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Lapras (Perish Trap)

Argaraffe

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lapras
[SET]
name: Perish Trapper
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Block
move 3: Protect
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 200 HP / 252 SpD / 58 Def

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Much, much bulkier than the usual Perish Trapper in UU, Mismagius thanks to its huge HP and respectable defense and special defense
-Excellent ability for surviving the 2 necessary turns for Perish Trapping to work, Shell Armor, which protects it against critical hit hax

Additional Comments:
-None currently

Teammates:
-Needs a teammate to dispose of common Taunt users. Aggresive lead Alakazam, Ambipom, Defensive Drapion, Mismagius, lead Nidoking, and defensive Spiritomb will carry it most commonly. Every pokemon but Mismagius and Spiritomb will be destroyed by Earthquake, so having a Rhyperior with Earthquake for those threats and Stone Edge to kill Mismagius would be a good idea, although they share a fighting and grass weakness.

Counters:
-Most Taunt users force this Lapras to struggle, although the majority of them are killed by the above Rhyperior. Also, if Lapras is using anything but Protect, Focus Punch users like Muk could put it in its place real quick.
 
First off, new analysis have to be posted in the Quality Control forum.

Moving on, I agree that a PerishTrap set should be online for Lapras, since it's the best at doing it imo. You don't need to write descriptions next to the moves. Lastly, Lapras doesn't learn Taunt :/ Replace that with Surf for an attacking move, or maybe Sing, since sleep guarantees a kill, pretty much.
 
Random Pizzaman said:
First off, new analysis have to be posted in the Quality Control forum.

Moving on, I agree that a PerishTrap set should be online for Lapras, since it's the best at doing it imo. You don't need to write descriptions next to the moves. Lastly, Lapras doesn't learn Taunt :/ Replace that with Surf for an attacking move, or maybe Sing, since sleep guarantees a kill, pretty much.
Click to expand...
Whoops, forgot. Thanks, this is my first analysis.
 
Although this may be gimmicky

[SET]
name: Perish Trapper
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Block
move 3: Protect
move 4: Dive Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 58 Def

I believe atreecko uses something ilke this, jus a dugtrio instead
Nevermind, just use ice beam for venusaur

EDIT: I tested this. It works on some occasions and fails on others. While it does have spectacular bulk, it has serious problems with its ice typing. The ice typing adds nothing but weaknesses to the poor plesiosaur, which really doesn't help it survive for the 3 turns. However, it is quite teh effective gimmick, especially when it meets any milotic without either HP Grass or Toxic or a registeel (who it is hilarious to kill). Hitmonlee and a variety of other fighting types are problematic as well. I tested a different spread though; I didn't test sing either (though I could see how it works well)

Honestly, I really don't know. It's hard to say whether or not it's bad or good. If only because of its ice typing and low speed, I think mismagius outclasses it (seriously; if it didn't have an ice type, lapras would nearly inferiorate milotic as a bulky water.. but the ice type just adds so many weaknesses and only helps it with ice type moves, which it already restists anyway)

TL;DR, Lapras' poor typing stops it from excelling as a Perish trapper due to the sheer amount of weaknesses Ice adds to it.

That said, virtually any fire type is an ideal partner, as they attract water type moves, causing lapras to take no damage switching in if there are Rocks up.

If you have a fire and a water type, A FWG core is in order.

Altaria is also a good teammate, attracting ice moves (and thus... milotic) with its typing; on the flipside, lapras can easily switch into it, block it, and kill it.

A spinner is needed to run lapras. Otherwise, unless you predict a water move there is no way that it will survive those turns needed to kill something.
 
This is actually an effective set, and it's great for removing Pokemon that might cause problems later on. I had someone use it on my Claydol, and the only reason why it didn't work was because I had Explosion on it, knocking out Lapras in the process. I will recommend this set because of its effectiveness. However, I think you should put a warning that it isn't a good idea to use this on Pokemon that know Explosion. Just saying.

Also, Argaraffe, good job on your first analysis! You chose a good set to do it on, unlike me. (See Hitmontop (Technician + Rapid Spin) in the Outdated Analyses Forum)
 
I think it should be at least noted that this set is best for killing bulky, slow Pokemon, like Registeel, Slowbro/king, Spiritomb (I really don't think Spiritomb can kill you within 3 turns, does it even get Thunderbolt?), any... Cursers in general. Anything that needs those guys out of the way would love this addition on a team.
 
I can see this sort of working on maybe Milotic and other bulky Water-types; however, that's basically it. Other than Milotic, Lapras's common switch-ins include Venusaur, who will just put you to sleep and/or KO with a Grass move, and Fighting-types like Hitmontop, who will just KO you. Will test it out, though.
 
I would rather use STAB Ice Beam to do stuff to Venusaur switch ins. I haven't played UU in quite awhile, but I remember Perish Lapras being a lot better being played as a "last pokemon remover" like Celebi in OU.
 
Yes, defiantly add surf as a slash to ice beam not as the primary move.
What are you planning to hit with Surf, really? Venasaur's going to own you without IB.
 
A lot of this set's success was more a result of the opponent's obliviousness rather than the set's effectiveness for me...not to say it was bad, though. It was particularly adept at killing Registeel (I would never leave a Registeel in on Lapras, but to each his own) and Milotic. Might want to mention in set comments that you have to play it in a way that lures Milotic (or Slowbro/Slowking) in (spam Ice Beam; don't immediately Block/Perish Song; don't switch in on Milotic, wait for it to switch in on you; keep in mind the chance that an opponent will switch Milotic in to bait what they think is a potential Thunderbolt, etc).

Agreeing with Ice Beam > Surf, but I think Surf warrants a slash (really depends on if you're using Lapras to sort-of fill a bulky Water role on your team). Also, is there anything special about the EV spread or what?
 
I'm agreeing with Eo's suggestions about the moves, but I'm disagreeing with him about the set's effectiveness. It can cause problems for the opponent, because, when he sees Lapras come out, and he knows it's a Perish Trap set, then he has to decide what to give up, and his sacrifice Pokemon might have been useful later on in the battle. In my opinion, this set would work best in the midgame, so it can remove threats to your team and clear the way for another member to sweep. Therefore, I believe that this set can be very valuable to one's team.

Also, I believe you should take out the part about Muk, as they aren't that common in the UU metagame.
 
Quick optimization I'm surprised no one has brought up yet: 252/200 Calm is less efficient than 200/252 Calm, due to Lapras' huge HP. For instance...

LO Venusaur's Leaf Storm against your spread: 84.1% - 98.7%
Same against 200/252+: 81.6% - 96.2%

Minor, yes, but it costs absolutely nothing to make the change.

Besides that, I tested PerishTrap Jynx a while ago, and it has numerous advantages over this (Sleep move, higher speed, stronger Ice Beam) and it was still only mediocre against most teams (although it ate stall, despite how unpopular stall is now) so I don't know how this will work. I'll test it though.

Edit: Er, you don't have an ability on this. Both Water Absorb and Shell Armor are useful, so you'll have to specify. I'd go with Water Absorb myself.
 
Eo Ut Mortus said:
Any team that lacks a reliable switch-in to a PerishTrap Lapras probably sucks.
Click to expand...

I don't know, I can see Stall teams having trouble breaking this down without getting something trapped, since most don't usually carry a very powerful grass or electric type that can knock out Lapras in 2 turns.
@Flare: I messed around with a gimmick
Perish Trap team a while ago (umbreon was still around) and always found being able to take a hit extremely important. And Lapras DOES have Sing to use if it wants.
 
I agree with Random Pizzaman that this would be an incredible tool against stall. A typical Chansey/Milotic/Rotom/Spiritomb/Hitmontop/whatever stall team would be eaten alive. Hitmontop is really the only threat as with Lapras's high defenses it can take Rotom's 0 special attack investment Thunderbolts.

You definitely need a Pokemon that can handle Venusaur, however, since other Grass-types like Torterra and Sceptile don't enjoy Ice Beams as much. Dugtrio should also be a teammate to carry on the Perish Trap if Lapras would somehow be knocked out beforehand, and can switch in on Thunderbolt.

I guess what sets this apart from Jynx would be the higher bulk which can definitely come in handy, but it seems rather team specific.
 
Random Pizzaman said:
I don't know, I can see Stall teams having trouble breaking this down without getting something trapped, since most don't usually carry a very powerful grass or electric type that can knock out Lapras in 2 turns.
@Flare: I messed around with a gimmick
Perish Trap team a while ago (umbreon was still around) and always found being able to take a hit extremely important. And Lapras DOES have Sing to use if it wants.
Click to expand...

Most stall teams use Hitmontop as their spinner, who handles Lapras adequately. There's also Blastoise, who can Roar it out. And while Spiritomb seems to be the most common spinblocker, there's also bulky Rotom and Mismagius. Not to mention that Stealth Rock + multiple layers of hazards will hinder Lapras's entry. That being said, I can see where stall teams may have problems with Lapras, and while I think they probably aren't that viable, my previous statement was probably too general. I still, however, believe that if a team has no way of dealing with a PerishTrap Lapras, it is likely a poorly constructed one or one that needs fixing.

Again, I don't think the set is bad, but if it gets more than one kill per match from Perish Song, then there's probably something wrong with the opponent's team.
 
Eo Ut Mortus said:
Most stall teams use Hitmontop as their spinner, who handles Lapras adequately. There's also Blastoise, who can Roar it out. And while Spiritomb seems to be the most common spinblocker, there's also bulky Rotom and Mismagius. Not to mention that Stealth Rock + multiple layers of hazards will hinder Lapras's entry. That being said, I can see where stall teams may have problems with Lapras, and while I think they probably aren't that viable, my previous statement was probably too general. I still, however, believe that if a team has no way of dealing with a PerishTrap Lapras, it is likely a poorly constructed one or one that needs fixing.

Again, I don't think the set is bad, but if it gets more than one kill per match from Perish Song, then there's probably something wrong with the opponent's team.
Click to expand...

0 SpA Rotom vs 200Hp/ 252 SpD Calm Lapras: 33.3% - 39%. Theres a very good chance you'll beat a Rotom switch in, who doesn't even 2KO with Rocks up, and will lose if no SR is up or if Lapras switches in on a Surf or something. Spiritomb flat out loses, and from there stall crumbles if you have a spinner (which you should with Lapras being SR weak). Missy does rock your world with Taunt so you don't win there, but very few stall teams will be using Missy as their main spin blocker.
I agree with your last point, that this shouldnt be working more than once against a competent team that isn't heavy stall.
 
OK, so there's a few things we can do with this set.

Either reject it with Argaraffe being a banned deucer and all as he wouldn't be able to update the OP or write it for that manner assuming it did go through QC.

Or, we can approve it and have someone else simply write it up.

Or reject it.

I think it's an interesting set, but as Eo pointed out, it's really tough to get more than 1 kill per match.

Can I get some QC input here?
 
I think you should slash Protect with Surf(Leave Protect as primary slash and Surf as secondary), in many scenarios, the opponent won't be able to hurt you all too much and having a Secondary STAB is useful.
 
If more people like this set, I can take it over. I'll definitely add in people's suggestions if I do end up doing this. Still, I want to see if the general consensus is for approving this set before I take it over. According to everyone's suggestions, this is what it should look like:

[SET]
name: Perish Trapper
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Block
move 3: Protect / Surf
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 200 HP / 56 Def / 252 SpD

If I'm leaving anything out, please tell me.
 
When I tested this waaay back, IIRC I didn't feel that surf really deserved a spot. Plus, having a poke with Protect was always handy for the odd PP stall or soemthing.

Otherwise, like I said before, Lapras is really a mixed bag. It has nice bulk, but that very bulk is practically neutralized by its ice typing, which causes it to take more switching into SR. The only good thing to come of it is hitting Venusaur harder, but even that's not all that great since you have to switch immediately after.

It's really hard to argue for it simply due to its ice typing (hell that's the main reason Lapras sucks :/). I'm not entirely sure if the set really desrves an analysis.
 
@ Flashrider - ShinyAzelf actually contacted me earlier, so he has the rights to this set if it passes QC.

@ Breludicolo - My sentiments exactly.
 
Oglemi sent me a VM:
OK, change of plans. You can have the Lapras Perish Trap set. But, if it's going to be too much on your plate, just hold off until your other stuff in C&C is done before posting another thread. :)
Click to expand...
I'll have a good amount of time coming up, so I'll post my version up soon. This thread can be locked...
 
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