Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[Swis_Chris]

I am really hating the lack of good Grass types in this meta. Rotom Wash, Dondozo and even Swampert have become massive threats because so little can counter them. I miss my Rillaboom

I agree, especially with my favorite mon Chesnaught. I don’t think Mega-Chesnaught will likely get grassy terrain, but this will definitely be a fun pick that will increase longevity and lets Ches use priority grassy glide too. I used it in Aim’s most recent tournament and went the farthest I’ve ever gotten, but with bulletproof, most of the time it’s like Chesnaught doesn’t have an ability. Honestly Chesnaught isn’t doing too good and really needs a buff, my ideas aside from terrain are stamina or filter.

 

[Ostenberg]

I agree, especially with my favorite mon Chesnaught. I don’t think Mega-Chesnaught will likely get grassy terrain, but this will definitely be a fun pick that will increase longevity and lets Ches use priority grassy glide too. I used it in Aim’s most recent tournament and went the farthest I’ve ever gotten, but with bulletproof, most of the time it’s like Chesnaught doesn’t have an ability. Honestly Chesnaught isn’t doing too good and really needs a buff, my ideas aside from terrain are stamina or filter.

Bruh Chestnaught is also my goat but when exactly do you use grass moves on it? The standard set is leech seed, body press, iron defense, synthesis.
Sure it may get grassy terrain officially but we are currently playing the pet mod that doesn't give it that ability.
Also your comment is basically about glazing chestnaught instead of addressing the "lack of good Grass type" issue, just a chestnaught and mega Scolvilla in the meta is not fixing that.

 

[Swis_Chris]

Bruh Chestnaught is also my goat but when exactly do you use grass moves on it? The standard set is leech seed, body press, iron defense, synthesis.
Sure it may get grassy terrain officially but we are currently playing the pet mod that doesn't give it that ability.
Also your comment is basically about glazing chestnaught instead of addressing the "lack of good Grass type" issue, just a chestnaught and mega Scolvilla in the meta is not fixing that.

There’s SD Grass Glide, but whats really good is the opportunity with a heatran defensive core and passive healing which is why I think it’s worth suggesting for them to change it’s ability to, but stamina and filter are good options as well. As for the other grass megas, Megaganium with triage sounds good but with that it wants draining kiss, and it just doesn’t have any really good boosting moves, I don’t know what other ability would help it. Sceptiles ability likely won’t be changed, Scovillains problem isn’t its ability but its stat spread, specifically its speed. Victreebel wasn’t that bad with triage because it could make good use of strength sap and giga drain, but Vic just isn’t worth the mega slot and I’ve seen amoonguss here and there so I’m not too surprised, it could go for progress with corrosion but I don’t see it being good either of these abilities in this meta.

 

[Sawkasm]

Been having a lot of fun with the new megas, but I think several need a buff. Meta is in a decent spot overall, but the lack of viable megas and mons overall makes it difficult to come up with different teams, and I think buffing bad megas will give us a much more fun experience.

I'm generally choosing abilities that make these mons competitively viable. How much they fit for each pokemon I'm still considering, but it's a smaller factor.

Grassy Surge: Turns this into a legit threat as it has grassy glide while also enabling potential grassy terrain shenanigans with teams.
Fluffy: Giving it more bulk turns into a scary attacker which also doesn't get scared out as much. Also it looks fluffy
Thick Fat: This mon is pretty bad right now and ice scales doesn't help it much. Resisting fire I think will help it a good bit
Pranster: Right now there's no reasons to using mega clef. Prankster would be a great buff to it, and I don't think it would be too strong given it's now rocks weak and uses up your mega slot
Adapability: Let's just make this guy a nuke

A lot more that need to be improved ofc

Please don`t make crab ten times worse, it`s in a decent spot rn lol

 

[4G3NT CROISSANT]

How about Pyroar? Has anyone else used this besides me?

Pyroar (M) @ Pyroarite
Ability: Unnerve
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower

Feels like Zard-Y with a slightly better offensive profile. Only lacks Focus Blast.

 

[Cuddly]

How about Pyroar? Has anyone else used this besides me?
View attachment 797333
Pyroar (M) @ Pyroarite
Ability: Unnerve
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower

Feels like Zard-Y with a slightly better offensive profile. Only lacks Focus Blast.

252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pyroar-Mega Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Let’s hope that GameFreak decides to redistribute Mega Pyroar’s stats so it’s not wasting that 20 in Atk.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Is it wrong to say that mega darkrai isn't bad it's just kind of.. disappointing?
It plays so much differently then regular darkrai, but it almost never uses that INSANE 165 base special attack
I honestly wish they just gave this guy like base 95 or base 100 speed over the atrocious tier they have it suffer in right now.

It's not even bad, I just hope in the actual game it gets some good ability to make up for what they did to it. Because if it keeps bad dreams it'll honestly just be obscure.
In the mainstream games, if gambit is allowed, darkrai will probably end up being useless besides being a gimmick for surprise factor or trick room I guess (since regular specs/lorb darkrai will be stronger and faster)

 

[Sulfurian]

Could give Meganium Wind Rider, the flowers absorb wind moves and gives it some good immunity to moves against it, physical sets taking advantage of +1. Bulletproof is huge to get immune to sludge bomb, and could say the flowers act like a neck shield.

 

[R.para ti]

For anyone that want ban magearna, just use Gholdengo, Heatran, F-otom (For volt switch variant), and any Steel Type in general

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

For anyone that want ban magearna, just use Gholdengo, Heatran, F-otom (For volt switch variant), and any Steel Type in general

Mag has honestly been pretty manageable in this meta

 

[4G3NT CROISSANT]

For anyone that want ban magearna, just use Gholdengo, Heatran, F-otom (For volt switch variant), and any Steel Type in general

I think the issue people see isn't that you can wall it, because aura sphere at +1 beats most steel types other than Ghold, but it is the fact that you HAVE to do that at all that makes people mad at Magearna. You must have something to counter it, otherwise you are not playing serious. Plus, Pod walls it too. (So maybe just use one of the 300 steel types in the tier?)

 

[Cuddly]

Guys, I think we need to give up on Mega Meganium. There is no ability that makes sense and would make Meganium good in ZA (excluding op shit like Wonder Guard or Shadow Tag). Plus some of these suggestions are straight up awful.
I don’t even get why so many people are so heavily invested in Meganium’s viability and also ignore a bunch of other Megas who honestly need the help more. Like you know, Emboar and Feraligatr. Some can’t be helped like Malamar, but still.

Speaking of

Ability: Dragon’s Maw -> Sheer Force
Sheer Force is Feraligatr’s bread and butter. It’s what seperates Feraligatr from Pokemon like Dragonite or Baxcalibur, who are normally superior at Dragon Dancing, and Sword Dance+Scale Shot in Bax’s case. That is inspite of Mega Feraligatr taking up a Mega Slot. Dragon’s Maw itself isn’t all that great either. You boost only your Dragon STAB and that’s basically only Scale Shot and Outrage. Additionally, Pokemon like Magearna, Mega Golisopod, Corviknight, and Melmetal that are either immune or tank Dragon hits easily.
With Sheer Force, its presence is far pronounced. You effectively become as strong as LO Gatr, but with the benefits of being bulkier, not draining your HP when you don’t use a Sheer Force boosted move, and your opponent can’t remove your item either. The lack of LO recoil is pretty nice since you can run moves like Aqua Jet and Earthquake without worrying about KOing yourself or bringing yourself into KO ranges.
I don’t see Mega Feraligatr becoming amazing overnight. Its speed tier is actually unfortunate since +1 isn’t outspeeding Mega Greninja, much less the Z Megas and Zeraora, but it’d certainly be way better off.


Ability: Supreme Overloard -> Water Absorb.
Thematically, Emboar is a pig, which is often cooked in boiling water, and the pig absorbs the water to be all nice and juicy.
Mechanically I think Water Absorb suits Mega Emboar better.
Supreme Overlord is nice, but you end up with a significantly worse Kingambit. No SD, no items, STABless Sucker Punch is pretty bad for its Kingambit larp among other things.
Water Absorb would be really useful on Emboar. You remove Emboar’s Water weakness and make yourself immune to Water type attacks. That improves Emboar’s match-ups against multiple Water types like Volcanion, Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, and Tatsugiri, and lets you pivot into something like Slowbro to threaten it out. This also makes Emboar an excellent partner for Ground types. Fire resisting Ice and Grass already, than lets you also switch into Water type attacks too, which even on neutral targets like Garchomp would help avoid Scald burns.
And as an added bonus, you can heal off some of that recoil damage from Flare Blitz and Wild Charge.

 

[rahuk]

all the steels except 2 fear that random fighting attack. so it's a choice of a) switch in the steel type and stop mag from setting up but risk getting a mon nuked for no good reason, or b) don't switch in, try and scout or outplay it some other way, get set up on and by the time you realize there's no aura sphere your steel gets folded by +3 280 BP stored power

ghold and pod don't take as much, but don't do that much either. ghold especially can only watch as the SpD goes up and up cause even a make it rain isn't doing very much. then it gets melted by stored power. Pod can probably win a 1v1 but it can't take too many stored powers if it comes in later, but okay let's count it. Any other mon with non-stab SE coverage risks activating weakness policy and dying on the spot. or the Mag just runs VS and pivots out of your check. you never know

so for checks we have encore sableye (needs to get a switch right, mogged by any dark type), other encorers who can get outsped if they come in too late, golisopod (your mega slot), trick users (you just need to call it out once and the strategy fails), and other magearna (...)

the issue is that you can play amazing for the whole game but if you don't play optimally on the first 3 turns after mag comes out, you lose, because it gets special moxie on top of everything. or, if you don't preserve the checks at full health, you lose.

 

[Magcargo]

If Mega Ability changes are being considered....

Mega-Y: I think this mon's ability should be nerfed to Lightning Rod. I do not think the grounds in the tier are well-equipped to handle this Pokemon at all outside of running Scarf sets given its wide coverage with moves like Alluring Voice, Surf, and Grass Knot. That said, I most likely am in the minority of viewing this Pokemon as a potential issue - I'm curious on what other's think.

- So I will still maintain that this Mega's ability to ignore Trick is very nice on Calm Mind sets, but Serene Grace was also not the way to go for the ability imo. I really liked Kibo's suggestion of giving this Pokemon Delta Stream, as that ability isn't overpowered, and would give some interesting trade offs to the Calm Mind set, canceling other weather effects, letting Clef leverage its increased defense to work better against threats like Baxcalibur without being weak to its STAB, and giving it better defensive MUs against stuff like Garchomp and Krookidile in exchange for the gamebreaking utility Magic Guard brings. That said, this is also a signature legendary ability specifically tied to Rayquaza, so I do not think it is likely Clefable will get it. It may be boring, but I think just giving it one of its base abilities in Magic Guard or Unaware would likely suffice - preferably Unaware since this would give it a cool trade off where it can more easily win Calm Mind wars at the expense of being vulnerable to status. I even think Regenerator could be considered here.

- This Pokemon is cool and I think Soul Heart is an interesting ability that also fits it, but it is not enough imo for this Pokemon to work given that its Special Attack is a fair deal lower than other Megas and its speed is only adequate - with its coverage also not being all-encompassing enough to make up for these weaknesses. If we want to improve its offensive capabilities, No Guard is the way to go, giving it perfectly accurate Hurricanes and Fire Blasts to nail most of the Fairies and Steels, with Zap Cannon being an additional cheese factor it can rely on to break through different Pokemon. If we want to take this Pokemon in a more defensive direction - either Regenerator, Magic Guard, or Natural Cure feel the most fitting - if a bit boring. I personally think Magic Guard would be the best since it would let this Pokemon act as a pretty decent Defogger with a set of something like Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Roost, Defog - while also not being weak to pursuit. Watch out for Clefable though.

- Dragon's Maw is a pretty fitting ability on this Pokemon, but it could be better. Personally I don't want this Pokemon to be better since this format doesn't have the greatest water resist and dealing with a DD cheeser with 165 base attack seems annoying. That said, if we needed to improve it, just keeping its base Sheer Force or giving it Tough Claws to also boosts its Dragon STAB would be anough. I think Sheer Force + Dragon STAB is enough - even without the damage boost - since that nails most of the usual Water resist for good damage.

- There are talks about this mon being overtuned, which I am 50/50 on. I actually like Earth Eater on it to check threats like Baxcalibur and Garchomp. That said, if we needed to change it, I think just giving it the base Flash Fire would be enough, though it would also just completely gut its usage since there isn't much reason to use it over base Heatran. Another interesting ability - that would also be a bit unlikely - is Unaware which would give this Heatran a niche in completely shutting down various setup threats like CM Clefable, CM Magearna, and NP Darkrai.

-This mon is lowkey cracked as is, but has little reason to be used over base Excadrill because of oppurtunity cost. Mold Breaker is pretty fitting and a good ability already, but I think we can improve this Pokemon a bit more to make it worth using. Earth Eater is a bit unlikely, but the effect of the ability makes sense on this mon given that its better at drilling in the Ground. Tough Claws makes sense from a design perspective IMO as well - just look as those big Meaty Claws and would give this mon a greater edge in breaking through mons with Iron Head / High Horsepower. Bulletproof is honestly very fitting on this Pokemon given its hard shell when drilling and would give it an amazing MU into key threats like Magearna, Gholdengo, and more - even moreso than base Excadrill. Scrappy is very unlikely, but there is also merits in having a completely unblockable spin in this format - so it depends on whether we sacrifice realism for idealism lol.

Ice Scales is honestly fine, but realistically, I think this Pokemon is getting Tough Claws, which I think would be the best ability for if it just gets used as a Trick Room attacker. Boosts Mach Punch as well.

 

[Yenlyne]

There are talks about this mon being overtuned, which I am 50/50 on. I actually like Earth Eater on it to check threats like Baxcalibur and Garchomp. That said, if we needed to change it, I think just giving it the base Flash Fire would be enough, though it would also just completely gut its usage since there isn't much reason to use it over base Heatran. Another interesting ability - that would also be a bit unlikely - is Unaware which would give this Heatran a niche in completely shutting down various setup threats like CM Clefable, CM Magearna, and NP Darkrai.

What are your thoughts on Filter? I feel like it'd still give it a niche in checking the aforementioned mons without sacrificing the unique role Earth Eater gave it. It would be a strict downgrade, but I feel it'll provide a decent mid-ground as to not completely neuter a mega who would otherwise be competing with base form due to shared ability and/or ending up worse (i.e: Mega Clef /w Serene Grace).

Edit: I do agree with Mega-Excadrill obtaining Earth Eater. The ability would give it a better defined role on bulkier teams since our Ground resist/immunities are mainly comprised of Levitate (, , , , -mega), Shuca Berry (, ), our few-and-far between flying types (, , -mega, , ), or lack of grass types (, -mega). Without comprising too much on role compression it's base role already offers due to higher speed tier.


Not every mega needs Tough Claws.


Re-edit: I think Neutralizing Gas on -mega could be a good shout with denying Regen (, , -mega), Levitate (, , ), Magic Guard ( -mega, ), and a few other key abilities that usually come in to check Heatran like 's Multiscale.

 

[G-Luke]

ghold and pod don't take as much, but don't do that much either. ghold especially can only watch as the SpD goes up and up cause even a make it rain isn't doing very much. then it gets melted by stored power. Pod can probably win a 1v1 but it can't take too many stored powers if it comes in later, but okay let's count it. Any other mon with non-stab SE coverage risks activating weakness policy and dying on the spot. or the Mag just runs VS and pivots out of your check. you never know

Why don't you also just click Nasty Plot on the Ghold yourself? It's a bit of a tightrope walk but NP Ghold can win the 1v1.

Ghold swaps in on the first CM. NP's on the second CM. You NP again when they either CM or SF.

If they CM a third time, you still outspeed and do this

+4 252+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +3 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even if they Calm Minded a fourth time after that first Make It Rain, you still do this

+3 252+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +4 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 162-192 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

If they clicked Shift Gear on the second NP this is how it plays out instead

+4 252+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 291-343 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And at this point you cannot guarantee a 2HKO with Stored Power against zero bulk Ghold

+2 0 SpA Magearna Stored Power (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 155-182 (49.2 - 57.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

Yes it does require careful positioning and Ghold can be chipped throughout the game, but the same holds true for Magearna, and Ghold has reliable 50% recovery, and has enough freedom in this metagame to run more creative stat spreads

So the notion that the only thing Ghold can do is watch Magearna pump up its SpD is so weird lol, as that's NOT the case.

 

[Cuddly]

Mega-Y: I think this mon's ability should be nerfed to Lightning Rod. I do not think the grounds in the tier are well-equipped to handle this Pokemon at all outside of running Scarf sets given its wide coverage with moves like Alluring Voice, Surf, and Grass Knot. That said, I most likely am in the minority of viewing this Pokemon as a potential issue - I'm curious on what other's think.

While we’re at it, give Raichu X Galvanize and Manectric Transistor.
The fact that Raichu X gets both the worse stat distribution and ability (Levitate is good but not as much as Transistor) is criminal, even if X gets that buffed Volt Tackle. And Manectric is in critical condition being the worst of 5 mono-electric Megas.

- So I will still maintain that this Mega's ability to ignore Trick is very nice on Calm Mind sets, but Serene Grace was also not the way to go for the ability imo. I really liked Kibo's suggestion of giving this Pokemon Delta Stream, as that ability isn't overpowered, and would give some interesting trade offs to the Calm Mind set, canceling other weather effects, letting Clef leverage its increased defense to work better against threats like Baxcalibur without being weak to its STAB, and giving it better defensive MUs against stuff like Garchomp and Krookidile in exchange for the gamebreaking utility Magic Guard brings. That said, this is also a signature legendary ability specifically tied to Rayquaza, so I do not think it is likely Clefable will get it. It may be boring, but I think just giving it one of its base abilities in Magic Guard or Unaware would likely suffice - preferably Unaware since this would give it a cool trade off where it can more easily win Calm Mind wars at the expense of being vulnerable to status. I even think Regenerator could be considered here.

Magic Guard for sure. Clefable going from Stealth Rock immune to Stealth Rock weak is pretty bad. It’s a larping Togekiss so it should at least have a good ability.

- This Pokemon is cool and I think Soul Heart is an interesting ability that also fits it, but it is not enough imo for this Pokemon to work given that its Special Attack is a fair deal lower than other Megas and its speed is only adequate - with its coverage also not being all-encompassing enough to make up for these weaknesses. If we want to improve its offensive capabilities, No Guard is the way to go, giving it perfectly accurate Hurricanes and Fire Blasts to nail most of the Fairies and Steels, with Zap Cannon being an additional cheese factor it can rely on to break through different Pokemon. If we want to take this Pokemon in a more defensive direction - either Regenerator, Magic Guard, or Natural Cure feel the most fitting - if a bit boring. I personally think Magic Guard would be the best since it would let this Pokemon act as a pretty decent Defogger with a set of something like Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Roost, Defog - while also not being weak to pursuit. Watch out for Clefable though.

Unfortunately No Guard is off the table because of Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch.
An idea I had was giving Dragonite Delta Stream. Helping you reduce the power of Ice Beam, Stone Edge, and Thunderbolt, and controlling the weather too. Helping your team against Tyranitar and Sand Rush Excadrill.

Delta Stream calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 242-286 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 242-286 (74.9 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 138-164 (35.7 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 138-164 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 109-129 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Glimmora Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 109-129 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Rocky Payload Glimmora-Mega Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Rocky Payload Glimmora-Mega Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 180-213 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 244-288 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 244-288 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Iron Fist Zeraora-Mega Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 100-118 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Iron Fist Zeraora-Mega Plasma Fists vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite-Mega in Strong Winds: 100-118 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 65.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Hadron Engine Eelektross-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega: 118-140 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- 54.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Hadron Engine Eelektross-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite-Mega: 108-128 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Dragonite-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar: 260-306 (76.2 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Dragonite-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 232-274 (78.1 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The more relevant part is the decrease in 2 weaknesses and resisting Electric. The part where you prevent opposing weather being a bonus that'd be more relevant in the main OU with ZA lacking Torkoal and Pelipper.

- Dragon's Maw is a pretty fitting ability on this Pokemon, but it could be better. Personally I don't want this Pokemon to be better since this format doesn't have the greatest water resist and dealing with a DD cheeser with 165 base attack seems annoying. That said, if we needed to improve it, just keeping its base Sheer Force or giving it Tough Claws to also boosts its Dragon STAB would be anough. I think Sheer Force + Dragon STAB is enough - even without the damage boost - since that nails most of the usual Water resist for good damage.

100% agree. It'd be better off with high powered Liquidations and stronger coverage.

- There are talks about this mon being overtuned, which I am 50/50 on. I actually like Earth Eater on it to check threats like Baxcalibur and Garchomp. That said, if we needed to change it, I think just giving it the base Flash Fire would be enough, though it would also just completely gut its usage since there isn't much reason to use it over base Heatran. Another interesting ability - that would also be a bit unlikely - is Unaware which would give this Heatran a niche in completely shutting down various setup threats like CM Clefable, CM Magearna, and NP Darkrai.

Flash Fire would kind of ruin its viability. You'd just rather run regular Heatran since the stats wouldn't make up for the item loss. Some ideas I can think of would be Magnet Pull or Analytic. Also maybe Compound Eyes to make Magma Storm more accurate.

-This mon is lowkey cracked as is, but has little reason to be used over base Excadrill because of oppurtunity cost. Mold Breaker is pretty fitting and a good ability already, but I think we can improve this Pokemon a bit more to make it worth using. Earth Eater is a bit unlikely, but the effect of the ability makes sense on this mon given that its better at drilling in the Ground. Tough Claws makes sense from a design perspective IMO as well - just look as those big Meaty Claws and would give this mon a greater edge in breaking through mons with Iron Head / High Horsepower. Bulletproof is honestly very fitting on this Pokemon given its hard shell when drilling and would give it an amazing MU into key threats like Magearna, Gholdengo, and more - even moreso than base Excadrill. Scrappy is very unlikely, but there is also merits in having a completely unblockable spin in this format - so it depends on whether we sacrifice realism for idealism lol.

My idea is actually Steelworker/Steely Spirit. Mega Excadrill is clearing going more in the drill bit in its design. It looks great on paper, but when you dig deeper you see that Mega Excadrill is left with Mold Breaker and not Sand Rush. It makes sense not to give it Sand Rush when it would dominate the Meta hard and spiral out of control real fast. And with Mold Breaker, it's the same issue with Heatran vs Mega Heatran, where you'd rather use an item and another Mega, especially when you're using it for utility with rapid spin.
Steelworker is a good mind ground between Sand Rush and Mold Breaker. Iron Head would deal a tremendous amount of damage, enough to shake the core of any bulky Pokemon that isn't Rotom-Wash. You lose harder to Rotom Wash, but most Rotom are carrying Ability Shield now, and you don't have to Mega Evolve right way with Excadrill. You can still wait to Mega Evolve if you see Rotom on your opponent's side.

Ice Scales is honestly fine, but realistically, I think this Pokemon is getting Tough Claws, which I think would be the best ability for if it just gets used as a Trick Room attacker. Boosts Mach Punch as well.

Yeah, Tough Claws is more realistic, but it's also bland since there is like 5 other Tough Claws Megas. Ice Scale is great since it makes you so specially bulky that you can tank Nihil Light from Mega Zygarde.
252+ SpA Zygarde-Mega Nihil Light vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ice Scales Crabominable-Mega: 250-295 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mfers would say that this calc is useless and Magic Bounce would be better

I'd also like to add to the discussion.
Magic Guard is a great ability, but Mega Chandelure still sucks. People make fun of Mega Pyroar (who should get Desolate Land since its way weaker than Charizard-Y and Solar Beam can't be cucked by Tyranitar or Drampa), but turn a blind eye to Mega Chandelure who gets nearly the same stat boosts, but 10 less Spe. That 10 goes into SpA to make it +30, but even at that massive jump Mega Chandelure is still weak. You can't even reliably KO a Glimmora with Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes.
252 SpA Chandelure-Mega Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Glimmora: 195-229 (63.5 - 74.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
I was laddering and was flabbergausted when my Glimmora survived a Shadow Ball from Chandelure after Hazards.
Give this thing Sheer Force. It would actually look like it has 175 SpA if it got Sheer Force since its so weak otherwise, and that 90 Speed means you can very easily outspeed it anyways.

 

[Gigabowser20]

Shouldn't the main post be updated to include genesect in the banned mons list?

Also can any of the council confirm if further ability changes (and bans?) are being considered or not?

 

[Runo]

Shouldn't the main post be updated to include genesect in the banned mons list?

Dhelmise will update it when they have time

Also can any of the council confirm if further ability changes (and bans?) are being considered or not?

They are still being considered, deliberation is just slow

 

[JackRG]

can yall ban annihilape next please that shit is annoying and skillless af

 

[Kibo]

MAKING this post too cuz we need an ape ban ASAP it's been way too long; that thing is way too oppressive. Explained why in my previous posts. Buffing mons is fun, etc., but PLEASE let's prioritize banning ape. Mag is broken too, but I know you all won't give it priority; it's fine. (for now) At least now tho we need to ban Ape ASAP

And also nerf some very problematic megas. However, the highest priority should still be the ape.

 

[Cuddly]

MAKING this post too cuz we need an ape ban ASAP it's been way too long; that thing is way too oppressive. Explained why in my previous posts. Buffing mons is fun, etc., but PLEASE let's prioritize banning ape. Mag is broken too, but I know you all won't give it priority; it's fine. (for now) At least now tho we need to ban Ape ASAP

And also nerf some very problematic megas. However, the highest priority should still be the ape.

Legitimately, can someone explain why Ape or Mag were allowed in the first place?
What made people, people who have been playing Pokemon for years or even decades, see some Pokemon that already proved themselves to be overwhelmingly broken multiple times and didn't receive any nerfs, and think "yeah we should test these Pokemon out to see if they really are broken still"?
Not only think that Ape and Mag should be tested, but it's been nearly 3 weeks. Yeah, Christmas was in between, but there is was 2 whole weeks in between and everyone has been bitching about them from the start.

 

[SmokyJ]

Hi, I stopped playing Pokemon for about 10 years, are there any tierlists for Legends Z-A OU?

 

[rahuk]

Why don't you also just click Nasty Plot on the Ghold yourself? It's a bit of a tightrope walk but NP Ghold can win the 1v1.

somehow I failed to consider nasty plot lmao.
ive also seen trick ghold

 

[Cheryl.]

Legitimately, can someone explain why Ape or Mag were allowed in the first place?
What made people, people who have been playing Pokemon for years or even decades, see some Pokemon that already proved themselves to be overwhelmingly broken multiple times and didn't receive any nerfs, and think "yeah we should test these Pokemon out to see if they really are broken still"?
Not only think that Ape and Mag should be tested, but it's been nearly 3 weeks. Yeah, Christmas was in between, but there is was 2 whole weeks in between and everyone has been bitching about them from the start.

Ape’s never really been allowed in a meta without Tera, which was cited as one of the main reasons why it became out of control in SV. I think it was very worthy of a testing period to see if Ape without the ability to flip its type chart would be overwhelming now that it actually had common weaknesses. While I do agree with a ban, I also think Ape had some pretty cool sets that I hope to see in a future meta where it’s more balanced like the Rocks lead sets.

Anyways can we please do something about Pod. Earth Eater Tran is also the most constricting thing ever invented like cmon man