ORAS PU Lapras Balance

HotFuzzBall

fuzzy-chan \(ㆁヮㆁ✿)
is an Artist
This is like one of my more successful PU teams I've created so far. The team is centered around
Specs Lapras (Lapras is also one of my favorite mons out there c:) which hits really hard, but requires a bit of support to pull off. So without further ado...

At a Glance



Clefairy was originally in the place of Grumpig to be my Fighting
resist and also last minute wincon with Calm Mind. But after using it a
few times, I found out that I was really weak to Knock Off
so I opted for Grumpig instead.


Roselia was in the place of Vullaby for a short while as
my go to Grass resist, then I realized I didn't have
any way to remove hazards so I substituted
for Vullaby instead.

Overview


Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Surf

Basically one of my go to wallbreakers and star of the team.
Lapras helps break down physical walls that Stoutland has trouble with such
as Gourgeist, Tangela, and Relicanth as it has the bulk to tank a few
hits before OHKO or 2HKO them back. Lapras is also my
go to Water immunity (but I have to be mindful of Simipour's Superpower
and Floatzel Focus Blast) and Ice resist.


Grumpig @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Grumpig is my Fighting resist and Fire and Ice type check.
With Taunt I'm able to shutdown mons such as Regice.
Grumpig also functions as my Knock Off absorber which is why I
opted for Colbur Berry instead. I chose the offensive variant of Grumpig mainly
because it is harder for mons like Mr. Mime and Stoutland switch in safely
without taking a lot of damage and with speed investment,
I'd be able to Taunt or Thunder Wave mons like Mr. Mime and Lapras.


Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Usually my main lead most of the time. Golem functions as my Normal
and Electric resist and also my Stealth Rocker. I opted for
SpDef Golem so it can tank Grass or Water coverage from Electric types
like Zebstrika and Raichu. I went for Sucker Punch over Toxic so
I have priority to deal with low health sweepers like Gorebyss and Crustle.


Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod / Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I realized since my team is relatively slow, I chose Zebstrika as my revenge
killer due to it's amazing Speed tier and ability to switch into either
Electric/Grass type moves (I have tried both Lightning Rod and Sap Sipper
but, I'm not really sure which one is more optimal for my team).
Zebstrika functions as my late game cleaner as well. Volt Switch
also allows me to gain momentum on common switch ins such
as Grumpig, Clefairy and Probopass. I also chose HP Grass over Ice
since this is one of my ways to deal with Golem.


Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Stoutland was chosen mainly because I did not have a reliable way to
deal with Specially Defensive mons (Regice, Clefairy, Roselia).
This is a standard wallbreaker Stoutland set. I opted for Pursuit over
Crunch since a lot of mons would want to switch out to their defensive
tanks like Mawile so I'd be able to deal damage to them on their way out.
Facade so I can switch into Toxics and Will-o-Wisps without
worrying too much (but I still would rather not have status conditions
on Stoutland).


Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Lastly, Vullaby acts as the team's way of hazard removal
(since my team lacks reliable recovery so I want Stealth Rocks removed asap)
and acts as my Psychic immunity and Grass check. Vullaby is also
my soft check to Stoutland and Arbok due to Foul Play while U-Turn allows
me to pivot into other mons in case of a bad matchup.

Counters


Stoutland

Stoutland has proved to be a problem with this team. It can predict a Golem
switch in fairly easy since Golem is my only reliable switch in to
this monster. Intimidate variants are also a problem since they can switch
into my own Stoutland and live a Return or Superpower at full
health, then it comes down to a speed tie usually (unless they run Jolly Stoutland)
and Stoutland falls to a Superpower no matter what. How I dealt with this
mon was sacking a mon (usually Grumpig or Golem) and
then have Vullaby deal with it.


Offensive Normal Types
Kinda like Stoutland, these mons terrorize my team once Golem or Vullaby
falls. However, I don't see these mons as often as I do see Stoutland
so I don't really focus on them as much, but when they do appear;
they are a nuisance to deal with.


Relicanth
Specifically the Rock Polish set, Relicanth can easily set up on Vullaby,
Stoutland and Golem. Relicanth outspeeds my entire team and the only reliable
way I can deal with Relicanth is with Grumpig as it can live 1 Head Smash
or Waterfall, Psychic fails too OHKO and Chople Berry variants live Focus Blast
and is able to knock out Grumpig with another attack. I basically
have to bank on Head Smash missing or a lucky crit on Psychic.


Golem
Golem is so annoying to deal with. With 2 Golem leads,
it always comes down to a speed tie (usually) since it's always
Rocks -> EQ -> Sucker Punch and whoever wins the tie wins.
Most of the Golems I've encountered are the Offensive variant so Sucker Punch
is a common move they will have. Once my own Golem is down,
I'm usually forced to either weaken Lapras severely or sack Zebstrika
to break Sturdy, and then take Golem out on the following turn.

Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Surf

Grumpig @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Thanks for reading my wall of text. All criticism and comments are appreciated~
 
Last edited:

TJ

run dat back turbo
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Hey, nice team! I have some suggestions for you [:

Vibrava --> Vullaby
vibrava.gif
Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Vibrava, fits over Vullaby on your team since it can beat Golem, and beat rock polish Relicanth. Vibrava, is a good pivot, and defogger that can also get access to defog and U-turn.

Gourgeist --> Grumpig
gourgeist-super.gif

Gourgeist-Super @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp

Gourgeist is nice here, because it can beat Swords Dance Ursaring, and any variant of Bouffalant. Gourgeist, also gives your team a spin-blocker as well as a bulky grass that can tank hits and just heal off damage.

Monferno --> Stoutland
monferno.png
Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Monferno, is nice offensive glue. It gives your team a Regice Check if you do end up getting rid of Grumpig. All out Attacking (AoA) Monferno, fits over Stoutland because it can U-turn on checks coming in and give the team momentum. And it general, I feel like Monferno gives your team a lot more flexibility.

Overall, nice team I do hope you consider these Suggestions as well as others. Keep in mind, Your team is really weak to Articuno, so potentially Metang > Golem can work. Good luck!
 
Hello! Cool team.

Some things I notice straight off the bat (in addition to what you mentioned):
- Rotom-Frost is a big problem.
- Jolly Monferno can be a problem
- You struggle to break through defensive Gourgeist-Super.
- Nasty plot Mr. Mime destroys your team (the scarf variant looks problematic as well).
- Pawniard can be problematic versus your team when it is paired with the appropriate support.

With this in mind, I would suggest the following changes to partially remedy most of your problems:

1 Pokemon changes

Take Stoutland out and replace it with Monferno. (1.1)
Take Zebstrika out and replace it with Raichu. (1.2)
->

->


1.1 Monferno

Switching out Stoutland for Monferno accomplishes the following:
- Gives your team solid priority with iron fist boosted mach punch which can help you revenge problem Pokemon or weaken them.
- Mach punch accomplishes: Helps weaken or revenge normal type Pokemon, heavily weakens Rotom-Frost, weakens Relicanth, kills Pawniard, and weakens Golem.
- Helps break Gourgeist-Super.
- Threatens Golem
- Threatens Normal types
- Provides a secondary soft-check to opposing Monferno and Cacturne.
- Gives you a solid win condition - which you lacked up until now.

Suggested set:
Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

This set is the standard adamant Monferno set. This in combination with Lapras' ability to remove problematic Pokemon for Monferno to break through (water types), provides you a win condition. Monferno helps relieve your weakness to normal type Pokemon by giving you stab close combat / mach punch to hit them hard. It also helps relieve the weakness to Rotom-Frost by letting you revenge kill it. It can revenge Relicanth with some prior damage as well while giving you an extra answer to Cacturne and a solid answer to Pawniard.

1.2 Raichu

While there is nothing particularly wrong with Zebstrika, I suggest Raichu (specifically scarf Raichu) for the following reasons:
- It can outspeed +2 Relicanth (since they are only ev'd to outspeed up to Zebstrika). Meaning if you can break its sturdy, Raichu can revenge it.
- It gives you a fast Pokemon that is able to mostly revenge kill / weaken the threats it needs to (Floatzel, Drifblim, Rotom-F, etc)
- It has better special bulk than Zebstrika, helping out therefore versus Rotom better than what Zebstrika does.
- It helps you handle rock Polish Golem after they boost their speed.
- It helps with the Mr. Mime problem.
- It's cute.

Suggested set:
Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

Thunderbolt is obligatory stab, hidden power-Ice hits annoying grass Pokemon such as: Simisage, Cacturne, Gourgeist. Focus blast hits Rotom-Frost and Golem hard. Volt switch lets you gain momentum. This set is problematic as choice scarf limits your ability to switch up moves meaning you have to play a bit more careful versus teams that have Golem's. The reason why I suggested this set, I explained above. Zebstrika can still work in this slot, but it will not help your matchup versus Relicanth and for that reason: I suggest Raichu if you want to solve your Relicanth problem, at the expense of making you a bit weaker to Golem.

2 Set Changes

I suggest changing the sets for the following Pokemon:

Golem
(2.1)
Grumpig
(2.2)

2.1 Golem

I have no idea why the +Spdef Golem set is being recommended lately or why it has become a standard set, but it really is not that great. Most hidden power coverage moves are doing the same amount of damage (2hko) and hidden power-ice is still a 3hko, regardless of whether or not you are a careful nature. The bulky attacker Golem set accomplishes the same thing therefore, but hits a whole lot harder - which is very useful for your team and most teams in PU as it helps break down opposing careful-natured Golems, while giving you a very strong sucker punch to weaken problematic Pokemon. With this in mind, I strongly recommend running the following set:

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 232 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock

Stone edge is slashed for Rock blast to let you better handle sash Leavanny and substitute Rotom-Frost as well as being more accurate overall. 16 Attack evs and an adamant nature reach a jumpoint allowing you to reach 308 attack. The 12 speed evs let you outspeed slower, bulkier golems - like your current set. The rest of the evs are then placed into spdef to accomplish the same thing that +spdef Golem accomplishes. To prove my point that bulky golem is better, take a look at these calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Golem: 239-286 (65.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 232 SpD Golem: 265-312 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Golem: 120-143 (33 - 39.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Zebstrika Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 232 SpD Golem: 133-156 (36.6 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

TLDR; Run bulky attacking Golem, not spdef.

2.2 Grumpig

Fast grumpig is really iffy in the meta right now because most people are running jolly Monferno, meaning it doesn't accomplish its job as well as it used to. But, its still a good set and I won't be changing that. I will however suggest you slash thunder-wave for Shadow ball, which helps to handle Mr. Mime better and to replace colbur berry for Leftovers. This grumpig really needs leftovers more than colbur (imo) and you have two decent knock off switch ins with Monferno & Vullaby (albeit at the loss of eviolite). It needs leftovers to continually be able to check Mr. Mime and Monferno. I would suggest the following set:

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

The evs allow you to outpseed opposing fast, standard Grumpig without losing too much bulk. Leftovers helps mitigate rocks damage.


--------------------------------///

Anyhow, sorry for the large wall of text: but I hope I helped! Good luck on the ladder and I really like your team. Reply to this if you want me to explain or clarify anything.

kbai :heart:
 
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HotFuzzBall

fuzzy-chan \(ㆁヮㆁ✿)
is an Artist
Really appreciate the feedback so far! c: Right now the current team as it stands...
Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Surf

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 232 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock

Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn


PokemonmasterTj I actually forgot Vibrava existed lol... I'm kinda glad you brought it up since my old team had a very hard time switching into Rock types in general. I tried using Gourgeist in place of Grumpig but I found myself really weak to Rotom-F and Articuno since my whole team collapses once Lapras falls, but it was handy against those pesky Normal types. Monferno was also a really good change, I found it to be really useful since it was a nice pivot and also priority Mach Punch was very useful against set-up sweepers like Cacturne and Gorebyss that were getting out of hand.

aki0s I like the new Grumpig and Golem sets you have provided, I was outspeeding bulkier Golems and being able to knock them out with ease once they hit the Sturdy point. Grumpig was nice against Mr. Mime since ScarfMime was very annoying for me to deal with initially since I had virtually no switch-ins (except Vullaby on a Psychic/shock) so that's another weakness gone. Overall, Scarf Raichu was a waaaaay better addition then Zebstrika, it outsped more threats then Zebstrika and hits much harder too.

yeah I'll update the op at some point tmr ;w; Thank you~
 
Really appreciate the feedback so far! c: Right now the current team as it stands...
Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Surf

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 232 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock

Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

Monferno @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn


PokemonmasterTj I actually forgot Vibrava existed lol... I'm kinda glad you brought it up since my old team had a very hard time switching into Rock types in general. I tried using Gourgeist in place of Grumpig but I found myself really weak to Rotom-F and Articuno since my whole team collapses once Lapras falls, but it was handy against those pesky Normal types. Monferno was also a really good change, I found it to be really useful since it was a nice pivot and also priority Mach Punch was very useful against set-up sweepers like Cacturne and Gorebyss that were getting out of hand.

aki0s I like the new Grumpig and Golem sets you have provided, I was outspeeding bulkier Golems and being able to knock them out with ease once they hit the Sturdy point. Grumpig was nice against Mr. Mime since ScarfMime was very annoying for me to deal with initially since I had virtually no switch-ins (except Vullaby on a Psychic/shock) so that's another weakness gone. Overall, Scarf Raichu was a waaaaay better addition then Zebstrika, it outsped more threats then Zebstrika and hits much harder too.

yeah I'll update the op at some point tmr ;w; Thank you~
Anytime!
 

LordST

Wa Ha Ha
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
So the team in its updated state looks pretty solid and is definitely an improvement over the first version but i still think it can be improved.

First off, while I can see why aki0s would suggest scarf Raichu, scarf Raichu is incredibly weak and doesn't even check Mr. Mime which is one of the reasons he suggested it. Mr. Mime isn't even too much of an issue since Spdef Golem and Grumpig check pretty much every variant of Mime to an extent. Since Phys Def Vibrava is now on the team as well, RP Relicanth becomes significantly less threatening. Therefore I believe you are free to run a much more effective scarf user than Raichu. Enter Scarf Rotom.
--->

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick
So when considering what to suggest, I determined that it was pretty much necessary that your scarfer needed to be an electric type as your team is incredibly weak to Articuno without it. Scarf Rotom offers a lot of benefits over Raichu. Dual BoltBeam STAB is incredibly potent and quite hard to switch into. a higher base spA stat in 105 also benefits Rotom greatly. Double Ice types might seem a bit weird, however I think on this specific team it fits quite well. Specs Lapras does a really good job removing or weakening Rotom's checks such as Grumpig, Chinchou, Audino, and Regice making Rotom sweeps late game much easier. Your team also doesn't mind the stacked weaknesses as you have two solid fire/fighting checks, one of the best rock checks in the tier in Vibrava, and decent steel checks with Lapras and Monferno. I think you will see a lot better results with this over Raichu.

Recap
  • Mr Mime isn't as much of a threat as you seem to think.
  • Rotom over Raichu gives you a stronger and more reliable revenge killer.
  • It forms a neat Ice Spam core with Lapras.
Hope i could be of some help! Good luck with the team!

EDIT:
I wanted to update your threatlist to your team as well since it will help you be wary of them in battle.

Grumpig is a massive threat as it can beat pretty much everything on your team 1v1. As it stands, your Grumpig check is your own Grumpig/Golem's Sucker Punch. Play extremely carefully when your opponent has one and make sure your own Grumpig is healthy enough to take it on or get it low enough to the point where Rotom can revenge it with Tbolt.

Your Flying resist is Golem which is great for the majority of birds in the tier. However Jumpluff walks through Golem with its grass coverage. When playing against Jumpluff, choose your sleep fodder wisely and make sure you preserve Rotom for revenging it.

Offensive Grass types in general are threatening. Your only switch in is Monferno which can take serious damage from coverage moves such as Simisage's Superpower or Leafeon/Sawsbuck's Double Edge. Make sure Monferno is healthy enough to take these on
late game or have Rotom ready to revenge them. Watch out for Scarf sets as well as they can all outspeed Rotom and kill after rocks.
 
Last edited:
So the team in its updated state looks pretty solid and is definitely an improvement over the first version but i still think it can be improved.

First off, while I can see why aki0s would suggest scarf Raichu, scarf Raichu is incredibly weak and doesn't even check Mr. Mime which is one of the reasons he suggested it. Mr. Mime isn't even too much of an issue since Spdef Golem and Grumpig check pretty much every variant of Mime to an extent. Since Phys Def Vibrava is now on the team as well, RP Relicanth becomes significantly less threatening. Therefore I believe you are free to run a much more effective scarf user than Raichu. Enter Scarf Rotom.
--->

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick
So when considering what to suggest, I determined that it was pretty much necessary that your scarfer needed to be an electric type as your team is incredibly weak to Articuno without it. Scarf Rotom offers a lot of benefits over Raichu. Dual BoltBeam STAB is incredibly potent and quite hard to switch into. a higher base spA stat in 105 also benefits Rotom greatly. Double Ice types might seem a bit weird, however I think on this specific team it fits quite well. Specs Lapras does a really good job removing or weakening Rotom's checks such as Grumpig, Chinchou, Audino, and Regice making Rotom sweeps late game much easier. Your team also doesn't mind the stacked weaknesses as you have two solid fire/fighting checks, one of the best rock checks in the tier in Vibrava, and decent steel checks with Lapras and Monferno. I think you will see a lot better results with this over Raichu.

Recap
  • Mr Mime isn't as much of a threat as you seem to think.
  • Rotom over Raichu gives you a stronger and more reliable revenge killer.
  • It forms a neat Ice Spam core with Lapras.
Hope i could be of some help! Good luck with the team!

EDIT:
I wanted to update your threatlist to your team as well since it will help you be wary of them in battle.

Grumpig is a massive threat as it can beat pretty much everything on your team 1v1. As it stands, your Grumpig check is your own Grumpig/Golem's Sucker Punch. Play extremely carefully when your opponent has one and make sure your own Grumpig is healthy enough to take it on or get it low enough to the point where Rotom can revenge it with Tbolt.

Your Flying resist is Golem which is great for the majority of birds in the tier. However Jumpluff walks through Golem with its grass coverage. When playing against Jumpluff, choose your sleep fodder wisely and make sure you preserve Rotom for revenging it.

Offensive Grass types in general are threatening. Your only switch in is Monferno which can take serious damage from coverage moves such as Simisage's Superpower or Leafeon/Sawsbuck's Double Edge. Make sure Monferno is healthy enough to take these on
late game or have Rotom ready to revenge them. Watch out for Scarf sets as well as they can all outspeed Rotom and kill after rocks.
While Raichu isn't the best, I admit. I was considering Rotom-F, but double ice makes him a lot weaker to Monferno (and note my suggestion was made before he changed it to Vibrava). It was more of a middle ground. My changes also assumed he would keep Vullaby, which solved the Grass problem, meaning he would not be able to run Rotom-Frost as it would make him fighting weak. It helps (not checks, read again) with Mr. Mime and with Rotom-Frost.

By the bye, the only reason I mentioned Mr. Mime is because his checks he had all die or do nothing at +2 (his grumpig had focus blast - so had no way to hit Mr. Mime) after a rock switch in:
+2 252 SpA Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Golem: 418-494 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 Atk Golem Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 98-116 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO

My changes helped remedy the Mime weakness, if just by giving Grumpig Shadow ball, allowing him to revenge with a sucker.


But good suggestion, Rotom-F is a lot better if he goes the Vibrava route, which I see he has. :heart:
 
Last edited:

LordST

Wa Ha Ha
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While Raichu isn't the best, I admit. I was considering Rotom-F, but double ice makes him a lot weaker to Monferno (and note my suggestion was made before he changed it to Vibrava). It was more of a middle ground. My changes also assumed he would keep Vullaby, which solved the Grass problem, meaning he would not be able to run Rotom-Frost as it would make him fighting weak. It helps (not checks, read again) with Mr. Mime and with Rotom-Frost.

By the bye, the only reason I mentioned Mr. Mime is because his checks he had all die or do nothing at +2 (his grumpig had focus blast - so had no way to hit Mr. Mime) after a rock switch in:
+2 252 SpA Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Golem: 418-494 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 Atk Golem Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 98-116 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO

My changes helped remedy the Mime weakness, if just by giving Grumpig Shadow ball, allowing him to revenge with a sucker.


But good suggestion, Rotom-F is a lot better if he goes the Vibrava route, which I see he has. :heart:
Yea wasn't trying to bad mouth your changes. The suggestions you had made perfect sense with the build he had at the time. However I think Rotom definitely fits better when Vibrava is added as I can see you agree with. :heart:
 
Yea wasn't trying to bad mouth your changes. The suggestions you had made perfect sense with the build he had at the time. However I think Rotom definitely fits better when Vibrava is added as I can see you agree with. :heart:
Sorry if that came off a bit harsh. D: But yeah, good suggestion. :toast:
 

Anty

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Personally I agree that Scarf Raichu is generally not worth it, so I think something to conisder would be replacing Monferno with Rapidash, as their role on this team would be similar, such as checking Grass/Ice-types along with Pokemon such as Pawniard and Monferno, however Rapidash will also improve the teams matchup vs something like NP Mr Mime (along with providing a Fairy resist), and having another fast Pokemon puts so much stress off the choice scarf user. I find that having another fast mon really helps on a team like this one that is based around a slower wallbreaker, in this case Lapras.

This also means you can then try something like Choice Scarf Mr Mime over Raichu, which is better due to its strength, better STABs, and access to Healing Wish really helps out the teams main core (lapras/golem/grumpig) as they lack recovery. Choice Scarf Mime also gives a faster Mach Punch resist in case Grumpig and Vibrava get weakened which could sweep you if it gets a Swords Dance set.

Rapidash @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun

Mr. Mime @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Healing Wish

For the record I think this rate goes well with the updated team which has Vibrava on it.
 

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