Virizion gets beaten down with Secret Sword, so I don't think it's much of a problem, but the others will definitely give you a major headache should you choose to run HP Bug. I don't really think it's worth it since Celebi is pretty uncommon in the metagame, but it certainly has its niche.
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Keldeo
- Thread starter New World Order
- Start date
Is it bad that the first time I saw this pony I immediately thought of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic?
On a more serious note, Kelp is kind of amazing in or outside of rain, although rain is always beneficial to this MLP-wanna-be. As we've all discovered prior to this thread, it's 100% deadly and few things can safely switch into this little guy.
HPGhost should always be used on Kelp, unless you, for some reason, have issues with Dragonite, who still takes a chunk from Hydro Pump, as we've learned from NixHex' post. It hits everything Kelp should be scared of, Jelli, Lati@s, Dragonite, though not super-effectively, and Gallade, though Hydro Pump and Surf hit Gallade harder.
Definitely not a slash, but maybe a separate set altogether? It's kind of like Scarf Terrakion and Band Terrakion, they're the same premise, in a way, but aim to accomplish different feats, in actuality.
On a more serious note, Kelp is kind of amazing in or outside of rain, although rain is always beneficial to this MLP-wanna-be. As we've all discovered prior to this thread, it's 100% deadly and few things can safely switch into this little guy.
HPGhost should always be used on Kelp, unless you, for some reason, have issues with Dragonite, who still takes a chunk from Hydro Pump, as we've learned from NixHex' post. It hits everything Kelp should be scared of, Jelli, Lati@s, Dragonite, though not super-effectively, and Gallade, though Hydro Pump and Surf hit Gallade harder.
Definitely not a slash, but maybe a separate set altogether? It's kind of like Scarf Terrakion and Band Terrakion, they're the same premise, in a way, but aim to accomplish different feats, in actuality.
Tell me if it's already said since i didnt read all the posts.Firstly I'd like to say that latias may be a very good counter but for a CM keldeo its not much of a solution.Rain and LO Boosted +1 hydro pump followed by a +1HP ice would probably KO.Same goes for celebi.Also scarf Keldeo should be given a mention because it can outspeed fast threats like scarf genesect,Deoxys-S,Scarf Garchomp etc..With rain it can still hit hard with stab water attacks.Keldeo might be used outside rain with chande who can perhaps come in on a predicted jellicent switch and KO with shadow ball.
Latias is going to be switching in on the Calm Mind. You're assuming it's going to sit there twiddling its thumbs (?) while Keldeo hits it with a +1 rain-boosted Hydro Pump and a +1 super effective Hidden Power, as opposed to the realistic situation of Latias either nuking Keldeo with Draco Meteor / Psyshock or setting Calm Mind up itself. Keldeo is not going to win a CM war against Latias.
oops, forgot to mention psyshock.In the thread it said Latias will roar it out so i
posted that.And by a hitting it with hydro pump i meant on the switch in.But I might be right about celebi because keldeo outspeeds it.It might come in after sacrificing something but that needs to be stated,besides with enough calm minds keldeo might just be able to land a KO on celebi.
There's also the fact that both Latias can use Recover, so any feeble attempts by Keldeo to damage it would be futile.
Celebi does have access to Giga Drain and Recover. While I haven't actually run calcs about how well Celebi takes hits or anything, rest assured that if Keldeo DOES beat Celebi, it won't have easy time doing so.
Celebi does have access to Giga Drain and Recover. While I haven't actually run calcs about how well Celebi takes hits or anything, rest assured that if Keldeo DOES beat Celebi, it won't have easy time doing so.
Thanks for clarifying.But that means celebi should run enough hp and sp def EVs.But one issue still remains because both the hidden powers does super effective damage.So an ideal keldeo counter is latias running recover and psyshock.But one thing about celebi is not clear to me yet.It may have access to giga drain but defensive EV spread and boost from calm mind will give it trouble.so celebi can be more effective with psyshock i guess.So wouldn't running a offensive scarf celebi with psyshock be better for keldeo?and it can trick the scarf to an oncoming wall.
Celebi doesn't have access to Psyshock, unfortunately.
EDIT: Another really cool counter to Keldeo is Slowking. Back when Blaziken was still allowed, I used to check him as well. With excellent Special Defense, resistances to both of Keldeo's STABs, reliable recovery, Regenerator, Psyshock, and Dragon Tail, there is no way Keldeo will get past this beast. It also had decent physical defense to tank some Fighting-types. A bit unfortunate that Genesect likes to U-turn on it, but you can always Fire Blast it on the switch, I guess.
EDIT: Another really cool counter to Keldeo is Slowking. Back when Blaziken was still allowed, I used to check him as well. With excellent Special Defense, resistances to both of Keldeo's STABs, reliable recovery, Regenerator, Psyshock, and Dragon Tail, there is no way Keldeo will get past this beast. It also had decent physical defense to tank some Fighting-types. A bit unfortunate that Genesect likes to U-turn on it, but you can always Fire Blast it on the switch, I guess.
Quite an interesting idea there shrang.Slowking does look like a perfect counter.even if its weak to keldeo's common hidden powers it makes up for it with huge sp def and it can use Regenarator(in case it doesn't get the chance to slack off) to shake off the damage.And it can wall other rain pokes very well too.Plus it looks like it can form a good defensive core with Gliscor.Thanks.
Have to say, Toxic Spikes support really does both help and hinder Keldeo. I run Custap lead Forry just so the one layer helps against the likes of Keldeo, Chandy, etc.
Keldeo is the special Terrakion, everything is basically 2hkoed by rain boosted specs hydro pump aside from Jellicent and max sp. def latias which we don't see.
Salamence seems to be Keldeo's partner in crime, especially choice scarf Moxiemence, which takes out most of Keldeo's checks (Jellicent, Latias, Celebi, Dnite (breaks the multiscale for Keldeo to clean up)) with an Outrage.
Scarfed Chandy also seems to be a reasonable partner, takes out Jellicent, Latias, Celebi, etc.
Ditto is a nice check to all sets without the Sub, as Secret Sword ignores the CM boosts to special defense (watch out for Chandy though!)
But yeah, is pretty strong, and like Terrakion's Band set 2hkos everything, including resists (aside from Jellicent, which Toxic Spikes/HP Ghost takes care of with substitute)
Also, maybe a sub + 3 attacks could be considered? Although it doesn't boost up with Calm Mind, it just hits hard off the bat with a LO Hydro Pump/Secret Sword/HP of some time based on the team's needs (probably outclassed, but still a possibility)
Keldeo is the special Terrakion, everything is basically 2hkoed by rain boosted specs hydro pump aside from Jellicent and max sp. def latias which we don't see.
Salamence seems to be Keldeo's partner in crime, especially choice scarf Moxiemence, which takes out most of Keldeo's checks (Jellicent, Latias, Celebi, Dnite (breaks the multiscale for Keldeo to clean up)) with an Outrage.
Scarfed Chandy also seems to be a reasonable partner, takes out Jellicent, Latias, Celebi, etc.
Ditto is a nice check to all sets without the Sub, as Secret Sword ignores the CM boosts to special defense (watch out for Chandy though!)
But yeah, is pretty strong, and like Terrakion's Band set 2hkos everything, including resists (aside from Jellicent, which Toxic Spikes/HP Ghost takes care of with substitute)
Also, maybe a sub + 3 attacks could be considered? Although it doesn't boost up with Calm Mind, it just hits hard off the bat with a LO Hydro Pump/Secret Sword/HP of some time based on the team's needs (probably outclassed, but still a possibility)
My favorite keldeo set by far is LO under rain. I ran a team where the whole purpose was to get as many layers of spikes up as possible, get rid of opposing weather, and then have keldeo go to town. Seriously, very few pokemon can take a single hit from keldeo with a couple layers of spikes (and hopefully rocks). I won a ton of games simply by spamming spikes, switching in politoed, letting it die, and sweeping with keldeo.
However, as powerful as keldeo is, I think there is one crucial factor that keeps it very much not-broken; its inability to hurt its counters. This is primarily due to its extremely limited movepool; if this thing got ice beam and/or thunderbolt, it would probably be broken. As it is though, however threatening keldeo may be, it is very easy to throw one of the pokemon that counters it onto the team and never have to worry about it again. For example, I currently run a sand team that is extremely weak to both water and fighting, with a bulky latias thrown onto it, and I can't remember the last time a keldeo got a KO against me. I'm not saying it's not good--just that, despite its power, it really is not too hard to just shut it down.
However, as powerful as keldeo is, I think there is one crucial factor that keeps it very much not-broken; its inability to hurt its counters. This is primarily due to its extremely limited movepool; if this thing got ice beam and/or thunderbolt, it would probably be broken. As it is though, however threatening keldeo may be, it is very easy to throw one of the pokemon that counters it onto the team and never have to worry about it again. For example, I currently run a sand team that is extremely weak to both water and fighting, with a bulky latias thrown onto it, and I can't remember the last time a keldeo got a KO against me. I'm not saying it's not good--just that, despite its power, it really is not too hard to just shut it down.
Only if you're a Brony.Is it bad that the first time I saw this pony I immediately thought of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic?
As with the new form, I wonder what it's going to turn out like...oh well, more guessing to come.
