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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
i guess we gonna have to ban mega camerupt now
Thank god. It was fun for a bit, but yeah, it was just kinda brainlessly easy to slap onto teams lmao. Zero downside to using it. Definitely a lot healthier for a meta.
It's always fun to have the "guys, this time for SURE Genesect will be legal" part of a meta. I'm glad ZAOU got to have this.
I think we not need to ban genesect meanwhile any viable fire type neutral to rocks or with hazard clearer o boots exist, also gyarados, base heatran, Waters resistent to bug, also the choice scarft variant is very easy bloked by any Steel type now that haa to predict to use fire coverage, and life orb is suprising slow for a fast threat mon (has like 32x speed, compared with mons with 350 and above)
Scarf chomp puts in work
When will we have Legends Z-A Ubers mate
not like we don't have an excess of 151 and 153 speed mons to ban
not like we don't have an excess of 151 and 153 speed mons to ban
Nice Genesect tradition we have going on. I think Landorus-I has also always this happening to it.
Bans are virtually permanent and we will not be re-looking at any banned mon for the time being (regrettably #freemygoat).
Legends: Z-A UU when :3
I expect a few of subsequent bans after this for mons like Garchomp Z, Mega Bax, Ape, and maybe even Lucario Z because they are all hard to counter especially after set up, where you likely have to negotiate a mon just to KO them. I can’t say the same for genesect who does have effective counters like talon, rotom heat, volcanion, heatran, and even keldeo. Genesect is very strong but I think there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to this (slowly turning into Ubers) meta.
I think people are being very hyperbolic about the repercussions of the Genesect ban. We’re lucky to begin with being able to play with these UBER level threats. All this is reigning in the absurd power level of the format. The format is not gonna die with one ban, and if it does it deserves to die to begin with.
This is a for-fun pet mod with completely speculative Mega abilities, not an official tier and not something meant to last once Gen 10 releases. Trying to “balance” it by banning Pokémon just feels pointless. It doesn’t protect anything, it only kills the fun and pushes players away from the mod. If the format is already unofficial and temporary, over-policing it makes no sense.
Yeah tbh this feels really weird. Deleting a glue mon in a temporary literal fanfic meta when we probably only have a month of it being relevant at all feels super weird.
Genesects role as glue here carries more weight here than discussions about like keeping volcarona in SV OU. Because this isn't a real meta and it won't exist the second champions releases. Maybe genesect actually is too overbearing and what it brings isn't worth the trouble. I acknowledge this as I know there's people playing it more than me.
But repeating smogon dogma in response to people questioning the ban is so gross. We actually do want to glue this thing together.
Because genesect was checking the cool new toys that make this fanfic into something people want to play. Ban it then ban them and interest in this dies sooner than it would have.
Right??? If genesect is that bad okay got it. But saying if it creates problems we'll ban those too! Doesn't work the same here. Because this is only a thing to use those new things
I'm surprised to see people suddenly proclaiming about how much of an important glue Genesect was to the meta now that it's banned when nobody was saying this beforehand
When was the last time you participated in a Pet Mod? 2015???
Pet Mods treat themselves as serious tiers and have done so for YEARS. The only difference is this the only Pet Mod in a very long time to gain enough attention to also have the weight of an official tier behind it .
If you don't like the fact that a Smogon Metagame follows Smogon policy feel free to play elsewhere or start your own Pet Mod which isn't as stringent - you are well within your rights to do so
The Bug is actually banned. Just curious, how many of us actually think Genesect is ban worthy? Seems mixed.
im glad Genesect was sent to a farm up north, very obnoxious Pokemon to fight. Anyways here's the semi-weekly wall of text coming from God's most hardstuck 1100 player, but i am still having a lot of fun which is the main thing with this tier.
take whatever i say with a grain of salt, feel free to correct me on anything im wrong/unrealistic about. Also i dont suppose we care that much about giving megas fitting abilities so long as it isnt super "out there" and also makes it balanced.
(mega) i'm not gonna lie this thing with Regenerator is really obnoxious. It has almost no reason to not switch into non-Fire types and non-Flamethrower Clefable. Great defensive typing, absurd defensive stats, and good movepool to abuse all these qualities (U-Turn, Sucker Punch and First Impression in particular) makes him feel quite restricting on the teambuilder in a similar vein to Genesect. While Genesect's scarf+U-Turn sets make it quite a tall task to revenge kill, Mega Goli's bulk makes it an outright Sisyphean task to KO. And its not exactly lacking in power either, where usually 1 or 2 Swords Dances is enough to allow it to stop all attempts to revenge kill with Sucker, and otherwise take out anything else with Iron Head since i find that anything that can OHKO/2HKO it gets Iron Head into oblivion. Regenerator allows Goli to come in and do as I said many times throughout a game, and its infuriating. I would even go as far to say that Annihilape (and Genesect when it was legal) is the only reason why these teams aren't dominating in a similar way that Skarm/Clef/Garchomp teams did.
I'm not sure what other ability would be balanced for it. Tinted Lens could turn it into Ultra Instinct Lokix, Tough Claws already exists on 5 megas, and of course, the pile of abilities that do nothing for Mega's like Long Reach and Sniper. The only abilities I could think of that MIGHT help it define itself without making it oppressive is Heatproof. Heatproof, while leaving it only x2 weak to Fire, makes it a lot easier to chip down during a game, limiting the amount of oppurtunities it has to setup/force something out. It may also be worth trying Weak Armor, but i'm not confident in it because after a Weak Armor boost, it can outspeed even Talonflame at max speed investment.
(mega) Okay, ive had my fun with this guy. Now its time to address him. Adaptability makes Mega Golurk an absolute NIGHTMARE to fight in Trick Room. STAB Poltergeist allows it to OHKO, if not 2HKO most of the tier, and Close Combat deals with most Normal types that stand against it. Earthquake is just a generally strong move, with obvious exceptions. I've also seen people start to talk about running Rock Polish because after a Rock Polish, it outspeeds the Z-Megas at max speed investment. Giving it Analytic would force it to work with its low base Speed and nerf Trick Room teams and potential Rock Polish sets without completely neutering its power.
im still conflicted on ape, but im leaning on the side of ban. It can take many hits as its known for, but its also probably the reason why fatter teams aren't nearly as good right now, since Ape sits on these teams, which i do appreciate given how many Skarm/Clef/Chomp teams that were played pre-DLC. It also provides an alternative form of spin blocking to Gholdengo, and unlike Genesect, usually has 3 sets: Bulk Up/Taunt, AV U-Turn, or Scarf Final Gambit. Unfortunately, its offensive power means that it can be very difficult to switch into, and ive also seen other sets pop up from time to time such as Rest-o-Chesto, so it might have potential to expand its influence in the teambuilder more to the point of being too constricting. okay just kill this guy fr
ok bye
take whatever i say with a grain of salt, feel free to correct me on anything im wrong/unrealistic about. Also i dont suppose we care that much about giving megas fitting abilities so long as it isnt super "out there" and also makes it balanced.
(mega) i'm not gonna lie this thing with Regenerator is really obnoxious. It has almost no reason to not switch into non-Fire types and non-Flamethrower Clefable. Great defensive typing, absurd defensive stats, and good movepool to abuse all these qualities (U-Turn, Sucker Punch and First Impression in particular) makes him feel quite restricting on the teambuilder in a similar vein to Genesect. While Genesect's scarf+U-Turn sets make it quite a tall task to revenge kill, Mega Goli's bulk makes it an outright Sisyphean task to KO. And its not exactly lacking in power either, where usually 1 or 2 Swords Dances is enough to allow it to stop all attempts to revenge kill with Sucker, and otherwise take out anything else with Iron Head since i find that anything that can OHKO/2HKO it gets Iron Head into oblivion. Regenerator allows Goli to come in and do as I said many times throughout a game, and its infuriating. I would even go as far to say that Annihilape (and Genesect when it was legal) is the only reason why these teams aren't dominating in a similar way that Skarm/Clef/Garchomp teams did.I'm not sure what other ability would be balanced for it. Tinted Lens could turn it into Ultra Instinct Lokix, Tough Claws already exists on 5 megas, and of course, the pile of abilities that do nothing for Mega's like Long Reach and Sniper. The only abilities I could think of that MIGHT help it define itself without making it oppressive is Heatproof. Heatproof, while leaving it only x2 weak to Fire, makes it a lot easier to chip down during a game, limiting the amount of oppurtunities it has to setup/force something out. It may also be worth trying Weak Armor, but i'm not confident in it because after a Weak Armor boost, it can outspeed even Talonflame at max speed investment.
(mega) Okay, ive had my fun with this guy. Now its time to address him. Adaptability makes Mega Golurk an absolute NIGHTMARE to fight in Trick Room. STAB Poltergeist allows it to OHKO, if not 2HKO most of the tier, and Close Combat deals with most Normal types that stand against it. Earthquake is just a generally strong move, with obvious exceptions. I've also seen people start to talk about running Rock Polish because after a Rock Polish, it outspeeds the Z-Megas at max speed investment. Giving it Analytic would force it to work with its low base Speed and nerf Trick Room teams and potential Rock Polish sets without completely neutering its power. ok bye
It was. It was broken in a field of broken, which probably made people perceive Genesect as being fine.
Rule of thumb when unbanning Ubers is if it got substantially nerfed.
Zamazenta-H got nerfed in Gen 9 with lower stats and Dauntless Shield being once per battle.
Cinderace got nerfed with Libero being once per switch-in
Darkrai would have probably been rebanned if Sleep Clause wasn't updated to just ban sleep moves, which also nerfed it.
Very few things in Smogon history got unbanned without being nerfed first. Only thing I can think of are Gen 4 Latias, Gen 5 Latios, and Deoxys-S/D. The latter 2 being extremely controversial and people wanting both banned too.
I'm confused why people are suddenly acting like the concept of bans in this tier is terrible and unfounded when it's been a thing the whole time? If the argument is "don't ban genesect because this is supposed to be an unserious/for fun meta/there is no Uber tier/bans are bad" then shouldn't that logic apply to the already banned megas like Alakazam, blastoise, or magearna? I don't think so many people would enjoy that if it were to happen....
Now the argument that genescet particularly shouldn't be banned because it's not broken enough/"holds the tier together" or whatever I can at least understand though I disagree. I feel like genesect just was way to strong and versatile and had few counters, while countering everything else and was on practically every team which is annoying. But besides isn't the usual rule of thumb on Smogon "we don't allow broken things just to check other broken things"? If genescet was broken, then I don't think it should stay just to check other broken mons if anything those will just be banned
Now the argument that genescet particularly shouldn't be banned because it's not broken enough/"holds the tier together" or whatever I can at least understand though I disagree. I feel like genesect just was way to strong and versatile and had few counters, while countering everything else and was on practically every team which is annoying. But besides isn't the usual rule of thumb on Smogon "we don't allow broken things just to check other broken things"? If genescet was broken, then I don't think it should stay just to check other broken mons if anything those will just be banned