Research Legends: Z-A Mechanics Research

[Marty]

Probable spoilers, proceed at your own risk!

Because this game is not turn based the information gathered here won't be very useful for simulator purposes, but it's still nice to have for completeness and so people can get into thoroughly researching game mechanics.

Raw data courtesy of Kaphotics and mattyoukhana_


New Moves

Nihil Light

- 100 power, 100 accuracy, 10 PP, targets both opponents​

- Blocked by protection moves.​

- Can be copied by Mirror Move.​

- Can be selected by Metronome.​

It has Core Enforcer's effect but that also appears to be a placeholder because its description says otherwise: "The user attacks by unleashing a powerful light that defies all laws of nature, striking even Fairy types and ignoring any stat changes affecting its targets."

This info is from the standard move data table used in previous games; Legends: Z-A branched off prior to Scarlet and Violet DLC so none of those newer moves or changes to old moves are present. It is known that in this game Nihil Light actually has 200 power, for example.

 

[Marty]

Here are starter questions to give the thread some direction:
- Do returning items such as Life Orb and Expert Belt still have the same effects as in other games?
- Does rain do the same thing as in Legends: Arceus (0.75x Fire damage, no effect on Water moves)?
- What is the Plus Move bonus for an attack that's super effective?
- What is the damage reduction for Plus Moves going through Protect/Detect?
- What is the damage reduction for moves used against Rogue Mega Evolutions?
- How much damage does a Rogue Mega Evolution deal to the player through type immunities?


The only notably interesting thing I've seen is the move data has a new field for percentage healed from draining moves, which was previously implemented in the same field as recoil percentage. It's unclear what purpose this serves unless they plan to introduce a future move that both drains and has recoil.

 

[Vengeance417]

Leftovers passively heals the holder every few seconds (feels like 5 - 10? I’ll have to count the timing in my head). It even heals outside of battle when the user is walking around.

Edit: just tested, Leftovers heals every 10 seconds, regardless if you’re in battle or not. No actions are needed for it to activate.

 

[Magcargo]

Haven't tested thoroughly but my initial impression is that Moonlight heals less than 50% of HP. Seems closer to 25 - 33%.

 

[Vengeance417]

Haven't tested thoroughly but my initial impression is that Moonlight heals less than 50% of HP. Seems closer to 25 - 33%.

Seems like that applies to recovery moves in general. I remember seeing Recover heal around that amount.

Edit to prevent double posting.

Been using an on my ingame team. It has a passive version of its Stance Change ability when it uses King’s Shield. However, it has to play the Stance Change animation before it can use King’s Shield, and before it switches to Attack mode. This has made using it extremely awkward because there’s a second or two delay for each action during the Stance Change.

King’s Shield retains its attack-lowering side effect when contact moves touch Aegislash, but due to the SC delay, Aegislash takes damage during the animation before the move can go off, making KS probably the worst Protect clone in the game.

 

[Anubis]

These are configurable battle parameters we extracted that would need to be understood:

{
  "DamagePerMegaAura": 30,
  "DamagePerRandomAmplitude": 15,
  "DamagePerTrainerBattle": 70,
  "DamagePerWildBattle": 70,
  "DamagePerWeatherAdvantage": 0,
  "DamagePerWeatherDisadvantage": 0,
  "DamagePerCritical": 0,
  "DamagePerCriticalPlus": 0,
  "DamagePerTypeMatch": 0,
  "DamagePerTypeMatchPlus": 0,
  "DamagePerMamoruThroughPlus": 0,
  "DamagePerTypeAff": {
    "PerType18": 15,
    "PerType14": 30,
    "PerType12": 60,
    "PerType1": 100,
    "PerType2": 200,
    "PerType4": 400,
    "PerType8": 800
  },
  "DamagePerTypeAffPlus": {
    "PerType18": 18,
    "PerType14": 36,
    "PerType12": 72,
    "PerType1": 120,
    "PerType2": 260,
    "PerType4": 520,
    "PerType8": 1040
  },
  "DamagePerMegaTypeAff": {
    "PerType18": 100,
    "PerType14": 100,
    "PerType12": 100,
    "PerType1": 100,
    "PerType2": 100,
    "PerType4": 63,
    "PerType8": 63
  },
  "DamagePerMegaTypeAffPlus": {
    "PerType18": 100,
    "PerType14": 100,
    "PerType12": 100,
    "PerType1": 100,
    "PerType2": 100,
    "PerType4": 63,
    "PerType8": 63
  },
  "ReflectorDamageCutRatio": 66,
  "HikarinokabeDamageCutRatio": 66,
  "NeedleGuardDamageDemon": 0,
  "StealthRockDamageDemon": {
    "DemonType1": 8,
    "DemonType12": 16,
    "DemonType14": 32,
    "DemonType18": 32,
    "DemonType116": 32,
    "DemonType132": 32,
    "DemonType2": 6,
    "DemonType4": 4,
    "DemonType8": 4,
    "DemonType16": 4,
    "DemonType32": 4
  },
  "StealthRockDamageDemonPlus": {
    "DemonType1": 8,
    "DemonType12": 16,
    "DemonType14": 32,
    "DemonType18": 32,
    "DemonType116": 32,
    "DemonType132": 32,
    "DemonType2": 6,
    "DemonType4": 4,
    "DemonType8": 4,
    "DemonType16": 4,
    "DemonType32": 4
  },
  "CriticalRankRatio": [
    24,
    8,
    2,
    1
  ]
}

 

[damocleas]

Was directed here, hello.

Was wondering how the new Mega Greninja Water Shuriken worked and if anyone could look into it, since the summary info doesn't change, (15bp, 3cd) like Core Enforcer -> Replaced with Nihil Light does, but the attack seems to just turn into 1 much stronger hit.

Are all hits calculated before it hits as 15 damage x 5 with the crit checked after? Is it a 75 base power move? I could not find anything conclusive from testing.

 

[asylum028454]

Hi, I haven't seen this noted anywhere but I noticed that Mega Meganium's Solar beam has a shorter charge up than its non mega form. Not sure if it changes its base power or anything. There is a clear difference in the charge up time. It was around 2 seconds for non mega and near instant for mega form.

I was testing it because Mega Meganium's dex entry mentions Solar Beam directly. Between this and Mega Greninja's Water Shuriken changing there might be a couple of megas that change a specific move associated with them.

 

[Perriechu]

Hi, I haven't seen this noted anywhere but I noticed that Mega Meganium's Solar beam has a shorter charge up than its non mega form. Not sure if it changes its base power or anything. There is a clear difference in the charge up time. It was around 2 seconds for non mega and near instant for mega form.

I was testing it because Mega Meganium's dex entry mentions Solar Beam directly. Between this and Mega Greninja's Water Shuriken changing there might be a couple of megas that change a specific move associated with them.

It’s more the plus benefit than megas.

I tested this with Florges too. Solarbeam doesn’t need to charge when it’s used under “plus” (or mega technically)

 

[asylum028454]

It’s more the plus benefit than megas.

I tested this with Florges too. Solarbeam doesn’t need to charge when it’s used under “plus” (or mega technically)

Aw, Im not that far enough in the game so I couldn't test with another pokemon that had Solar Beam. But good to know it works with other mons.

 

[DragonMasterX34]

Is the damage formula the same as the mainline games? I know Legends Arceus calculated damage differently. I'm seeing Pokemon take damage that sometimes doesn't make sense especially in online play, but that could be due to people using their in-game teams that have random combinations of EVs and IVs throwing off the damage.

 

[Anubis]

Is the damage formula the same as the mainline games? I know Legends Arceus calculated damage differently. I'm seeing Pokemon take damage that sometimes doesn't make sense especially in online play, but that could be due to people using their in-game teams that have random combinations of EVs and IVs throwing off the damage.

Damage formula is based off of the one used in SWSH and SV rather than the altered version in LA.

 

[Rot8er_ConeX]

what's hardcoded and what's random about AZ's Floette? I got mine Modest, which I assume is a competitively good nature for her which is also thematically cohesive with her personality, so I wouldn't be surprised if her nature is hardcoded - same as the second bike dragon in ScaVio got hardcoded competitive natures tied to their aggressive personality (and the one the player starts with was hardcoded Quirky befitting its personality). But I also got four perfect IVs, which is usually more than Game Freak usually hardcodes but I could see them doing that on purpose because this game and Champions will probably be the only games where she's legal.

 

[Count Bleck]

Inquiry I had earlier: Curse stays on you until you swap out, even after the battle ends for PVE purposes. In PVP, if an opponent dies to Curse, Burn, or another hazardous status condition, is the point awarded to the Afflicter?

 

[Vinc2612]

This is not scientifically accurate but I tried my best to compare the AoE of my moves depending on the size of my Pokémon.

What I wanted to check:

• Do the size of my Pokémon change the area of the move?
• More specifically, does being from a different specie change anything?
• More specifically, does being an Alpha version change anything?

How to test:

• Take three Pokémon of different sizes knowing the same AoE move
• Find a spot with many crystals in a close radius
• Save, hit a crystal and see what I destroy
• Reset and hit the same crystal with the same move from the second Pokémon, see what I destroy
• Reset and hit the same crystal with the same move from the third Pokémon, see what I destroy

What could go wrong:

• The attack stat could matter. All three Pokémon will share the same attack stat
• Mastering the move could matter. All three Pokémon will master the move.
• Not hitting the exact same spot willmatter. This is where I'm not scientifically accurate, I cannot bypass this accurately, but I can at least try to diminish the risk
  • Fly will be the move of my choice, because hitting from above could help at ignoring the environment
  • The rooftops is a good place to try because the floor is tiled, in order to check where the Pokémon lands

That's how Hawlucha, regular Salamence and Alpha Salamence ended up being part of this experiment.

And... It looks like the size does matter. Only Alpha Salamence managed to hit those three crystals on the left side, all three, while landing on the same spot as regular Salamence (if not slightly further from the crystals). In all those pictures, the red-dotted tiles are the same, in order to see the position of landing more accurately.

Pictures

 

[hairyhead1]

Damage formula is based off of the one used in SWSH and SV rather than the altered version in LA.

I've barely scratched the surface of confirming this, but my tests are already getting damage rolls below the expected minimum.

I started testing against wild mons, but the damage being wrong made me suspicious.

Then in local communication match set to level 50 to make sure something weird about wild mons wasn't interfering, still ended up with too little damage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I originally just wanted to find the plus move multiplier and now I have way more questions

 

[Anubis]

I've barely scratched the surface of confirming this, but my tests are already getting damage rolls below the expected minimum.

I started testing against wild mons, but the damage being wrong made me suspicious.

Then in local communication match set to level 50 to make sure something weird about wild mons wasn't interfering, still ended up with too little damage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I originally just wanted to find the plus move multiplier and now I have way more questions

There are modifiers of "70" in this config I posted. Do they match your numbers?

 

[hairyhead1]

There are modifiers of "70" in this config I posted. Do they match your numbers?

The ones I have are less than 0.7 * the lowest damage roll, and less than the damage roll with 0.7 * move base power. If that is what you mean

 

[ralts_boy]

Probably one that lots of people have noticed, but EQ doesn't hit Dig in this game. Also Super Fang does less damage (I haven't done the math on that, maybe 25%?).
This might be a stupid question, but I see that moves have a cooldown stat, which is useful. What I really want to know for this game is the frame data (if that's the right word?) of the attack animations. For example, Skarmory can choose between Aerial Ace and Wing Attack. I think Aerial Ace comes out faster? but I'm not sure. Certain moves seem surprisingly fast, like Brick Break. This information would be useful when building movesets/teams because getting an attack off faster can mean preventing the opponent's attack.
Is this something that can be datamined, or is it something that has to be measured frame-by-frame in-game?

 

[Anubis]

I pushed real-time move data to our repository. This is the move table that is used for the real-time battles in LZA, as opposed to the regular move table that is used for turn-based battles. This new move table is where Nihil Light gets 200 base power.

https://github.com/projectpokemon/za-textport/tree/main/Raw
It should be in the personal_waza_param_array.json and waza_param_array.json.

I also added the battle config I posted a few days ago and another one.
These should be battle_player_damage.json and battle_setting.json.

 

[Vinc2612]

These are configurable battle parameters we extracted that would need to be understood:

A bit late to the party and probably stating many evidences, but let's trim the list and maybe someone will have an idea on the three remaining fields, as the whole data might be intimidating.

ProbableMapping

{
  "DamagePerMegaAura": 30,                        ???
  "DamagePerRandomAmplitude": 15,                Difference Minroll Maxroll
  "DamagePerTrainerBattle": 70,                    ???
  "DamagePerWildBattle": 70,                    ???
  "DamagePerWeatherAdvantage": 0,                Water moves in rain, but why zero?
  "DamagePerWeatherDisadvantage": 0,            Fire moves in rain, but why zero?
  "DamagePerCritical": 0,                        Critical hit but why zero?
  "DamagePerCriticalPlus": 0,                    Critical hit from a plus move, but why zero?
  "DamagePerTypeMatch": 0,                        STAB, but why zero?
  "DamagePerTypeMatchPlus": 0,                    STAB, but why zero?
  "DamagePerMamoruThroughPlus": 0,                Plus move through Protect, but why zero?
  "DamagePerTypeAff": {                            Type multiplier
    "PerType18": 15,                            Quad resistance (Electric move on Forest Cursed Ampharos), maybe "immunities" in Rogue Alpha
    "PerType14": 30,                            Double resistance
    "PerType12": 60,                            Resistance
    "PerType1": 100,                            Regular
    "PerType2": 200,                            Weakness
    "PerType4": 400,                            Double weakness
    "PerType8": 800                                Quad weakness (Ice move on Forest Cursed Garchomp)
  },
  "DamagePerTypeAffPlus": {                        Same for Plus move
    "PerType18": 18,
    "PerType14": 36,
    "PerType12": 72,
    "PerType1": 120,
    "PerType2": 260,
    "PerType4": 520,
    "PerType8": 1040
  },

  "DamagePerMegaTypeAff": {                        Same for Mega, might be unused
    "PerType18": 100,
    "PerType14": 100,
    "PerType12": 100,
    "PerType1": 100,
    "PerType2": 100,
    "PerType4": 63,
    "PerType8": 63
  },
  "DamagePerMegaTypeAffPlus": {                    Same for Mega Plus Move, might be unused
    "PerType18": 100,
    "PerType14": 100,
    "PerType12": 100,
    "PerType1": 100,
    "PerType2": 100,
    "PerType4": 63,
    "PerType8": 63
  },
  "ReflectorDamageCutRatio": 66,                Damages through Reflect
  "HikarinokabeDamageCutRatio": 66,                Damages through Light Screen
  "NeedleGuardDamageDemon": 0,                    Damage modifier for Spikes immunities
  "StealthRockDamageDemon": {                    Damage modifier for Stealth Rock depending on the typing
    "DemonType1": 8,
    "DemonType12": 16,
    "DemonType14": 32,
    "DemonType18": 32,
    "DemonType116": 32,
    "DemonType132": 32,
    "DemonType2": 6,
    "DemonType4": 4,
    "DemonType8": 4,
    "DemonType16": 4,
    "DemonType32": 4
  },
  "StealthRockDamageDemonPlus": {                Damage modifier for Stealth Rock Plus depending on the typing
    "DemonType1": 8,
    "DemonType12": 16,
    "DemonType14": 32,
    "DemonType18": 32,
    "DemonType116": 32,
    "DemonType132": 32,
    "DemonType2": 6,
    "DemonType4": 4,
    "DemonType8": 4,
    "DemonType16": 4,
    "DemonType32": 4
  },
  "CriticalRankRatio": [                    Critical Hit Ratio
    24,
    8,
    2,
    1
  ]
}

Which leaves:
"DamagePerMegaAura": 30
"DamagePerTrainerBattle": 70
"DamagePerWildBattle": 70

The former could be a 30% modifier on Wild Alpha Pokémon. They take so little damages and 30% could be the actual number, but I don't understand why would it be named "MegaAura", that's why I still put it in the "not sure list".
I have no idea about the other two. It could be a global nerf to the existing formula, in order to make the battles a little longer.

Oh also why are so many values at 0? Is there something else for STAB, weather, critical hit damages, plus through protect? There must be.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Probably one that lots of people have noticed, but EQ doesn't hit Dig in this game. Also Super Fang does less damage (I haven't done the math on that, maybe 25%?).

I've had a Super Fang deal 43 damage against 125 HP, which is consistent with there being a 70% multiplier on the "correct" figure of 62 (so in effect it deals 35% of the target's remaining HP).

 

[mattgcn]

Looking at the new arrays Anubis posted. The Real Time data table has the 247 entries corresponding to usable moves, plus about 400 more that likely represent various moves used by bosses and non-Pokemon enemies.

The personal table is interesting though. Moves have a minimum of two entries on the table, up to 3, where the values that differ are ExtensionType, Power and IsMamoruEnable (Protect-related). For most cases, the Power value is lower on the third entry EXCEPT for:

• Rock Smash (which is increased from 40 to 90)
• Core Enforcer (which is increased from 100 to 200, Nihil Light still has its own entry so it's not that)
• Aqua Jet (which is increased from 30 to 45)
• Liquidation, which is 85 on all three entries
• Quick Attack (30 -> 40)
• Take Down (90 ->100)
• Twister (40 -> 45)
• Whirlpool (20 -> 40)

Flamethrower, conversely, goes from 90 to 4. Additionally there's a flag "IsSick" that only applies to the third instance of Sludge Bomb, likely related to the Aron quest where you Sludge Bomb some metal, the only use of the move in the overworld. This is making me think that the third entries are possibly related to overworld function in some way.

 

[Count Bleck]

This is not scientifically accurate but I tried my best to compare the AoE of my moves depending on the size of my Pokémon.

What I wanted to check:

• Do the size of my Pokémon change the area of the move?
• More specifically, does being from a different specie change anything?
• More specifically, does being an Alpha version change anything?

How to test:

• Take three Pokémon of different sizes knowing the same AoE move
• Find a spot with many crystals in a close radius
• Save, hit a crystal and see what I destroy
• Reset and hit the same crystal with the same move from the second Pokémon, see what I destroy
• Reset and hit the same crystal with the same move from the third Pokémon, see what I destroy

What could go wrong:

• The attack stat could matter. All three Pokémon will share the same attack stat
• Mastering the move could matter. All three Pokémon will master the move.
• Not hitting the exact same spot willmatter. This is where I'm not scientifically accurate, I cannot bypass this accurately, but I can at least try to diminish the risk
  • Fly will be the move of my choice, because hitting from above could help at ignoring the environment
  • The rooftops is a good place to try because the floor is tiled, in order to check where the Pokémon lands

That's how Hawlucha, regular Salamence and Alpha Salamence ended up being part of this experiment.

And... It looks like the size does matter. Only Alpha Salamence managed to hit those three crystals on the left side, all three, while landing on the same spot as regular Salamence (if not slightly further from the crystals). In all those pictures, the red-dotted tiles are the same, in order to see the position of landing more accurately.

Pictures

View attachment 781046
View attachment 781047
View attachment 781048

This is pretty great information to have laid out, though it may only apply to physical or AOE moves around the target. Is it possible to run this experiment to see if it affects AOE ranged moves like Blizzard or Heat Wave? Size does effect hitboxes, but im unsure if long ranged moves are also effected.

 

[Mad Ram]

So something I don't think I've seen anything solid on which might be a bit important, how exactly does the speed stat work? More specifically, how much speed do you need to reduce cooldowns by a specific amount? I'm sure the sweats lovely people on ranked will want to know what speed stats are needed to get the best results while also maximizing bulk.