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Pokémon Klefki

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Klefki @
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Swagger
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam


Would you guys recommend Leftovers or a Red Card for this Klefki set?
 
LoveSnoopy said:
Klefki @
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Swagger
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam


Would you guys recommend Leftovers or a Red Card for this Klefki set?
Click to expand...

Why are you using Swagger without Foul Play? That's basically 80% of the reason to put Swagger on Klefki. Dazzling Gleam isn't doing more than Foul Play to anything other than maybe Scrafty after a Swagger. Also you kinda need Leftovers.
 
LoveSnoopy said:
Klefki @
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Swagger
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam


Would you guys recommend Leftovers or a Red Card for this Klefki set?
Click to expand...
Leftovers, since you want to heal off the Substitute damage overtime. In fact, why Red Card at all? Red Card forces your opponent out after they get a fresh hit on you. You intend to shuffle around the opponent's team and paralyze more Pokemon, but what's stopping them from switching right back to the paralyzed mon? This is also bad against opponents you cannot paralyze, as Red Card can snap the attacker out of confusion by forcing them out without the actual need to switch, so you're actually giving momentum to the opponent. Not to mention Red Card won't work behind Subs if I'm not mistaken.

Are there any specific targets Dazzling Gleam hits? Why not use Foul Play (which synergizes with Swagger) or Play Rough (which hits most Fairy-weak targets harder, but does not permit 0 Attack IVs and a negative nature)?
 
Leftovers it is, then. Can you guys provide a few scenarios on when Foul Play would be necessary? The main reason I chose Dazzling Gleam is for dragons and stuff, lol. Still really new to competitive play!
 
Well, for one, Foul play will probably hit the Dragons harder.

You also get to smack around Pokemon like Scizor, Aegislash, and other boosting threats, and also threats you have boosted with Swagger. Fairy-Type STAB should only ever be used on Klefki if you have the move slot to spare (i.e. Thunder Wave/Spikes/Foul Play/Blank) as Foul Play is Klefki's best means of dealing damage to, well, everything.

EDIT: Oh, I've been Greninja'd. Oops.
 
Holy fuck Torment Klefki is so good. Even with the lower shitty defensive stats, I actually like this better than Tormentran.
A well-timed Torment WILL give you enough time to set up properly or dish out some Toxics or Thunder Waves. Torment is also pretty useful as a last-resort when you need to safely switch something in, giving you potential momentum over something that'd usually threaten your incoming switch in.
 
Punchshroom said:
This gentleman gets it. The latter (unbolded) part though, unfortunate for you :(

The first set you mentioned is the standard Dual Screen Klefki; the latter though...I dunno, don't you think Klefki has better things to be doing than bulky boosting? Klefki shouldn't really be aiming to attack, it just attacks to do some damage whenever convenient, but Draining Kiss is a tad weak for a move for Klefki to simply throw out. Foul Play and Play Rough are the primary options because they can allow Klefki to do some damage in a pinch (Dazzling Gleam imo is inferior to Play Rough against targets like Tyranitar and Goodra); Draining Kiss may help Klefki to recover a bit but is too weak to matter much. Bulky boosting Draining Kiss sets would be better left off to stuff like Sylveon anyway.
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I use the exact same set on my Syvleon, and it works Perfectly, I didn't try it on Klefki but since it worked on my slow Sylveon, I thought it work on this guy, well, after +2 SpA Klefki can definitely do something, the Klefki(s) I ran are: Swagkey (deleted it), Dual Screens (Replaced Swagkey), and weather starter (Rain dance, haven't fond a HA Politaod yet) the latter two are awesome and do the job right, the Swagkey seriously depends on luck which I lack. While Play Rough is certainly better than Dazzling Gleam (Except in Doubles IMO), Draining Kiss can certainly be useful as it's Klefki's only -while unreliable- HP restoring move, So I'd really use it and after 2 calm minds:

+2 0 SpA Klefki Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 128-152 (31.68 - 37.62%) -- 89.6% chance to 3HKO

With the recovery of Draining + Leftovers, Klefki can recover .. a lot, while 3HKO-ing Tyranitar, you are gaining a lot of HP. And for the +2 SpA, well it's really easy to set up with Prankster, if physical just use Reflect and Calm Mind, if special then directly calm mind. And again you'd be recovering 75% health of Tyranitar (Base 100 HP with full investment) combine that with Leftovers pls.

While on the other hand:

0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (41.58 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Does more damage but does not really give you any HP back.

However Play Rough is more viable on sets that don't have calm mind
 
Punchshroom said:
Unfortunately, Sableye needs a total of 204 Speed EVs to outspeed Klefki, which is nowhere near the investment to be worth the loss in bulk. Prankster Whimsicott, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-I, Liepard and Murkrow are fast enough, but only Thundurus-I has a way of threatening Klefki behind a Sub. Electric- and Ground-types are your best practical bets for SwagKey, especially Taunt Gliscor or maybe Magnezone.
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Why Taunt Gliscor? Gliscor welcomes the extra boost coming from Swagger, in fact, XD.
 
Unfortunately your Tyranitar calculation is a little off because the most likely set that Tyranitar will be running will be Assault Vest one, meaning Klefki can only barely manage a 5HKO at +2:

+2 0 SpA (custom) (Move 1) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 86-104 (21.28 - 25.74%) -- possible 5HKO

Calm Mind Klefki may be viable in its own right, but Tyranitar is not a Pokemon you want to use as fodder for setting up, which is unfortunate, as Klefki has a reasonably good match-up against most Tyranitar variants thanks to his Fairy-Type STAB.

That said, where is Klefki going to find the time to go +2? Gliscor, Landorus, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and the like all force Klefki out with Earthquake (and 3 of those guys have STAB on it). In addition to that, Draining Kiss is but a 50 base power move, and Klefki only has an 80 base Special Attack Stat; all of his EVs want to go into HP and Defenses and you want to find Pokemon that are going to sit there while you Calm Mind up a few times. I feel as though more calculations are needed before Calm Mind Klefki should be seen as anything other than an inferior support set.

I did run across something interesting the other day:

Klefki @ Air Balloon
252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Recycle
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave

Air Balloon mitigates one of Klefki's only two weaknesses: Ground-Type attacks. By recycling Balloons Klefki can Spike in the face of Pokemon that would normally threaten it, such as Gliscor and Landorus-Therian, specifically Gliscor, who do not always carry a secondary attack in addition to their STAB Earthquake, forcing them out. While Landorus-Therian users may catch on quickly and keep spamming Hidden Power [Ice] or Stone Edge in an effort to force you to switch, you should, in most scenarios, be able to drop 2 layers of Spikes before being forced out. Like most Klefki sets, this one really appreciates Wish passing support from Pokemon like Vaporeon, or hazard removal from Pokemon like Lati@s, who are fast and force many Pokemon out.
 
Edgar81539 said:
Why Taunt Gliscor? Gliscor welcomes the extra boost coming from Swagger, in fact, XD.
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Taunt prevents Klefkis from setting up anymore Substitutes, and also prevents more Swaggers to boost its Foul Plays. Even though Gliscor has great passive recovery and high Defense, even it won't get far against Klefki's +4 / +6 Foul Play if it keeps hitting itself in the face.
 
Punchshroom said:
Taunt prevents Klefkis from setting up anymore Substitutes, and also prevents more Swaggers to boost its Foul Plays. Even though Gliscor has great passive recovery and high Defense, even it won't get far against Klefki's +4 / +6 Foul Play if it keeps hitting itself in the face.
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You're right with that, sometimes I understimate the power of hax. More 4MSS!!! Anyway, I still can use my Mega Absol against Klefki.
 
Kleki ability makes him a great subCM and annoyer with the paralysis spread.

I tried a set like this:

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Draining Kiss / Dazzling Gleam

It works wonder but bulky ground can stop it cold, particularly hippowdon.
 
In doubles this thing is a top tier threat. After getting destroyed by one i literally started running MegaBannette to counter it and it does perfectly

Without a Taunt or another prankster user this thing will completely cripple and destroy your team in doubles.
 
LittleTLK said:
I'd take Fairy Lock over spikes in this case.
It can work as a decent trapper against certain pokemon, but a misprediction can have you "trapping" a switched in troublesome pokemon.
However, if you do manage to trap something (especially a special attacker) and manage to get a few calm minds off, you can have a pretty decent threat.
I'd probably keep Draining Kiss for the constant recovery, and you could optionally replace twave with iron defense for even greater levels of sheer bulk.

The downside with this moveset is as mentioned the prediction factor with trapping with a move rather than a passive ability, and the lack of good coverage with only a single attacking move once whatever you've trapped has been KO'd.
Also, like all pokemon that depend on boosts to take hits, the lucky crit can end the day.
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I agree completely, those are all good ideas! Klefki is so good, and his typing is a blessing :) Although you can always use dazzling gleam of you don't find it too much of a gimmick!
 
This is a pretty solid counter against Klefki and team with more than one supportive character / heavily setup dependant sweepers.


It won't see much use in higher tiers, but depending where Klefki ends up this could be considered a top 10 counter.
Thought it should be mentioned.

Lopunny @252HP ; 252 Def
Ability: Klutz
Item: Assault Vest
Moves:
- Switcheroo
- Heal Bell
- Thunderwave / Circle Throw / Fling / Substitude / Agility / +Baton Pass / Encore /
(Copycat // Magic Coat ) / Healing Wish
-
 
Pidgey Airlines said:
This is a pretty solid counter against Klefki and team with more than one supportive character / heavily setup dependant sweepers.


It won't see much use in higher tiers, but depending where Klefki ends up this could be considered a top 10 counter.
Thought it should be mentioned.

Lopunny @252HP ; 252 Def
Ability: Klutz
Item: Assault Vest
Moves:
- Switcheroo
- Heal Bell
- Thunderwave / Circle Throw / Fling / Substitude / Agility / +Baton Pass / Encore /
(Copycat // Magic Coat ) / Healing Wish
-
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, while it can work against the dual screen variants and spikers, it doesn't beat the dreaded swagkey, who just has to throw up a sub for switcheroo to fail, then paralyse with thunderwave and swagger as normal.
 
silenced said:
Unfortunately, while it can work against the dual screen variants and spikers, it doesn't beat the dreaded swagkey, who just has to throw up a sub for switcheroo to fail, then paralyse with thunderwave and swagger as normal.
Click to expand...
It could catch it on a switch, though you are correct that it doesn't stop one already on the field.
 
Whimsicott carrying Taunt is the best counter to all variants of Klefki, while Ground-type physical threats carrying Lum Berry (Garchomp, for instance) easily force Swagger variants out.
 
silenced said:
Unfortunately, while it can work against the dual screen variants and spikers, it doesn't beat the dreaded swagkey, who just has to throw up a sub for switcheroo to fail, then paralyse with thunderwave and swagger as normal.
Click to expand...

Though it's hard to pull off safely, infiltrator chandalure can hit swagkey behind his sub. He has to make it past the first twave/swagger, though. A lum berry would fix that, however.
 
silenced said:
Unfortunately, while it can work against the dual screen variants and spikers, it doesn't beat the dreaded swagkey, who just has to throw up a sub for switcheroo to fail, then paralyse with thunderwave and swagger as normal.
Click to expand...

I haven't faced the sub variant very often so far.
At least from my experience other variants are much more common.
Not to mention that even if it can't take out Klefki most people have at least one or two more pokemon which really suffer when they're only allowed to use damaging moves.

However, yea.
Since we were talking about it as a direct Klefki counter, sub Klefki can't be taken out by this unless you sacrife a move slot to add Jump Kick, which should be able to break his sub. (Haven't doen the math if /how much atk investment that would require though)
 
Pidgey Airlines said:
I haven't faced the sub variant very often so far.
At least from my experience other variants are much more common.
Not to mention that even if it can't take out Klefki most people have at least one or two more pokemon which really suffer when they're only allowed to use damaging moves.

However, yea.
Since we were talking about it as a direct Klefki counter, sub Klefki can't be taken out by this unless you sacrife a move slot to add Jump Kick, which should be able to break his sub. (Haven't doen the math if /how much atk investment that would require though)
Click to expand...

Remember jump kick is only neutral on klefki. Fire punch on lopunny would deal more damage to klefki.
 
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