each other and left OU versatile; I dismissed this as a bad joke but now I wonder if he was right all along.

STOP STOP STOP STOP. BLAZIKEN was banned. As was Deoxys-N. Mega-Blaziken has nothing to do with it. BLAZIKEN, your normal Blaziken, was deemed Uber. And Blaziken has been banned for 3 years now. The precedent on what is and isn't Uber has been set for generations. For the love of Pokemon, please understand the history of Smogon and the banlist before commenting! The powers that be at Smogon have decided to unban a number of Uber pokemon "for kicks". Consider this period the suspect testing period for all former-Uber pokemon, including Excadrill, Manaphy, Tornadus, Landorus-T, Genesect, and all of the other Uber Pokemon that have decided to "bless" the current metagame.

Blaziken was broken, even without its Mega Evolution. Normal Life-Orb Blaziken OHKO's Groudon with +2 High Jump Kick and is damn near impossible to revenge kill... and has access to Baton Pass to continue his momentum to another team member.

The current metagame is filled with utterly ridiculous crap, because Smogon is willing to test it out. We've dealt with Mega-Khan for 2 months now, I think we know that it isn't healthy for the Metagame.

Remember, this metagame is filled with previously-uber pokemon like Lati@s twins (DP Gen4 Ubers), Mew (DP Gen4 Uber) and Manaphy... and even THEY aren't seeing much usage because stuff like Mega-Khan towers over them. Smogon OU Metagame has beasts like two of the three forms of Kyurem (base and black)... and they are 680 Base-stat Cover Legendaries.

The bar for what is and isn't uber is set quite high, and anyone who has any "fee" for what is and isn't Uber clearly sees that Mega-Khan is far above and beyond the Uber-bar. As I said before, this period of OU should be considered the suspect test for all previous Ubers.

 

[bioober]

Although this is my first ever post, I honestly believe that Mega-Kangaskha shouldn't be banned.
First of all, in my opinion, this seems like it'll lead to a slippery slope. Next thing we know, we would want to ban Azumarill, Mega-Mawaile, even Diggersby for their abilities to reach sky high attack values while also retaining priority moves.
Secondly, Kangaskhan has a very predictable move pool which comes in the form of the Power-Up Punch, Sucker punch, and Return with a 4th varient move (from what I've seen) which more or less only may knock out one of your pokemon at most before you switch into a check/counter. Which comes in the form of various Steel, Ghost, or Fighting Pokemon depending on what 4th move it uses (faster fighting types usually being able to revenge kill it, like the Muskuteer Pokemons). I've also seen many Rocky Helmet Ferrothorns counter Mega-Kangaskhan multiple times, taking recoil damage twice. Sure it's a Choice Band with the ability to change up moves, but the same applies for the above pokemon I just stated and Life Orbed Pokemon usually hold the same fire power as a Parental Bond Mega-Kangaskhan.
Third, as for breaking Substitues/Focus Sashes, there are an immense number of priority users this generation to easily counter Focus Sash users, in addition a new improved "Infiltrator" ability allows pokemon such as Noivern and Crobat to easily break Substitute users. And let's be honest, why would you use a Substitute/Focus Sash pokemon against a Mega-Kangaskhan.

 

[Orga777]

Although this is my first ever post, I honestly believe that Mega-Kangaskha shouldn't be banned.
First of all, in my opinion, this seems like it'll lead to a slippery slope. Next thing we know, we would want to ban Azumarill, Mega-Mawaile, even Diggersby for their abilities to reach sky high attack values while also retaining priority moves.

You are joking right? Oh my god... This can't be a real argument...

Secondly, Kangaskhan has a very predictable move pool which comes in the form of the Power-Up Punch, Sucker punch, and Return with a 4th varient move (from what I've seen) which more or less only may knock out one of your pokemon at most before you switch into a check/counter. Which comes in the form of various Steel, Ghost, or Fighting Pokemon depending on what 4th move it uses (faster fighting types usually being able to revenge kill it, like the Muskuteer Pokemons). I've also seen many Rocky Helmet Ferrothorns counter Mega-Kangaskhan multiple times, taking recoil damage twice. Sure it's a Choice Band with the ability to change up moves, but the same applies for the above pokemon I just stated and Life Orbed Pokemon usually hold the same fire power as a Parental Bond Mega-Kangaskhan.

Go back and re-read the thread, as daunting as that may seem. ALL of your questions will be answered. There are NO Counters since NOTHING can switch in safely and they HAVE to let at the very least let ONE pokemon die for free. A shaky check comes in, Kanga laughs out of the battle back to the pokeball, and a COUNTER to that pokemon comes out. This is freaking serious.

 

[Azure30]

Although this is my first ever post, I honestly believe that Mega-Kangaskha shouldn't be banned.
First of all, in my opinion, this seems like it'll lead to a slippery slope. Next thing we know, we would want to ban Azumarill, Mega-Mawaile, even Diggersby for their abilities to reach sky high attack values while also retaining priority moves.
Secondly, Kangaskhan has a very predictable move pool which comes in the form of the Power-Up Punch, Sucker punch, and Return with a 4th varient move (from what I've seen) which more or less only may knock out one of your pokemon at most before you switch into a check/counter. Which comes in the form of various Steel, Ghost, or Fighting Pokemon depending on what 4th move it uses (faster fighting types usually being able to revenge kill it, like the Muskuteer Pokemons). I've also seen many Rocky Helmet Ferrothorns counter Mega-Kangaskhan multiple times, taking recoil damage twice. Sure it's a Choice Band with the ability to change up moves, but the same applies for the above pokemon I just stated and Life Orbed Pokemon usually hold the same fire power as a Parental Bond Mega-Kangaskhan.

Your opinion is factually wrong. I'd take the time to read this thread a little more thoroughly, or maybe even get some actual competitive scene experience before comparing things like Mega Kangaskhan to Azumarill, Mega Mawile or... wow.. Diggersby... really? Really?