You mean: ''Sacrificing my Ferrothorn and revenge killing with Talonflame''. Foddering a healthy physical wall is not normal.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
- Start date
- Status
Yeh, one hundred posts tho Edgar, congrats on this momentous occasion :D!
This is exactly the problem. First, you have to weaken it with Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn. Ferro dies, then you switch in Talonflame and KO. So basically, every time a MegaKhan switches in, you lose at least one Pokemon. This would never happen with a managable Pokemon, , but in Mkhan's case, you pretty much have to sack at least one Pokemon every game in order to safely kill it, which is ridiculous.
Exactly. Which is why if somebody waits until late game to bring him out, you're in a bad position.
They obv worship him, and bring sacrifices to Kanga too quell his rage, so the Talonflames can swoop down and take him back too the heavens whence he came!
And then it repeats itself, over and over...
I already addressed my Quasire argument, I agree with you that he does not make a counter. Also, many of them are not just checks. Terrak, for example, can take anything Kanga puts on him (except for a PuP on the switch), OHKO with CC, and kill or seriously dent the next thing. If the opponent tries to Sucker Punch to win, they will only succeed in giving Terrak a free swords dance, on top of whatever boost he already has.
True that, if you lose Ferro before Kanga comes out, your Talonflame will lack the power to KO Kanga, and when Talonflame dies before Kanga comes out, Ferro can weaken Kanga but she'll be left with some HP regardless, so you have to keep not one, but two Kanga checks/counters alive in that case, or you will lose. There's only a handful of real solid checks to Kanga out there (there's 4 or 5 common ones), which kinda limits your teambuilding a lot.
lol
I compare him to Shell Smash Cloyster, who also fucks over Substitutes/Sashes and is more powerful overall but after a turn of setup. But unlike Cloyster, nothing really walls this guy since he gets unresisted coverage with PuP+SP+Return. Not to mention that he doesn't have a single bad stat except for Special Attack... not that it matters.
sacrifice a wall to kill their mega? pretty worth it for me. im not saying its not broken, just saying there are ways to counter it as well.
Sorry, that post was made before yours.
In which universe HAVING TO SACRIFICE A POKEMON EACH TIME IT SWITCHS IN IS CONSIDERED "NOT BROKEN"???!!
So basically you admit to being bad at competitive battling then.
Since when is playing 5-6 the way to go?
But as stated, needing two Pokemon to counter it is not really a counter at all. Pretty sure revenge-killing doesn't make something a straight-up counter.
Loads of pokémons can really counter Kangaskhan. A offensive threat for him is Talonflame.
Talonflame, with is high HP EVs + high ATK EVs can KO Kangas easily because he have his OP Gale Wing... Brave Bird/Acrobatics can do tons of damage to Kangas.
Gengar can also do damage to Kangas. He levitate, and it is Ghost, wich means that eliminates 3 of 4 attacks from Kangaskhan (If he cast Focus Blast can OHKO that Mega Kanga).
Well, this is my oppinion. Kengas should stay in Overused tier.
Talonflame, with is high HP EVs + high ATK EVs can KO Kangas easily because he have his OP Gale Wing... Brave Bird/Acrobatics can do tons of damage to Kangas.
Gengar can also do damage to Kangas. He levitate, and it is Ghost, wich means that eliminates 3 of 4 attacks from Kangaskhan (If he cast Focus Blast can OHKO that Mega Kanga).
Well, this is my oppinion. Kengas should stay in Overused tier.
Sacrificing a wall to kill their mega? That might also mean that your opponent's Kyurem-B can come in and spam Outrage without fear. Is that really worth it?
Not to mention the fact that in the end, you're revenge killing Kanga with Talonflame, who can be set up on by anything that resists BB, or can simply be scared out (remember that when SR is up, Talonflame can't switch in again after recoil), so burd is rekt as well, basically.
I am conflicted here because I feel it should be banned because I've used it and it is ridiculous how easily it can plow through teams at +2 but then I think about how any pokemon with some set up can plow through teams. The difference seems to be how easily megakhan can set up and wreck others. Khan is bulky enough to take a few hits with base 100 def. and spdef. as well as an efficient base 105 hp which almost guarantees it will get to +2 and survive and with priority in sucker punch it doesnt have to worry too much about being outsped. Then again, status can cripple this thing worse than other pokemon. Being a normal type, while giving it STAB only in a type that hits nothing super effective, is actually great because it has a single weakness to fighting and i've already mentioned it's bulk assets and it has a diverse move pool. Also, more on a set I run, I use rock slide because parental bond is basically serene grace with extra damage. Khan's base 100 speed is great as well. Looking at what ive mentioned, it should be banned simply because the lack of weaknesses and diverse move pool allow it to set up and demolish teams a lot easier than other set up sweepers such as volcarona and salamence. I think it should be banned but I also want to say to the people who state that people are running rocky helmet ferro to stop it and that overcentralizes the meta, I want to mention that rocky helmet ferro was run early gen V and even late gen V in certain teams so that is not an example of people using a specific pokemon to counter a specific other poke. (Rocky helmet skarm though does seem oddly specific.)
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 288-340 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Barely over a 1/3 Chance to OHKO. Nevermind accuracy problems.
Talonflame will get wrecked by a MKhan if it hasn't been significantly weakened already.
Problem is that when the single best way to counter a pokemon, in any situation, is by LETTING SOMETHING DIE, then you know something's broken.
Of course, that "OHKO" focus blast won't even get used due to Sucker Punch. Also, Mega Kangaskhan is most certainly not OHKO'd by a Focus Blast from any Gengar not running specs.
That's no counter, THAT'S A CHECK. I guess we should do a VERY BIG SIGN SAYING: Counter is a pokemon that can switch in SAFELY into another pokemon and threaten/force it out. Gengar cannot come into Crunch and it dies to a combination of SuckerPunch/Crunch or Scrappy Kanga Return. Talonflame cannot come into any attack of Kanga, because it risks dying and leaving Kanga at +2.
There is so much wrong here, Mega Kanga survives Focus blast at full hp and kills with Crunch, which is more common than Eartquake. Talonflame barely even two hit kos, and is one hit koed back by return.
Edit:
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 262-310 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If M-Gengar is a sniper, M-Kanga is a juggernaut. It comes in, and before you can kill it - in most cases - it will have smashed through half your team, or made you lose your wall. The only way I am able to kill him, is by stacking faster priority.
It is good. TOO good to be OU. Send it to Ubers, and he will be fine.
It is good. TOO good to be OU. Send it to Ubers, and he will be fine.
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 157-186 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 27% chance to 2HKO
And after recoil, Kangaskhan can OHKO (or technically 2HKO, whatever) with Return. Doesn't help much.
Plus, many Megakhans carry Sucker Punch, so Gengar is totally out of the question.
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO (The set I run)
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So these require kanga to have already taken damage and gengar cannot take a sucker punch at all and even if kanga is not running sucker punch, a 252 hp kanga from full health survives a focus blast and retaliates killing gengar.
- Status