Metagame LGPE UU


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(overdesigned logo by me)
LGPE UU is the home of Pokémon that don't have what it takes to be consistent performers in OU. Here you'll find the likes of Jolteon, Tauros, Clefable, and even some Mega Evolutions. The tier is now based off the LGPE OU Viability Ranking rather than usage stats, with anything ranked B- or lower there being allowed. This thread will be the hub for all resources and tiering discussions, including Viability Rankings, suspect tests, quickbans and general conversation about the format as it develops.

Pokemon are set to Level 50. Pokemon do not have EVs, Abilities, or Items. IVs and Nature still apply.
Clauses: Smogon-Wide Clauses.
Allowed Pokemon: Pokemon 1-151 and Meltan, minus the prohibited Pokemon listed below, are allowed for use in LGPE UU.

OU: Aerodactyl, Aerodactyl-Mega, Alakazam-Mega, Beedrill-Mega, Blastoise-Mega, Chansey, Charizard-Mega-X, Cloyster, Dragonite, Dugtrio-Alola, Exeggutor-Alola, Gengar, Gyarados-Mega, Melmetal, Mew, Muk-Alola, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Persian-Alola, Poliwrath, Rhydon, Snorlax, Starmie, Venusaur-Mega, Zapdos
UUBL: Alakazam, Venomoth

Viability Rankings
Type Compendium
Sample Teams
Speed Tiers
please note that, with the exception of Sample Teams and Discord, these resources are currently outdated.
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Due to how new this version of UU is, we don't have a Viability Ranking. You can view the old one below if that's of interest to you.
Viability Rankings (V1)
Pokemon are ranked based on how well they perform in the metagame. This is usually measured by how well the Pokemon perform in the following criteria:
Threat Level, Splashability, Reliability, Metagame Impact, Speed, Bulk, Uniqueness, Stealth Rock Vulnerability, Matchup Spread.

S Rank:

Pokemon in this rank fill all of the main criteria and then some, with a strong proficiency in several. If a Pokemon in this rank has any downsides, they are usually tame or eclipsed by their obvious assets.


A Rank:
Pokemon in this rank may fill the majority or all of the criteria. These Pokemon may have one major or some minor negative characteristics that could set them back.


B Rank:
Pokemon in this rank do an alright job fulfilling criteria, albeit not as convincingly. These Pokemon will have some issues you should be accounting for while building your team.


Pokemon in this rank do a mediocre job at filling criteria. The sizable amount of negative characteristics associated with these Pokemon are something to weigh against their positives before you fit one on a team.

:muk: Muk
:raticate: Raticate​
:fearow: Fearow​
:raticate-alola: Alolan Raticate​
Last Updated: 23rd May 2022
23rd May 2022: Moved various Pokemon
18th September 2020: Moved Mega Charizard X from A+ to S
17th July 2020: Initial VR created by Eve

Other Resources
Damage Calc (provided by @Lego)
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
That prohibited mons list seems kinda off. It doesn't mention certain mons like Arcanine and normal Sandslash while incorrectly saying stuff like Charizard is banned by usage. That said...

Gyarados seems like a pretty all-around solid tank. It can check the Mega Charizards while Dragon Tailing out checks and dishing the damage with Earthquake and Waterfall. ou by usage nvm

Screenshot 2020-02-27 at 7.44.05 PM.png

On the subject of Water tanks, Tentacruel also seems pretty neat. Takes on the Megazards even better, although unlike Gyarados it has to beware Earthquake. It also has sustain in Mega Drain as well as high-power Scalds and Sludge Bomb.

110762 (2).png

Surprisingly anti-meta rocker? It seems like there's gonna be a good amount of Water types, and while Golem-Alola can't switch in, Water can't switch in on it either due to its Electric STAB.


I remember running Bulk Up Mega Pinsir allll the way back in the good old days of pre-release Candy OU, and it put in work there. Maybe it can find a home in UU?

Without Magic Guard OU has been a bit too strong for it, but perhaps it can be a good Fairy down here
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LGPE now has a working teambuilder once again thanks to Kris! As a result, building for the tier will be much easier. An interesting side effect of using our old combined usage for megas and base formes is that Gengar has been put in OU. We can't determine whether it would have dropped without its Mega, and would almost certainly have banned it regardless. We're sticking with this tiering, meaning Gengar is no longer allowed in LGPE UU.

That's not all I want to share though- while I'm here, I feel like giving an overview of my favourite team from the little testing we've had. I feel like it does a good job of showing that LGPE is very accomodating to a variety of playstyles!

:ss/tentacruel::ss/electrode::ss/pinsir-mega::ss/pikachu-starter::ss/marowak::ss/persian-alola: (click for pokepaste)
This is a very basic dual screens offense. LGPE's lack of Light Clay makes it a much smarter choice to have a balanced backbone on this teamstyle in order to better respond to the opponent's offense, rather than going all in on offense and relying on screens to tank hits. In this team's case, Tentacruel and Marowak make for a solid 2 Pokemon core that can respond to many threats in a pinch. Electrode also acts as a catch-all, being fast enough to outspeed even a +1 Venomoth and prevent further setup, and Pikachu can pick things off with Zippy Zap. For offense, the team is definitely not lacking in fast firepower- Mega Pinsir is absolutely nuclear and can decimate bulkier teams or those that have their fast Pokemon picked off. Alolan Persian has perfect coverage in two moves and a stellar Speed tier, making it a great pivot and greatly improving the team's matchup against opposing offense which can't deal with its decidedly lacking Special Attack after a boost. This team is probably far from optimal, but it's definitely fun! Be wary that due to Screens' shorter duration, it may be optimal to only set up one at a time to maximise the number of turns you get.
Things to experiment with: Explosion/Teleport on Electrode, Swords Dance on Marowak, Hypnosis on Alolan Persian, Reflect on Tentacruel

Also, here's some general thoughts on which Pokemon stand out at this stage-
:tentacruel: This is the best Pokemon in the tier. Amazing special bulk, solid Speed, Toxic immune and a reliable spreader, and very difficult to switch into with its coverage and Scald in general- Tentacruel has it all.

:dugtrio: Dugtrio is strong and really fast (most of the faster mons are Electric-types), has STAB Earthquake (best move in this tier), and also has Rock Slide and Sucker Punch to cover Flying-types and pick off anything that may end up outspeeding it. Substitute sets are really good at exploiting the switches it can force. Dugtrio is probably offense's best tool for destroying opposing offense. Frailty and difficulty breaking through bulky Waters/Marowak/Exeggutors in the short term hold it back, but definitely still one of the best.

:blastoise-mega::slowbro-mega: Grouping together because they do roughly the same thing- be a bulky Water tank that throws off strong hits in return. Blastoise offers better special bulk, a real Speed tier, a significantly higher STAB damage output thanks to Hydro Pump (Slowbro only gets Surf), and can run Aqua Jet and physical options like Earthquake. Slowbro offers ridiculous physical bulk, insane coverage, Thunder Wave, a secondary STAB, and setup options that can potentially let you cheese a win. Pick whichever fits your team best.

:charizard-mega-x::charizard-mega-y: These things are somewhere from amazing to broken, not sure yet. Zard-X is obviously more consistent thanks to its reduced Stealth Rock weakness, but Zard-Y's immense power can be really hard to pass up. Might try my hand once again at finally coding correct Mega Evolution mechanics because I'd love to see how Zard would utilize the ability to choose the better Mega for the scenario, and how it might affect sets and viability.

:omastar: Omastar is terrifying in certain scenarios. If you don't have Jolteon, Starter Pikachu, or Electrode on your team, you don't have a Pokemon that can outspeed or Zippy Zap it after a Shell Smash and might just lose (especially if you don't have a bulky water or it was forced to take damage). If you have one of those Electric-types, you're probably okay. Matchup Fossil for sure

:pikachu-starter: Speaking of the rodent, it's actually good here! The power level is much more accomodating, and the lower amount of mons that stonewall it means it can function effectively as a revenge killer that can whittle things down throughout the game with its great coverage. Zippy Zap is, of course, invaluable priority in a format lacking conventional means of speed control.

That's all for now! Full resources and an early VR coming soon :blobthumbsup:


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I had a lot of time to kill tonight, so what better to do than continue to push this quaint tier? I've put together a Viability Rankings for the tier, complete with sample sets for everything down to B-! It's post #2 on this thread.
As this was made by me alone in a single night, it's bound to have inaccuracies- feel free to join the LGPE Discord and play some battles with us to help fine-tune it. ;)

One thing I want to mention, seeing as I called Tentacruel the top mon previously-
So what happened to make this turtle the face of the meta? To put it simply, I ran some calcs. Mega Blastoise is extremely tough to KO and even tougher to wall, making for a formidable tank that also has a really solid Speed tier. It feels a lot like Melmetal does in LGPE OU- a Tank that takes the role to another level, and it's proven itself to deserve the #1 spot through plenty of testing. I don't think it's unhealthy though, at least not yet!
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LGPE UU Sample Teams
(Please keep in mind that, because of LGPE UU's recent changes, these teams are relatively untested. I recommend using these teams as inspiration for your own!)

:kangaskhan-mega::tauros::eevee-starter::slowbro-mega::venusaur::jolteon: Triple Normal by Eve
:slowbro-mega::golbat::tauros::sandslash-alola::venusaur::jolteon: Golbat Balance by Eve
:kangaskhan-mega::pinsir-mega::tauros::eevee-starter::venusaur::kabutops: Kabutops Screens by juoean
:kangaskhan-mega::pinsir-mega::tauros::moltres::jolteon::sandslash-alola: Moltres Offense by juoean

Sample Teams Mega Pidgeot Balance by Eve Mega Blastoise Balance by Eve Kadabra HO by Eve Charizard X Screens (No Venomoth) by Eve

Old Samples: Mega Pinsir Screens by Eve Charizard X Screens by Eve and Collesque
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~ ik this is all very preliminary but thinking that venomoth should be S. its 'default' sludge bomb/ mega drain/ qd / roost (modest) is extremely hard to deal with at +1, the only pokemon that it doesnt outspeed are electrode which can only twave (not exactly a reliable way to deal with it since it can keep boosting) or explode (and explosion doesnt ko after rocks) and outspeeding +1 venomoth is literally its niche in the tier, pika-s does 37-49% with zippy zap depending on nature, and timid jolteon which speed ties and does less than 40% with tbolt. as for other offensive pokemon, for example zard x are almost ohko'ed at +1 after rocks, and m-blastoise cannot accomplish anything outside of dragon tail (and if m-blastoise also lacks aqua jet healthy venomoth can even set up in front of it); and the primary pokemon that resist its attack(s) like tentacruel, haunter to whatever extent that is relevant, cant damage it sufficiently so they just become set up bait instead, magneton can twave but that only rly helps due to the full paralysis chance. in general, outside of marowak-a either an opposing pokemon needs to be rly healthy or venomoth needs to be very weakened to check it at +1, and ofc some pokemon such as dugtrio just lose to it at +1 regardless.
venomoth's main issue is setting up, but it will almost always have an opportunity to set up at some point even without sleep powder.
and sleep powder can screw up an opposing healthy pokemon that expects to check the above set (obv that is luck dependent) in addition to making set up easier. sleep powder usually should replace roost, or it can be run mono attacking bug buzz but that loses important neutral coverage esp on mega zard and moltres.
(idt psychic should ever rly be run, poison types are rare itd mainly be for tentacruel and opposing venomoth, but tentacruel cant beat venomoth anyway and sleep powder is enough for the mirror matchup while still having use outside of that. idt there is any reason to run bug buzz except on mono attacking sets, +1 venomoth's matchup against opposing psychics is pretty good anyway, eg kadabra is ohko'ed by sludge bomb after rocks, and a healthy venomoth can boost a second time against m-slowbro and +2 mega drain will usually ko after rocks and recover almost as much health as it took from psychic at +2 (m-slowbro without psychic j loses), or alternatively +1 mega drain does 60-71%. modest should be the primary nature, all timid rly does is outspeed jolteon at +1 instead of speed tie, and outspeed a few pokemon unboosted but none of those are rly pokemon it can set up on anyway.)
i see venomoth's 'power level' as comparable to the prominent megas, but ofc it does not take the mega slot. i think it may often be hard to justify not using it on a team, bc usually the worst case scenario is that u set up and heavily damage something before being ko'ed, and it is so threatening if not considered in teambuilding to the point of eg singlehandedly making electrode viable.

~ base form pinsir is far too low (eg relative to other base forms). pinsir can be very hard to deal with because the pokemon that can revenge kill mega-pinsir often struggle with its base form. for example, jolteon does 53-69% depending on nature with tbolt and is ohkoed back by eq, and dugtrio does 41-50% with rock slide and is usually ohko'ed back by x-scissor. while eg most fire types that beat base form pinsir, are outsped by the mega form and are always ohko'ed, except zard x which is usually ohko'ed by eq after rocks. pinsir should almost always be used with a second mega bc in many cases it may not want to mega evolve at all. with no mew the increased speed tier isnt as important and even in base form it outspeeds quite a bit and with fire type attacks not having very good coverage in this tier, resisted by all the waters and having relatively little super effective coverage, its base defensive typing is solid outside of the rocks weakness.
i feel like pinsir as a whole is maybe not valued enough, bc outside of a few rarer checks, unless a team has both zard/moltres and a fast electric or dugtrio, whichever form it lacks an obvious check to can become a big threat.
i agree bulk up and sd are both viable, bulk up can help protect esp base form pinsir from eg dugtrio, pika-s's floaty fall, and maybe dodrio.

~ a few smol things:
- moltres should have agility here. wisp is of very limited usefulness with kabutops being the only physical water and u turn is rly hard for it to use as always. agility means it beats dugtrio instead of losing to it, allows it to usually beat zard x lacking outrage or dragon tail, and helps somewhat with electrics etc. moltres's offensive typing isnt great in this meta and it is complete bait for omastar (has to switch out directly to prevent multiple boosts and game over), but if u are going to use it it should have agility. and i dont think zard y is viable in this meta at all, the 100 base speed doesnt even matter that much here and other than having, like, dragon pulse for at least some decent damage on omastar to prevent it from boosting twice, it has no benefit over moltres and loses agility on top of taking the mega slot. (if the mechanic of choosing mega evolution in battle were implemented, this could change as it could run air slash and dpulse and choose which mega evolution to use based on matchup.)
- bulk up hitmonlee seems a bit low, its speed is a bit lacking in this tier but its bulk is decent on both sides at +1 and absurd power matched only by m-pinsir. other than m-slowbro it doesnt have any true counters, but there are the fast air slash/drill peck users here that can revenge kill it, along with the prob less common fast psychic types
- idk if electabuzz can go somewhere? neutral natured ice punch almost ohko's dugtrio after rocks which may give it a niche over other electrics. low kick can be used for magneton and both golem forms, reflect could help so u dont have to overpredict dugtrio switching in, twave. could even run thunder punch for an all physical set with adamant nature which can sometimes ohko dugtrio as well as better damage against eg tentacruel but much worse vs omastar and m-slowbro, or thunder for para chance since grounds other than marowak may hesitate to switch in. maybe hard to justify over pika-s but ice punch does more to dugtrio than splishy splash and electabuzz does better against opposing electrics since its special bulk is decent. def feels more viable than eg magmar which im not sure what that is doing ranked with an sr weakness and bad offensive typing for this tier.


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Great post!
~ Venomoth stuff
Yeah, this is something I've been considering. Venomoth is extremely powerful and easily the scariest setup wincon in the tier for exactly the reasons you listed. Nobody I've battled has used it though, so it's mostly theory, while the 2 current S tiers have been used several times and are proven to be massively powerful (if not somewhat broken in Zard's case). Definitely gonna make that set the main one btw, probably with Bug Buzz slashed after Mega Drain for better neutral damage against stuff like Magneton and Bro in a pinch (not getting Para'd can be big).

~ Pinsir stuff
Pinsir's main issue is that while there aren't a huge number of mons faster than it, those which are are very popular and typically several are found on any given UU team (I find it very hard to build UU teams without at least 2 of Jolteon, Dugtrio, Alolan Persian, Electrode, Starter Pika, Dodrio etc, all of which can typically RK it after it takes damage setting up). Between Stealth Rock usually being up and/or Pinsir simply hardly ever getting a great switchin opportunity that also enables safe setup, it's not too hard to prevent it from making too much progress- when it does get the right opportunity, however, it's a menace, hence Mega Pinsir's solid A- rating. Regular Pinsir probably warrants a rise, I agree, but I don't want to rank Mega Pinsir much higher for now. The Mega Evolutions ranked above it are generally better and more consistent, even at breaking, and out of those only Slowbro is really okay with giving up its Mega Evolution on dual mega teams as base Zard and Blastoise are pretty bad. Pinsir also typically mandates screens support to reach its full potential, and while screens are common and good in UU that's another teambuilding factor to consider compared to other Megas.

~ a few smol things:
- moltres
Agreed, Agility definitely looks way better, should have considered that. Honestly looks like a decently potent cleaner lategame in some scenarios as many teams are very offensive and let their waters get worn down in the midgame. Omastar isn't on every team and you usually won't get destroyed as long as you pair Moltres with something that pressures/tanks it and Jolteon as a safety measure if everything goes wrong, just never give it 2 turns of setup which is really the case in any matchup vs Omastar. Zard-Y is also probably worse than I'm giving it credit for as its raw power doesn't actually achieve much more than ZardX's in this tier and it's otherwise mostly worse, so I can see a drop making sense.

- bulk up hitmonlee
Agreed- this mon's damage is ridiculous, can't really say much more about it. It's not very complex.

- electabuzz
Electabuzz is a very interesting case. If you want a standalone elec you're often better off running any of Jolteon, Starter Pikachu, and Alolan Raichu, as their Speed tiers let them reliably outrun Pinsir and actually contribute to handling Dodrio (shakily in Raichu-A's case due to tying). Jolteon's Shadow Ball cleanly 2HKOs Dugtrio so it can threaten switchins similarly to Electabuzz (which actually requires more prior damage), and Jolteon can actually beat a weakened Dugtrio 1v1 which no amount of coverage could let Electabuzz do. Maybe running Electabuzz alongside Jolteon could be viable though, as both can help bust through checks for each other and Electabuzz actually threatens Alolan Exeggutor while Jolteon can provide screens for safer entry. Such a core would probably have very real ZardX issues as you'd also want a Grass alongside them to pivot in on Dugtrio/Golem/Marowak in unfavourable scenarios, but slotting TWave or Toxic somewhere on the two would help alleviate that at least and so would a Mega Blastoise.

Gonna go ahead and update a few of these sample sets, will also probably be discussing VR changes in the Discord! We don't have a council right now so any opinions are appreciated, especially from those who have experience with LGPE.
~ true at venomoth and i agree with that at slashing bug buzz with mega drain. bug buzz hits all the rocks and grounds in the tier neutrally anyway so it is def an option instead of mega drain, mainly losing the recovery and the ohko on omastar/kabutops/golem at +1. i think they could prob be slashed in either order (but sludge bomb should never be dropped)
~ mostly agree at pinsir. also maybe worth noting that pinsir can drop a boosting move to set stealth rock, it can set rocks safely against most of the tier other than zard x, its obv bulkier than dugtrio so it can take a hit on the turn it sets rocks and has a better speed and more consistent defensive typing than any other rocks setters. it 'obv' should almost never be mega evolving if it is being used to set rocks.
~ electabuzz is a good user of twave anyway since ice punch or low kick nearly 2hko i think every para immune pokemon in the tier except marowak, and zard x cant rly function well at all paralyzed so idk that id be concerned about that specifically. and timid jolteon's shadow ball only has a 3% chance to 2hko dugtrio after rocks, but regardless evthg u said makes sense and i see how electabuzz's viability is a lil questionable. (at the core you suggested, pairing them with moltres might be better than a grass type, low kick will bring golem very close to fire blast ko range to set up a moltres sweep, and marowak might run thunder punch and/or ice beam instead of rock slide and regardless if moltres can switch into earthquake it can prob force marowak out tho modest fire blast doesnt ohko. dealing with dugtrio would be very prediction dependent but dugtrio is usually not a big issue for a moltres team and semi checking it with eg mega slowbro or mega blastoise is fine. while the electrics help moltres with its omastar weakness)

btw the bulky grass types seem rly high? if the reason is to check grounds, idk bc exeggutor-a is 2hko'ed by marowak's ice beam and they both are 3hko'ed by golem's rock slide which is arguably its most spammable move since the main rock resists are rly phys frail (dugtrio and hitmonlee). every water type in the tier other than sometimes m-slowbro always carries ice coverage and exeggutor-a's fire neutrality isnt worth much since its weak to both zard x's and moltres's secondary stabs but at least it checks jolteon. idk is their checking dugtrio and a few other smol niches rly enough to warrant an A rank? esp when exeggutor-a is outsped and ohko'ed by so many key pokemon in the tier
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putting comments related to ranking first, then 'other notes' at the bottom of the post

1. ranking suggestions followed by explanations ~

possible drops:
m-blastoise ~ S to A+
articuno ~ A- to (C ranks somewhere)
zard y ~ A- to unranked
haunter ~ A- to B+/B
magneton ~ A- to B+
exeggutor-a ~ A to A-

possible rises:
tauros and pika-s ~ B+ to A-
ninetales-a ~ C+ to B/B-
arbok ~ C+ to B-
pinsir ~ C to B
raichu-a ~ B to B+
golem-a ~ B- to B/B+
golbat ~ C- to C+

While it is true that m-blastoise has excellent 1v1s with most of the meta, it also has a lot of relatively neutral matchups (which is very different from melmetal in ou, a comparison eve suggested) since it has few resistances, and it forces out very little, obv it also lacks recovery. so the opponent can significantly influence what pokemon they want to use to trade damage with it, or alternatively can attack it with whatever it comes in against.
zard x is very hard to give up in this tier, and if u compare the two zard x also has excellent 1v1s with most of the meta, in many of which it can use roost freely and therefore win without taking damage overall. if u are giving up zard x it is probably for something with a much different role, most likely m-slowbro which provides team support in twave and/or sweeping potential.
m-blastoise's best features are its positive matchups with zard x and m-slowbro, and that is how it is most likely to be used to semi-check those two huge threats, but ofc running it prevents using either of those threats yourself. otherwise, zard x is almost always better since it can do a lot more than 1v1 one opposing pokemon.

moveset wise, it has a lot of flexibility in a sense but at the same time it doesn't. if you arent running dark pulse (or dragon tail) you no longer check cm m-slowbro at all, which is losing the biggest advantage of using m-blastoise over zard x. if you arent running aqua jet (or dragon tail), you are setup bait for venomoth which is extremely dangerous to most teams at +1, and even with aqua jet you need hydro pump [or surf with a rash nature] to have decent odds to prevent it from setting up. if you run hydro pump over surf and do not run dragon pulse (or dragon tail), u no longer beat zard x with consistency.
while dragon tail does 'compress' a lot of these roles, it is not rly a great move for m-blastoise in this tier, since it does minimal damage and most opponents will be attacking m-blastoise directly rather than trying to switch into it since it has so many neutral matchups. eg taking paralysis in order to phaze m-slowbro to prevent it from setting up calm mind is far worse than 2hkoing it with dark pulse.
im not really sure what articuno is doing in A-, its typing is bad offensively and defensively as well as its 4x rocks weakness, the suggested moveset of sub/toxic seems reasonable (i guess), but the two primary toxic immune pokemon in the tier (tenta and magneton) resist ice and are bad matchups esp if tenta has scald to thaw, it is outsped and ohko'ed after rocks by a lottt, that set is also setup bait for venomoth outside of freezes (and ofc omastar too) and im not sure what articuno is offering to offset all these weaknesses. for example how is articuno better than like, golbat? its better bulk is mostly offset by its bad typing eg being weak to fire and 4x weak to rock slide, golbat has actual coverage with eg sludge bomb + mega drain, and doesnt rly need substitute bc of its poison immunity or toxic bc of stab sludge bomb, so it can run whirlwind instead. articuno does get agility and ice shard but idk if it can really use either. golbat at least has a specific role as the only venomoth check that has recovery, what threats is articuno checking. idk if im missing something bc i dont understand articuno in a- at all and i made that comparison bc somewhere in c rank seems appropriate to me.
to elaborate on why i dont rly think zard y should be ranked at all, zard x's typing is so good here esp defensively, while zard y's typing leaves it easily ohko'ed after rocks by dugtrio and the electrics ie basically all of the tier's revenge killers; so its 4x rocks weakness is an even bigger problem here than in ou, on top of being setup bait for omastar/kabutops. and its stabs have bad neutral coverage with all the rock types in the tier, and it generally does worse than zard x against the waters too bc of its defensive typing. zard y provides nothing over zard x, yes i know the spa is higher but there are 0 matchups in this tier where zard y does better than zard x, it opens you up to all the electric revenge killers as well as aqua jet along with the 4x rocks weakness while providing (?? slightly better matchups vs fighting types bc of air slash? but those are pretty favorable matchups anyway. ??) in return
haunter is a bit too slow for such a frail pokemon, and its typing doesnt offer that much in practice, offensively or defensively. it does have a 4x resistance to venomoth's stabs but it is a very inconsistent check to roost venomoth bc it is a special attacker and cant hit it hard enough. i think it belongs maybe around the same rank as mr mime.
moveset wise, sludge bomb has excellent neutral coverage in the tier and is very spammable, shadow ball is honestly more for hitting a few specific pokemon (magneton and venomoth neutrally, opposing haunter, jynx and (m-)slowbro super effectively) and tbh can probably be dropped for psychic if desired which still ohkos in the mirror and improves haunter's chances to 1v1 vs venomoth at the cost of not being able to hit magneton neutrally.
mega drain should prob be on most sets, as the best coverage move for stab sludge bomb in this tier, and specifically ohkoing golem-k (in addition to omastar/kabutops). assuming shadow ball is run in the second moveslot and not psychic, the fourth slot should prob be used for taunt or maybe hypnosis to improve the venomoth matchup. at +2 venomoth is barely 3hko'ed by shadow ball after rocks, but 3hko's haunter also, so if taunt haunter comes in against a +1 venomoth it should be ok if it is at higher health. (if venomoth has mega drain the calc is worse due to the recovery.) if u are running psychic, that probably pressures venomoth sufficiently in most cases so the fourth slot can go to eg thunder(bolt) to hit m-blastoise and m-slowbro harder than sludge bomb/mega drain and if thunder also for the 21% paralysis chance, or st else like wisp, sub, or sucker.

even with taunt, haunter is not really a consistent check to +1 venomoth, and since outside of that it has little to no defensive utility and it is a bit too slow a ranks seems too high. i think its somewhat comparable to mr. mime in basically being a worse kadabra (due to lower speed) outside of its specific defensive uses (for mr mime, mainly semi-checking any zard x lacking flare blitz). however, mr. mime is prob a bit low in B-, and since only a few mons in the tier can defensively check +1 venomoth rly at all (and none of the others are very good), haunter sort-of-kind-of checking +1 venomoth is probably important enough to give it a B or maybe even B+ ranking.
outside of being able to paralyze boosted venomoth, magneton's unique steel typing isnt as helpful as one would like in practice, eg it outright loses to raichu-a anyway and does only decently against other psychic attackers due to its poor special bulk. clefable basically outclasses it outside of the venomoth matchup, having an overall better defensive typing, better stab coverage, better support movepool in calm mind and filling the teams need for stealth rock, and spreading paralysis better due to the fast electrics being bad switchins to any other move (except encore raichu-a which can also switch into calm mind). magneton needs twave as otherwise it cannot fill its niche of semi-checking venomoth, which leaves it only one flexible moveslot, and giving up tri attack is not ideal to say the least. in comparison to arbok, it has a much worse matchup with opposing electrics and dugtrio, but brings other advantages notably doing far better vs m-slowbro, immunity to paralysis, and also being able to paralyze outrage locked zard x (ik it seems like a weird comparison but i think they are actually somewhat similar in this meta, having the same primary niche and a lot of other similar matchups even if for different reasons).
also while magneton does get some useful resistances so it can actually switch in (sometimes) despite its special frailty, on the other hand its dual stab is resisted by other electrics as well as zard x, tho the latter is obv crippled by twave so zard x switching in directly is risky, but still magneton is not as hard to switch into as its spatk stat suggests. and using mag likely means forgoing the fast electrics which magneton does not fill the roles of except for checking +2 kabutops.
exeggutor-a is overall worse than exeggutor-k and the rankings should reflect that.

in terms of defensive typing, exeggutor-k checks calm mind m-slowbro, clefable and raichu-a far better than the alolan form does, particularly combined with leech seed which prevents boosted m-slowbro from using rest effectively and checks even +2 raichu-a. exeggutor-k's weakness to dugtrio's sucker punch is significantly mitigated by leech seed as well. exeggutor-a's 4x ice weakness also leaves it outsped and ohkoed by unboosted oma and most m-blastoise, while exeggutor-k's 4x bug weakness is less important, mainly matters for unboosted kabutops, also primeape and base form pinsir, but these are obv pokemon that are less important than omastar and the water type megas and are easier for teammates to deal with. exeggutor-k being weak to jolteon's shadow ball is significant but does not make up for all these other disadvantages. (exeggutor-a's neutrality to fire doesnt provide much since eg zard x and moltres still hit it super effectively with their secondary stabs)

offensively, psychic prevents venomoth from setting up on exeggutor-k, while exeggutor-a is forced to run dragon tail in order to not be venomoth bait. psychic and mega drain have excellent neutral coverage generally, hitting everything neutrally except the frail magneton and opposing exeggutor-k, and psychic covering victreebel or exeggutor-a that might try to come in on leech seed (or mega drain). exeggutor-a's access to flamethrower isnt too important in this tier, rly its only useful to give it a better chance against exeggutor-k and maybe victreebel, i wouldnt drop earthquake as i see that as its main draw over exeggutor-k but with the exception of jolteon earthquake is mainly covering pokemon that exeggutor-k does at least as well against anyway, eg raichu-a and tentacruel. dragon tail is important unless u are running one of the rare true venomoth checks, but that takes another moveslot, and its not rly a great dragon tail user in this tier with a lot of bad matchups bc of its weaknesses.

stat wise, the speed drop matters more than the phys attack, esp since exeggutor-a might run -speed to not reduce the power of eq/dtail. eg it loses the speed tie on oma, no longer outspeeds golems, and ofc is outsped by the kantonian form which it therefore loses to 1v1 unless it drops a more generally important move (prob eq or dtail) for flamethrower.

in terms of movepool, exeggutor-k can run leech seed plus a second utility move (screen, sleep powder, or teleport) while exeggutor-a doesnt rly have room for any non damaging move. leech seed is extremely useful in this tier, with basically only one bulky recovery move user (zard x), and many setup attackers that can benefit greatly from leech seed recovery to help them set up. so for example leech seed + screen can either help exeggutor keep itself healthy, or can provide a safe entry point for a teammate to set up.

one caveat i have for this comment is that exeggutor-a could maybe be a good paralysis spreader with earthquake + stun spore, and stun spore removing the need for dtail for venomoth. but stun spore isnt listed as a suggestion, idk if anyone has tried such a set, and assuming dragon pulse is used in the fourth moveslot opposing egg-k can block stun spore once it is revealed.

sorry this description is a little disorganized but i feel it is clear enough to show that exeggutor-k is mostly better than its alolan counterpart in this tier.

this is largely to cover the gap of everything dropped from A-. regardless, its speed tier is excellent and it has decent matchups with the few pokemon that outspeed it, taking 50-58% from jolteon's tbolt and 38-46% from dugtrio's eq while usually and always ohkoing back (after rocks) respectively. it can use its last two moveslots for whatever it wants since double edge + eq provides perfect coverage: outrage to revenge zard x more effectively and also hit exeggutor-a, with usually minimal consequences of being locked in (eg omastar cannot set up twice in front of an outrage locked tauros), rock slide for flinches and to avoid double edge recoil against super effective targets, headbutt for flinches or facade for burn as well as providing an alternate stab move without recoil when the greater power is not needed, thrash for late game sweeping.
tauros can be used either as a revenge killer, or a wallbreaker with its good bulk and strong stab, its def not at the level of dugtrio but it does have some advantages esp not being vulnerable to aqua jet (and ice shard) and not rly being checked by anything (while eggs check dugtrio pretty well) or more likely can be used alongside dugtrio, its pretty splashable. i def think it can be in A- maybe even A.
also mostly to cover the gap left in A-. this is less clear to me than tauros, but i think pika-s's alternative options for its fourth moveslot (replacing thunderbolt) give it some flexibility / unpredictability that can bring it into A-, as thunderbolt is really mainly important for m-slowbro, as it only helps with omastar and kabutops if they are unboosted. 1 dig does 65-77% to calm mind raichu-a, enabling pika-s to revenge kill raichu-a instead of being setup bait for it, sometimes ohko's magneton, and can maybe catch 'other electrics' ie jolteon trying to switch into (any of its other moves). 2 running thunder rather than tbolt alongside zippy zap provides more power for when zippy zap is not strong enough at the cost of accuracy, and also provides a stab move with a higher paralysis chance to deter eg zard x from switching in, giving it a more clearly differentiated function alongside zippy zap. 3 brick break could be useful to break screens, esp since a lot of screen setters are electric types which can otherwise use pika-s as an opportunity to set screens, and also provides coverage for magneton.

the fourth move can be selected to cover a team weakness, dig for cm/encore raichu-a which is threatening to some teams, brick break for teams weak to screen sweepers that pika-s cant revenge very consistently eg mega drain venomoth or leech life kabutops, and at the same time the opponent really cant scout for the fourth move so they have to guess in advance eg is their raichu-a set to sweep or is it a good opportunity to set screen(s).
my reason for raising ninetales-a's rank is ice shard, which even with a timid nature does ~50% to dugtrio, protecting ninetales-a from what is otherwise the main threat to revenge kill it, and also doing 31-37% to dodrio. this is especially true for calm mind sets, which since the other main revenge killers are special attackers and cannot hit it super effectively so a cm boosted alolan ninetales can only rly be revenge killed by pika-s and tauros. this means it can wallbreak, esp against teams lacking either of those two pokemon, rather than being limited to sweeping. ninetales-a doesnt have great coverage regardless so being able to run only two of ice beam, dazzling gleam, dark pulse isnt losing that much (ofc it leaves no room for hypnosis. and ice beam should rly never be dropped). ice shard also helps with venomoth, eg +1 ice beam followed by ice shard usually ko's venomoth after rocks, and provides some protection from cm/encore raichu-a, ofc as well as random extra chip damage against faster electrics etc. either to get a ko or before being ko'ed.

ninetales-a still definitely has significant issues in the tier, its damage output is a lil low in general as well as being pretty completely countered by tentacruel and magneton and ofc crippled by paralysis, but with the flexibility provided by ice shard i think it fits much better somewhere in the b-tier, maybe somewhat comparable to pokemon such as raichu-a and mr. mime, and its rocks weakness is mitigated by rarely having to switch out once it sets up cm, and sometimes it is even usable as a lead.
arbok is interesting as a venomoth check, it is a good para spreader since it has eq for electrics, poison jab really isnt a bad stab esp with eq coverage, and earthquake + sucker punch + glare is more than adequate to check boosted venomoth. i wouldnt run mega drain bc then u no longer check venomoth if u are weakened, and having sucker punch for dugtrio and psychics, and revenge killing other targets eg boosted omastar, is more important than mega drain for (golem and kabutops?).

unlike muk-k, arbok can be placed on a variety of teams that are worried about venomoth / give it setup opportunities, if you see venomoth in team preview just preserve arbok to check it (taking care around a potential sleep powder, but thats true of checking venomoth in general); while against teams without venomoth, arbok can be used early game instead, to spread paralysis and attack which it does reasonably effectively, although it is ohkoed by (jolly) zard x's earthquake but everything else that outspeeds and ohko's it (dugtrio and psychics) takes >50% from sucker punch. this is very different from muk-k which struggles offensively and therefore if the opponent doesnt have a specific threat for it to check, mainly venomoth or omastar, may not accomplish much.
Pinsir is a pretty splashable rocks setter, unlike dugtrio it doesnt die to almost any attack on the turn it sets rocks, and the only pokemon that can outspeed and ohko it (to deny rocks) is zard x (and timid moltres, but moltres is likely to prefer modest as an agility sweeper). while clefable is prob usually better than pinsir overall as an excellent para spreader and even better def typing, pinsir has some advantages with its better speed tier, better attack stat and coverage, and while bug stab isnt rly great in this tier it does let pinsir revenge kill m-slowbro regardless of cm boosts as well as hitting the egg forms. on fast offensive teams or teams that tend to spread a different status (eg teams with tentacruel) pinsir may be the go-to rocks setter, especially since zard x (the main pokemon that pinsir cant set rocks in front of) may be less of a threat for such teams. as a bonus, pinsir cant be distinguished between a rocks setter and its offensive mega sd set from preview, and it also has the option to m-evolve, which might be relevant for eg preventing a chipped zard x from coming in to force it out, since pinsir has the possibility to mega evolve to outspeed and ko it with earthquake. it doesnt rly check anything for the team except m-slowbro, it has few weaknesses but also few resistances and ofc is weak to rocks, but i def think it can go somewhere in the b ranks for its role as a sturdy stealth rock setter that can also hit hard and has a good speed tier.
raichu-a deserves to be the top ranked psychic type in the tier due to its immunity to paralysis. raichu-a's access to encore, which i would rarely drop in this tier, can act as a deterrent to opposing pokemon trying to spread paralysis, as if raichu-a can switch into twave it is 50/50 to get a free turn, and it is not rly a bad switchin to twave users such as clefable and m-slowbro anyway if u mispredict. encore also prevents opposing calm mind users and can sometimes catch other status moves esp screens. (calm mind, on the other hand, can be dropped for toxic, which also pairs well with encore and if you are concerned about the zard x matchup, tho note u will no longer beat magneton without calm mind).
unlike jolt and pika-s, raichu-a cannot check +2 omastar, but ofc neither can the tier's other psychic types, tho it does check dodrio pretty well, speed tying and fearing only a potential thrash at +2. its paralysis immunity, secondary stab and encore set it apart from say kadabra, tho it doesnt hit as hard (unboosted) and ofc it has usable bulk.
since the most prominent ground type in this tier is dugtrio, golem-a is actually quite usable as a paralysis spreader (eg unlike in ou) since earthquake sometimes or always ohkos electrics and does major damage to dugtrio even without stab. (neutral natured) golem-a also outspeeds anything under base 100s paralyzed, and has a strong flinch move in stab rock slide, so it can often take better advantage of the paralysis it spreads than eg clefable or arbok can.
thunder punch is certainly usable, but twave is perfectly adequate for threatening any potential water type switchin with arguably the exception of m-slowbro, as tentacruel really cannot function at all paralyzed and other waters become outsped and therefore susceptible to paraflinch, and stealth rock sets dont rly have room for it as eq/rock slide/twave is the most consistent set. however, on paralysis centered teams clefable is much more consistent as a rocks setter but golem-a may still be very useful for both spreading para and esp for taking advantage of paralyzed pokemon, so thunder punch is a good option to replace srock in the fourth slot (other possible fourth move is explosion but golem-a can be very hard for a heavily paralyzed team to deal with so thunder punch may often be preferred).

the 4x eq weakness obv rly sucks leaving it ohkoed by most zard x, but it also survives eg tentacruel's surf/scald, +1 venomoth's mega drain (or bug buzz), pika-s's bouncy bubble, and +2 kabutops' aqua jet (tho it is at risk for rock slide flinch) unlike its kantonian form, and all of those obv hate paralysis and/or are koed by golem-a's attacks.
im unsure how to rank it as golem-a is by far most likely to be found on para heavy teams but def think b- is too low.

nature is flexible, adamant is default but even jolly is possible on para heavy teams to outspeed parad base 100s-105s esp zard x, and also to outspeed golem-k; careful lets it survive eg quiet victreebels mega drain and take less from the other electrics when it needs to take a hit from them; impish lets it usually survive +2 dodrio's jump kick after rocks but dodrio is unlikely to have a set up opportunity against a para heavy team anyway.
im uncertain about this one and when i initially was comparing golbat to articuno C- seemed right for golbat since its a lil slow, too frail to use roost with much consistency esp with rocks weakness, and has trouble with all the electrics. but i dont think its (anywhere near) as bad as the pokemon in C and C-.

defensively, in addition to being the only venomoth counter (once sleep clause is active), and the only venomoth check with recovery, golbat easily walls tentacruel (and will eventually win 1v1 if tenta stays in); it is the second best kabutops check (after tenta) tho kabutops has a 30% chance to survive mega drain after rocks but otherwise (eg if kabutops has taken any chip damage) golbat takes ~50% from +2 aqua jet and will recover most of that back with mega drain; golbat can check (standard, twave + cm monoattacking) +1 clefable tho it may have to take para in doing so; tauros only rly consistently beats it if running rock slide, through flinches (with double edge tauros will likely die to recoil before breaking through to ko, depending on both pokemon's hp ofc, and with thrash tauros will be dependent on hitting through confusion, unless it gets high rolls to break through before thrash ends); and some slower pokemon eg fighting types other than primeape may occasionally need to make 50/50 predictions whether it will roost bc of the changed defensive typing.

while offensively it is obviously weak, sludge bomb is a good move in the tier, and outside of venomoth and tentacruel, both which are countered by golbat, every common sludge bomb resist except magneton is weak to mega drain (only 'exceptions' are haunter, arbok, muk, and opposing golbat, none of which are very good and haunter is the only one of those that can beat golbat 1v1 anyway), and other than dugtrio which doesnt want to switch into damaging moves directly (or risk poison status) they are all slower than golbat so they dont switch in at all. so against teams without magneton or haunter, golbat can use sludge bomb freely without worrying about a potential switch in (but ofc often it will want to roost instead esp with rocks weakness).
while golbat does not exactly force out the exeggutor forms, as its super effective stab sludge bomb still does only 54-64% due to its bad spatk, that is still more damage than either exeggutor generally wants to take, and the egg user will be put in a position of either having to take the damage and be very weakened or switch out and have something like jolteon or zard x take the 25-30% ish sludge bomb damage and possible poison.
i think golbat can probably be in C+ with muk, both are defensively inclined venomoth checks with few checks (muk is walled by tenta) and obv muk's poison jab is stronger but on the other hand it is much slower, and golbats def typing is ofc better eg is never koed by dugtrio after rocks so outside of a rock slide flinch it will survive and do 50-60% back with mega drain (which dugtrio will almost never want to risk if it is in ko range so it will switch out rather than going for rs flinch). its a lil hard to compare them bc theyd fit on different teams but i think for now they belong in the same rank without either having clear advantages over the other.

if people are able to develop teams that can fully take advantage of golbat's defensive roles, i could 'imagine' it rising into the B ranks, but idk. zard x is probably a mandatory partner, as another recovery user, the best pokemon to take advantage of an electric type that ko'ed golbat (or maybe can switch in to an electric directly, but probably not), while golbat can maybe protect it from certain earthquake users and allow zard x or teammates to not overly worry about giving kabutops a set up turn. golbat is far from a consistent/sturdy ground check tho, but it can maybe back up an exeggutor form. teleport exeggutor-k specifically could be an interesting teammate, as leech seed recovery can enable golbat to check threats it otherwise couldnt, while also providing an additional way to pressure opposing exeggutor-k by using teleport in the mirror. idk, it seems very hard to try to build that kind of defensive team in this tier. but again even if that is not a viable team structure golbat still has various defensive uses, and in situations where trying to stay healthy with roost loses too much momentum, it can usually use sludge bomb freely instead.

my assumption here is golbat is running sludge bomb / mega drain / whirlwind / roost. wing attack is an alternative way to check venomoth over whirlwind, but u are probably still going to want sludge bomb and mega drain regardless bc wing attack has bad neutral coverage. note if u run wing attack over whirlwind you cannot risk a burn against venomoth teams (tho idk if venomoth is likely to be paired with tenta anyway). wing attack does provide you a way to hit haunter (timid wing attack does 40-47%), and might also help for like, unboosted hitmonlee, and vileplume. i feel like whirlwind probably has more general usefulness, esp to deter potential zard x switchins, but u probably arent using that moveslot too often outside of the venomoth mu regardless.
~ wing attack sets could maybe try to fit u-turn, maybe over mega drain, but then u no longer check +2 kabutops which is something you probably want from golbat, or maybe over sludge bomb, but then u are not only giving up your stronger stab move but also the 30% poison chance which is important for deterring many possible switchins eg zard x takes irrelevant damage from wing attack, and ofc so do the electrics, so u will be very dependent on u-turn. still, wing attack/ u-turn / mega drain isnt horrible coverage wise, and the set would play significantly differently from the sludge bomb / mega drain set by pivoting rather than threatening status, so that set diversity might give some benefit.

i wanted to put a few notes abt other pokemon, not about rank

~ zard x can (prob usually should) be mixed, eg timid sets running fire blast /dpulse rly want earthquake (or possibly thunder punch) for tentacruel, and in some cases other specially bulkier pokemon such as cm raichu-a, cm mr mime, vaporeon. wisp really isnt needed for fire blast/dpulse sets since dpulse already 2hko's golem and kabutops, wisp doesnt rly help with kabutops anyway due to swords dance, and it doesnt rly have other important targets. beating tentacruel is far more important and earthquake is strong enough regardless of -attack nature (and even timid thunder punch easily 2hkos tentacruel). running one special and one physical stab is also very viable, since running flare blitz + outrage can have issues when neither recoil nor being locked in is desirable.
~ tentacruel should have mirror coat at least slashed, it really messes up electrics (other than pika-s which cant ohko and takes a lot of damage back anyway) as well as kadabra/jynx/etc, also beats any zard x that arent running a physical move (lol), and toxic rly isnt that useful for tenta since stab sludge bomb is almost always a better move to click for neutral targets and all resists that arent toxic immune are weak to its water stab and/or mega drain. mirror coat can also help with some venomoth, tho tentacruel is generally still just losing to roost venomoth (as long as the venomoth user plays attentively) but it messes up venomoth that lack roost and therefore rely on recovery from boosted mega drain to be able to break tentacurel (note that even +6 mega drain doesnt ohko). the fourth moveslot rly isnt needed for anything else and the way it improves the electric matchups alone makes mirror coat almost always worth running or at least worth consideration.
with mirror coat tenta can also consider +spdef nature, as against pokemon such as jynx mr mime haunter it will mainly be relying on mirror coat anyway, tho it is losing out on the speed tie with zard x.
~ clefable should generally run moonblast / twave / calm mind / stealth rock. running rocks on a teammate is almost never preferable as clefable needs the moveslot far less than eg omastar or kabutops, and with its good bulk and excellent def typing the cost of the turn it takes to set rocks is lower than for any other setter, especially if clefable can paralyze st and then set rocks immediately after. tbolt has two targets, tentacruel and moltres, but they both detest para anyway, and flamethrower/fblast is solely for magneton, which doesnt switch into moonblast that well anyway since it is specially frail and rly doesnt like the spa drop chance either, these moves are almost never worth the moveslot for their very limited targets. twave is needed for zard x (also synergizes well with setting stealth rock), particularly enabling clefable to punish zard x that is locked into outrage, and calm mind is also mandatory esp vs the fast electrics which might try to block twave but with the exception of encore raichu-a do badly if they switch into calm mind. clefable's role is as a effective para spreader and very sturdy rocks setter and it needs all four of those moves to fill that role, while a second damaging move is not needed for that role and brings very little. thunderbolt is basically just worse than twave, and a fire type move may have some usefulness but it has to hit magneton on the switch and magneton isnt usually that hard to switch into anyway since all the other electrics resist its dual stab (jolteon takes max 34% from modest tri attack even if magneton predicts and is using that move), and obv even more so if it takes a moonblast spatk drop on the switch in. im not sure how good magneton is in the tier to begin with and given all these factors i think it is rarely if ever worth it for clefable to give up one of its four essential moves to run fire type coverage just for magneton.
~ i dont think victreebel should be trying to run sd in this meta, its too slow, there is very little it can set up on, and it really needs the moveslot as without poison stab it has nothing for zard x, which is presumably the reason for running sd as the primary recovery user in the tier. i think a much better set is *sludge bomb* / mega drain or power whip / sucker punch / sleep powder. sludge bomb does much better damage to zard x (38-45%) and also moltres than poison jab and ofc has higher bp so should always be the poison stab used; mega drain is prob usually preferred for grass stab to provide recovery, esp against dugtrio as long as vic is out of eq range, but power whip is better vs tentacruel (esp since it avoids mirror coat) and arguably better vs ice beam m-blastoise. sucker punch helps with raichu-a / psychics and haunter, and priority is generally rly useful in this tier and it somewhat mitigates vic's low speed, even without a boosting move it still does good damage to most of its potential targets which are either weak to it or are very physically frail (mainly pika-s, also dugtrio and mr mime), so not having room to run swords dance rly isnt that big of an issue. and sleep powder (or maybe stun spore is possible) to cripple whatever and is also there to not be setup bait for venomoth. could run +speed to outpace neutral m-blastoise but otherwise just run -speed bc it still outspeeds evthg else it needs to (neutral clefable and below) and to preserve its already mediocre bulk. B ranks is prob fine since egg forms fit onto teams more easily since they check dugtrio, maybe B is a better description than B- since vic will have good opportunities to come in against most teams with its defensive typing even with its not great bulk, and outside of zard x and to some extent moltres it rarely has truly bad matchups (basically just ninetales-a which outspeeds, almost ohkos with ice beam, and doesnt care about sucker punch; and maybe substitute or will-o-wisp haunter but mega drain does break the substitute while wisp means taking sleep powder the next turn, and haunter may often be four attacks anyway (see haunter in drop nomination) in which case sucker punch ohkos). and i think vics good 1v1 matchup against egg forms is important.
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While it is true that m-blastoise has excellent 1v1s with most of the meta, it also has a lot of relatively neutral matchups (which is very different from melmetal in ou, a comparison eve suggested) since it has few resistances, and it forces out very little, obv it also lacks recovery. so the opponent can significantly influence what pokemon they want to use to trade damage with it, or alternatively can attack it with whatever it comes in against.
zard x is very hard to give up in this tier, and if u compare the two zard x also has excellent 1v1s with most of the meta, in many of which it can use roost freely and therefore win without taking damage overall. if u are giving up zard x it is probably for something with a much different role, most likely m-slowbro which provides team support in twave and/or sweeping potential.
m-blastoise's best features are its positive matchups with zard x and m-slowbro, and that is how it is most likely to be used to semi-check those two huge threats, but ofc running it prevents using either of those threats yourself. otherwise, zard x is almost always better since it can do a lot more than 1v1 one opposing pokemon.

moveset wise, it has a lot of flexibility in a sense but at the same time it doesn't. if you arent running dark pulse (or dragon tail) you no longer check cm m-slowbro at all, which is losing the biggest advantage of using m-blastoise over zard x. if you arent running aqua jet (or dragon tail), you are setup bait for venomoth which is extremely dangerous to most teams at +1, and even with aqua jet you need hydro pump or surf with a rash nature to have decent odds to prevent it from setting up. if you run hydro pump over surf and do not run dragon pulse (or dragon tail), u no longer beat zard x with consistency.
while dragon tail does 'compress' a lot of these roles, it is not rly a great move for m-blastoise in this tier, since it does minimal damage and most opponents will be attacking m-blastoise directly rather than trying to switch into it since it has so many neutral matchups. eg taking paralysis in order to phaze m-slowbro to prevent it from setting up calm mind is far worse than 2hkoing it with dark pulse.
A lot of this seems fairly innaccurate to me, and seems to assume that the standard Blastoise set is that which it runs in OU. This couldn't be farther from the truth.
Standard Mega Blastoise (currently) runs Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Earthquake, and Rock Slide. This may seem crazy as it can't slap Mega Slowbro with Dark Pulse, but in all honesty, nobody is using Mega Slowbro, and especially not as a sweeper. It's just not that scary when most teams have an Exeggutor or Jolteon/Magneton, if not both, as setup sets will almost always be forced to Rest before they can accumulate enough boosts to survive 3 hits from them (and may get forced to spam Rest anyway, which leaves it open to getting crit). As a tank, Mega Blastoise is also generally better thanks to its fewer weaknesses, the redundancy of Psychic's added resistances, and its superior mixed bulk, power, and Speed allowing it to pose more of a threat in return. Rock Slide means you check Venomoth if necessary (Venomoth is still ridiculous and we will probably test/ban it, but this admittedly does alright), and also mauls the likes of Articuno and Mega Pinsir. Earthquake does a good amount to Mega Charizard X, and even if Hydro Pump can miss, it's rarely worth the ZardX risking it. It also lets you bypass Tentacruel and Electric-types far easier, most notably reliably dispatching of Magneton while also outspeeding. Mega Blastoise is simply a nightmare to deal with for the vast majority of builds and there isn't much the opponent can do about it, while also functioning as a greatly valuable defensive stopgap, and as such it absolutely deserves its position in S imo. (also ZardX is not that hard to replace, but it's also probably broken lol)

Also as for the Exeggutors, I think they're very close in viability and don't feel at all sure about dropping Alolan a whole subrank lower. Not being weak to Shadow Ball or Sucker Punch is absolutely massive for Alolan Exeggutor, allowing it to perform a Grasses main two roles (handling the most common Electric and Ground Pokemon, Jolteon and Dugtrio) much more reliably. Omastar can be handled by other means much more successfully (usually via Jolteon or Mega Blastoise), and Dragon Tail isn't 100% necessary as Light Screen is a very solid option for Exeggutor-Alola that it regularly sets up (most of the Pokemon that threaten it are special attackers). This lets its teammates better handle Venomoth- handling Venomoth is, realistically, ridiculous no matter what you bring though (unless you have, like, Haze Golbat or something).

I like pretty much everything else here though. Honestly Kadabra and maybe Alolan Raichu could go higher- having used Kadabra, fast strong STAB Psychic really cannot be underrated in this meta. The only Steel-type is specially frail, Exeggutor and Slowbro hate Shadow Ball on switchin, and possibly the best answer, Alolan Persian, can't stomach Dazzling Gleams. It really does feel like a top-tier offensive threat, with the only things really holding it back being its vulnerability to strong priority options and how it sits below the 110 Speed tier (both of which can be circumvented with clever use of Substitute, imo by far its best fourth move). Looking at it now, it's what Haunter wishes it was, and I could see it in A-. I haven't really seen enough Alolan Raichu to pass certain judgement but I can see how its Pinsir-trolling, Dodrio-scaring Speed tier, Electric typing and Encore should really warrant B+ at the lowest. Thanks for posting again!
~ *edit: m-blastoise's rock slide never ohkos venomoth after rocks (idk why i didnt realize this at the time, since the damage is obv very similar to dugtrio's rock slide which i knew never koes) so i dont rly see how it helps with that matchup, at all tbh. +1 modest mega drain does 50-60% to neutral spdef m-blastoise, so if m-blastoise is under 50% venomoth can just come in, boost once, and then ko it, and the mega drain recovery will likely bring it out of range of any priority other than zippy zap (if the rock slide damage roll is low and depending on m-blastoises hp ie how much mega drain recovers, it might even stay out of zippy zap range). if veno is not running mega drain the sludge bomb damage is only slightly lower, but obv doesnt provide recovery so it will be within range of basically any priority. +1 venomoth does take a little more from rock slide than hydro, but rly the difference doesnt amount to much. aqua jet or dtail is needed for m-blastoise to not be veno setup bait. (veno doesnt get many setup opportunities, so yes a pokemon that can neither paralyze it or prevent it from safely boosting qualifies as setup bait.)
rock slide does mean that an high healthy m-blastoise can check a weakened +1 venomoth, but there are a lot of conditions for that to actually hold (m-blastoise has to be out of +1 mega drain range, and venomoth has to still be in rock slide range after the mega drain recovery so veno initially needs to be under 35-40% ish depending on rolls. and if veno is at +2, u arent checking it.) since aqua jet already can revenge kill a venomoth under ~25%, this isnt rly that useful. (screens on either side can obv change these calcs but for example if m-blastoise's side has gotten light screen up it is extremely unlikely that venomoth is only at +1.)
rock slide seems mostly outclassed, its true ice beam only guaranteed ohkos 75% m-pinsir with a boosting nature so rock slide lets u run +speed without worrying about that, but if u have aqua jet that doesnt matter anyway. i am very skeptical abt cuno's relevance in the tier (and havent seen anyone use it) so idt that is worth running rs just for cuno, when aqua jet is so much more widely useful. aqua jet + hydro is ok-ish against venomoth and obv priority is very useful here in many different situations so that seems basically just better than rock slide to me. also as soon as u see rock slide it is very likely m-blastoise is -spdef which means u need to be at even higher health to check +1 venomoth (and it also needs to be more weakened if mega drain).

no arguments about earthquake for tentacruel as well as being a very hard move to switch into.
either way dropping dark pulse is what opens the key moveslot up.
btw, m-slowbro can run amnesia instead of calm mind on rest sets. the spa boost isnt ~needed~ and being able to boost faster makes a big difference in terms of protection from the electrics, tho it obv doesnt help with leech seed. but i dont disagree that it (needs support lol).

i tentatively agree with kadabra rising (but i havent built or seen more than one or two replays with it). and definitely at substitute is the best fourth move.

at egg-a light screen is not exactly reliable bc u are giving venomoth a second boost (or an extra attacking turn) so u need a physical attacker that both beats it and is bulky/healthy enough to take its moves; and if it turns out to be sleep powder and sleep powder hits u will be in even more trouble and might instalose. but point taken at rly nothing is truly reliable for venomoth anyway. @ dugtrio, exeggutor-k can just run reflect (arguably its best fourth move anyway) and then does just as well vs dug (obv sucker punch will fail if used on the reflect turn).
i think the *offensive* threat of leech seed + (screen or teleport) is underestimated, particularly when paired with venomoth but to some extent for other setup sweepers. eg, say jolteon uses shadow ball as egg-k uses leech seed. even if egg-k is in shadow ball ko range, jolteon may not actually be able to use shadow ball as if a timid venomoth comes in under leech seed it is never ko'ed by thunderbolt followed by thunderbolt at +2 factoring leech seed recovery (except for crits and paralysis chance), so u either switch out and have to face a +1 venomoth that is still at 75%, or u stay in and will then be dealing with a venomoth that gets to at least +2 even if it doesnt have roost. (good luck lol). even if venomoth is modest u are relying on the speed tie, on top of which it has the option to roost rather than use qd which (if jolteon did stay in and click tbolt) can potentially bring venomoth out of needing to win a subsequent speed tie at all as depending on the damage roll(s) thunderbolt followed by thunderbolt at +1 may no longer be a ko through leech seed.
if jolteon finds itself in such a situation, it then likely has to switch out instead, while egg-k can use leech seed again or an attack knowing that jolteon cannot safely ko it.
and jolteon is the key matchup where egg-k is usually the worse egg form, but this shows why even that is not universally accurate.
venomoth is the biggest offensive threat in the meta but can often struggle to set up; imo exeggutor-k provides the best venomoth support available in the metagame with leech seed + teleport or screen.

i accept ur position tho @ egg-a. my preference for exeggutor-k is in part (again) due to its much better m-slowbro matchup (leech seed and resistance to psychic, which is perfectly usable stab even on monoattacking sets since persian-a isnt that common and is the only relevant dark type, and psychic has mostly better neutral coverage otherwise), as well as raichu-a (even with encore leech seed + dual stab resistance is a problem), as well as egg-k doing far better both against venomoth and as support for venomoth. for me the gap between jolteon and the other two fast electrics isnt as large so obv that impacts the ranking of the egg forms. and it seems like u are kind of writing under the assumption venomoth will be banned (which is obv not standard tiering policy, but since these rankings are a bit dormant its understandable to not follow that).
@ moveset, idt exeggutor-a should frequently if ever be running flamethrower. earthquake already covers magneton, as well as other important targets like electrics (esp raichu-a) and tentacruel. if any move should be fixed in the third slot it is earthquake. flamethrower doesnt prevent venomoth from boosting, tho it is enough to weaken veno and prevent it from boosting more than once so i guess if if exeggutor-a is paired with either pika-s or one of the aqua jet users flamethrower it could be sufficient for dealing with it. otherwise flamethrower basically just for exeggutor-k as dragon tail is better against veno and anything else weak to fire, and flamethrower also potentially allows pokemon such as m-blastoise, zard x to come in basically for free which is (very undesirable) and fire is generally not rly a good offensive type in the tier.
[also @ veno, you brought up light screen, having both light screen and flamethrower wont rly do any good there as if you use light screen first venomoth will get to boost to +2 before taking an attack and flamethrower will then be useless against roost variants, whereas if you use flamethrower first you will be koed at +1 before getting to set light screen. i guess you could try setting light screen and then clicking flamethrower to scout for whether it is roost vs sleep powder, but if it is roost you will have wasted critical screen turns (u will have to click flamethrower twice to scout for roost), also if u get low-ish rolls venomoth will have the option to safely boost a third time rather than roost after the second flamethrower), it is very unlikely for that approach to work. u really need dragon tail (or stun spore) to not be setup bait for venomoth with any consistency.

(btw i think golbat runs whirlwind for venomoth, since it actually has other uses and prevents opponent from just switching in whatever into golbat (once haze is used vs venomoth and therefore shows golbat isnt running whirlwind.))
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‘along the lines of’ my golbat and arbok rise nominations, id like to suggest

weezing ~ C or C- (currently unranked)

this is another option as a check to any viable venomoth variant (since psychic is a bad move for veno to run due to all of its targets being low rank mons, it having otherwise bad coverage with sludge bomb, and the moveslot is too important).
weezing is somewhat similar to muk, and brings some useful features and better phys bulk at the cost of frailty on the special side.
~ its better speed means it doesnt need +speed to outrun exeggutor-k, and its matchup vs exeggutor-a is also better due to taking less from earthquake. it also means it is faster than neutral speed omastar.
~ it is imo more threatening than muk offensively despite lower attacking stats, as it has explosion over self destruct, and its other moves also have higher bp (sludge bomb over poison jab, tbolt and fire blast instead of punches) and those moves hitting on the special side is also mostly preferable, esp thunderbolt for omastar.
~ wisp isnt rly great in this meta but does allow weezing to be a pretty solid check to dodrio, which is desirable for eg teams that run magneton. also cripples dugtrio/golem (/grounds) which weezing doesnt have coverage for (and dugtrio never kos with eq, which obv is an advantage of weezing over arbok or muk).
mainly the set should be sludge bomb, tbolt, wisp, explosion. prob with a bold or calm nature. explosion is needed to check venomoth but thats fine as venomoth doesnt have room to run substitute and only can ever set up once anyway. calm lets u survive hydro/fblast from the top two megas.
fire blast as an 'other option' to hit magneton which otherwise switches in easily, but would have to replace wisp which leaves u with nothing for golem and to a lesser extent dugtrio, or possibly replace thunderbolt which leaves u as setup bait for omastar (wisp is adequate for kabutops) and to some extent moltres

(i also still think m-blastoise can move to S- and the fact that mega drain venomoth can set up in front of a blastoise around 50% health (rock slide never ohkos after rocks, if it has hydro + aqua jet it has decent-ish odds to ko +1 veno depending on nature but it is potentially worth the risk for the veno user anyway) is a real issue)
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Dual Screen Offense
(Click on Text for pokepaste)
Not sure if Dodrio is a good pick but I think this is a decent offensive team
And could be put to some use

And here is the special set for Exegutor-alola if you want to change:

Level: 50
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mega Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
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I built a lot of teams for the UU Cup, while I didn't have much success with them cuz I lost r1 vs soulwind, Kenix got to semis using some of my teams and they had pretty convincing wins throughout the tour. I'm not the most experienced lgpe uu player so I built these teams based almost completely on theorycrafting, take these teams with a grain of salt and feel free to make any suggestions on any of them.


:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Clefable: :XY/Vaporeon:

Really standard balance team I've built which just seems all-around great, you got your Zard/Toise check and also a hard mon to switch into generally in Vaporeon, your most consistent rocker in the tier (imo) also being capable of checking things like Alolan Egg and a nice para spreader, paralyzing Tentacruel could be huge for Zard and Egg later in a match. You also got your obligatory Jolteon (I don't really know if it is obligatory but any team lacking it looks so ankward), your ol' reliable Duggy as it enhances your Zard matchup a ton and its just an amazing mon in general thanks to its sky-high Speed and decent damage output, Exeggutor is next in the club, packing a great movepool while being able to put things to Sleep or Leech Seed switch-ins as recovery is a rare feature in this tier and any type of recovery (except Rest on most cases as it leaves the pokemon too vulnerable and gives momentum up completely), it (or its Alolan counterpart) is mandatory on any non-Hyper Offense team as it is by far the best Dugtrio check in the tier. Last but not the least we got the broken mon itself, Zard is oppressive and gives the team a great mix of a really difficult mon to switch into, great defensive assets with great typing and the best Jolteon check in the tier.

I'd say this team is really customizable, Zard can opt for Will-O-Wisp or Brick Break in the 3rd slot, WoW main selling point is being able to mega evolve on Golem's face, so you don't need to take the 50% Stealth Rock damage prior to mega evolving later in a match while it instantly starts to pose a big threat on the opposing team, I believe Brick Break is also fine as most Jolteons just prefer to click a screen while Zard is switching in so you can just Brick Break every time it goes for a screen, this being said you won't have all the opportunities to launch strong STAB hits but at least you take away the possibility to an opposing Pokemon being able to sweep. Exeggutor can run either Sleep Powder or Leech Seed, both are very useful options, sleeping a mon is always great as it is always really difficult to get rid of the sleep on such an offensive tier, Leech Seed is also good on longer games forcing multiple switches and stacking up damage with rocks up and potentially offering some recovery to its teammates, if you choose to run Leech Seed you can run Yawn on Vaporeon more comfortably. I think Exeggutor is better alongside Zard than Exeggutor-A as it pressures Zard checks like Vaporeon, Tentacruel and Blastoise better and being able to outspeed Golem is also nice. It being a worse Jolteon check than Egg-A doesn't affect it to much as Zard covers it up perfectly.

:XY/Pidgeot-Mega: :XY/Primeape: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Golem: :XY/Tentacruel: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola:

I've seen similar concepts in OU with M-Beedrill + Primeape so I thought I could experiment with M-Pidgeot and I'm satisfied with the final product. It is pretty straightforward, Pidgeot clicks U-turn vs any rock-type and brings any of Primeape, Tentacruel and Egg, Primeape is the second part of the U-turn core as it can scare out these rock-types and can chip down some pokemon while maintaining momentum with U-turn. I think I already covered what other pokemon do in the above team so I'm not gonna be repetitive here. Brick Break is also an option on Egg-A as it has almost the same interaction with Jolteon as Zard, the difference being the lack of reliable recovery, Brick Break probably has a big merit here as this is a more offensive team which can appreciate not having its damage output halved.

:XY/Blastoise-Mega: :XY/Clefable: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola: :XY/Vaporeon:

This one is heat tbh, I tried the ultimate Clef wincon set out and of course, it is really hard to pull the sweep off as it is really prominent to getting crit'd as it needs a good amount of turns to pose a threat, one crit basically ends it all. Clef really needs screens up to start boosting up so there's the obligatory Jolteon offering dual screens and additional screens on Egg-A and Vaporeon, Clef really appreciates rocks up and chip damage in general so Blastoise forcing a ton of switch-ins and chipping them can be key for a potential Clef sweep in the lategame. Clef can also go for the PP stalling route sometimes if that is safe enough as 32 CM + 64 Defense Curl + 24 Moonblast + Rest turns gives it more than enough PP to stall any mon out. The rest of the team forms the needed defensive backbone and speed control options.

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Victreebel: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Kingler: :XY/Dodrio:

This is an HO attempt by me featuring Victreebel and Kingler, both honestly seem to complement each other well on HO both weakening checks for each other such as the Exeggutors, Zard and Blastoise. Victreebel and Kingler are great breakers to enable Dodrio in lategame, Zard also helps in the breaking department weakening foes with its nigh unswitchable dual STAB, also it has the luxury of weakening its few switch-ins on Tentacruel, Vaporeon and Blastoise with Dragon Tail, which also helps Kingler a lot since Kingler struggles against any Water-type. And of course screens are mandatory on HO so might as well put the best screens setter.

From here on I'm just gonna throw some of my other teams here:

:XY/Pinsir-Mega: :XY/Golem-Alola: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Slowbro: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola: :XY/Tauros:

:XY/Pidgeot-Mega: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Pikachu-Starter: :XY/Golem: :XY/Tentacruel:

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Omastar: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Vaporeon:

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Hitmonlee: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Tentacruel:

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Ninetales-Alola: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Vaporeon:

:XY/Blastoise-Mega: :XY/Moltres: :XY/Electrode: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola: :XY/Golem: :XY/Vaporeon:

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Blastoise: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Tauros:

:XY/Blastoise-Mega: :XY/Tauros: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Golem: :XY/Exeggutor-Alola: :XY/Tentacruel:

:XY/Blastoise-Mega: :XY/Kadabra: :XY/Electrode: :XY/Dugtrio: :XY/Exeggutor: :XY/Clefable:

:XY/Charizard-Mega-X: :XY/Tangela: :XY/Jolteon: :XY/Golem: :XY/Vaporeon: :XY/Dodrio:

Hope these are actually useful in the future
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i want to make a post specifically about stealth rock in uu, both about setters and playing with/against rocks setters in game.


as lpz said this is by far the most reliable and effective rocks setter in the tier, personally i put it on >95% of teams. for a number of reasons, its the bulkiest, has the rarest weaknesses and is not ohkoed by anything, it has twave which allows it to then outspeed anything not immune to set rocks, so even if u are outsped and 2hkoed by opposing mon u still accomplish something besides getting rocks up; but maybe most importantly it is the only solo rocker that can lead against zard x with any consistency. im going to go into detail abt this bc it is not st i have seen others take advantage of or play in reln to.

~ dugtrio’s eq does eighty percent maximum to zard x other than on a crit, while it is ohkoed back by (neutral natured) fire blast 68% of the time. if dug is ur only rocker and faces zard lead, u can either eq and then most likely have to play without stealth rock (or ig u can go for the rs flinch), which even with zard at 20% is never going to be advantageous, or u set rocks and sac dug which on some teams (aka taurosless teams) is the only zard revenge killer.
the only way this lead matchup isnt horrible is if either u have two rocks setters, or at least two potential setters to force opp to guess whether dug is the sole rocks setter or not.
~ adamant golem has a 12% chance to ohko zard x with eq (not accounting for prediction of m-evolving), while golem is always 2hkoed by dpulse regardless of nature. if u set rocks, ur effectively sacing golem. if u eq and dont ko, u either give up rocks or now have to switch into dpulse and will still have a lot of difficulty setting rocks later as golem is so slow and is left at a range where most things can ko it.
~ other rocks setters pinsir, omastar/kabutops (which rly need their moveslots anyway), marowak have the same or worse zard mus so idt elaborating is needed. (if lead rocks oma uses shell smash, it doesnt have rock slide so opp can switch in their vap/tenta/lap which isnt ohkoed even at +4, but ig this is slightly better than golem vs zard lead mu)
while clefable is an excellent lead vs zard, zard has to switch out without mevolving to avoid being crippled by twave, and then next turn u set rocks. therefore leading clef guarantees zard is at 50% (and in its poor base typing) when it first comes in. only exception is substitute zard, which has never seen use but even then its not ~terrible as clef will get rocks up, learn all but one of zards moves, and possibly break the sub depending on zard’s set.

being able to freely lead zard is generally advantageous, as starting at full health is huge while it rly doesnt need rocks to be up on the opposing side to get kos. if you are not using clefable, you need to have a plan for opposing zard lead. maybe that is running two rocks setters or disguising ur rocks setter, maybe its st like triple water / a team that is very secure vs zard x anyway, maybe its sometimes leading ur own mega as eg mblastoise does enough to zard x with hpump that it is no longer a favorable lead for the zard x user.


this mon saw a lot of usage as a rocks setter in the cup, and as anyone on the discord knows i rate this mon’s general viability much lower than anyone else, but regardless there was a lot of overly conservative play against dugtrios that were known to be the rocks setter and the issues with dug rocks are important to consider both using and facing dug.
dug is ohkoed by most of the tier other than electrics, including neutral attacks tauros’s double edge and the zard fblast roll noted above. if dugtrio comes in to eg revenge kill tauros, it rly needs to be considered if giving the 50/50 free turn to set rocks is worth it. if u stay in and it does ko you, u still get to then bring in (whatever check) and dug has to either sac itself, or switch out and delay getting rocks as well as find a switchin to that check which often is a hard mon to switch into. in particular alolan exeggutor can 2hko dug with any neutral attack followed by dragon tail, so it does not even need to click mega drain to create a huge cost to dug staying in to set rocks.
in many cases it is better to j stay in, ensure dug doesnt get to set rocks without sacing itself and otherwise take advantage next turn of it having not set rocks yet.
(ofc this depends somewhat, and vs some teams getting rocks up is m more important than others)

in some ways this is similar to dug, bc golem is 2hkoed by a lot so if u attack instead of switch u can also often make it effectively sac itself for rocks. tho golem isnt 2hkoed by jolteon which is obv significant. this was used much less anyway so there is less of a basis to comment.

others: kabutops really needs swords dance to be effective in uu, it can run rocks on it for unpredictability eg paired with dugtrio but otherwise its not worth the moveslot and st else should be used as a rocker. marowak is a bit sturdier than golem but honestly 2hkoed by a lot of the tier as well, other than compressing jolteon check + rocks clef tends to j be better. pinsir is a decent rocks setter but again clef is mostly better. omastar wants rock slide for vap/tenta/lap but isnt rly a good rocks setter anyway outside of creating 50/50s with the threat of boosting.

also, some teams are much more affected by rocks and it is more urgent to get them up. against pidgeot and zard getting rocks up quickly is usually very important, against the water megas less so. some other mons especially ofc (the rare) moltres, and also lapras can be quite dangerous if u delay getting rocks. if u arent using clefable which is the only rocks setter that is a good lead, keep these matchups/threats in mind, if u take too long to get rocks up ‘even’ lapras can get 3-4 kos and the others can be even more dangerous, on the flip side when u are using these mons know the pressure opponent is under to get rocks up and dont give their rocks setter(s) free turns.


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LGPE is switching to Viability-based Tiering!

Hi! With the conclusion of the second LGPE UU Cup, we've decided that it's time to address the issue of LGPE OU's list of Pokemon being terrible. Like, why is Arcanine OU? Why is Mega Blastoise UU? Why is regular Beedrill stuck with its Mega Evolution??? The answer is that our ladder was horribly inactive, which really brought out the worst in usage-based tiering and never gave us a real chance to have accurate tiers. As such, we're happy to announce that we're moving to viability-based tiering from here on out! Everything ranked above B- in the OU Viability Ranking will now form the modern OU list, and anything ranked B- or below will form modern UU. The same rule will be used in LGPE UU and future lower tiers.

Without any further ado, let's see the changes!

Rises from UU to OU
:blastoise-mega: Blastoise-Mega
:charizard-mega-x: Charizard-Mega-X
:exeggutor-alola: Exeggutor-Alola
:persian-alola: Persian-Alola

Drops from OU to UUBL
:alakazam: Alakazam

Drops from OU to UU
:Arcanine: Arcanine
:Beedrill: Beedrill
:Eevee-Starter: Eevee-Starter
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Kangaskhan: Kangaskhan
:Kangaskhan-Mega: Kangaskhan-Mega
:Rapidash: Rapidash
:Sandslash: Sandslash
:Sandslash-Alola: Sandslash-Alola
:Venusaur: Venusaur

These changes are absolutely massive, and basically produce an entirely new and unrecognisable tier! Not only does the tier lose three of its best and most meta-warping Pokemon in Mega Blastoise, Mega Charizard X, and Alolan Exeggutor, it also gains several new great Pokemon, with only Beedrill and possibly Arcanine looking to be lackluster. Alakazam has also been immediately banned due to the tier's almost total lack of defensive counterplay to such a fast Pokemon. I'd love to hear your thoughts about the winners and losers in this shift!

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