Kyurem (OU) [QC 0/2]

[A Welcome Guest]

[OVERVIEW]

Kyurem holds a unique niche in the BW OU metagame as a balance breaker thanks to its sky-high 130 Special Attack, which is on par with threats such as Latios. It’s typing lets it act as Dragon-type that is neutral to Ice, meaning it is less vulnerable to Ice-types such as Mamoswine revenge killing it. However, Kyurem’s speed is middling in a metagame with multiple base 100s, Keldeo, and Latios. In some match ups, Kyurem is heavily reliant on Substitute to make any progress. Kyurem also has a weakness to Stealth Rock, one of the most ubiquitous moves in the tier. It’s typing is also hazardous, giving it a weakness to many common Pokemon, such as Tyranitar, Latios, Jirachi, and Keldeo. It’s movepool, while still solid, lacks many coverage options when compared to the other Dragon-types in OU. Overall, Kyurem generally faces stiff competition as a Dragon-type, notably Kyurem-Black, and generally doesn’t have much merit over them, but is still able to pose a threat under proper conditions.


[SET]
Name: SubRoost
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Roost
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe


Moves
========
Ice Beam is the move Kyurem will mainly be using and hits hard against Pokémon such as Latios, and can also fish for freezes behind Substitute. Earth Power provides near-perfect coverage with Ice Beam, hitting most Steel-types and Fire-types for at least neutral damage. Substitute allows Kyurem to get more attacks off and pairs well with Pressure. Roost allows Kyurem to heal off hazards and Substitute damage and makes it easier for Kyurem to check Pokémon such as Rotom-Wash.

Set Details
========
56 HP allows Kyurem to PP stall fixed damage moves with Substitute, such as Blissey and Chansey's Seismic Toss, and Jellicent's Night Shade. It also allows the Substitute to survive standard Rotom-W's Hydro Pump. Maximum Speed investment with a Timid nature allows Kyurem to outspeed Pokemon it can threaten feasibly such as Landorus-Therian, Rotom-Wash, and Excadrill. The rest is dumped into Special Attack to increase Kyurem’s damage output.

Usage Tips
========
Use Kyurem to break holes mid-game and Substitute on a passive Pokémon that cannot break your Substitute in one hit. Try to avoid directly switching Kyurem into bulky waters, because if it gets burnt by Scald, it will be forced to Roost more. Due to its Stealth Rock weakness, it is recommended to get Kyurem in while hazards aren't up. Take advantage of Pressure, as several Pokémon rely on low PP moves to break Kyurem's Substitute, such as Draco Meteor, Gyro Ball, and Focus Blast.


Team Options
========
Kyurem does not appreciate the chip damage it takes from sand due to the weather chipping it even more in conjuction with Substitute, so a partner to reset weather such as Politoed, or Abomasnow benefits Kyurem heavily. For rain teams, Tentacruel is an amazing partner because it removes Stealth Rock from the field and can set Toxic Spikes which pair well with Kyurem. Kyurem appreciates VoltTurn support, as it struggles to get onto the field, so partners such as Rotom-W can help get Kyurem in.


Other Options
=============
A Choice Specs set can be a very threatening wallbreaker with Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, Focus Blast and Earth Power, but it is overall too susceptible to chip from entry hazards, sand, and any hit it will take upon switching in. Blizzard Kyurem with Abomasnow is an enticing option on paper, but teambuilding with two ice types is rarely profitable due to their stacked weaknesses. Life Orb is a possible option over Leftovers for more breaking power, but the longevity provided by Leftovers is essential for offsetting sand chip, and healing damage taken from Substitute. However, dedicated offensive and choiced sets face stiff competition from Kyurem-B with its wider offensive movepool, Teravolt, and greater degree of unpredictability.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-type Pokemon**: Kyurem's main STAB, Ice Beam is resisted by the Steel typing. Some steel types are even neutral, or even immune to Kyurem's coverage move in Earth Power, such as Scizor and Bronzong.

**Hazards**: Due to being an Ice-type, Kyurem is weak to Stealth Rock. It is also weak to Spikes and Toxic Spikes due to lack of Levitate, or Flying-type.

**Pokémon that can break Substitute**: Pokémon such as Tyranitar can break Kyurem's Substitute while not taking too much damage in return from Kyurem's moves.

**Revenge Killers**: Pokémon such as Latios, Scizor, and Keldeo can deal with Kyurem due to their higher speed and strong STAB to hit it super effectively. Garchomp is also a notable revenge killer due to its ability to Dual Chop, hitting Kyurem even when it is behind a Substitute.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[kalifguest22, 510612 ]]
- Quality checked by: [[peng, 33864], [Ophion, 433215]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[Caetano93]

I'm ok with letting you keep the analysis, but next time make sure to reserve the Pokemon in the Reservation Index.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

My bad about that, I should've asked.

 

[Caetano93]

kalifguest22 do you have any idea of when you will work on this?

 

[A Welcome Guest]

kalifguest22 do you have any idea of when you will work on this?

Oh mb, I'll try to work on it in the next few weeks.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

Ready for QC!

 

[peng]

ctrl+f "kyurem-b" = 0 results :(

i think it would be worth mentioning somewhere that kyurem faces stiffest competition from kyurem-b (has better offensive sub and choiced sets) and as such its place is really abusing the few traits that it has over its other forme i.e. pressure. Best places to sneak this in would be at the end of the intro where you mention competition from other dragons (just insert "most notably, Kyurem-B") or in other options ("However, dedicated offensive and choiced sets face stiff competition from Kyurem-B with its wider offensive movepool, Teravolt, and greater degree of unpredictability")

opening sentence mentions kyurem as a wallbreaker but then the only listed set is a subroost pressure set - this is a bit confusing, maybe choose a different word here

could mention somewhere that sub+pressure is particularly strong as several mons rely on 8PP moves to hit kyurem - Draco Meteor, Gyro Ball, Focus Blast are easily stallable.

saying hail is unviable in bw ou is one step too strong, as some players have shown it can be used - that said variants of hail with kyurem are not great. I would adapt this part to something like "Blizzard Kyurem with Abomasnow is an enticing option on paper, but teambuilding with two ice types is rarely profitable due to their stacked weaknesses". i.e. you can use hail but modern hail is mostly magic guard spam, not offensive ice mons clicking blizzard because you probs get counterswept by one of scizor, terrakion, keldeo, volcarona

checks and counters - special mention to garchomp under revenge killers as its the only viable mon that can actually rkill a kyurem behind sub with dual chop

this looks very solid but could just do with 10% more detail

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

Hey, major apologies for not getting QC on this sooner. I understand it's been a while.

Kyurem holds a unique niche in the BW OU metagame as a balance breaker thanks to its sky-high 130 Special Attack, which is on par with threats such as Latios.

Mention its coverage of Ice + Ground being very good and hitting a majority of the metagame at least neutrally.

It’s typing lets it act as Dragon-type that is neutral to Ice, meaning it is less vulnerable to Ice-types such as Mamoswine revenge killing it.

I prefer you mention its very good bulk and resists that lets it get Subs up vs stuff like Tentacruel, Politoed lacking Encore, and Ferrothorn lacking Gyro Ball and proceed to threaten them immediately, which are further complimented by Pressure.

However, Kyurem’s speed is middling in a metagame with multiple base 100s, Keldeo, and Latios

Middling is too harsh as it outspeeds threats like DNite, offensive Breloom, offensive Rotom, Heatran, and Excadrill. Specify its Speed is relatively good because it outspeeds these things as a positive before diving into what I quoted from you above. Then you could say how a majority of the faster Pokemon lurking around force it out then state Keldeo, Latios, etc..

In some match ups, Kyurem is heavily reliant on Substitute to make any progress.

Can you elaborate why?

Kyurem also has a weakness to Stealth Rock, one of the most ubiquitous moves in the tier. It’s typing is also hazardous, giving it a weakness to many common Pokemon, such as Tyranitar, Latios, Jirachi, and Keldeo.

You don't need to say rocks are very ubiqitous that's pretty obvious stuff across every Smogon format with rocks. Say how it's vulnerable to entry hazards, especially Stealth Rock. Retool the typing point to be more of like "while its typing provides good resists, it also makes it weak to..." to be more consistent with the earlier parts I want you to retool. Also add how it can't heal in sand, which makes breaking vs it more difficult since it actually loses the HP and doesn't recover it back, making it need to Roost instead of attacking.

It’s movepool, while still solid, lacks many coverage options when compared to the other Dragon-types in OU.

I mean the coverage in 2 moves here is already very good. Latios isn't a coverage wizard either and it's the best mon in the tier. Retool it to say that bulky Pokemon that can heavily damage Kyurem and aren't hit super effectively by its coverage (Psychic + Fight Reuniclus, Volcarona, Ttar, etc) can threaten it in spite of Kyurem needing to be a balance breaker, making it not as effective at the job as it may seem.

Overall, Kyurem generally faces stiff competition as a Dragon-type, notably Kyurem-Black, and generally doesn’t have much merit over them, but is still able to pose a threat under proper conditions.

Say Dragon-type wallbreaker I think. Saying Dragon-type is too broad imo. Also add Garchomp, Latios, and Dragonite (sub dd can do some of this stuff pretty well too) to this list.

Ice Beam is the move Kyurem will mainly be using and hits hard against Pokémon such as Latios, and can also fish for freezes behind Substitute.

Retool this entire Ice Beam point to remove "it hits x super effectively" and instead say how Ice Beam has good neutral coverage and list some of the mons u hit neutrally and keep the stuff about fishing freeze but say to only make it come to that if you're desperate.

Earth Power provides near-perfect coverage with Ice Beam, hitting most Steel-types and Fire-types for at least neutral damage.

What Steels and Fires?

Substitute allows Kyurem to get more attacks off and pairs well with Pressure.

Say how it protects Kyurem from status users since Kyurem beats a good portion of them, namely most Scald and Will-o-Wisp users (list the mons that use these moves).

Roost allows Kyurem to heal off hazards and Substitute damage and makes it easier for Kyurem to check Pokémon such as Rotom-Wash.

Add defensive Heatran and make the point of bulky Water- and Grass-types are able to be checked very well thanks to Roost giving Kyurem sustain.

Use Kyurem to break holes mid-game and Substitute on a passive Pokémon that cannot break your Substitute in one hit.

Like?

Kyurem does not appreciate the chip damage it takes from sand due to the weather chipping it even more in conjuction with Substitute, so a partner to reset weather such as Politoed, or Abomasnow benefits Kyurem heavily.

For one, say how it doesn't appreciate being unable to heal off Substitute damage instead of "chipping it even more" since that implies it's net losing HP each turn no matter what, which isn't true due to Lefties. Also, just say Politoed since Aboma sucks and isn't used pretty much ever. Expand on why Politoed is a good partner outside of just weather resetting and how Kyurem works well with it.

For rain teams, Tentacruel is an amazing partner because it removes Stealth Rock from the field and can set Toxic Spikes which pair well with Kyurem.

Say how Tenta resists Fighting, Fire, and acts a more study Water resist and checks stuff like Keldeo and Volcarona that check Kyurem. Also mention how Kyurem offensively pressures or sets up on Pokemon that check Tentacruel like Breloom, Gastrodon, Rotom-W, Politoed lacking Encore, and Celebi while also saying how they both can work together to wear down Tyranitar to win the weather war. Change Stealth rock to just entry hazards. Also, Why do TSpikes pair well with Kyurem?

I'm going to break this part up and say you absolutely need more team options than this for rain. This selection of team options is super bare and doesn't really give the reader much direction save "Kyurem likes Tenta rain". Add stuff like Ferrothorn, Scarf Latios, and Keldeo and give them each a reasonably lengthy explanation in a similar way to what I you'll have with Tenta after you add the stuff I told you to. You could also add spin Excadrill but it can be a bit more brief if you prefer.

Kyurem appreciates VoltTurn support, as it struggles to get onto the field, so partners such as Rotom-W can help get Kyurem in.

I mean, it doesn't REALLY struggle to get on the field. Reword to say it likes pivot support so it gets in on the Pokemon it desires to set up Substitute on and do its job. Add Landorus-T to this list and make it the first mon mentioned then expand on it the same way as the rain mons.

A Choice Specs set can be a very threatening wallbreaker with Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, Focus Blast and Earth Power, but it is overall too susceptible to chip from entry hazards, sand, and any hit it will take upon switching in.

Also cause Latios, Keldeo, and Kyurem-B outclass it the Choice-item wallbreaker role on the teams this Kyurem would usually find itself on due to their better Speed, STABS, typing, etc.

Life Orb is a possible option over Leftovers for more breaking power, but the longevity provided by Leftovers is essential for offsetting sand chip, and healing damage taken from Substitute.

I'd prefer you say Never Melt Ice / Metronome since they hold more of an understandable and notable niche than LO at this point.

However, dedicated offensive and choiced sets face stiff competition from Kyurem-B with its wider offensive movepool, Teravolt, and greater degree of unpredictability.

This seems really tacked on and disorganized seeing as you mentioned Choice sets much earlier on in the section. I added Kyurem-B to the top of that area anyway so this can just be thrown in there.

**Steel-type Pokemon**: Kyurem's main STAB, Ice Beam is resisted by the Steel typing. Some steel types are even neutral, or even immune to Kyurem's coverage move in Earth Power, such as Scizor and Bronzong.

What do you mean main STAB? It's the only STAB is uses. Make a bigger point of how Kyurem can usually scare them out with Earth Power or set up on them in the case of Ferrothorn but there are some Steel-types like Scizor or Jirachi that can take its hits and threaten it. Remove Bronzong, it's bad and not used.

**Hazards**: Due to being an Ice-type, Kyurem is weak to Stealth Rock. It is also weak to Spikes and Toxic Spikes due to lack of Levitate, or Flying-type.

First of all, change this to entry hazards. Also, remove "due to being an Ice-type" and "due to lack of Levitate or Flying-type", it's wasteful filler. Just say that Kyurem is very vulnerable to entry hazards due to its rocks weakness and vulnerability to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Then say how it also makes subbing up much more difficult. At least mention that Kyurem can scare out or set up on most hazard setters, then list the setters it does that to.

**Pokémon that can break Substitute**: Pokémon such as Tyranitar can break Kyurem's Substitute while not taking too much damage in return from Kyurem's moves.

This category is very pooly named. Cause by this title, anyone can assume "oh x broke the sub, it's an answer now". Change it to like "Stronger Pokemon Not Forced Out by Kyurem" then list Tyranitar, Focus Blast Reuniclus, Scizor, Volcarona, etc.

**Revenge Killers**: Pokémon such as Latios, Scizor, and Keldeo can deal with Kyurem due to their higher speed and strong STAB to hit it super effectively. Garchomp is also a notable revenge killer due to its ability to Dual Chop, hitting Kyurem even when it is behind a Substitute.

Add Terrakion and Alakazam to this list but also make it a point a majority of these Pokemon cannot switch into Kyurem safely.


I'd also like for you to add a statuses section to the checks and counters area since every status ruins Kyurem a lot. Please join the Old Gens C and C Discord if you haven't already and let me know when you implement these so I can check it again to make sure it's ready to go.

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

kalifguest22 can you please give an update when you're going to implement this or what?

 

[A Welcome Guest]

kalifguest22 can you please give an update when you're going to implement this or what?

I decided I might take a break/quit showdown so i dont wanna continue this analysis. Is there a way someone else could do it?

 

[Deleted User [433215]]

I decided I might take a break/quit showdown so i dont wanna continue this analysis. Is there a way someone else could do it?

Yes, someone can take it. Thank you for letting me know. Hopefully things work out for you. I'll be locking and reassigning this with the option for the writer to either keep going with what's here or start from scratch. Same vetting as normal though.