• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Research Legends: Z-A Mechanics Research

I've been working on the whole damage formula for a few weeks now. I wrote it up on Twitter here.

The highlights:
  • Stat up is 1.5x, and stat down is 0.67x. This is rounded half up at 0.5.
  • "DamagePerMegaAura" is a 30% damage modifier for attacking a Rogue Mega Pokémon with a non-Plus Move.
  • "DamagePerMegaTypeAff" and "DamagePerMegaTypeAffPlus" modify 4x and 8x effective damage to 63% versus Rogue Megas and Zygarde.
  • The 30% and 63% modifiers above can stack to 18.9% if you use a 4x or 8x effective non-Plus Move vs a Rogue Mega.
  • Only weather I found that does anything is Rain. This gives water moves 1.2x damage and fire moves 0.8x damage.
  • Sneak Attacks in the Z-A Royale deal extra damage by forcing the attack to be a critical hit.
  • "DamagePerTypeAff" is the non-Plus Move effectiveness table. Plus Moves increase damage by using the "DamagePerTypeAffPlus" table instead.
  • As I stated before, Rogue Megas use ExtentionType 2 moves multiple times so they can hit multiple opponents.
  • Rogue Megas hit through immunities with a 0.3 effectiveness modifier.
  • Rogue Mega data is posted here. This shows how their stats are amplified (usually HP). Their moves are scripted in some way because the moves in the encounters file don't match.
  • Plus Moves go through Protect and Plus Protect. The damage is reduced to 0.25x.
  • The reason wild alpha Pokémon are super strong is because this "StrengthenValue" config applies to ALL their stats. They have 2x HP, attacks, and defenses. (I did not check their speed but presume it's also 2x). When you save over them and reboot, they lose the 2x bonus to everything except for HP.
  • The Ange Floette flowers are weird props that let you hit them. They have 5 Def and Special Def, are typeless, and have 25k HP each. They apparently have no weight and take 120 BP Heat Crashes. Their attacks are scripted and do not go through the damage formula.
I've posted the disassembly with 15 different gdb logs from testing on my Gists. This can be used to check that damage calculators are rounding properly. A lot of these steps are now doing float math and then cast to unsigned int, so you would need to make sure each modifier is being applied correctly. The damage modifiers in particular appear to all be multiplied together as floats and applied once to the damage, rather than individually being applied and rounded down between each step.
 
Anubis said:
I've been working on the whole damage formula for a few weeks now. I wrote it up on Twitter here.

The highlights:
  • Stat up is 1.5x, and stat down is 0.67x. This is rounded half up at 0.5.
  • "DamagePerMegaAura" is a 30% damage modifier for attacking a Rogue Mega Pokémon with a non-Plus Move.
  • "DamagePerMegaTypeAff" and "DamagePerMegaTypeAffPlus" modify 4x and 8x effective damage to 63% versus Rogue Megas and Zygarde.
  • The 30% and 63% modifiers above can stack to 18.9% if you use a 4x or 8x effective non-Plus Move vs a Rogue Mega.
  • Only weather I found that does anything is Rain. This gives water moves 1.2x damage and fire moves 0.8x damage.
  • Sneak Attacks in the Z-A Royale deal extra damage by forcing the attack to be a critical hit.
  • "DamagePerTypeAff" is the non-Plus Move effectiveness table. Plus Moves increase damage by using the "DamagePerTypeAffPlus" table instead.
  • As I stated before, Rogue Megas use ExtentionType 2 moves multiple times so they can hit multiple opponents.
  • Rogue Megas hit through immunities with a 0.3 effectiveness modifier.
  • Rogue Mega data is posted here. This shows how their stats are amplified (usually HP). Their moves are scripted in some way because the moves in the encounters file don't match.
  • Plus Moves go through Protect and Plus Protect. The damage is reduced to 0.25x.
  • The reason wild alpha Pokémon are super strong is because this "StrengthenValue" config applies to ALL their stats. They have 2x HP, attacks, and defenses. (I did not check their speed but presume it's also 2x). When you save over them and reboot, they lose the 2x bonus to everything except for HP.
  • The Ange Floette flowers are weird props that let you hit them. They have 5 Def and Special Def, are typeless, and have 25k HP each. They apparently have no weight and take 120 BP Heat Crashes. Their attacks are scripted and do not go through the damage formula.
I've posted the disassembly with 15 different gdb logs from testing on my Gists. This can be used to check that damage calculators are rounding properly. A lot of these steps are now doing float math and then cast to unsigned int, so you would need to make sure each modifier is being applied correctly. The damage modifiers in particular appear to all be multiplied together as floats and applied once to the damage, rather than individually being applied and rounded down between each step.
Click to expand...
Hello, I have written a fork of the damage calculator to accurately simulate PvE calcs for this, including sample sets for easy calcing against the various boss fights in the game (namely rogue megas and zygarde): https://krisxv.github.io/ingame-calc/

It also has sample sets and accurately simulates PvP; if there are bugs, report them in the issues tab for the github repository: https://github.com/krisxv/ingame-calc/issues
 
Many people were probably already aware of this, but I couldn't find a post about it, so I'm putting it here for reference:

Multihit moves (other than Water Shuriken) get an extra hit when used as a Plus move, while still getting the 1.2x or 1.3x bonus to damage. This brings Bullet Seed, Pin Missile, and Rock Blast up to a combined 90BP, assuming you land all 6 hits.

Video proof: https://imgur.com/a/wTQJHtn

Damage calcs from the end of the video:
252+ Atk Excadrill Rock Blast+ vs. Lvl 54 0 HP 12 IVs / 0 Def 12 IVs Lucario on a critical hit: 18-22 (12.3 - 15%)
252+ Atk Excadrill Rock Blast+ (5 hits) vs. Lvl 54 0 HP 12 IVs / 0 Def 12 IVs Lucario: 60-70 (41 - 47.9%)
Combined average damage rolls: 86
Actual damage: 87
 
Is there an updated repository of the moves for the DLC?

I'd like to continue analyzing the Waza fields to see if these can further categorize move archetypes.
 
Some abilities are in the game, like with Mimikyu's Disguise etc. But here's another: Mega Raichu X seems to have an ability that boosts its Attack when it hits Volt Tackle specifically. No other move does this from what I've seen so far. Raichu Y doesn't get this boost either.
 
Eriorguez said:
Do we have Tatsugiri-Dodonzo synergy of any sorts going on?
Click to expand...
Apparently we do, actually, according to Joe Serebii. From a video i saw on the evil formerly-a-bird website, it seems that a pseudo-commander effect auto-activates if you send out Dozo with a Tatsugiri somewhere on your team, or something.

1765554970375.png

It's not implemented perfectly, but hey, it's there.
(I'd like to think that this is Dondozo going "ooh, my turn, my turn!" and trying to cram itself in Tatsugiri's mouth like a dog that doesn't realize it's too big to sit in your lap anymore)
 
Last edited:
Aura Flare Riolu said:
Some abilities are in the game, like with Mimikyu's Disguise etc. But here's another: Mega Raichu X seems to have an ability that boosts its Attack when it hits Volt Tackle specifically. No other move does this from what I've seen so far. Raichu Y doesn't get this boost either.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Raichu Y does get something with Thunder (or maybe Thunderbolt); i felt like it "double casted" Thunder in the quest battle against it. However it was a very hectic battle, so it might have been a mistake on my part. Still seems worth checking out?

Fivepoint said:
Apparently we do, actually, according to Joe Serebii. From a video i saw on the evil formerly-a-bird website, it seems that a pseudo-commander effect auto-activates if you send out Dozo with a Tatsugiri somewhere on your team, or something.

View attachment 792664
It's not implemented perfectly, but hey, it's there.
(I'd like to think that this is Dondozo going "ooh, my turn, my turn!" and trying to cram itself in Tatsugiri's mouth like a dog that doesn't realize it's too big to sit in your lap anymore)
Click to expand...
A testing request for this is if Order Up changes any based on if you use the Mega Tatsugiris
 
Aura Flare Riolu said:
Some abilities are in the game, like with Mimikyu's Disguise etc. But here's another: Mega Raichu X seems to have an ability that boosts its Attack when it hits Volt Tackle specifically. No other move does this from what I've seen so far. Raichu Y doesn't get this boost either.
Click to expand...
Is it specifically Volt Tackle or is it any recoil move? Cause Raichu gets Wild Charge in ZA and that seems worth testing.
 
AztecCroc said:
Is it specifically Volt Tackle or is it any recoil move? Cause Raichu gets Wild Charge in ZA and that seems worth testing.
Click to expand...
Checked Wild Charge since I happened to have Raichu X out: It didn't do anything special.


And incidentally I double checked Thunderbolt & Thunder on Raichu Y and it was normal, so the battle must have just been a little chaotic to follow.
 
Skewtr said:
I want to see if these Waza fields can be used to comprehensively classify the move archetypes. In Ranked, it's become the meta to run Heat Wave over Flamethrower, because the latter can get blocked by a bench or can go over a smaller target's head if too close. The move archetype is therefore key in determining whether or not using an Alpha is optimal and for moveset synergy.

Playing around with my spreadsheet, I was kinda able to devise these archetypes. This is not complete, and I'm pretty sure there are some additional holes that can be filled in.

PlayWazaMoveType basically categorizes moves into:
  • 0 -- self-targeting status moves (for these moves, this analysis is pretty irrelevant)
  • 1 -- short-range moves
  • 3 -- long-range moves
SpawnOrigin seem to represent where the attack will originate from-- the user's location, the target's location, etc; italics are values that only apply to short-range moves.
  • 0 -- default behavior
  • 1 -- AOE around target
  • 2 -- user blinks to target location
  • 4 -- AOE around the user
  • 5 -- AOE around the target, some with persisting effect (not 100% sure how it's different from 1)
  • 6 -- Disappear, then grounded attack
  • 7 -- Disappear, then aerial attack

SpawnLocator appears to dictate how a move will behave.
  • origin-- appears to be the default.
    • With SpawnOrigin = 0, this represents a lot of full-body attacks
  • eff_center01 -- circular AOE
  • eff_front01 -- attack directly in front (short-range only)
  • eff_rangeattack02 -- projectile attack, in front of user
  • eff_face01, eff_directionattack01, and eff_headcenter01 are all unique to just one move; I can't precisely determine how they're different from other SpawnLocators within the same SpawnOrigin

Click to expand...

An update to this original move archetype analysis, now that we have a lot of new moves with the DLC update. I haven't finished my Dex yet, so haven't gotten a chance to see all these moves myself. But there are a lot more categories/combinations now, including long-range contact moves.

I'll put an updated table here, in case anyone wants to take a stab at it.

EDIT: In addition to Ranked battles, another benefit of archetypes is getting around Hyperspace's horrible pathing. For Mewtwo, I switched back to Psychic from Psystrike, due to the latter being a projectile that can be blocked by scaffolding when trying to hit a floating Poke Ball. Grounded moves like Earthquake and Stone Edge are also pretty terrible for clearing quests.


1765694846146.png
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top