Kingdra wrecking havoc

[Fuuton]

Hey, I'm Fuuton und this is my first RMT :)

Building this team brought a lot of difficulties to overcome due to my lack of knowledge about the current metagame.
Not much time goes by before one notices that weather is the most important issue to cope with right now. Therefore I thought of 'how to beat weather easily'. My answer: Kingdra. So without further ado:
(Changes are in red)

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 240 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Signal Beam

Kingdra is the crux of my team. I thought of how to beat weather teams and Kingdra provides the answer: With its Swift Swim ability up its sleeves, Rain-Teams are guaranteed some serious headaches. Usually, I deal with all the other weathers by waiting until their weather inducer has fainted, so that I can clear the weather with Kingdra and threaten to sweep right through unprepared teams. I chose a Special variation, because otherwise WoW would ruin my fun. Although I still have to watch out for T-waves. Draco Metoer is there for obvious reasons: Unless the opponent's steel-types are at good health, this powerful STAB-LO-Draco Meteor definitely KOs one pokemon. Hydro Pump is there for the same reason. STAB-LO-RAIN-Hydro Pump threatens even Ferrothorn.
Signal Beam hits Celebi, a common switch-in against Kingdra.
The thing about Kingdra is I usually have to wait until late game, since LO-recoil and entry hazards shorten Kingdra's life span reasonably. Additionally, Kingdra doesn't like really steel-types in particular. Some bulky water-resists, that are not 2HKOed by two consecutive Draco Meteors mean trouble as well. But I guess that is something its fellow teammembers have to make up for.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 52 HP / 232 SAtk / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover

Starmie as suggested by joshe. It keeps the field free of entry hazards, which is greatly appreciated by Salamence and Kingdra.
Scald over Hydro Pump / Surf because Kingdra already provides this wallbreaking capability, so Starmie can go for the burn.
Psyshock is the secondary STAB that hits all those common fighting-types for super effective damage.
Recover ensures that Starmie stays healthy over a longer period of time. This is crucial, since the longer the game lasts the more hazard damage is accumulated, thus easeing a Kingdra/Lucario/Mence sweep.
So I guess Starmie fits in pretty well :)

Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

The scarfer of my team. This set is pretty standard yet effective. Though this behemoth usually revenge kills just one pokemon and then goes for the sweep. With Kingdra and Lucario softening the steel-types and other defensive threats it is likely that one of those will be able to sweep in the end. But there are a few things I have to watch out for: Mamoswine completely shuts down Salamence and is not that easy worn down by Stealth Rock due to its neutrality regarding rock-type. Moreover, last time some Dragonite hit me with Extreme Speed for 58%, which means I can switch into Stealth Rock maximum one time and have to watch out for +1 Extreme Speed.
Even though, this guy rarely lets me down. The second ground-immunity is quite useful, too.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Crunch

Lucario's one-turn setup often endangers my opponents. Close Combat even breaks through Skarmory and Lucario ensures that my opponent has to keep his physical wall healthy, which is not always an easy task. Extreme Speed runs through faster and frailer pokemon like Infernape. Crunch deals with Jellicent and Reunclus.
I loved Lucario ever since DPPt, so I've decided that he also poses a threat today.
Lucario also provides much needed priority to this team, though +0 Extreme Speed is not that strong.. In emergency cases he acts as a revenge killer.

Landorus - T @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This Landorus-T was also suggested by joshe. It sets up SR pretty reliably. Even with that little investment into Atk, it still sports a massive Atk stat of over 370. So STAB-earthquake still hurts a lot. Stone Edge is also a great attacking move but its low accuracy sometimes makes me regret using Stone Edge. Yet the raw power makes up for that. U-Turn provides great scouting abilities, while also hitting psychic-types for super effective damage. Especially Celebi and Starmie are hit hard by U-Turn.
That electric-type immunity Landorus possesses really comes in handy as well :)

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyroball
- Power Whip

This Ferrothorn set was suggested by joshe as well. Ferrothorn provides a second form of entry hazards which is essential to rack up damage. Leech Seed and Leftovers work well in conjuction as it heals Ferrothorn steadily. Leech Seed combined with Iron Barbs rack up a considerable amount of passive damage as well. Gyroball and Power Whip serve as Ferrothorn's STAB moves so that Ferrothron is no set-up fodder or has to fear Taunt.
In addition, its dragon- and eletric resistance are useful, too.






Threats:

- Rotom-W : This guy is really a pain in the ass xD Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, Pain Split, WoW are really annoying and I dont know how to deal with that.

- Mamoswine: I've got nothing that I can really switch in and he demolishes Salamence, Jirachi, Donphan, Gengar and weakened Kingdra..





Yeah, that was my RMT and I hope you can help me fixing my problems :)

P.S. I think I might be lacking Volt Switch / U-Turn... and priority.. Scizor maybe? Instead of Donphan?
​

 

[joshe]

I've been looking at this team for a while and trying to figure out what I could do to make it better without changing the first 4 members of your team and I think i've got it. One thing you could do and I think this is the best thing you can do is put stealth rock on Jirachi and use a different spinner. I really dislike donphan and I don't feel it fits very well on your team. You would be much better off with something such as Starmie over Donphan. Starmie gives you a solid check in Keldeo and some other fighting types while still giving you rapid spin support. This is pretty much self explanatory and I feel would be a better fit for your team than donphan. The set I have listed below would probably be your best option of starmie. The moves differ and its pretty much preference from there on. You can also run more HP by just swapping SAtk and HP evs around but again, it's preference.

Starmie Set

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 52 HP / 232 SAtk / 224 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump / Scald / Surf
- Ice Beam / Recover
- Psyshock

Also as I previously mentioned, try putting Stealth Rock on Jirachi over Protect. Good Luck with your team and I hope you like my suggestion!

 

[Fuuton]

Thanks for the rate! I have considered putting SR on Jirachi to be able to change Donphan, so I am currently testing your idea with Starmie > Donphan. Additionally I thought that a specially defensive Heatran could possibly fit in over Jirachi. It is also specially defensive, is able to put lay down SR and is capable of phazing. So how about Heatran > Jirachi ?

P.S. I noticed that with Starmie > Donphan I am quite weak to electric-type attacks.. Rotom-W's Volt Switch really messes me up xD

 

[joshe]

I'm not too big on the idea of heatran over jirachi for a few reasons. Phazing isn't THAT important if you only have Stealth Rock on the field and you do handle opposing Volcarona pretty well which is what heatran would do. Volc can be handled by mence decently and you have Lucario priority to handle it anyway. I think you could start testing out different sets of Jirachi I suppose but I would rather look into changing one of your other members. You could always run something like Starmie over Gengar, Ferrothorn over Donphan, and something such as Landorus-t over Jirachi if you really want to handle some threats such as Rotom-w, Keldeo, and opposing rain and this would also give you spikes but you would have to go without your "favorite" member of the team in Gengar. You can always try this out though and see what you like best. I'll list the smogon pages for Landorus-T and Ferrothorn if you want to test them but this is a pretty drastic change and I'm rather hesitant to do this as a team rater. The first sets of each webpages should do nicely if you want to try out this change. You will be able to handle some threats better and abuse spikes as well; your team does force a lot of switches by themselves and you wouldn't need a phaser. You will probably be a bit more weak to jellicent though without Gengar but you should be able to play around it atleast.

Just some food for thought and maybe an idea for a different suggestion if you want to go this route. It would involve changing 3 pokemon which I would consider a failed rate normally but I feel you're willing to try out some new stuff and willing to "improve" your team I guess. I feel your team is pretty solid offensively as is with a few weaks, including your Rotom-w weakness of course and maybe a slight Terrakion weak. Ferrothorn, Landorus-t, and Starmie would shore up those weaknesses and wouldn't give you too many in return aside from a slight Jellicent and Celebi weak but you can run U-turn and Gyro Ball should do enough. Also for Kingdra I would suggest Signal Beam over Surf if you try out these changes just because it blows Celebi to shreds which would be greatly needed without Gengar.

Good Luck with your team and I'll make sure to keep an eye out on this thread if you want to clarify a few things or ask a few questions :)

 

[Fuuton]

wow! that rate really helped! I've now tested Starmie > Gengar with that defensive Starmie set you suggested before (Rapid Spin / Scald / Recover / Psyshock) and defensive Landorus-T > Donphan (with SR / U-Turn / Earthquake / StoneEdge) and Ferrothorn > Jirachi (with Spikes / Leech Seed / Gyroball / Power Whip).
That Signal Beam over Surf also hits Starmie for super effective dmg, so I dont have to use DM or hope HydroPump will not miss and OHKO.

But I noticed some minor issues while testing:
- I lack a spinblocker, so in case the opponent has a spinner, setting up hazards is not that effective
- Somehow I feel like I pose too little early- and midgame offensive presence.. just a feeling
- Breloom is kind of annoying mid and earlygame.. he simply puts something to sleep, which is sucky

Anyways, thanks for your help! I really appreciate that ability to look at a team and pinpoint its weaknesses and know how to fix it :)

 

[TGMD]

Hey Fuuton, nice team!

I'm not quite sure if you've made the changes you listed above or if you're just stating that you tested them because you haven't actually specified which it is, and the OP doesn't reflect any changes to the team, lol. Because of this, I'll just focus on the issues you listed. I suggest running Custap Berry Skarmory over Ferrothorn / Jirachi. This thing is amazing, it's a suicide lead that has Custap Berry, a berry that gives whatever move you make +1 priority if you have 25% HP or less. This berry combined with Skarmory's Sturdy means you can almost always set up at least Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes. This will stengthen you earlygame immensely because it allows you to set up hazards in the first few turns and then bring in your sweepers immediately afterwards. Skarmory's Brave Bird can also act as a form of spinblocking, if Skarmory has been knocked down to Custap range and you're up against a Spinner, you can go for the priority Brave Bird and the recoil will KO you, meaning they can't spin the hazards away. If they do manage to survive the Brave Bird then you can just utilize offensive pressure and hazards to prevent them from spinning. This Skarmory also outspeeds Adamant Breloom, so you can just Taunt it so it can't Spore, and then start to lay down hazards yourself, or you can just go straight for the Brave Bird and kill it off. Basically, this Skarmory fixes all the problems you listed.

Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)

Custap Berry Skarmory

Skarmory (F) @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Brave Bird

 

[joshe]

The lack of a spinblocker isn't too big of a deal tbh on a bulky offense team like this. the common spinners right now are Starmie, Forretress, and Tentacruel. They're not too hard to take care of with your team and if they really want to spin chances are they're taking alot of damage or allowing you to set up Lucario or Kingdra and do a ton of damage regardless. Spinning is pretty hard to do in this current metagame and most teams aren't really prepared to give them enough momentum to be able to spin anyway. Ferrothorn and Lando-t get alot of opportunities to set up themselves as well so even if they do manage to spin away hazards chances are they'll be able to set them up again. You're just going to have to play differently if they DO have a spinner, i.e. kill their spinner before you set hazards or whatever then set up hazards before lategame when mence cleans up.

As far as early-midgame offensive presence, you will have to play differently if you run lando-t and ferrot. Your team would be designed around setting up hazards and setting up and smashing midgame with Kingdra or Lucario -- Kingdra if certain special walls are gone i.e. Blissey, celebi, rotom-w, and Lucario if landorus-t and Gliscor are gone. You would then clean up and sweep lategame with Salamence in a perfect situation. Ideally, hazards should put most pokemon that "check" your 3 sweepers into KO range which means you can use Lucario and Kingdra early on without fear of running out of power lategame. Starmie would also help to keep them healthy as well without hazards on your side of the team.

and for Breloom, that's really just how breloom works. you're just going to have to play correctly by "sacking" the least value member on your team to spore then playing appropriately with your other sweepers. you aren't that weak to him inherently, he's just annoying to face.

so yeah tl;dr:

- spinblocker isn't really worth it
- play differently by using mence as a lategame sweeper / spot revenge killer and kingdra/lucario as midgame wallbreakers appropriately
- breloom is poop :(

:P