I don't want this banned. I don't think Mega Kang over centralizes, he's one of the best mega's for sure but I don't think it's going to be a standard on most teams, there are a lot of other mega's that others are going to be using, and IMO are just as deadly (Pinsir, Lucario.) I'm also a guy who wants Gengarite and Mega Blaziken in ou, so I'm probably not the best judge
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Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
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In Blaziken's ban, Slowbro was specifically cited as not being a reason to not ban it, and Slowbro actually had useful resistances in that case rather than being neutral to STAB and weak to Crunch.
Stock Vacuum is not gonna kill Mega Kanga. You're much better off finding an opportunity too mega evlove and kill with Aura Sphere.
If we're talking counters/Checks to Mega-K, both Spiritomb and Gourgeist Super count. Both can switch into unboosted Crunches, survive the second crunch and burn it, making it useless. If they switch into a Power-Up Punch, they become counters as opposed to checks, and are able to sub up and start spreading some pain.
Just for the sake of Argument. That's 4 checks/counters.
Just for the sake of Argument. That's 4 checks/counters.
Please stop making these threads. Its painful to read ignorant noobs who dont know what a counter or check is but somehow have an opinion on the most dangerous Pokemon in the game. Just let the council do what it does best and save us the misery.
Oh yeah, I do keep forgetting that this things doesn't just smash faces in. Body Slam / Seismic Toss / Wish / Filler with a bulky EV spread would make a pretty dman good supporter for balanced teams through paralysis and Wish support, and the damn thing still manages to 2HKO basically everythjng with Seismic Toss. Lovely.
Pinsir and Lucario are good, but they don't run through the meta on their own practically. They do not have the combination of bulk and power, and are much easier too handle imo, since their counters are actually counters. But they have nothing to do with this discussion anyway, and as mentioned, can't be compared to Mega Kanga.
I've found Mega Kangaskhan extremely hard to fight against. The largest reason I feel it's so difficult to counter is because of its decent bulk and good speed. This makes it really hard to switch into. Still, I don't think it's really impossible. Trevenant is a hard and fast counter, assuming Kangaskhan is not carrying Crunch. Fast fighting types can switch in if they properly predict a Sucker Punch and can cause the Kangaroo some trouble. Scarf Lucario, Jolly Mienshao, and even Adamant Hawlucha can reliably (more or less with the latter 2, as High Jump Kick's 90 accuracy can mess you up, potentially) OHKO it. Choice Band Garchomp is still a threat and can wipe it out, and Scizor has reliable bulk to stand up to it and KO it in a Swords Dance set. Conkeldurr can also come in, assuming it doesn't switch in on a Return, and OHKO with Drain Punch or even 2HKO with Mach Punch (using calcs based on last gen's most popular Conkeldurr set). Once Pokebank comes in, then we get access to Superpower on Scizor, as well as Keldeo and Terrakion, two popular OU Fighting-type sweepers. Most of these guys are really popular and easy to tack on a team, so I don't see that we have to re-invent the wheel for Mega Kangaskhan.
When a pokemons best checks are either considered gimmicky or aren't considered OU Pokemon without said Pokemon around, the Pokemon in question is likely broken. Who can honestly admit they used rocky helmet skarmory before Mega khan or that they used dusclops at all. Sableye and rocky helmet ferrothorn are the only checks that I honestly remember seeing any significant use in OU last Gen and even those two were a rare sight. Mega gengar was manageable, albeit still powerful and a great team supporter, but Mega khan is just an unstoppable force that would be unquestionably ubers if it didn't take a up a Mega slot. Khan doesn't even need to setup to wreck teams. It practically gets a choice banded skill link tail slap coming off of 120 atk in return and it can run something for one of its checks in return. Mega khan is broken. Please send it to ubers.
Forgot about the fighting types that check it, but I still believe it to be broken.
Forgot about the fighting types that check it, but I still believe it to be broken.
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I think this thing should be out of ou. It can be countered better than you could with mega gengar but still it has so much rough power with good defense and pretty good speed. With a fake out it can take away 1/3 of life of so many Pokemon. Also ghost is not always the solution, from using him I'm able to easily predict when they will try to take a fake out so i use a crunch and OHKO them. Also with parental bond you can get an easy +2 with power up punch, Its like a sword dance with damage. After a +2 you can take out defensive threats like a gliscor with ease.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 180+ Def Gliscor: 346-409 (97.7 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Another issue is you need to have a ghost pokemon or another dedicated counter to Mega-Kang or you risk losing 1-3 pokemon with out you being able to do anything. Its unhealthy for a meta game to force a team to have a certain type of pokemon on a team always. Just like last gen ou, you almost needed to have a steel type for dragon spaming. If Mega Kang stays in ou this will be seen in almost all teams they will have to have a ghost type, and its already looking this way. That being said I love Mega Kang but he just is way to op to stay in ou.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 180+ Def Gliscor: 346-409 (97.7 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Another issue is you need to have a ghost pokemon or another dedicated counter to Mega-Kang or you risk losing 1-3 pokemon with out you being able to do anything. Its unhealthy for a meta game to force a team to have a certain type of pokemon on a team always. Just like last gen ou, you almost needed to have a steel type for dragon spaming. If Mega Kang stays in ou this will be seen in almost all teams they will have to have a ghost type, and its already looking this way. That being said I love Mega Kang but he just is way to op to stay in ou.
So you are one of the people who just doesn't understand the concept of broken. No offense but unless you got legit arguments to post, just don't bother.
Swords dance Scizor sets up one Swords dance and then, unless you have godlike prediction, get finished off by a sucker punch or he predicts you. That's a fifty fifty gamble not worth taking. Scarf Lucario is garbage, if you're using Lucario to revenge kill, find an opportunity to mega and bring him in on the revnege kill. And all the other fighting types can only barely take a plus 2 sucker punch, so they need to be extremely healthy to take a hit.
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 345-408 (87.5 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
no more talk about Slowbro. he's 2HKOed minimum and outsped like any other wall Kahn Faces.
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 240-285 (64.1 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gourgeist not much better
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 50-60 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Spiritomb is a bit better. It may get the burn but its useless thereafter.
and alot of you are missing the point. even if you DO stop mega khan, you lose. the thing has just punched a Grand Canyon sized hole in your team and it almost always has a sweeper on back up that WILL clean up. if Kang isn't cleaning up already. if the battle has taken ANY sort of toll on your defensive core and revenge killers THEY WILL DIE and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Revenging matters little, Khan isn't your typical set up sweeper, it can and will come back in and try again, it will switch out. if played half way well it can't be stopped.
no more talk about Slowbro. he's 2HKOed minimum and outsped like any other wall Kahn Faces.
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 240-285 (64.1 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gourgeist not much better
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 50-60 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Spiritomb is a bit better. It may get the burn but its useless thereafter.
and alot of you are missing the point. even if you DO stop mega khan, you lose. the thing has just punched a Grand Canyon sized hole in your team and it almost always has a sweeper on back up that WILL clean up. if Kang isn't cleaning up already. if the battle has taken ANY sort of toll on your defensive core and revenge killers THEY WILL DIE and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Revenging matters little, Khan isn't your typical set up sweeper, it can and will come back in and try again, it will switch out. if played half way well it can't be stopped.
scizor gets ohko'd by a +2 crunch iirc unless it mega evolves. not a good idea...
Mega kangaskhan is not that difficult to beat. Sableye is a good counter because it is immune to return, and power up punch; can slow it down with thunder wave or burn it with will-o-wisp, and strike back with foul play. Skarmory can also survive its attacks and set up spikes. Cofigrigus can also survive a sucker punch and cripple it with mummy and will-o-wisp. Aside from sucker punch, shedinja can wall it and burn it with will-o-wisp. Aerodactyl is also a good counter, along with its mega evolution.
Lol, then it's even worse XD. Mega Scizor would probably fare a bit better, but it's way too risky in any case.
I think this really boils this down to the bare essentials. As we keep banning megastones, the game playing community will keep switching to the next Mega Pokemon deemed "the strongest available." Certainly, some will use different megas than the new "strongest," but it will be hot potato until we have run out of OU viable mega pokemon.
I've considered several options, and I still don't know what to do with M-Khan. We have to admit that it's like trying to stop a train, but for the reasons above, we're kicking the can down the road until the inevitable conclusion of banning most of the megastones. My only recommendation is to rotate bans for a while until we can figure this thing out. Simply banning them all is going to cause more issues in the future (as well as increasing anti-Smogonism). We need to take our time with this, and hash out the consequences of banning these things. Mega Pokemon are new, so we have to figure out a better way to handle them. We need to evolve with the games as well.
My vote: Ban it for now, but we need to come back to this very, very soon. This is a problem that we can't just sweep under the rug, anymore.
Well the amount of teams I have seen actually run mega kang are high in number... But almost every time I was able to counter it with a mach punch or even priority brave bird on my other teams. I've never had a problem with it but I can see why its such a threat I'm not favor of the ban, I don't really care, but I think it's unnecessary needs to be banned
Only issue with this is that for most of the pokemon it will have to be a revenge kill meaning your going to have to lose one of your pokemon. Not many things can just switch into an attack from Mega Kang. Also when you do get them out all your going to do is make kang switch out, not defeat it. Then once it gets another switch in it will defeat another pokemon and so on so on. The best checks I found seems to be ghost pokemon with some bulk/status. If its a sucker punch Kang it can't do anything to you, although you need to watch out for crunch.
Sabeye does not get Thunder Wave, only stupid players stay in and let it burn. Skarm get's two hit koed by a plus two return appreantly, Cofagrigus is a good one, but the Kanga has no reason to stay in. Shedinja is awful, it dies too hazards and any residual damage. Aerodactyl probably get's one hit koed by Sucker punch, it's not that bulky.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 127-151 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO
Scizor is very unlikely to go 0/0, so with a classic Gen V spread...
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 255-300 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Admittedly, getting off of a boost would be rough in this situation. However, Choice Band Scizor (settling for Brick Break due to lack of Superpower right now)...
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 270-318 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And with Superpower...
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 430-508 (122.5 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, Scarf Lucario isn't great, but it still has uses, and it certainly isn't garbage against Mega Kangaskhan.
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 169-201 (60.1 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Plus, if Lucario eats a Sucker Punch, Justified activates, giving it a power boost that can wreck plenty of other Pokémon.
Yes this is true. I'm not saying Mega Kangaskhan necessarily shouldn't be banned, but we should consider a few more sides before everyone gets up in arms about it.
No people please use shedinja! I would love to get my porygon2 wonder guard.
fixed. seriously people Calcs. You know the ones we did pages a go and dismissed.
I agree with you. Ferrothorn is a staple on all of my teams, and it wrecks Mega-Khan for the most point. Gliscor checks it really well (resisting all moves but Sucker Punch, and having the capability to either Toxic or Swords Dance in those turns, depending on the set) as do most ghost types, Sub-Disable Gengar in particular. Especially if it's running a swords dance set.
As a counter-argument, it has bulk, and the ability to hit twice is almost better than a huge-power or pure-power boost, simply because it can break subs/Sash and hit again. With moves like PUP and Earthquake, this is incredibly disabling, not to mention Sucker Punch,
Whether it gets banned or not doesn't much matter. It has common checks, and what I think needs to be banned is the combination of a certain move with Kangaskhanite, such as either SuckerPunch/Kkite or PUP/Kkite, or something like that, rather than banning the entire item.
This allows for more versatile and unpredictable sets other than the main 2 that get used (Fake Out, PuP/Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Return/Earthquake) and allows us to keep the item, which is a wonderful change of pace, and is fun to battle against, if you have at least one counter.
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