SM OU Keldeo-R Offense Team

[SilverNote3]

Keldeo-R Bulky(?) Offense Team​

Keldeo is probably one of the most unique viable Pokemon in the tier. A unique STAB combination with solid coverage and an amazing Chansey killing Special move gives this piece of brony bait the tools to be effective in this metagame. However, with the sheer amount of awesome water types like Tapu Fini and Mega Gyarados around, this little pony gets lost in the shuffle. So here is my humble attempt to shine a well deserved spotlight to hit us with the old razzle-dazzle. As with any RMT, improvements and advice are welcome. Hopefully this will be more well thought out than my first RMT...

Teambuilding Process​

Hide

Ah, yes, the central starting point of my team's core. This little wallbreaker is brilliant against any number of walls, beating the likes of Mega Sableye, Gliscor, and even luring in a Toxapex expecting Scarf. Unfortunately, his dual types don't do anything for him defensively, so he can't set up with impunity most times.

Y u no work Bulu sprite? Ah well, anyways all forms of Keldeo-R struggle vs. bulky water types like Slowbro and Rotom-W, so obviously I needed to pair Keldeo with something that can break through them. Bulu was the premier choice since he can tank the electric attacks and Keldeo can switch in on the fire and steels Bulu doesn't appreciate(Fudge you Heatran lol). Koko has similar synergy and trades the ability to hit Swampert for Pelipper, however Grassy Surge is REALLY hard to pass up.

Niether Keldeo nor Bulu can hit the majority of grass types hard enough so to round out the core we have Tornadus. Bonus points for being one of the better pivots and defoggers in the tier. Yay, role compression!

So with great defoggers comes great opportunity. MegaZard X was something I didn't expect to put here since he was the focal point of my first RMT but hecc he's so good atm. I needed a wincon and he beats most steels bar Tran and most players assume Earthquake. And even when they don't assume EQ Keldeo just beats any Heatran not packing Nature Power or Bloom Doom.

Was missing some speed control at this point and Kartana is arguably the absolute best at this. Coupled with Grassy Surge boosting Leaf Blade to obscene levels, and honestly it is terrifying to face. Very prediction reliant tho.

Need a Stealth Rock user and reliable check to opposing Kartana? Lando is your best bet. Plus most teams need at least one ground type so check off that benchmark.

The Team​

Keldeo-Resolute @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt
​

The primary wallbreaker, mainly for luring and 1v1ing Toxapex. Pretty standard fare, CM boosting, STAB, yadda yadda. It's worth noting however that Taunt and CM really ease my matchup vs. stall.

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect
​

My primary bulky water check and Greninja punisher. Bulk Up shores up his Defense, tho I admit I've not used his physical def side much so I may try out SD. Superpower is to punish arrogant Heatran and Ferrothorn, and Protect helps scout scarf users.

Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
​

Defog is an absolute necessity these days and Torn is really good at it. More standard fare, tho Rocky Helmet is featured to punish voltturn shenanigans from U-Turners like Mega Scizor.

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
​

My primary win condition. If he gets in healthy then manages a dance he's very hard to revenge kill. I tend to reserve him for late game unless Kartana locked itself into Leaf Blade or Blacephalon locks into Flamethrower.

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
​

Just a REALLY good mon rn. Used as a panic button when things go south, this paper sword thing has bailed me out of a few jams.

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 112 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Earthquake
​

My hazard setter, he doubles as a Kartana check. Speed EVs outspeed Adamant Zygarde without a boost, tho I'll drop them to 144 for Timid Heatran. Also a good defensive pivot :3

Conclusion​

So there's the team, leave all thoughts in the comments and thanks for reading!

Importable

Keldeo-Resolute @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect

Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 112 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Earthquake

 

[lando-t is god]

You should change outrage to dragon claw or earthquake because that team is a bit scared of magearna koko

 

[SilverNote3]

You should change outrage to dragon claw or earthquake because that team is a bit scared of magearna koko

Wouldn't Flare Blitz hit both hard?

 

[Diophantine]

Hey there the chosen nerd, this seems like a pretty cool team. There are some things that I would change, however.

Firstly, I noticed quite a Kartana weakness, so I tweaked the Tornadus' EVs to give you a better time with damage rolls. (Reducing the probability of Leaf Blade in Terrain 2HKOing from 74.2% to 17.2%). Scarf Landorus' probability to OHKO you with Stone Edge gets reduced from 85.5% to 50% which can make a massive difference (considering it only hits 80% of the time too) in a battle.

I also changed Charizard's nature to Jolly to be able to outspeed non-Choice Scarf Landorus, Tapu Lele and Kyurem, which I thought were pretty important benchmarks. If you do not think that 328 speed is necessary, then you can use this set

Hide

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

I would also give it Earthquake over Outrage because Heatran looks tough your your team to deal with as your only switchin is this (which wouldn't be able to hurt it back) or Keldeo (which gets worn down over time), and would stop a sweep with your Charizard.

The biggest change I would make is the removal of Scarf Kartana in favour of Scarf Weavile. This is to be able to deal with Alakazam better as you are able to trap it, and your opponent may not expect the Scarf. Because of Weavile's speed tier, we're able to get away with running Adamant. Knocking Off Toxapex's Black Sludge is really nice for Keldeo to shut it down.

An optional change that you could make is Keldeo being Leftovers instead of Waterium Z and Scald over Hydro Pump. This means that, say, a burn from a Toxapex Scald won't be able to throw you off too much. It's less important, however, but could be something to consider.

Here are my changes importable:

Hide

Keldeo-Resolute @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect

Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Defog
- Knock Off

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Weavile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Foul Play

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 112 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Earthquake

I hope you enjoy my changes. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[SilverNote3]

Hey there the chosen nerd, this seems like a pretty cool team. There are some things that I would change, however.

Firstly, I noticed quite a Kartana weakness, so I tweaked the Tornadus' EVs to give you a better time with damage rolls. (Reducing the probability of Leaf Blade in Terrain 2HKOing from 74.2% to 17.2%). Scarf Landorus' probability to OHKO you with Stone Edge gets reduced from 85.5% to 50% which can make a massive difference (considering it only hits 80% of the time too) in a battle.

I also changed Charizard's nature to Jolly to be able to outspeed non-Choice Scarf Landorus, Tapu Lele and Kyurem, which I thought were pretty important benchmarks. If you do not think that 328 speed is necessary, then you can use this set

Hide

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

I would also give it Earthquake over Outrage because Heatran looks tough your your team to deal with as your only switchin is this (which wouldn't be able to hurt it back) or Keldeo (which gets worn down over time), and would stop a sweep with your Charizard.

The biggest change I would make is the removal of Scarf Kartana in favour of Scarf Weavile. This is to be able to deal with Alakazam better as you are able to trap it, and your opponent may not expect the Scarf. Because of Weavile's speed tier, we're able to get away with running Adamant. Knocking Off Toxapex's Black Sludge is really nice for Keldeo to shut it down.

An optional change that you could make is Keldeo being Leftovers instead of Waterium Z and Scald over Hydro Pump. This means that, say, a burn from a Toxapex Scald won't be able to throw you off too much. It's less important, however, but could be something to consider.

Here are my changes importable:

Hide

Keldeo-Resolute @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect

Tornadus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Defog
- Knock Off

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Weavile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Foul Play

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 212 HP / 112 Def / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- U-turn
- Earthquake

I hope you enjoy my changes. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

The changes mostly make sense, tho I have to say that Waterium Z works too nicely as a nuke vs. Hyper Offense teams to pass up. That said, I'll test out your recommendations, I admit I overlooked MegaZam a little.

 

[Diophantine]

The changes mostly make sense, tho I have to say that Waterium Z works too nicely as a nuke vs. Hyper Offense teams to pass up. That said, I'll test out your recommendations, I admit I overlooked MegaZam a little.

Now that I think about it, Tornadus looks tricky for this team to deal with. Perhaps we could go with Assault Vest Magearna over Bulu and then we need to consider our Zygarde answers. While yes, Landorus is a decent check to it, the Glare set means we no long outspeed it, and Toxic (or just chip in general) means that over time we may have a problem with it.

Hide

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Fleur Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

We could take several routes here. Give Charizard a Dragon type attack (D Claw) but we must forgo Dragon Dance.
We could give Tornadus HP Ice as an emergency check (does 55% min to non-invested Zygarde)


Either way, the team doesn't give Zygarde too many opportunities to get it, but it can be tricky to deal with over the course of a long game.

 

[SilverNote3]

Now that I think about it, Tornadus looks tricky for this team to deal with. Perhaps we could go with Assault Vest Magearna over Bulu and then we need to consider our Zygarde answers. While yes, Landorus is a decent check to it, the Glare set means we no long outspeed it, and Toxic (or just chip in general) means that over time we may have a problem with it.

Hide

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Fleur Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

We could take several routes here. Give Charizard a Dragon type attack (D Claw) but we must forgo Dragon Dance.
We could give Tornadus HP Ice as an emergency check (does 55% min to non-invested Zygarde)


Either way, the team doesn't give Zygarde too many opportunities to get it, but it can be tricky to deal with over the course of a long game.

Can I be honest? Zygarde doesn't bother me at all since he'll likely catching the banhammer anyways

 

[xapx]

Hi, that's quite an interesting team you've come up there! However, there are several huge problems with the team which I'm going to address here, so keep on reading!

Some major threats

Heatran is a huge problem for the team, with Mega Charizard X and Keldeo being your only switch-ins. Keldeo really doesn't appreciate taking unnecessary damage, since you don't even have Leftovers to begin with; while Charizard gets crippled by constantly switching into Magma Storm and Earth Power, and it cannot threaten Heatran with anything, as Heatran is immune to Flare Blitz and resistant to Outrage. Neither of them appreciates Toxic from Heatran, making Keldeo a less effective Calm Mind sweeper and Mega Charizard X taking even more damage from entry hazards, Flare Blitz recoil and Toxic poison.

Any offensive Magearna can set up and proceed to either severely weaken or sweep your team. Your "checks" Landorus-T and Mega Charizard X are caught by Ice Beam and Fleur Cannon (2HKO for unboosted, OHKO for Twinkle Tackle). Tapu Bulu is already pressured enough to check Ash-Greninja, Zygarde, Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and a whole bunch of threats, and therefore should not be used as your check to Magearna.

Literally nothing on your team can switch into Tornadus-T's Hurricane, and your Scarfer is Kartana, which is checked by Torn-T.

Hyper Offense teams

HO teams blow your team back, and it's no surprise. There is a lack of strong defensive backbone, while checks seem to be present, they are compressed for roles and needed to be checking more Pokemon than they should.

There are a lot more threats, but these are the most important ones that have just popped into my mind.

By the way, LandoT isn't a reliable check to Kartana.

Major changes
My first change is

to

.
While Kartana really appreciates Grassy Terrain support and is a really good Scarfer right now, I feel like having Mega Heracross to weaken some of Keldeo's checks before it can actually safely start boosting up is better. In your RMT, you mentioned that Kartana is very prediction reliant. In Mega Heracross's case, it can come in on Pokemon like Bulu, Tang, Zyg, Lando, basically stuff that can't threaten you with much (You should look out for Toxic from Zyg (Glare as well) and Chansey), and Substitute up. Remember not to Mega Evolve until the opposing Heatran is gone, as Jolly Mega Heracross cannot outspeed Timid Heatran, while regular Jolly Heracross can. Substitute helps ease prediction, allowing you to weaken stuff like Bulu Tangrowth Fini Toxapex and Mega Venusaur with repeated powerful Close Combat or Bullet Seed. It can threaten Heatran naturally with Close Combat, unlike Kartana (without boosts), which fails to 2HKO a healthy Heatran with Sacred Sword.

Mega Heracross

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Seed

My second change is

to

.
Tornadus-T, while being a great Defogger, worsens your matchup against Pokemon like Blacephalon, Heatran, and Magearna. Don't worry, the role of Defogger has been given to another Pokemon. Ash-Greninja improves your matchup against Blacephalon and Heatran, while luring and weakening similar checks to both Ash-Greninja and Keldeo like Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, Tangrowth, and Magearna. Ash-Greninja is pretty much self-explanatory, but I'll give a little elaboration on the Spikes. Quoting from the on-site analysis: "Spikes support is recommended since Keldeo can gain a lot of OHKOs with Hydro Vortex; Shift Gear Magearna and Zygarde fall to Hydro Vortex after one layer of Spikes, and Keldeo's use of Taunt complements hazards quite nicely." That is to say Ash-Greninja not only weakens shared checks with Keldeo, but it also reinforces this by putting up layers of Spikes, pressuring them greatly. Spikes also improve your matchup against Zygarde, which is, like Diophatine said, a pretty big threat if it gets a turn to set up.

Ash-Greninja

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

My third change is

to

.
While Mega Charizard X is an amazing wallbreaker, I felt like he was just dumped randomly into your team when I read your thought process. Specially Defensive Heatran can improve your matchup against Heatran, Magearna, Tornadus-T, Tapu Lele, Mega Alakazam, and Steel-types bar Excadrill. Heatran greatly appreciates Keldeo and Ash-Greninja weakening Gastrodon, Tapu Fini, Mew, and Ground-types for it, and appreciates Grassy Terrain tremendously, giving it recovery alongside Leftovers and weakening Earthquake for it. Lava Plume is really nice to spread burns, especially against physical attackers like Lando-T or Mega Tyranitar, as well as walls like Toxapex, allowing the team to break through them more easily. The role of Stealth Rock is given to Heatran, as it's an amazing, consistent Stealth Rocker, as well as being able to deal with defoggers like Zapdos and Tornadus-T. Toxic helps with Pokemon like Mega Alakazam, Gastrodon, and Mega Latias, while chipping down walls like Zapdos for Mega Heracross or Mega Alakazam for itself weakens the foe for the team, giving you a more solid and easy wincon.

Heatran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

My fourth change is

.
The set you gave LandoT was really weird, and with the changes, we're still missing a Scarfer and a Defogger. What's better than good o' Landog-T! Lando improves your matchup against Mega Mawile and Mega Medicham, while also acting as a Ground- and Electric-type resist. While both of these are already covered in Tapu Bulu, these are nearly mandatory, since allowing the opponent to click Earthquake and force Bulu out isn't a good idea, and blocking Volt Switches from the likes of Rotom-W and Tapu Koko is pretty useful.
We fit the role of speed control and Defogger on Lando-T, and there is the changed team done.

Landorus-T

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 Atk / 68 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Earthquake

Here's the team! (Click on the picture)


I hope you enjoyed my rate, and if you have any questions feel free to either tag me XxAwesomePlayzxX or just quote this rate.
Have fun and good luck in your battling!
​

 

[SilverNote3]

View attachment 152983View attachment 152984View attachment 152985View attachment 152986View attachment 152987View attachment 152988View attachment 152989View attachment 152990View attachment 152991
Hi, that's quite an interesting team you've come up there! However, there are several huge problems with the team which I'm going to address here, so keep on reading!

Some major threats
View attachment 152831
Heatran is a huge problem for the team, with Mega Charizard X and Keldeo being your only switch-ins. Keldeo really doesn't appreciate taking unnecessary damage, since you don't even have Leftovers to begin with; while Charizard gets crippled by constantly switching into Magma Storm and Earth Power, and it cannot threaten Heatran with anything, as Heatran is immune to Flare Blitz and resistant to Outrage. Neither of them appreciates Toxic from Heatran, making Keldeo a less effective Calm Mind sweeper and Mega Charizard X taking even more damage from entry hazards, Flare Blitz recoil and Toxic poison.

View attachment 152833
Any offensive Magearna can set up and proceed to either severely weaken or sweep your team. Your "checks" Landorus-T and Mega Charizard X are caught by Ice Beam and Fleur Cannon (2HKO for unboosted, OHKO for Twinkle Tackle). Tapu Bulu is already pressured enough to check Ash-Greninja, Zygarde, Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and a whole bunch of threats, and therefore should not be used as your check to Magearna.

View attachment 152834
Literally nothing on your team can switch into Tornadus-T's Hurricane, and your Scarfer is Kartana, which is checked by Torn-T.

Hyper Offense teams
View attachment 152835View attachment 152836View attachment 152837View attachment 152838View attachment 152839
HO teams blow your team back, and it's no surprise. There is a lack of strong defensive backbone, while checks seem to be present, they are compressed for roles and needed to be checking more Pokemon than they should.

There are a lot more threats, but these are the most important ones that have just popped into my mind.

By the way, LandoT isn't a reliable check to Kartana.

Major changes
My first change is View attachment 152979toView attachment 152978.
While Kartana really appreciates Grassy Terrain support and is a really good Scarfer right now, I feel like having Mega Heracross to weaken some of Keldeo's checks before it can actually safely start boosting up is better. In your RMT, you mentioned that Kartana is very prediction reliant. In Mega Heracross's case, it can come in on Pokemon like Bulu, Tang, Zyg, Lando, basically stuff that can't threaten you with much (You should look out for Toxic from Zyg (Glare as well) and Chansey), and Substitute up. Remember not to Mega Evolve until the opposing Heatran is gone, as Jolly Mega Heracross cannot outspeed Timid Heatran, while regular Jolly Heracross can. Substitute helps ease prediction, allowing you to weaken stuff like Bulu Tangrowth Fini Toxapex and Mega Venusaur with repeated powerful Close Combat or Bullet Seed. It can threaten Heatran naturally with Close Combat, unlike Kartana (without boosts), which fails to 2HKO a healthy Heatran with Sacred Sword.

Mega Heracross

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Seed

My second change is View attachment 152980toView attachment 152981.
Tornadus-T, while being a great Defogger, worsens your matchup against Pokemon like Blacephalon, Heatran, and Magearna. Don't worry, the role of Defogger has been given to another Pokemon. Ash-Greninja improves your matchup against Blacephalon and Heatran, while luring and weakening similar checks to both Ash-Greninja and Keldeo like Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, Tangrowth, and Magearna. Ash-Greninja is pretty much self-explanatory, but I'll give a little elaboration on the Spikes. Quoting from the on-site analysis: "Spikes support is recommended since Keldeo can gain a lot of OHKOs with Hydro Vortex; Shift Gear Magearna and Zygarde fall to Hydro Vortex after one layer of Spikes, and Keldeo's use of Taunt complements hazards quite nicely." That is to say Ash-Greninja not only weakens shared checks with Keldeo, but it also reinforces this by putting up layers of Spikes, pressuring them greatly. Spikes also improve your matchup against Zygarde, which is, like Diophatine said, a pretty big threat if it gets a turn to set up.

Ash-Greninja

Greninja-Ash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes

My third change is View attachment 152992toView attachment 152993.
While Mega Charizard X is an amazing wallbreaker, I felt like he was just dumped randomly into your team when I read your thought process. Specially Defensive Heatran can improve your matchup against Heatran, Magearna, Tornadus-T, Tapu Lele, Mega Alakazam, and Steel-types bar Excadrill. Heatran greatly appreciates Keldeo and Ash-Greninja weakening Gastrodon, Tapu Fini, Mew, and Ground-types for it, and appreciates Grassy Terrain tremendously, giving it recovery alongside Leftovers and weakening Earthquake for it. Lava Plume is really nice to spread burns, especially against physical attackers like Lando-T or Mega Tyranitar, as well as walls like Toxapex, allowing the team to break through them more easily. The role of Stealth Rock is given to Heatran, as it's an amazing, consistent Stealth Rocker, as well as being able to deal with defoggers like Zapdos and Tornadus-T. Toxic helps with Pokemon like Mega Alakazam, Gastrodon, and Mega Latias, while chipping down walls like Zapdos for Mega Heracross or Mega Alakazam for itself weakens the foe for the team, giving you a more solid and easy wincon.

Heatran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

My fourth change isView attachment 153003.
The set you gave LandoT was really weird, and with the changes, we're still missing a Scarfer and a Defogger. What's better than good o' Landog-T! Lando improves your matchup against Mega Mawile and Mega Medicham, while also acting as a Ground- and Electric-type resist. While both of these are already covered in Tapu Bulu, these are nearly mandatory, since allowing the opponent to click Earthquake and force Bulu out isn't a good idea, and blocking Volt Switches from the likes of Rotom-W and Tapu Koko is pretty useful.
We fit the role of speed control and Defogger on Lando-T, and there is the changed team done.

Landorus-T

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 Atk / 68 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Earthquake

Here's the team! (Click on the picture)
View attachment 153004

I hope you enjoyed my rate, and if you have any questions feel free to either tag me XxAwesomePlayzxX or just quote this rate.
Have fun and good luck in your battling!
​

Couple things: Who's the wincon here? Seems that with the only setup mon left being Keldeo-R, breaking any defensive team becomes a tall order. Even Heracross has its limits (I just outright lose to Unaware Clefable 6-0) which will be extremely common until (and probably after) Zygarde's ban. Balance and stall don't need them ofc, but any form of Bulky Offense really needs it bad. Keldeo-R is by no means a sweeper, way too slow for that.

Also, i think you misunderstood ZardX's place here. His wallbreaker set is 3 attacks + Roost. This is a DDance sweeper, so I'm confused on why you called him a wallbreaker.

Third, I fail to see any improvement on my Tornadus matchup. Fightinium-Z Tornadus is very common rn so Heatran isn't very reliable as a check, especially as Torn appreciates the introduction of Heracross.

Lastly, I have a bit of a point on Greninja. In your critique, you mentioned changing Kartana because he's highly reliant on prediction. Greninja is even moreso. Say I bring him in on Lando, expecting him to switch. I throw out Spikes, and my opponent EQs. Best case scenario it's Defensive and I live with like 30%. Worst case he's offensive Z move and I just sacked one of the most potent wallbreakers for one layer of Spikes. He's basically a coin flip mon.

Hoping for a reply, because in spite of my concerns, you're post was well thought out and reasonable.

 

[xapx]

Couple things: Who's the wincon here? Seems that with the only setup mon left being Keldeo-R, breaking any defensive team becomes a tall order. Even Heracross has its limits (I just outright lose to Unaware Clefable 6-0) which will be extremely common until (and probably after) Zygarde's ban. Balance and stall don't need them ofc, but any form of Bulky Offense really needs it bad. Keldeo-R is by no means a sweeper, way too slow for that.

Also, i think you misunderstood ZardX's place here. His wallbreaker set is 3 attacks + Roost. This is a DDance sweeper, so I'm confused on why you called him a wallbreaker.

Third, I fail to see any improvement on my Tornadus matchup. Fightinium-Z Tornadus is very common rn so Heatran isn't very reliable as a check, especially as Torn appreciates the introduction of Heracross.

Lastly, I have a bit of a point on Greninja. In your critique, you mentioned changing Kartana because he's highly reliant on prediction. Greninja is even moreso. Say I bring him in on Lando, expecting him to switch. I throw out Spikes, and my opponent EQs. Best case scenario it's Defensive and I live with like 30%. Worst case he's offensive Z move and I just sacked one of the most potent wallbreakers for one layer of Spikes. He's basically a coin flip mon.

Hoping for a reply, because in spite of my concerns, you're post was well thought out and reasonable.

I hope this will be able to help you.

Heracross can actually break through Unaware Clefable (and no, we don't really run Unaware Clef outside of Stall teams unless you run into it randomly on the ladder, and most usually low- to mid-ladder), and is a reason why Tapu Bulu is such an important teammate.

252 Atk Heracross-Mega Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 240-285 (60.9 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

I do admit, without Pin Missile, it will be rather difficult to take down the Mega Eon twins, but you have Greninja, as well as Heatran + Grassy Terrain and Choice Scarf Landorus-T. If you feel like Calm Mind Stored Power Mega Latias is too much for the team to handle, Rock Slide can be changed to Explosion on Landorus-T to KO it after some prior damage.

244 Atk Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 250-295 (68.6 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I did mistype Mega Charizard X's role as a wallbreaker, but wincons aren't defined as only 1 Pokemon. Your wincon could range from clicking Water Shuriken several times to clicking U-turn on Landorus-T.

If you feel like Fightinium Z Tornadus-T is a huge problem for your team, you can even go for Protect over Toxic just to scout. Or, you can just go Lando-T if you expect it since Torns don't usually stay in on Heatran and go for U-turn.

To be honest I only ever mentioned Kartana being prediction-reliant since you mentioned it yourself in the RMT, but you do have a point.

To answer all of these questions like your "wincon", whether or not it's Fight-Z, and whether you should Spike up or just go for Hydro/Dark Pulse, instead of typing a large text of all which is probably found everywhere, here's a short version with an example.
Team Preview
No joke, but this can actually be done in the team preview.

Let's use ABR's team as an example. Of course, we all know this team, since it was used in one of Pokeaim's videos and quite a good team tbh. But let's forget that and take a look.

1. The Scarfer is obviously Lando-T. Although Scarf Greninja is a thing, Protean Greninja really doesn't seem to fit in this team, as the team doesn't seem particularly weak to either Zygarde (Tang + Lando), LandoT (Tang + Torn), Volcarona (Lando and Tran), or Mega Charizard Y (Tran). It also doesn't need Protean Greninja's help in luring in and weakening Pokemon like Bulu, Fini, or Tang with Gunk Shot, it can deal with Pex just fine, Magearna is checked by Tran + Tang, and Chansey is pressured by 2 Knock users and having to switch into several special attackers.

2. The team has problems with powerful Psychic- and Fairy-types like Lele and MegaZam, so we can actually assume that Heatran is not a Z-Move user, but Specially Defensive, since Tangrowth alone is unable to check PsychicSpam reliably.

3. That leaves Torn or Gren to have the Z-Move. Is Kartana and Mega Medicham kept in check? Yes, Lando-T and Torn-T can check MegaCham, and Tang can be used in the emergency. Kart is easily kept in check by Lando + Tran + Tang, assuming they don't get too weakened. So Torn is prolly the Z-Move user, and Ash-Greninja is Specs.

4. The only thing we don't know is whether MegaZam is Timid or Modest, so we'll have to be careful with it.

5. Looking at the team, Spikes might be useful for Tang and chipping Gren, but aside from that it doesn't have much use, we'd be better off clicking Dark Pulse.

6. Our wincon here is either Greninja clicking Dark Pulse or Keldeo, but we should weaken Tangrowth and definitely get rid of Mega Alakazam.

Not the most advanced guide, but I think this can help you a lot as well:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...lf-betterment-in-competitive-pokemon.3624435/

 

[SilverNote3]

I hope this will be able to help you.

Heracross can actually break through Unaware Clefable (and no, we don't really run Unaware Clef outside of Stall teams unless you run into it randomly on the ladder, and most usually low- to mid-ladder), and is a reason why Tapu Bulu is such an important teammate.

252 Atk Heracross-Mega Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 240-285 (60.9 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

I do admit, without Pin Missile, it will be rather difficult to take down the Mega Eon twins, but you have Greninja, as well as Heatran + Grassy Terrain and Choice Scarf Landorus-T. If you feel like Calm Mind Stored Power Mega Latias is too much for the team to handle, Rock Slide can be changed to Explosion on Landorus-T to KO it after some prior damage.

244 Atk Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 250-295 (68.6 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I did mistype Mega Charizard X's role as a wallbreaker, but wincons aren't defined as only 1 Pokemon. Your wincon could range from clicking Water Shuriken several times to clicking U-turn on Landorus-T.

If you feel like Fightinium Z Tornadus-T is a huge problem for your team, you can even go for Protect over Toxic just to scout. Or, you can just go Lando-T if you expect it since Torns don't usually stay in on Heatran and go for U-turn.

To be honest I only ever mentioned Kartana being prediction-reliant since you mentioned it yourself in the RMT, but you do have a point.

To answer all of these questions like your "wincon", whether or not it's Fight-Z, and whether you should Spike up or just go for Hydro/Dark Pulse, instead of typing a large text of all which is probably found everywhere, here's a short version with an example.
Team Preview
No joke, but this can actually be done in the team preview.
View attachment 153011
Let's use ABR's team as an example. Of course, we all know this team, since it was used in one of Pokeaim's videos and quite a good team tbh. But let's forget that and take a look.

1. The Scarfer is obviously Lando-T. Although Scarf Greninja is a thing, Protean Greninja really doesn't seem to fit in this team, as the team doesn't seem particularly weak to either Zygarde (Tang + Lando), LandoT (Tang + Torn), Volcarona (Lando and Tran), or Mega Charizard Y (Tran). It also doesn't need Protean Greninja's help in luring in and weakening Pokemon like Bulu, Fini, or Tang with Gunk Shot, it can deal with Pex just fine, Magearna is checked by Tran + Tang, and Chansey is pressured by 2 Knock users and having to switch into several special attackers.

2. The team has problems with powerful Psychic- and Fairy-types like Lele and MegaZam, so we can actually assume that Heatran is not a Z-Move user, but Specially Defensive, since Tangrowth alone is unable to check PsychicSpam reliably.

3. That leaves Torn or Gren to have the Z-Move. Is Kartana and Mega Medicham kept in check? Yes, Lando-T and Torn-T can check MegaCham, and Tang can be used in the emergency. Kart is easily kept in check by Lando + Tran + Tang, assuming they don't get too weakened. So Torn is prolly the Z-Move user, and Ash-Greninja is Specs.

4. The only thing we don't know is whether MegaZam is Timid or Modest, so we'll have to be careful with it.

5. Looking at the team, Spikes might be useful for Tang and chipping Gren, but aside from that it doesn't have much use, we'd be better off clicking Dark Pulse.

6. Our wincon here is either Greninja clicking Dark Pulse or Keldeo, but we should weaken Tangrowth and definitely get rid of Mega Alakazam.

Not the most advanced guide, but I think this can help you a lot as well:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...lf-betterment-in-competitive-pokemon.3624435/

That actually answers all of my questions very well, thank you! You make a lot of sense (and btw I've been watching that exact video series for like a week now LOL #coincidence)

I appreciate your patience with me

 

[SilverNote3]

Also XxAwesomePlayzxX imma take 4 EVs from SpAtk on Heatran and add them to speed to creep opposing SpDef Heatran. Lemme know if I miss out on any important KOs doing that

 

[xapx]

Also XxAwesomePlayzxX imma take 4 EVs from SpAtk on Heatran and add them to speed to creep opposing SpDef Heatran. Lemme know if I miss out on any important KOs doing that

Not really, you're good