Gen 1 Let's try Kingler! (GarKingZap) [RBY OU]

[Plague von Karma]

So I was cooking up this team with Hipmonlee since I was wondering how Kingler stacked up in the current meta, and it turns out that, well, it's not half bad. Like, not bad at all. One of the more interesting D Ranks, for sure.

I initially intended to use this team to cleave apart Ruft in Yugon's PL tournament as he uses JoltCloy and MieDon a lot, but it didn't pan out as expected. I wasn't sure if it was my poor play or dumb luck, though. Here's the replay where I use it and proceed to lose 0-2, for you to decide...I certainly wasn't proficient with my Rest predictions like I should be, anyway. So, in my infinite wisdom, I handed the team with some minor tweaks to EB0LA when he needed some heat. And, wouldn't you know it, he ended up taking RoA Tour VIII Week 6 RBY OU #4 with it. If you're interested, here's the replay of the final. Not half bad, eh? There was certainly some luck involved, but it worked out!

Anyway, you're not here for stories, you're here to see what my braindead thoughts juiced up by Hipmonlee managed to create. Without further ado, here's the team! Franken Fran is a very good manga btw pls read it to get the references so I don't feel more mentally ill than I already do...

The Team

Fran (Gengar)
Ability: none
- Hypnosis
- Night Shade
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion​

I initially picked Alakazam for the lead to make a ZamDos core, but Hipmonlee suggested Gengar and it immediately improved. This led to me making the team more like Amaranth's "GarZapCuno" core you can find in his Global Championships Team Dump. As with that team, Gengar turns the tempo up to maximum: you really want that first sleep and you can't take your foot off the accelerator for a second. You're flying or dying, here. While many Gengar players like to boom on Chansey, it's not inherently necessary here, as Kingler just OHKOes it. So long as you boom on the right thing, you should be fine.

Gavrill (Kingler)
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam
- Crabhammer​

Man, this mon is cracked. I actually wrote the analysis for this crab, so I encourage you to go there and learn about this thing in detail. But for the purpose of this team, Kingler is here to be the breaker to break all breakers. The power of a +2 Hyper Beam from this motherfucker cannot be understated: it OHKOes Chansey, Alakazam, Jolteon, Jynx, and then many other things if they've been breathed on. It can even OHKO Starmie ~30% of the time. This team is built around abusing this to the max.

Oh, you have a Gengar or Reflect Snorlax? Crabhammer will 3HKO both when it decides to actually work...and not miss while Kingler gets paralyzed by Body Slam. There's a reason Kingler isn't OU, y'know. Anyway, crab with big pincer goes brrr, moving on.

Oswald (Zapdos)
Ability: none
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Thunder Wave
- Agility​

Zapdos forms the attacking core with Kingler, telling Starmie-based teams to die in a fire. Critting Chansey with Drill Peck gives me a very weird dopamine release and I don't know why, but it does and I always end up choking because I want to do it. Anyway, a big point in Zapdos's favour is the synergy it possesses with Gengar and Kingler: Zapdos protects Gengar from Earthquake, but it also gets protected from Rhydon by Kingler. This little triad of synergy allows for some really interesting plays and I'm glad I looked into it after Hipmonlee tipped me off.

Newer players that pilot MieDon often immediately go to Rhydon when they do as much as hear Zapdos's heartbeat. What does this mean? Bring Zapdos in, double to Kingler, now their incoming Rhydon is in a bit of a situation: it gets OHKOed by Crabhammer, or it lets Kingler set up as it leaves. This 50/50 isn't good for them no matter how you look at it. This is partly why Zapdos is used over Jolteon, as while it's an Electric neutrality that contributes to a Zapdos weakness, it lures Rhydon MUCH more effectively. Besides, watching things die to the ridiculously strong Thunderbolt is crack. Yes, I have a fetish for big numbers, what's your problem?

Veronica (Chansey) (F)
Ability: none
- Ice Beam
- Reflect
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave​

Yeah, it's the fat fuck. Can't leave home without a Chansey in this day and age. Anyway, Ice Beam + Reflect helps with staving off Snorlax in an attempt to freeze it, especially if Chansey is paralyzed, and having something defensive to turn to is helpful. This team doesn't have many switch-ins to big threats, so Chansey will often have a lot of pressure put on it when you're on the backfoot.

Counter crossed my mind on this set to synergize with Gengar and Snorlax's Explosions, and Amaranth used it on his GarZapCuno team, but I figured it's better to keep to the traditional sets when you're using something as shaky as Kingler. It can definitely work and could warrant testing. Triple KO Chansey - Sing/Ice Beam/Counter/Soft-Boiled - also crossed my mind to give the team a backup sleeper, but I dunno.

Adorea (Snorlax)
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
- Self-Destruct​

Oh lawd, he comin. This is your typical Reflect Snorlax, only I'm using Self-Destruct over the more common Ice Beam. This is mainly so I can keep trading down until the opponent is left with something that Zapdos or Kingler can smack down, or just force the Tauros mirror. It's the strongest attack in the game, and for such an offensive team, you bet your ass it's fit for something like this. I don't think I need to explain the rest of Reflect Snorlax, though, so moving on!

Okita (Tauros) (M)
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Earthquake​

Standard Tauros, nothing fancy because we don't need it. As a great man once said: "where there's a Tauros, there's a way", and it applies here just like anywhere else. If I'm losing and there's an unparalyzed Tauros in the back, I can always turn the tables and win. This Pokemon will princess carry you to bed, make you a cuppa in the morning, and pay your taxes. How nice of him, he's almost as good as my boyfriend.

Thunderbolt crossed my mind as a way to shit on Starmie, but Earthquake is nice just to check for Counter while keeping the offence up. Besides, when I'm using something like Kingler, I do need coverage for Gengar somewhere on the team.

Conclusion

This is a very, very explosive team that can be difficult to stop once it goes off. However, it's also quite inconsistent and unwieldy, especially if the opening doesn't go your way. You can always fire back, it's just a case of getting that opening. Thanks to Hipmonlee for helping me get the team into a playable state, and thanks to EB0LA for pulling that win out of his ass with it. Kingler hasn't had many teams posted online in the past so it's nice to have a solid one for people who want to try it out.

Pokepaste for Zoomers

Importable for Boomers

Fran (Gengar)
Ability: none
- Hypnosis
- Night Shade
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Gavrill (Kingler)
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Hyper Beam
- Body Slam
- Crabhammer

Oswald (Zapdos)
Ability: none
- Thunderbolt
- Drill Peck
- Thunder Wave
- Agility

Veronica (Chansey) (F)
Ability: none
- Ice Beam
- Reflect
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Adorea (Snorlax)
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
- Self-Destruct

Okita (Tauros) (M)
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard
- Earthquake

 

[Hipmonlee]

Just want to add a little note on that Chansey set.

I have been using it lately and I like it a lot. The goal with it is to save it for your Lax check, similar to the classic reflect stoss chansey. But with two big advantages.

The first is that it actually forces ice lax to switch out. Well, not exactly forces, but if Lax stays in against you it is not favoured in the freeze war for two main reasons: Firstly Chansey is faster, so any time Lax tries to icebeam it needs to survive Chansey's ice beam first --- Although technically since we assume Chan is switching in, then Lax will get off the first ice beam, BUT after that initial ice beam the advantage is with Chansey. And secondly because you do three times as much damage with your ice beams to lax as lax does to you, AND whenever Lax rests it always gives you a free turn to softboiled, so you never waste a turn on recovery, whereas Lax does every three hits of ice beam.

And it means that Chansey is actually a Rhydon check, and honestly, quite a good one. Particularly when it is coming into a Body Slam rather than Earthquake, which is why it works better with Zapdos than Jolteon.

But remember to keep Chansey's health high. Don't go throwing out ice beams when you dont need to.

Thunderwave could be any move. Including counter, which no one who hasnt seen this post would ever consider. My favourite is thunderwave because it is the best move, but it's what your team needs. Being useless against ice types isnt such a big deal, you just thunderwave them then set up Kingler or go to Gengar. You may be able to pivot/double Zapdos in. The goal of the set is checking Lax and Rhydon, if your opponent is switching them out to ice types then youre doing well.

 

[Gen1UUFan]

Hey this team is awesome! Love SD mons, love Kingler, awesome. Since you're obviously a betting man, I just want to add that Thunder on Zapdos is quite viable; some people run Thunder over Agility and keep T-Bolt, while others use Agility (or very rarely another move, like Rest, Reflect, Light Screen, etc.) and drop T-Bolt entirely. It's obviously a huge risk/reward play, and comes down to preference, but in Gen 1 more than many others Thunder is very viable, especially in these situations:
1. Thunder can turn the tide against the bull

Vs. Tauros

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Tauros: 151-178 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 0.8% chance to 2HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Tauros: 191-225 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (effectively 50% after accuracy is factored in, with a 54% chance to paralyze within 2 turns)
This is relevant because Zapdos avoids the 2HKO from Tauros without any crits, and since they're both great endgame mons, this can be a fairly common matchup. No better feeling than critting and OHKOing the bull as well.

2. Thunder can really help Zapdos avoid getting hit by Blizzards/Strong Water moves

Vs. Waters/Ices

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Starmie: 241-284 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Starmie: 306-360 (94.7 - 111.4%) -- 69.2% chance to OHKO (Essentially 50% after accuracy and before crit)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Cloyster: 267-314 (88.1 - 103.6%) -- 23.1% chance to OHKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Cloyster: 336-396 (110.8 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Essentially 70% to OHKO, 91% chance to KO after 2 turns)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Slowbro: 280-330 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. +2 Slowbro: 139-164 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Slowbro: 354-416 (90 - 105.8%) -- 38.5% chance to OHKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. +2 Slowbro: 175-206 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 18.9% chance to 2HKO
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Jynx: 125-147 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Jynx: 156-184 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 72.2% chance to 2HKO
Zapdos Drill Peck vs. Jynx: 142-168 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 0.9% chance to 2HKO

Though there are some situations where Thunderbolt is objectively better...

When to use T-Bolt

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Lapras: 250-294 (53.9 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Lapras: 313-368 (67.6 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Articuno calc is nearly identical)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Alakazam: 97-115 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 71.7% chance to 3HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Alakazam: 123-145 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (after accuracy this is more like a 33% chance, so worse than T-Bolt)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Gengar: 102-120 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 83.7% chance to 3HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Gengar: 127-150 (39.3 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (See above)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Gyarados: 483-568 (122.9 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

3. Thunder can put a lot more pressure on the opponent in switches and against Reflect users that look to avoid Zapdos's mixed capabilities, especially considering it's got almost the same para chance as Body Slam. With some luck it can even make the difference in the Electric vs. Electric match up as well, though remember, you can't para electrics with Thunder! Also important to note that in Gen 1 only, Thunder only has a 10% chance to paralyze, same as T-Bolt, otherwise it would be even better.

Vs. Normals/Electrics

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Chansey: 117-138 (16.6 - 19.6%) -- possible 6HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Chansey: 146-172 (20.7 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Zapdos Drill Peck vs. Chansey through Reflect: 110-130 (15.6 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Snorlax: 156-184 (29.8 - 35.1%) -- 18.6% chance to 3HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Snorlax: 197-232 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (as with the Zam calc above, it's about a 33% chance, so twice as good as T-Bolt)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Persian: 156-184 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 72.2% chance to 2HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Persian: 197-232 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This one could go either way, though para chance could be quite useful)
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Jolteon: 56-66 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Jolteon: 71-84 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. Zapdos: 94-111 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Zapdos: 102-121 (26.6 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Zapdos: 130-153 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Raichu: 64-76 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO
Zapdos Thunder vs. Raichu: 81-96 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

So yeah, obviously all the calcs come with the assumption the opposition is at full health, and obviously the decision for one over the other can be pretty nuanced, but just thought I'd give a little primer of (most) of the relevant OU calcs for Thunder vs T-Bolt. Though of course with Zapdos, unfortunately no choice of thunder stab will fix the fact that

Worst Enemies

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Rhydon: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Zapdos Thunder vs. Rhydon: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Sandslash: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Zapdos Thunder vs. Sandslash: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 2 Diglett: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Zapdos Thunder vs. Lvl 2 Diglett: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
;)

So if you ever want to put a bit more excitement into your games, add Thunder to Zapdos and keep these calcs handy! And keep it up with the Swords Dancers, they're awesome. Sandslash also has great synergy with Zapdos and is very fun to use.