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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
- Status
I'd like to support Abra for A-. It has two great sets: Sash and SubLO; It's the best Focus Sash user in the tier thanks to Magic Guard preventing hazards from breaking it, meaning that Abra will always live through any single hit. It can kill any frail sweeper without multi-hit moves regardless of how boosted up their Speed or attacking stats may be. The Sub + Life Orb set will make a kill every time it ends up behind a Substitute, and even without it, can 2HKO basically the whole tier with very few exceptions.
I have no qualms with Corphish moving up, but I'd like to see it no higher than B-. It has some crazy strong attacks and can rip teams apart after a Dragon Dance, but it is too squishy to set up on a lot of things, and it's offensive move pool is quite limited considering it pretty much needs to run both Aqua Jet and Crabhammer.
I second moving Abra to A- as it is a very powerful Attacker that requires little to no support to be effective in its role as a sweeper.
Abra isn't a sweeper-its primary niche is that of an effective revenge killer with Magic Guard and Focus Sash that can stop most setup sweepers cold. Its other set, Sub LO, is also very good, but is incredibly weak to priority. That being said, I don't think Abra warrants A-. Priority is everywhere right now, and Abra has the physical bulk of a wet paper bag. unlike Carvanha, who is similarly frail, Abra doesn't have a fantastic offensive typing, STAB priority, and an amazing ability going for it. In addition, it really can only do its job once, and after that is dead weight. Its very good at what it does, but it can really only do one thing and is putclassed beyond that. Keep this mon in B-rank for now.
EDIT: Can we begin sub-ranking B mons now?
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I agree fully with this. I've used Abra heaps in this meta and it can massacre some Pokemon if given the chance, but finding an opening to do anything is a lot more difficult than it seems. The sash set is wasted potential in my opinion, but the life orb set is easily slain by most priority and Dark-types and can take out one or two opponents at the best of times, while Carvanha can take out at least one or two most of the time. It should stay B rank and probably doesn't deserve a B+ rank.
oh lol. i didnt actually read your post, I saw Abra and A rank in the same sentence so i got upset
Wobby you're alive? What? I never see you in the room anymore. ;-;
The biggest issue with Abra is that either you run Sub LO + Stab/Filler/Filler and you cant kill one of your threats or you run Sash with STAB/filler/filler/filler and you can kill Pawn and like a few other things until you're picked off. SBall + Dgleam + HP Fight are all important for one reason or another and it's hard to balance what is needed and what isnt. Most of the support Abra needs is one of it's hard checks gone. No Shadow Ball means you're not gunna nail ghosts for OHKOs or 2HKOs. No HP Fight and Pawniard is slapping you around. DGleam nails Darks like Vullaby and Scraggy who come in on your projected Psychics. You would have to run all these moves to be claim that it needs no support. Even then running LO is the only way to secure your damage is real and gets the KO. Without Sub you cant fake out Sucker Punch Pawniards to get the HP Fight OHKO. Without Sash you're not taking that hit at all.
Let's leave you in B for now.
Let's stay on A rankings for now as well, We will get there when we get there mkay?
I'll support this, Foongus might not be able to handle bird spam but it's still a solid defensive mon who can mess with the omnipresent Cottonee. I still think Regen dream team is legit still even with mean birds around. But we are simply discussing Foongus. I'll incorporate it onto a new team and give it a whirl and see how it handles it all.
With the new popularity of Cottonee, I find Foongus to be amazing right now, it literally doesn't give a shit about Cottonee at all. It's almost getting to the point where if I ran Cottonee, I'd want to run Overcoat Vullaby alongside it, just so I'm not weak af to Foongus. I'll support the A- movement. (which everyone else seems to too, I'll move it)
As for Abra: I actually find sash abra to be outclassed by Scarf Misdreavus, who works the same as a revenge killer, but it can do the job more than once per game. However Abra can always revenge Carvanha and Pawniard (if it runs HP Fight) whilst Missy has mind games with Pawn. Sub + LO is strong as fuck too, but I don't think it's good enough to warrant A-: Definitely a B+ mon but I can see it in A- at a push.
Also nominating Amaura for B. With a scarf it is fantastic at beating the fletch+dig core (unless sash diglett but w/e) and it can run a berry juice set with TWave to fuck up mons like Pawniard and Mienfoo. Main issue is being walled by Chinchou but it's not too much of an issue as it can be worn down
As for Abra: I actually find sash abra to be outclassed by Scarf Misdreavus, who works the same as a revenge killer, but it can do the job more than once per game. However Abra can always revenge Carvanha and Pawniard (if it runs HP Fight) whilst Missy has mind games with Pawn. Sub + LO is strong as fuck too, but I don't think it's good enough to warrant A-: Definitely a B+ mon but I can see it in A- at a push.
Also nominating Amaura for B. With a scarf it is fantastic at beating the fletch+dig core (unless sash diglett but w/e) and it can run a berry juice set with TWave to fuck up mons like Pawniard and Mienfoo. Main issue is being walled by Chinchou but it's not too much of an issue as it can be worn down
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Sash Abra is not outclassed by Scarf Misdreavus because it will always do it's job (barring hax or multi-hit move users of which there are only like 2) even if it only does it once. Misdreavus can only stop that which it outspeeds; strong priority, Speed Boost Baton Pass recipients, or sweepers like Scraggy that you accidentally let grab more than one boost can beat Misdreavus and then the rest of your team. Abra, on the other hand, is more like a "panic button". +6/+6 Scraggy? Carvanha gotten out of hand? Torchic setting up all over you? No problem. It's extremely reliable, and therefore functions much better as a glue for your team, even if it only manages to knock out one Pokemon before dying to priority. If that one Pokemon it took out was a tremendously boosted threat that nothing else could have handled, I think it's worth the trade.
The Sub + LO set, on the other hand, is less reliable because it can't take a hit and priority can destroy it. That said, the extra power you get is worth it. Being able to 2HKO almost the whole tier means that it forces a ton of switches, giving you plenty of time to set up Substitute. Once behind this Sub, it is all but guaranteed a kill. Most dangerous at this point are the priority users and Scarfers of the tier, because Abra can only get one hit on them. Let's see what Abra's one attack from behind that Sub can do to them:
Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, Grimer, Carvanha, Pawniard - Obviously destroyed by Psychic or HP Fight
Fletchling - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 156 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 23-29 (100 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tirtouga - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Tirtouga: 21-27 (100 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO with SR
Scarf Misdreavus - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Shadow Ball vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Misdreavus: 21-26 (91.3 - 113%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Snover - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 21-27 (95.4 - 122.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
OK so I know I probably left a bunch of stuff out but I can't really think of any other Scarfer that can handle LO Abra behind a Sub. Naturally, these calcs mean nothing if Abra doesn't have a Substitute available, but if it does, then they show that none of them can stop it. That's where this Abra belongs: behind a Substitute, and when that happens, its sweeping ability is unmatched and certainly deserving of A- when combined with the utility of the Sash set.
The Sub + LO set, on the other hand, is less reliable because it can't take a hit and priority can destroy it. That said, the extra power you get is worth it. Being able to 2HKO almost the whole tier means that it forces a ton of switches, giving you plenty of time to set up Substitute. Once behind this Sub, it is all but guaranteed a kill. Most dangerous at this point are the priority users and Scarfers of the tier, because Abra can only get one hit on them. Let's see what Abra's one attack from behind that Sub can do to them:
Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, Grimer, Carvanha, Pawniard - Obviously destroyed by Psychic or HP Fight
Fletchling - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 156 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 23-29 (100 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Tirtouga - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Tirtouga: 21-27 (100 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO with SR
Scarf Misdreavus - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Shadow Ball vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Misdreavus: 21-26 (91.3 - 113%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Snover - 236 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 21-27 (95.4 - 122.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
OK so I know I probably left a bunch of stuff out but I can't really think of any other Scarfer that can handle LO Abra behind a Sub. Naturally, these calcs mean nothing if Abra doesn't have a Substitute available, but if it does, then they show that none of them can stop it. That's where this Abra belongs: behind a Substitute, and when that happens, its sweeping ability is unmatched and certainly deserving of A- when combined with the utility of the Sash set.
I guess... But iunno i still think that it has to lose out on choosing an appropriate attack to handle it's checks if running Sub. That in my opinion hurts it.
Sash is still quite a silly thing to use unless it's really late game. There is really no scarfer short from Mincinno who can handle Abra. Unless we wanna count SS Dwebble with Rock Blast.
+1 wait for right now? the power is real but the missing out is also real. You've pushed your case well imo.
After using Amaura, I am going to have to disagree with it rising completely.
Well, GlassGlaceon reminded me I forgot to edit reasons in so...
Too easily taken advantage of if it's Choice Scarfed, too slow if it's not, and is walled by common threats including Chinchou and Magnemite. Amaura is cute, and I love it to death, but it is extremely undeserving of being B right now. Maybe if it receives Earth Power from move tutors in November, but we'll see.
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Often in chat I'll see something along the lines of, "What's the best chinchou counter?" and then multiple people just say, "Your own chinchou!" Well no longer is this the case, I'll be introducing you to the number one Chinchou counter that can also deal with a significant portion of the metagame. Goldeen walls all chinchou sets lacking HP grass completely (Because of Lightning Rod) and can beat every bird check, barring pawniard which every team has a fighter for anyway. Goldeen's job isn't to just wall bird checks and counters, it also has a great offensive movepool including such things as knock off, drill run, waterfall, and megahorn, making it difficult to switch into. (Cottonee and Foongus being the most reliable answers) Goldeen also hits the lovely speed tier of 17 if you wish to go that route, allowing it to speed tie with common threats such as mienfoo and archen and outspeed much of the metagame. This high speed is especially useful when you only have one weakness (Grass; An uncommon attacking move) and you have a diverse movepool to hit the opposing mon with a super effective move. Because of all these things combined, Goldeen can make a great addition to any team and should be B- rank.
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You should probably mention what lets golden counter Chou cuz all my water veil goldeen does is die to chinchou how does yours do it :( (sarcasm btw)
LOL I can't believe I forgot to mention Lightning Rod, thanks :P
Am I the only one that feels like Stunky should get a rank? I mean it can Pursuit trap, Sucker Punch, Taunt, Defog, Haze, has a good movepool and good speed/attack to use it with. It can run a scarf set or a life orb set. It has Fire Blast for bulky steel types. It has good HP Also and can make a decent defensive pokemon. I feel C- or high D would be a good spot for it. I wish it got Poison Jab though. Oh well.
H¡dden Power said:
Yah, Goldeen could fit in C quite well.
EDIT: It already is C. That being said, I don't feel as though Goldeen measures up to the other B ranked mons.
People earlier in the thread said it deserves a rank as well. I think it should be in D, personally, seeing as it lacks Poison Jab and Knock Off.
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Yeah, I agree D.
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