LC Extended [December Leader's Choice ladder]

Alright, sorry should have extended that. I assumed sucker punch and that was wrong of me.

Defog is a Gen 4 HM and cannot be obtained on Stunky (or Skuntank) any other way, so it is incompatible with Play Rough.
It's ok- most people use sucker punch anyway. :toast: I wish there was a warning that explained why certain things aren't allowed. It would make move selection easier when you have weird gen-restricted movepools like Stunky does.


Back on the mons!
Froakie is amazing for setups. Just be wary of predicts who will blast you with elemental attacks knowing you probably have Protean.
Stealth rock is heavily abused from all users so far. Dwebble and Onix are pretty common.
Defog is neglected. Consider using a water type as ground/rock/flying are everywhere.
Koffing is a great wall against anything without psychic moves. Explosion can be added in case of actual threats and clear smog is great against boosters.
Aipom always uses fakeout and power-up punch. You're not likely to see anything else.
 
So can Pok with more than evolution (ex, Eevee) learn all moves from all their possible evolutions (ex, Flare Blitz+ Aqua Tail set)? The initial post did not specify this and the current bugs keep it muddled.
 
Something else azurill can use play rough in addition to getting stuff like superpower and knock off plus a priority in aqua jet
 
Aipom always uses fakeout and power-up punch. You're not likely to see anything else.
Power-up Punch is bad on Aipom. Really bad. Most decent aipom sets use Fake Out/Fury Swipes/Knock Off and then a coverage move. Brick Break, Fire Punch, Water Pulse to hit Onix, etc.
 
Quiver Dance / Giga Drain / Hidden Power / [Healing Wish / Sleep Powder] should be legal on Petilil unless I missed something.

It learns Sleep Powder at Level 10, then evolves into Liligant and learns Quiver Dance at level 28, then Giga Drain / Hidden Power from TMs. Healing Wish comes from an Egg Move, so if you raise a Petilil with Healing Wish to learn Quiver Dance, then evolve it into a Lilligant and learn Sleep Powder, it should be able to have them both.
 
Power-up Punch is bad on Aipom. Really bad. Most decent aipom sets use Fake Out/Fury Swipes/Knock Off and then a coverage move. Brick Break, Fire Punch, Water Pulse to hit Onix, etc.
I'm just saying what I see. Aipoms sent out with power-up punch to knock out the overuse of normal/rock types in this meta are popular so far. It's actually a decent move, especially as it works like sword dance only it deals some damage (possibly super effective at that). People just don't use fairy, grass or other types that aren't weak to fighting so far as they're too weak to survive hits from stab-users like rufflet (NORMAL). As a bonus, aipom isn't weak to flying so it might survive to kill the rufflet unlike an actual fighting type which would be slaughtered.
 

boo836

Banned deucer.
I'm just saying what I see. Aipoms sent out with power-up punch to knock out the overuse of normal/rock types in this meta are popular so far. It's actually a decent move, especially as it works like sword dance only it deals some damage (possibly super effective at that). People just don't use fairy, grass or other types that aren't weak to fighting so far as they're too weak to survive hits from stab-users like rufflet (NORMAL). As a bonus, aipom isn't weak to flying so it might survive to kill the rufflet unlike an actual fighting type which would be slaughtered.
You're talking about using a 40 BP, nonstab move as a viable alternative to actual coverage. Just because you see dumb sets on low ladder, it doesn't mean that it's a trend in the metagame.

Also,

196 Atk Aipom Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
 

Many

Ehehehehh
is a Tiering Contributor
I just want to say thanks for making this meta as it's super fun.

The Quiver Dance users (Venonat, Surskit, and Petilil) are all super fun to abuse. Also, Sandile is really solid now with Knock Off, and Magby is just an amazing special sweeper with Thunderbolt. Cause Sticky Webs can now be dropped by the amazing Compoundeyes Thunder Joltik, Hyper Offense seems to really thrive.

Specs Adaptability Hydro Pump Feebas is A GOD

just gonna drop some replays cause why not
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lcextended-300048246
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lcextended-300050291
 

Jac

someday... the dream will end.
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Aipom may not be weak to Flying but that doesnt mean Rufflet's attacks dont hurt. It's bulk is p average and it's STABs + Superpower will do a lot.
 
Well, then here's a valid question: any reliable counters for Rufflet in this meta?
Bunnelby is almost as bad but at least it can't fly.
 
Well, then here's a valid question: any reliable counters for Rufflet in this meta?
Bunnelby is almost as bad but at least it can't fly.
Rufflet
Checks:

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower vs. 196 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Beldum: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Beldum: 9-11 (39.1 - 47.8%)
not great, but in return:
76 Atk Beldum Ice Punch vs. -1 116 HP / 196 Def Rufflet: 16-20 (64 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and then then
76 Atk Beldum Bullet Punch vs. -1 116 HP / 196 Def Rufflet: 7-9 (28 - 36%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Solid Rock Tirtouga: 16-21 (64 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and in return 0 Atk Tirtouga Stone Edge vs. -1 116 HP / 116 Def Rufflet: 38-48 (152 - 192%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Counters:
-2 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 116 Def Eviolite Honedge: 4-6 (19 - 28.5%) -- 12.6% chance to 4HKO
(kings sheild)
the most rufflet can do to this guy is 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Rufflet Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Eviolite Honedge: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO. This is bad, but you can A: scout this with kings sheild if its in and B: ignore rufflet for the rest of the match, because it's useless.



Both
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower vs. 220 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 13-16 (52 - 64%) and then -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower vs. +2 232 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 5-6 (20 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO. Proceed to rest off the damage. If they stay in, 8 Atk Bronzor Rock Slide vs. -1 116 HP / 116 Def Rufflet: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

228+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO. In return, 8 SpA Bronzor Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bunnelby: 10-12 (50 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
resting + iron defense works here, too (4hko) if they are choice and lack sd. However, if they sd you can iron defense alongside, and still avoid the 3hko

Sadly, it has few other uses, as it is overpowered by other mons. Note fire punch beats this. You can stop that with heatproof, but you then lose to earthquake.

EV spread 220 hp/232 def/8 att/8 spa/40 speed, relaxed nature
 
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I've laddered a little bit and I can tell you that webs is a very solid playstyle with Joltik being able to use it along with Compound Eyes Thunder, if you're able to keep them in the field during the battle then you'll have an easy win with a lot of abusers such as Bunnelby, Analytic Hydro Pump Staryu, Life Orb Ponyta with Drill Run, Sludge Wave Gastly, Rufflet and more..

If I test any other thing and it ends up being great I'll let you know n_n
 

boo836

Banned deucer.
For those of you looking for a Rufflett check there's always Honedge, which i should add now has King's Shield. It's now one of the best checks to a host of new and improved wallbreakers.

I'm also very sad that i can't quickpass Quiver Dance to Porygon. :c

Also why tf are people using CB Rufflett when you can run Evio Hone Claws. The damn thing's bulkier than Mienfoo ffs
 
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The problem is that rufflet is faster than Beldum and honedge. Rufflet just needs to use heat wave to KO in 1-2 hits. Tirtuga is weak to fighting so it'll only be able to get 1-2 hits in before dying with either bunelby or rufflet. Even worse, rufflet is fast which doesn't help the miss chances on most rock moves.

Bronzor would be able to take bunnelby but any sort of switch eliminates them. Either that or bunnelby can use smack down (removes levitate, as I understand it anyway) and earthquake. Two hit KO. As bunnelby tends to be fast, it's likely to kill bronzor before bronzor can get in a killing blow. Honedge is also weak to earthquake.
 
i've been running web offense w/ honedge, rufflet, joltik + whismur. this team cleans like nobody's business. whismur gets boomburst and lots of coverage, which combined with specs and webs makes for a scary wallbreaker. honedge is just broken either way, under webs even more so. petlil is there but more for a safety net.
 
The problem is that rufflet is faster than Beldum and honedge. Rufflet just needs to use heat wave to KO in 1-2 hits. Tirtuga is weak to fighting so it'll only be able to get 1-2 hits in before dying with either bunelby or rufflet. Even worse, rufflet is fast which doesn't help the miss chances on most rock moves.

Bronzor would be able to take bunnelby but any sort of switch eliminates them. Either that or bunnelby can use smack down (removes levitate, as I understand it anyway) and earthquake. Two hit KO. As bunnelby tends to be fast, it's likely to kill bronzor before bronzor can get in a killing blow. Honedge is also weak to earthquake.
If you're not sheer force, even modest heat wave doesn't 2hko bronzor. If you are, it means you aren't hustle, which hurts your sweeping chances. 252+ SpA Rufflet Heat Wave vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 10-12 (40 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. Even nuetral sheer force doesn't 2hko very well- 252 SpA Sheer Force Rufflet Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 10-14 (40 - 56%) -- 11.3% chance to 2HKO. The max Rufflet can do without being useless is 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rufflet Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 16-21 (64 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, which can be remedied with Heatproof to keep bronzor as a counter 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rufflet Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Heatproof Bronzor: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO. The only reason to run levitate is to check both.

Wait, Bunnelby runs smack down?
Even if it does, it's still a check if you remove the speed reducing nature.
228+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Bunnelby Earthquake vs. +2 220 HP / 232+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 10-13 (40 - 52%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 13)
You can rest it off until they run out of pp
 
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predict the kings shield and he's gotta switch to something to take a knock (usually cant)
You gotta outpredict them, so idk. Not everyone can do that, but if it works for you that's fine. However, I can block that if I flip a coin to decide- it makes me unpredictable. That's not a good strategy overall, but you can't rely on prediction completely.
 

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