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Metagame LGPE Little Cup

Ezaphs

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Little Cup for Pokémon Let's Go! Pikachu and Eevee. Players may only use Pokémon that have not yet evolved, are capable of evolution, and are obtainable at level 5 in-game. The way this is achieved in Let's Go is often through transfers from Pokémon Go.
Bans: Omanyte (reasoning can be found in Tiering History tab of Resources)
Resources: Below!
Summary: This tier plays very differently to modern Little Cup tiers. The meta favours fast Pokémon due to the lack of EVs, items (Choice Scarf) and limited priority. 1 turn recovery has extremely poor distribution, only being obtained by Staryu and some Flying types. This combined with the lack of powerful defensive abilities such as Regenerator and items like Berry Juice and Eviolite further pushes the meta towards favouring offensive playstyles. The hazard game is also very different; while only Stealth Rock exist, there is no way to remove them. This means they will likely be set up and remain that way for most games.

Threatlist:
Staryu is the only Pokémon with recovery that has good bulk and isn't weak to hazards. Not only that, but it also has great offensive stats and BoltBeam to compliment its STAB Hydro Pumps (which 2HKO basically any non-resist) or Surfs. Staryu rules the metagame and is definitely the main consideration for a suspect.
Diglett, while not being a trapper in this format, still holds a great Speed tier and has good offensive options in Earthquake + Rock Slide and Sucker Punch in a tier where almost no Ground resists exist and good Flying types are very frail. It is also the fastest and therefore most reliable setter of Stealth Rock due to being practically uncontested.
The only currently legal user of Shell Smash, Shellder can be very effective at breaking holes. However, it is almost entirely limited to bad coverage from its weaker offensive stat which stops it from sweeping as easily as Omanyte.

The meta currently doesn't have a format on the main server, but can still be played. For guaranteeing people play fair there is one on the Nexus server. For discussion on this meta and more I'd recommend the Let's Go Discord!
Enjoy!

LG LC Council:
Ezaphs (TL)
DatHeatmor
pinktidal
rhydonphilip
 
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Ezaphs

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LG LC Viability Rankings
(In alphabetical order, this may change once the meta has been tested further)

S Tier (stands for staryu)
Staryu

A Tier
A+
Diglett
Voltorb

A
Abra
Doduo
Gastly
Rattata-Alola
A-
Exeggcute
Meowth
Rhyhorn
Sandshrew-Alola
Shellder

B Tier
B+
Bulbasaur
Grimer-Alola
Koffing
Oddish
Ponyta
B
Ekans
Magnemite
Meowth-Alola
Slowpoke
B-
Clefairy
Dratini
Drowzee
Pikachu
Sandshrew

C Tier (unorganised, currently contains Pokémon that have potential niches but are mostly outclassed or struggle in the meta)
Diglett-Alola
Growlithe
Goldeen
Jigglypuff
Kabuto
Mankey
Paras
Rattata
Seel
Spearow

D Tier
Everything else.

If you feel something is tiered incorrectly or isn't tiered at all when it should be, feel free to nominate it. Please provide good arguments for your case. Posting replays showcasing the mon helps a lot too, as often things don't work as well as they might on paper.
 
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Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
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Speed Tiers (with 70 Happiness)
This is very much WIP, number of entries will be reduced shortly

T0 (>17: Boosted tier)
Ponyta 0 +2 (30)
Growlithe 0 +2 (24)
Goldeen 0 +2 (24)
Dratini 0 +2 (22)
Shellder 0 +2 (20)
Shellder -Spe +2 (18)

T1 (16-17)
-17-

Voltorb +Spe
Diglett +Spe

-16-
Diglett-Alola +Spe
Meowth +Spe
Meowth-Alola +Spe
Pikachu +Spe
Abra +Spe
Ponyta +Spe
Staryu +Spe

T2 (14-15)
-15-

Ponyta 0
Gastly +Spe
Doduo +Spe

-14-
Rattata +Spe
Rattata-Alola +Spe
Spearow +Spe
Mankey +Spe
Tentacool +Spe

T3 (12-13)
-13-

Rattata 0
Rattata-Alola 0
Spearow 0
Goldeen +Spe
Growlithe +Spe
Ekans +Spe
Kabuto +Spe

-12-
Goldeen 0
Growlithe 0
Ekans 0
Kabuto 0
Dratini +Spe
Bulbasaur +Spe
Magnemite +Spe
Seel +Spe

Tier 4 (10-11)
-11-

Dratini 0
Bulbasaur 0
Magnemite 0
Seel 0
Drowzee +Spe
Sandshrew +Spe
Sandshrew-Alola +Spe
Exeggcute +Spe
Koffing +Spe

-10-
Drowzee 0
Sandshrew 0
Sandshrew-Alola 0
Shellder 0
Exeggcute 0
Koffing 0
Oddish +Spe
Paras +Spe
Grimer-Alola +Spe
Rhyhorn +Spe

T5 (<10)
-9-

Shellder -Spe
Oddish 0
Paras 0
Grimer-Alola 0
Rhyhorn 0

-8-
Jigglypuff 0
Slowpoke 0

-7-
Jigglypuff -Spe
 
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Hello,there. We're also putting Lets Go LC in OM Mashup as well, though no one was talking about it except for me.
Anyways, I do agree with Omanyte being banned, its rather hard to check in my opinion, alongside its high Defense and lack of Mach Punch user.
Also, I'm attempting to do a Speed Tier for this format (providing they are set to level 5 and no candies) . Its not done yet, but anyone who can help expanding it will be greatful.

I'm truly happy that this thread finally exist now :), and i'm hoping for some great things here.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
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Moderator
The first point of discussion I want to bring up is Staryu. Not only does it boast some of the best offensive stats in the meta, it also has perfect coverage that hits a variety of things supereffectively. Because of this, there isn't a single Pokémon in the tier that isn't OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by a move from Staryu (unless I missed something big), and there's only two that reliably outspeed it in Diglett and Voltorb. If that wasn't enough it also has access to Recover, a move exclusive to Staryu in this meta, which lets it be the only Pokémon that can really use a healing move viably. All this leads to a meta revolving around wearing things down slightly into range of the Starbinger of Doom, or desperately hoping they'll throw theirs away versus your Voltorb. I'm proposing a quickban to improve the quality of the meta in its early stages, but want to hear what other people think first. I also plan to play a few more games and see whether things are different in practise.
 
The first point of discussion I want to bring up is Staryu. Not only does it boast some of the best offensive stats in the meta, it also has perfect coverage that hits a variety of things supereffectively. Because of this, there isn't a single Pokémon in the tier that isn't OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by a move from Staryu (unless I missed something big), and there's only two that reliably outspeed it in Diglett and Voltorb. If that wasn't enough it also has access to Recover, a move exclusive to Staryu in this meta, which lets it be the only Pokémon that can really use a healing move viably. All this leads to a meta revolving around wearing things down slightly into range of the Starbinger of Doom, or desperately hoping they'll throw theirs away versus your Voltorb. I'm proposing a quickban to improve the quality of the meta in its early stages, but want to hear what other people think first. I also plan to play a few more games and see whether things are different in practise.
Maybe I don't know too much about the meta but I feel like the problem Staryu has is going to be a problem with most Pokemon in the metagame, honestly, especially 16 speeders. With no recovery, no eviolite and a very limited pool of Pokemon to pull from, I feel like the metagame will always come down to fast, heavy hitters. Doduo in particular stands out to me, Drill Peck + Jump Kick is like impossible for anything to switch in too. With so much absurd power and speed flying around and little to no recovery options, I'm willing to accept that the meta is just built around doing as much damage as fast as possible. And since you have things like Voltorb, Pikachu, Abra, etc to potentially threaten Staryu, I'm leaning on the side of no ban.

Of course this is all theorymoning. I haven't ever played a match of LGLC, so my estimate could be way out of the ballpark. I'd be down for a battle, just hmu on here or discord.
 

Ezaphs

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is a Forum Moderator
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Maybe I don't know too much about the meta but I feel like the problem Staryu has is going to be a problem with most Pokemon in the metagame, honestly, especially 16 speeders. With no recovery, no eviolite and a very limited pool of Pokemon to pull from, I feel like the metagame will always come down to fast, heavy hitters. Doduo in particular stands out to me, Drill Peck + Jump Kick is like impossible for anything to switch in too. With so much absurd power and speed flying around and little to no recovery options, I'm willing to accept that the meta is just built around doing as much damage as fast as possible. And since you have things like Voltorb, Pikachu, Abra, etc to potentially threaten Staryu, I'm leaning on the side of no ban.

Of course this is all theorymoning. I haven't ever played a match of LGLC, so my estimate could be way out of the ballpark. I'd be down for a battle, just hmu on here or discord.
Thing with Doduo is that it's actually weak to a form of priority from a somewhat viable Pokémon, its STAB isn't as powerful, it's frailer + rocks weak and it can be answered by Diglett more often which makes a big difference. For Staryu out of those answers only Voltorb is very good seeing as it ties and does huge damage to both the others, really not requiring much damage to beat both if it wins the tie. It also doesn't get worn down as easily as other offensive mons thanks to being able to Recover when it forces switches. I get your point though, banning Staryu might just not change the meta unless we ban several other mons. Thanks for your input!
 
Hello. Cool looking tier you’ve got here. I’m new to the LGPE community and was wondering if there was a room on showdown or discord that you operated out of. Was curious about the meta and didn’t wanna flood the forum.
 
I agree. Doduo has hard time setting up due to its frailty and weakness to Stealth Rock. Anyways, Staryu has like little answer outside of Voltorb, i don't think there would be viable Grass-Types, but they tend to get worn down into range of Ice Beam if they want to switch into Hydro Pump and most Water-Types lack something to OHKO Staryu. But after looking to the LGPE calc, Staryu somewhat fails to OHKO certain pokemon after Stealth Rock with Hydro Pump alone, that it needs like 2 stealth rock switch-in on its target.

Staryu Hydro Pump vs. Abra: 13-16 (68.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Staryu Hydro Pump vs. Pikachu: 15-18 (75 - 90%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Staryu Hydro Pump vs. Mankey: 15-18 (75 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Staryu Hydro Pump vs. Magnemite: 13-16 (68.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Though Staryu can have 50% chance to OHKO very frail pokemon like Gastly, Meowth and Rattata after Stealth Rock.Most pokemon can also do like more than 50% damage to Staryu.

I think that free switch here was mostly limited to resisted hits due many pokemon can 2HKO mostly everything.

The one thing i also think about Staryu was it was one of reliable answers to Shellder ( unless Self-Destruct on Shell Smash set is a thing ). Because, Shellder's Hydro Pump at +2 OHKOs anything that doesn't resist it.

+2 Shellder Hydro Pump vs. Drowzee: 19-24 (86.3 - 109%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 Shellder Hydro Pump vs. Grimer-Alola: 25-31 (104.1 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anyways, i'm not really sure if Staryu needs to be banned or not...
 

Funbot28

Porque yo soy tu veneno
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I agree that Staryu is too much for the tier. Throughout all my playtests, there has never been a match where either my Staryu or the opponents (note that every game I had had one in both teams) did not put an immense amount of work. Having great power, bulk, speed, and coverage gives it everything it needs to perform above and beyond every single other offensive threat in the tier. The only offensive checks that can outspeed it and threaten it such as Voltorb and DIglett do not switch in safely at all and are usually forced to come in after a sack from the opposing team. It can maneuver around its checks via BoltBeam coverage and smack the rest of the metagame with Scald/Hydro Pump.

The star is too much of the tier and warrants a ban imo. End the Star Wars,
 

Ezaphs

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Moderator
To be quite honest, I'm starting to think that Staryu isn't banworthy. Not to say that it doesn't have insane strengths- it definitely does. The thing is, so do several other Pokémon. It turns out that being able to 2HKO most things is not at all exclusive to Staryu, with several other powerful attackers like Rhyhorn, Doduo, Alolan Rattata, Meowth, Abra, Gastly, Diglett and Voltorb bringing their own threatening offensive presences alongside other useful tools (whether that is Stealth Rock, STAB Priority, just being really strong or having an uncontested Speed tier). To me Staryu definitely has a slight edge over these but isn't necessarily unbearable, just the best Pokémon. For now the tier will be left as is, untouched other than Omanyte, but I'm definitely open to giving stuff (Staryu) a better suspect test later on.
In summary: Yeah Staryu is impossible to switch in on but so is a lot of stuff lol, we'll leave it be for now.


EDIT- basically another entire post

Me and pinktidal played a few games, He did quite a bit of changing up while I used the same team the whole time so we got to see a decent number of meta relevant matchups and mons that I haven't seen yet. Gonna go over a few of the noteable things we found.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgosinglesnorestrictions-846078347
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgosinglesnorestrictions-846089737
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgosinglesnorestrictions-846098019
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7letsgosinglesnorestrictions-846101265
The meta is entirely based on offense due to vital aspects of defensive teams (recovery, items that improve longevity, defensive abilities) not existing. Trying to play defensively is a great way to simulate clicking forfeit. With that said...
Firstly, Staryu only seemed slightly harder to deal with than other big threats. Voltorb being the only surefire answer isn't a bad thing when Voltorb is honestly an A+ mon, and there's a decent number of checks. There's also the fact that Hydro Pump loves to miss which makes it less reliable. Still the best mon!
Alolan Rattata surprised us! Its base Attack is alright, but is really supplemented by Double-Edge's above average natural power. Combine this with the other options of Sucker Punch, Crunch, Quick Attack, U-Turn and possibly even Iron Tail for better damage versus Rhyhorn and you have a big threat. It can afford to run Adamant too due to 13 Speed not being too important to reliably outrun and because of its variety of priority options. A top mon for sure.
Diglett is great, unsurprisingly. Not much to explain, it clicks Earthquake or Rock Slide and outprioritizes the entire tier with its Sucker Punch. The damage it does is plenty for the meta, and overall Diglett is the main reason you might see your opponent run Exeggcute.
Abra picks up KOs when it comes out, then gets forced out or revenged by mandatory Diglett, Voltorb or priority mon. Your opponent is unlikely to actually switch in front of it so Calm Mind isn't that great usually, Thunder Wave seems like a nice option for some teams though.
Rhyhorn hits like a rhinoceros and has a 120 BP Bug move for Exeggcute. If it's in versus a physical attacker, chances are you're getting a KO or at least 80%.
Sub Hypnosis Gastly can be really annoying versus a lot of teams with good luck. DPP Ponyta anyone?
Doduo is very scary as predicted, but its frailty and the slightly lackluster power of Quick Attack can let it down. My main response was Koffing which turns out to be decent in its own right with good bulk, good strength and great offensive options including Explosion.

Not much else to say at the moment, preliminary VR probably coming soon!
 
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this tier is all about speed and coverage, switching in on a resisted hit will bring u into the range of a neutral hit. also priority moves are so broken in here
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
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this tier is all about speed and coverage, switching in on a resisted hit will bring u into the range of a neutral hit. also priority moves are so broken in here
Priority moves are hardly broken; they're just a good thing to have to counteract people spamming fast mons. Most teams should be able to fit at least one tank like Rhydon or Koffing that can deal with almost any priority user, and the arguable best user in Alolan Rat relies on Sucker Punch which can be played around. But yes, this tier is in general very high power. Unless we ban a large number of mons this probably won't change.

Also, here's an Announcement:
I'm putting together a council for LG LC! This council will vote on slates for the Viability Rankings and will have influence on starting suspect tests, among other things. Seeing as the meta is new, the only requirements I'm putting on being a member are:
  • You've played a few LG LC matches
  • You're a fairly established player on Smogon (not as in winning trophies, but has been around for a bit)
  • I don't distrust you
  • Has preferably played a decent amount of LC from other Gens.
With that said, rhydonphilip and DatHeatmor are both users that have fit these requirements and have requested a spot. Welcome to the council! I'm also offering a spot to pinktidal right now.
If you want to join the council and meet the requirements, message me! I don't want the council to be too big at this stage, especially when this meta seems fairly low maintenance, so we'll probably only have 4 or 5 members (not including me).
 
Priority moves are hardly broken; they're just a good thing to have to counteract people spamming fast mons. Most teams should be able to fit at least one tank like Rhydon or Koffing that can deal with almost any priority user, and the arguable best user in Alolan Rat relies on Sucker Punch which can be played around. But yes, this tier is in general very high power. Unless we ban a large number of mons this probably won't change.

Quick attack on a-rat is super underrated. It's STAB and doesn't rely on your opponent attacking, so it's great for finishing stuff off - particularly stuff like Staryu or Abra, who might choose to predict a sucker punch and go for a cheeky recover instead of swapping.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
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It's time for the first LG LC Viability Rankings update! These changes were voted on by the council, and our reasonings for each of our votes can be found below (worth checking them out, some of these changes were controversial and some of us even voted for a drop when the outcome was a rise)
Sandshrew-Alola B+ -> A-
Ponyta B -> B+
Grimer-Alola B -> B+
Ekans B- -> B
Clefairy C -> B-
Drowzee Unranked -> B-
Eza: A- Once Staryu is removed this thing can really go in on a lot of matchups. Ice Shard is great and it's the most viable Steel type by quite a large margin.
Pinktidal: B+ Strong normal resist with good prio. If only it could safely switch in on doduo/rattata-A's coverage. Also struggles with waters.
Rhydonphilip: A-Strong priority, useful type, only really held back by staryu and shellder and able to set up on a few top meta pokemon.
Spooktune: A- Ice Shard + the offensive Ice typing + the defensive Steel typing means this mon means business. Ice shard deals with a lot of threats. Access to Swords Dance is also vital, meaning this mon hits hard and doesnt take no for an answer.

Eza: B+ Same as Shrew, but struggles more with Diglett and doesn't have quite as good a typing. It does partly make up for that with way better Speed, generally hitting a bit harder and having Agility, but it requires a bit more support than Shrew
Pinktidal: B Offensively pony seems great but it's under constant pressure from faster mons and its SR weakness. Also struggles to sweep as it's too frail to setup and too weak to reliably kill its counters.
Rhydonphilip: B+ Fast, Flareblitz hurts like hell, it can take a hit even after some HP loss and staryu/rhyhorn can wall it but it still checks 90% of all other mons 1v1 if healthy.
Eza edit: Ponyta's Double Kick reliably 2hkos Rhyhorn
Spooktune: B- Not that great of a typing, and struggles with the 2 most popular pokemon in the tier, Staryu and Diglett. i dont see the interest.

Eza: B+ Best answer to two threatening A ranks and a decent Voltorb answer but struggles significantly versus physical threats and doesn't like having to face Staryu if it's taken any damage or tries to switch in
Pinktidal: B+ Checks psychics and poisons consistently but it's slow, ground weak, and easily chipped.
Rhydonphilip: B Bulk to raw check some mons, has recovery with mega drain vs straryu to some extend but that won't make it counter it. COUNTERS gastly, abra, exeggute.
Spooktune: Did not vote

Eza: B Paralysis is great and Ekans is good at spreading it. Has ok offensive moves for the meta too. Still kinda sucks statwise and isn't hugely powerful so I'm only going B
Pinktidal: B- Poison typing and its poor speed/bulk really make this mon seem like dead weight when compared to other poisons. Glare and its coverage options give it a slight niche though.
Rhydonphilip: C Glare isn't enough of a niche over even regular grimer to be higher than this imo.
Spooktune: B Glare's ability to hit Ground types means Ekans can be safe even around a Diglett switch in.

Eza: B- I think C was underselling this mon, but it still rlly doesn't do much. Its typing basically does nothing except make it vulnerable to the rare Ekans and there are other scarier Rocks setters.
Pinktidal: B- Nice movepool and typing but it struggles to take hits and is passive unless it's clicking t-wave.
Rhydonphilip: B- Moonblast hurts, broad coverage, even gets rocks. Nice bulk too.
Spooktune: B- At first glance it appears this pokemon could be great as it has access to a bunch of coverage options. i was disappointed, however, with its inability to kill things it's supposed to kill.

Eza: B- Niche setup mon that will probably 1v1 some other special attackers but do very little more, its bulk is nice though
Pinktidal: B- Highest SpDef in the tier, has access to T-Wave but it's still easily exploited by bugs, darks, and other physical attackers.
Rhydonphilip: B- fattest spD wall, t-wave spammer, nice move options like nasty plot if you thought of setting up for some reason.
Spooktune: Did not vote


We'll continue to adjust the rankings as the meta develops. Feel free to give your own feedback of course, we'll take them into account!
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I've been keeping this announcement ready for our move to Unofficial Metagames, and now it's finally time! So, what's the announcement?
We're trying out candies in LG LC!
Don't worry, not 200 in each stat! We're going to try out the meta with candies in a way that emulates Gen 7's EVs. That is, each Pokémon can have up to 8 AVs with a maximum of 3 in any given stat.
-Why?
The goal here is to add a bit more depth to the metagame, and seeing as LG LC has to be played in No Restrictions regardless we decided utilizing Candy would be a decent idea. Investing in HP and a defensive stat outweighs investing in just an offensive stat, meaning that defensive play recieves a buff- basically, things might actually be able to take 2 hits. It also adds a bit more nuance to Speed tiers but we expect most things to max out regardless.

I'm excited to see how this change affects the metagame, and I'm expecting it will be for the better! If you see me on showdown, challenge me to a battle. :)
 
After a little bit of testing in the calc, here are some things that i found
(Note: From candies, i put AV value and stats to know what i put. Also colorings to determine the calcs if Without Candy or With Candy . I used the same calc from Lets Go OU if you're wondering)


I think Abra benefits from Candies as it can achieved certain OHKOs from it, something that it misses

Abra Psychic vs. Staryu: 15-18 (78.9 - 94.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
3 Spa Abra Psychic vs. 2 / 0 SpDef Staryu: 16-21 (76.1 - 100%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I know Grimer-A exist, but no Pursuit means Abra can have slightly easier time.
though this isn't just limited to Abra, but also some few offensive mons, for example

Sandshrew-Alola's Ice Shard against Diglett:

Sandshrew-Alola Ice Shard vs. Diglett: 14-20 (73.6 - 105.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
3+ Atk Sandshrew-Alola Ice Shard vs. 2 / 0 Def Diglett: 18-24 (94.7 - 126.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

All in all, I feel like offensive benefits a lot than defensive imo, the only thing defensive mon get was avoiding certain OHKOs or 2HKOS

Staryu Hydro Pump vs. Sandshrew-Alola: 16-19 (76.1 - 90.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
3 SpA Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 2 / 2 SpDef Sandshrew-Alola: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Voltorb Foul Play vs. Exeggcute: 10-12 (45.4 - 54.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Voltorb Foul Play vs. 2 / 3+ Def (Bold) Exeggcute: 8-10 (33.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Diglett Earthquake vs. Rhyhorn: 18-24 (75 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
3 Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 3 / 2 Def Rhyhorn: 18-24 (66.6 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Though its still few and i'm still need a more testing and experiments, but i think it can be a good idea.
 
How can I boost happiness without leveling it up? And how am I supose to get it level 5 from pogo? Aren't the levels randomized?
 
How can I boost happiness without leveling it up? And how am I supose to get it level 5 from pogo? Aren't the levels randomized?
Levels are directly converted from level in Go (it's a real thing—the "progress bar" arc on the mon's summary screen). Mons in Go can range from level 1 to 40 including half-levels, although I don't think it's a perfect 1:1 conversion when you transfer over.
 

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