Yeah, we're talking about a ladder not even running key moves often >60% of the time. 70% is a huge statistic representative a trend as a whole, not just bullshit ladder players.
Also PokeAimMD is a legitimate Pokemon player j/s
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Kingdra [QC: 0/3]
- Thread starter Josh Morales
- Start date
Also PokeAimMD is a legitimate Pokemon player j/s
He is a legitimate player, yes indeed but he loves overhyping stuff that aren't totally viable, are gimmicky, or aren't a most efficient use of a pokemon e.g. last night his most recent video was about Specs Genesect, which isn't even in OO in the current Genesect analysis. 70% is a gargantuan statistic, though, I'll give you that one.
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I may not be QC, but... is there any reason Politoed is not mentioned in the Team Options section? We can run Drizzle + Swift Swim now, and Kingdra absolutely loves not being to have to waste a turn setting up its own rain.
I'm pretty sure I did mention it... but if i didn't... oops
EDIT: yeah, that's strange I could've sworn I had that in there. Changing it now.
Maybe a should recommend it as the first and best set so I can laugh when I battle someone with Critdra >:)
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Ok, so there a few things in this analysis that need to be addressed, not all relating to CritDra in particular but it was the general focus of this reply. From the beginning shall we?
I may be missing something, but is there ever an occasion where you would want this to miss?
You should mention what Waterfall hits harder than Hydro Pump.
This is obvious and can be removed. There a multitude of other possible usage tips to beef up this section a bit.
Politoed is the most important teammate for a SS set and should be listed first.
Examples?
Specs Genesect is amazing
This is where we get to examples of ignorance. This makes CritDra sound terrible which a) it isn't and b) is bad for newer players as it gives them false information. For one, Sniper boosts Crits do 2.25%, higher than Nasty Plot. Because of crit mechanics Draco Meteor doesn't lower Kingdra's effective special attack. It ignores defensive buffs from calm mind users. And terrible base speed stat? 85 is by no means bad, maybe a bit underwhelming but by not as terrible as you make it out to be. Also you say any decently fast sweeper is able to revenge kingdra but in the overview you say it is difficult to revenge due to bulk and typing. And by saying commonly recognized as the worst viable set is incorrect and there is no statistics to back it up. If anything it is the most viable set as 70% of a community can disagree with "commonly recognized". It isnt that difficult to accomplish like you say, and isnt outclassed due to being able to break through defensive boosts and spam draco meteor. It is not a gimmick if it is recognized as a commonly used, viable set. This paragraph is completely biased and shows no effort of even testing the kingdra set on PS. You just dismissed it as a gimmick immediately. It merits its own set as it has a multitude of benefits and is an effective sweeper. After special sweeper maybe, but it is viable, effective, and worth a set.
1. Sorry, but 85 base speed is terrible for a sweeper with no way to boost its speed(besides BP, but that applies to everything). 100 speed is considered not enough for certain pokemon(those without priority such as Mega Gardevoir), what do you think 85 is?
2. My condescending of CritDra was biased, but it way in no was it far from the truth. If you really insist on adding CritDra as a completely viable set and still won't back down despite its momumental downfall, then I guess I will play a bunch of games on PS with CritDra, if I must.
Did I say you ever would?
Sorry, I'll reword that. "When you least want it to miss"
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Yea, there is. When Storm Drain or Water Absorb user switch in, you would want Hydro Pump to miss.
Your saying you haven't tested it at all. In order to write an analysis, most will assume you have actually tried it instead of just theorymoning; now we know that you are saying it's bad without even using it! I strongly recommend you try it, even though it seems like you didn't read anything I said.
That is incredibly situational and obviously unnecessary.
Okay, I understand. I'll give it a try, but I'm still very skeptical of its viability when I could just use Tail Glow Manaphy.
Yeah, it does face competition with Manaphy, the main advantages are being able to ignore defensive boosts and to use Draco Meteor without repercussion.
True, true, but I see ignoring defense boosts as incredibly situational because it's quite uncommon to see that and spamable Draco is strong, but then you realize that LO+Tail Glow is about a 3.3 times boost to power and Sniper crits are a 2.25 times boost. On top of that Manaphy has significantly better bulk and a usable speed.
ofc lo + tail glow manaphy is powerful but that doesn't displace the viability of critdra...
i talked to pk gaming a few days ago about this, and he pretty much said that when you run kingdra, it is either rain sweeper or crit. critdra has some awesome things to it. first is obviously the power behind crits. second is the thing i think you're missing spammable no drawbacks 140 bp stab. that's absolutely ridiculous, and you're crazy if you downplay the effectiveness of that.
252 SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 199-235 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you run a Modest Kingdra because you don't really need Timid:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 217-258 (71.3 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And the Water STAB:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not that much less powerful, and you have that excellent Draco Meteor.
I chose Deoxys-D as an entirely random target; don't read anything into it, it's just for a power demonstration.
Kingdra also has an arguably better typing that Manaphy, leaving it not weak to Grass and Electric while granting it benefits like 4x Fire and Water resist. It gets weak to Dragon and Fairy, true, but:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon on a critical hit: 216-256 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So Sylveon can't even switch in after Kingdra has set up Focus Energy. And we all know that Draco Meteor wrecks Dragon-types...so nothing that it's weak to can do much besides revenge kill it (other than Azumarill, which Manaphy has a better match-up against due to Energy Ball.
When another Pokemon that's not Exploud has a no drawbacks 140 BP STAB after one turn up and can wreck some of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier with ease, you tell me Critdra isn't good. But, based on the evidence, I can't see why it wouldn't be.
i talked to pk gaming a few days ago about this, and he pretty much said that when you run kingdra, it is either rain sweeper or crit. critdra has some awesome things to it. first is obviously the power behind crits. second is the thing i think you're missing spammable no drawbacks 140 bp stab. that's absolutely ridiculous, and you're crazy if you downplay the effectiveness of that.
252 SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 199-235 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you run a Modest Kingdra because you don't really need Timid:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 217-258 (71.3 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And the Water STAB:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D on a critical hit: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not that much less powerful, and you have that excellent Draco Meteor.
I chose Deoxys-D as an entirely random target; don't read anything into it, it's just for a power demonstration.
Kingdra also has an arguably better typing that Manaphy, leaving it not weak to Grass and Electric while granting it benefits like 4x Fire and Water resist. It gets weak to Dragon and Fairy, true, but:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon on a critical hit: 216-256 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So Sylveon can't even switch in after Kingdra has set up Focus Energy. And we all know that Draco Meteor wrecks Dragon-types...so nothing that it's weak to can do much besides revenge kill it (other than Azumarill, which Manaphy has a better match-up against due to Energy Ball.
When another Pokemon that's not Exploud has a no drawbacks 140 BP STAB after one turn up and can wreck some of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier with ease, you tell me Critdra isn't good. But, based on the evidence, I can't see why it wouldn't be.
Yeah, I've thought about it the past few days and I'll give it a set, and I never doubted its power, my issue has always been base 85 speed and no priority. Pokemon like Mega Mawile, Bulky SD Megazor, or Bisharp can sweep with bad(and even worse) speed stats, but that's because they have access to powerful priority. It just seems far too situational to sweep for me to give it a set because you're only going to sweep very very slow bulky and slow teams, although it is undoubtedly incredible at that.
When I give it a set, in the Team Options section, should I mention that a fast sweeper like Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, or Talonflame are good teammates because Kingdra won't hardly ever be sweeping hyper offensive teams.
Kingdra has Agility. It seems pretty viable to run a double dance set, as Kingdraa's STABs provide enough coverage by themselves.
agility is definitely plausible, though the option to run ice beam or a reliable stab is pretty compelling. it can get a moves section mention. also notable are sticky web support (smeargle) and scolipede support.
also, you don't necessarily play critdra as a sweeper. it can do that sometimes, sure, but it's more of a hole puncher that dents some things majorly, perhaps netting a couple kills, and leaving something else suited for cleaning to finish the job.
also, you don't necessarily play critdra as a sweeper. it can do that sometimes, sure, but it's more of a hole puncher that dents some things majorly, perhaps netting a couple kills, and leaving something else suited for cleaning to finish the job.
I think it might be worth mentioning Escvalier as a check to Critdra, because it can sometimes run Shell Armor to ruin Critdra's day.
Jukain said:
Minor nitpick, but draco meteor was nerfed to 130 bp this gen, and it has a 10% chance to miss.
Jukain said:
That is not a realistic scenario. If I have a healthy Sylveon waiting in the wings, I will switch it in immediately, not dick around for 1 turn while you set up focus energy, then bring in Sylveon on hydro pump to get 2HKOed. Meanwhile, Sylveon OHKOes with hyper voice after SR (and has an 81.3% chance to do it without SR). So staying in on Sylveon is not a good idea.
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