Gen 7 Let's Go UnderUsed

Eve

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lguufinal.png

(overdesigned logo by me)
LGPE UU is the home of Pokémon that don't have what it takes to be consistent performers in OU. Here you'll find the likes of Moltres, Articuno, Tentacruel and even some Mega Evolutions. The tier is based off LGPE OU's usage stats across October 2019, with anything above 3.406% usage prohibited. This thread will be the hub for all resources and tiering discussions, including Viability Rankings, suspect tests, quickbans and general conversation about the format as it develops.

Note: Due to LGPE's Mega Evolution mechanics, Pokemon had their usage combined with that of their Mega Evolution(s) to determine their tiering. As a result, Pokemon such as regular Gyarados and Kangaskhan are OU.

RULES
Mechanics:
Pokemon are set to Level 50. Pokemon do not have EVs, Abilities, or Items. IVs and Nature still apply.
Clauses: Smogon-Wide Clauses.
Allowed Pokemon: Pokemon 1-151 and Meltan, minus the prohibited Pokemon listed below, are allowed for use in LGPE UU.

PROHIBITED POKEMON
OU: Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Arcanine, Beedrill, Chansey, Cloyster, Dragonite, Dugtrio-Alola, Eevee-Starter, Gengar, Gyarados, Kangaskhan, Melmetal, Mew, Muk-Alola, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Poliwrath, Rapidash, Rhydon, Sandslash, Sandslash-Alola, Snorlax, Starmie, Venusaur, Zapdos
UUBL: None (yet)

RESOURCES
Viability Rankings
Type Compendium
Sample Teams
Speed Tiers
Discord

LGPE UU will probably never have a challenge format on the main showdown server- you can play by challenging someone to an OU battle with UU teams, or using the format on my psim, Nexus!
 
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Eve

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is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Viability Rankings (V1)
Pokemon are ranked based on how well they perform in the metagame. This is usually measured by how well the Pokemon perform in the following criteria:
Threat Level, Splashability, Reliability, Metagame Impact, Speed, Bulk, Uniqueness, Stealth Rock Vulnerability, Matchup Spread.

S Rank:

Pokemon in this rank fill all of the main criteria and then some, with a strong proficiency in several. If a Pokemon in this rank has any downsides, they are usually tame or eclipsed by their obvious assets.


A Rank:
Pokemon in this rank may fill the majority or all of the criteria. These Pokemon may have one major or some minor negative characteristics that could set them back.

A+
A
A-

B Rank:
Pokemon in this rank do an alright job fulfilling criteria, albeit not as convincingly. These Pokemon will have some issues you should be accounting for while building your team.

B+
B
B-

C-Rank:
Pokemon in this rank do a mediocre job at filling criteria. The sizable amount of negative characteristics associated with these Pokemon are something to weigh against their positives before you fit one on a team.

C+
:muk: Muk
C
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Lapras​
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Pinsir​
:raticate: Raticate​
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Vileplume​
C-
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Charizard​
:fearow: Fearow​
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Golbat​
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Hypno​
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Magmar​
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Persian​
:raticate-alola: Alolan Raticate​
Last Updated: 18th September 2020
18th September 2020: Moved Mega Charizard X from A+ to S
17th July 2020: Initial VR created by Eve

Other Resources
Damage Calc (provided by @Lego)
 
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
That prohibited mons list seems kinda off. It doesn't mention certain mons like Arcanine and normal Sandslash while incorrectly saying stuff like Charizard is banned by usage. That said...


Gyarados seems like a pretty all-around solid tank. It can check the Mega Charizards while Dragon Tailing out checks and dishing the damage with Earthquake and Waterfall. ou by usage nvm

Screenshot 2020-02-27 at 7.44.05 PM.png

On the subject of Water tanks, Tentacruel also seems pretty neat. Takes on the Megazards even better, although unlike Gyarados it has to beware Earthquake. It also has sustain in Mega Drain as well as high-power Scalds and Sludge Bomb.

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Surprisingly anti-meta rocker? It seems like there's gonna be a good amount of Water types, and while Golem-Alola can't switch in, Water can't switch in on it either due to its Electric STAB.

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I remember running Bulk Up Mega Pinsir allll the way back in the good old days of pre-release Candy OU, and it put in work there. Maybe it can find a home in UU?


Without Magic Guard OU has been a bit too strong for it, but perhaps it can be a good Fairy down here
 
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Eve

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LGPE now has a working teambuilder once again thanks to Kris! As a result, building for the tier will be much easier. An interesting side effect of using our old combined usage for megas and base formes is that Gengar has been put in OU. We can't determine whether it would have dropped without its Mega, and would almost certainly have banned it regardless. We're sticking with this tiering, meaning Gengar is no longer allowed in LGPE UU.

That's not all I want to share though- while I'm here, I feel like giving an overview of my favourite team from the little testing we've had. I feel like it does a good job of showing that LGPE is very accomodating to a variety of playstyles!

:ss/tentacruel::ss/electrode::ss/pinsir-mega::ss/pikachu-starter::ss/marowak::ss/persian-alola: (click for pokepaste)
This is a very basic dual screens offense. LGPE's lack of Light Clay makes it a much smarter choice to have a balanced backbone on this teamstyle in order to better respond to the opponent's offense, rather than going all in on offense and relying on screens to tank hits. In this team's case, Tentacruel and Marowak make for a solid 2 Pokemon core that can respond to many threats in a pinch. Electrode also acts as a catch-all, being fast enough to outspeed even a +1 Venomoth and prevent further setup, and Pikachu can pick things off with Zippy Zap. For offense, the team is definitely not lacking in fast firepower- Mega Pinsir is absolutely nuclear and can decimate bulkier teams or those that have their fast Pokemon picked off. Alolan Persian has perfect coverage in two moves and a stellar Speed tier, making it a great pivot and greatly improving the team's matchup against opposing offense which can't deal with its decidedly lacking Special Attack after a boost. This team is probably far from optimal, but it's definitely fun! Be wary that due to Screens' shorter duration, it may be optimal to only set up one at a time to maximise the number of turns you get.
Things to experiment with: Explosion/Teleport on Electrode, Swords Dance on Marowak, Hypnosis on Alolan Persian, Reflect on Tentacruel

Also, here's some general thoughts on which Pokemon stand out at this stage-
:tentacruel: This is the best Pokemon in the tier. Amazing special bulk, solid Speed, Toxic immune and a reliable spreader, and very difficult to switch into with its coverage and Scald in general- Tentacruel has it all.

:dugtrio: Dugtrio is strong and really fast (most of the faster mons are Electric-types), has STAB Earthquake (best move in this tier), and also has Rock Slide and Sucker Punch to cover Flying-types and pick off anything that may end up outspeeding it. Substitute sets are really good at exploiting the switches it can force. Dugtrio is probably offense's best tool for destroying opposing offense. Frailty and difficulty breaking through bulky Waters/Marowak/Exeggutors in the short term hold it back, but definitely still one of the best.

:blastoise-mega::slowbro-mega: Grouping together because they do roughly the same thing- be a bulky Water tank that throws off strong hits in return. Blastoise offers better special bulk, a real Speed tier, a significantly higher STAB damage output thanks to Hydro Pump (Slowbro only gets Surf), and can run Aqua Jet and physical options like Earthquake. Slowbro offers ridiculous physical bulk, insane coverage, Thunder Wave, a secondary STAB, and setup options that can potentially let you cheese a win. Pick whichever fits your team best.

:charizard-mega-x::charizard-mega-y: These things are somewhere from amazing to broken, not sure yet. Zard-X is obviously more consistent thanks to its reduced Stealth Rock weakness, but Zard-Y's immense power can be really hard to pass up. Might try my hand once again at finally coding correct Mega Evolution mechanics because I'd love to see how Zard would utilize the ability to choose the better Mega for the scenario, and how it might affect sets and viability.

:omastar: Omastar is terrifying in certain scenarios. If you don't have Jolteon, Starter Pikachu, or Electrode on your team, you don't have a Pokemon that can outspeed or Zippy Zap it after a Shell Smash and might just lose (especially if you don't have a bulky water or it was forced to take damage). If you have one of those Electric-types, you're probably okay. Matchup Fossil for sure

:pikachu-starter: Speaking of the rodent, it's actually good here! The power level is much more accomodating, and the lower amount of mons that stonewall it means it can function effectively as a revenge killer that can whittle things down throughout the game with its great coverage. Zippy Zap is, of course, invaluable priority in a format lacking conventional means of speed control.

That's all for now! Full resources and an early VR coming soon :blobthumbsup:
 

Eve

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is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I had a lot of time to kill tonight, so what better to do than continue to push this quaint tier? I've put together a Viability Rankings for the tier, complete with sample sets for everything down to B-! It's post #2 on this thread.
As this was made by me alone in a single night, it's bound to have inaccuracies- feel free to join the LGPE Discord and play some battles with us to help fine-tune it. ;)

One thing I want to mention, seeing as I called Tentacruel the top mon previously-
:blastoise-mega:
So what happened to make this turtle the face of the meta? To put it simply, I ran some calcs. Mega Blastoise is extremely tough to KO and even tougher to wall, making for a formidable tank that also has a really solid Speed tier. It feels a lot like Melmetal does in LGPE OU- a Tank that takes the role to another level, and it's proven itself to deserve the #1 spot through plenty of testing. I don't think it's unhealthy though, at least not yet!
 
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~ ik this is all very preliminary but thinking that venomoth should be S. its 'default' sludge bomb/ mega drain/ qd / roost (modest) is extremely hard to deal with at +1, the only pokemon that it doesnt outspeed are electrode which can only twave (not exactly a reliable way to deal with it since it can keep boosting) or explode (and explosion doesnt ko after rocks) and outspeeding +1 venomoth is literally its niche in the tier, pika-s does 37-49% with zippy zap depending on nature, and timid jolteon which speed ties and does less than 40% with tbolt. as for other offensive pokemon, for example zard x are almost ohko'ed at +1 after rocks, and m-blastoise cannot accomplish anything outside of dragon tail (and if m-blastoise also lacks aqua jet healthy venomoth can even set up in front of it); and the primary pokemon that resist its attack(s) like tentacruel, haunter to whatever extent that is relevant, cant damage it sufficiently so they just become set up bait instead, magneton can twave but that only rly helps due to the full paralysis chance. in general, outside of marowak-a either an opposing pokemon needs to be rly healthy or venomoth needs to be very weakened to check it at +1, and ofc some pokemon such as dugtrio just lose to it at +1 regardless.
venomoth's main issue is setting up, but it will almost always have an opportunity to set up at some point even without sleep powder.
and sleep powder can screw up an opposing healthy pokemon that expects to check the above set (obv that is luck dependent) in addition to making set up easier. sleep powder usually should replace roost, or it can be run mono attacking bug buzz but that loses important neutral coverage esp on mega zard and moltres.
(idt psychic should ever rly be run, poison types are rare itd mainly be for tentacruel and opposing venomoth, but tentacruel cant beat venomoth anyway and sleep powder is enough for the mirror matchup while still having use outside of that. idt there is any reason to run bug buzz except on mono attacking sets, +1 venomoth's matchup against opposing psychics is pretty good anyway, eg kadabra is ohko'ed by sludge bomb after rocks, and a healthy venomoth can boost a second time against m-slowbro and +2 mega drain will usually ko after rocks and recover almost as much health as it took from psychic at +2 (m-slowbro without psychic j loses), or alternatively +1 mega drain does 60-71%. modest should be the primary nature, all timid rly does is outspeed jolteon at +1 instead of speed tie, and outspeed a few pokemon unboosted but none of those are rly pokemon it can set up on anyway.)
i see venomoth's 'power level' as comparable to the prominent megas, but ofc it does not take the mega slot. i think it may often be hard to justify not using it on a team, bc usually the worst case scenario is that u set up and heavily damage something before being ko'ed, and it is so threatening if not considered in teambuilding to the point of eg singlehandedly making electrode viable.

~ base form pinsir is far too low (eg relative to other base forms). pinsir can be very hard to deal with because the pokemon that can revenge kill mega-pinsir often struggle with its base form. for example, jolteon does 53-69% depending on nature with tbolt and is ohkoed back by eq, and dugtrio does 41-50% with rock slide and is usually ohko'ed back by x-scissor. while eg most fire types that beat base form pinsir, are outsped by the mega form and are always ohko'ed, except zard x which is usually ohko'ed by eq after rocks. pinsir should almost always be used with a second mega bc in many cases it may not want to mega evolve at all. with no mew the increased speed tier isnt as important and even in base form it outspeeds quite a bit and with fire type attacks not having very good coverage in this tier, resisted by all the waters and having relatively little super effective coverage, its base defensive typing is solid outside of the rocks weakness.
i feel like pinsir as a whole is maybe not valued enough, bc outside of a few rarer checks, unless a team has both zard/moltres and a fast electric or dugtrio, whichever form it lacks an obvious check to can become a big threat.
i agree bulk up and sd are both viable, bulk up can help protect esp base form pinsir from eg dugtrio, pika-s's floaty fall, and maybe dodrio.

~ a few smol things:
- moltres should have agility here. wisp is of very limited usefulness with kabutops being the only physical water and u turn is rly hard for it to use as always. agility means it beats dugtrio instead of losing to it, allows it to usually beat zard x lacking outrage or dragon tail, and helps somewhat with electrics etc. moltres's offensive typing isnt great in this meta and it is complete bait for omastar (has to switch out directly to prevent multiple boosts and game over), but if u are going to use it it should have agility. and i dont think zard y is viable in this meta at all, the 100 base speed doesnt even matter that much here and other than having, like, dragon pulse for at least some decent damage on omastar to prevent it from boosting twice, it has no benefit over moltres and loses agility on top of taking the mega slot. (if the mechanic of choosing mega evolution in battle were implemented, this could change as it could run air slash and dpulse and choose which mega evolution to use based on matchup.)
- bulk up hitmonlee seems a bit low, its speed is a bit lacking in this tier but its bulk is decent on both sides at +1 and absurd power matched only by m-pinsir. other than m-slowbro it doesnt have any true counters, but there are the fast air slash/drill peck users here that can revenge kill it, along with the prob less common fast psychic types
- idk if electabuzz can go somewhere? neutral natured ice punch almost ohko's dugtrio after rocks which may give it a niche over other electrics. low kick can be used for magneton and both golem forms, reflect could help so u dont have to overpredict dugtrio switching in, twave. could even run thunder punch for an all physical set with adamant nature which can sometimes ohko dugtrio as well as better damage against eg tentacruel but much worse vs omastar and m-slowbro, or thunder for para chance since grounds other than marowak may hesitate to switch in. maybe hard to justify over pika-s but ice punch does more to dugtrio than splishy splash and electabuzz does better against opposing electrics since its special bulk is decent. def feels more viable than eg magmar which im not sure what that is doing ranked with an sr weakness and bad offensive typing for this tier.
 

Eve

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Great post!
~ Venomoth stuff
Yeah, this is something I've been considering. Venomoth is extremely powerful and easily the scariest setup wincon in the tier for exactly the reasons you listed. Nobody I've battled has used it though, so it's mostly theory, while the 2 current S tiers have been used several times and are proven to be massively powerful (if not somewhat broken in Zard's case). Definitely gonna make that set the main one btw, probably with Bug Buzz slashed after Mega Drain for better neutral damage against stuff like Magneton and Bro in a pinch (not getting Para'd can be big).

~ Pinsir stuff
Pinsir's main issue is that while there aren't a huge number of mons faster than it, those which are are very popular and typically several are found on any given UU team (I find it very hard to build UU teams without at least 2 of Jolteon, Dugtrio, Alolan Persian, Electrode, Starter Pika, Dodrio etc, all of which can typically RK it after it takes damage setting up). Between Stealth Rock usually being up and/or Pinsir simply hardly ever getting a great switchin opportunity that also enables safe setup, it's not too hard to prevent it from making too much progress- when it does get the right opportunity, however, it's a menace, hence Mega Pinsir's solid A- rating. Regular Pinsir probably warrants a rise, I agree, but I don't want to rank Mega Pinsir much higher for now. The Mega Evolutions ranked above it are generally better and more consistent, even at breaking, and out of those only Slowbro is really okay with giving up its Mega Evolution on dual mega teams as base Zard and Blastoise are pretty bad. Pinsir also typically mandates screens support to reach its full potential, and while screens are common and good in UU that's another teambuilding factor to consider compared to other Megas.

~ a few smol things:
- moltres
Agreed, Agility definitely looks way better, should have considered that. Honestly looks like a decently potent cleaner lategame in some scenarios as many teams are very offensive and let their waters get worn down in the midgame. Omastar isn't on every team and you usually won't get destroyed as long as you pair Moltres with something that pressures/tanks it and Jolteon as a safety measure if everything goes wrong, just never give it 2 turns of setup which is really the case in any matchup vs Omastar. Zard-Y is also probably worse than I'm giving it credit for as its raw power doesn't actually achieve much more than ZardX's in this tier and it's otherwise mostly worse, so I can see a drop making sense.

- bulk up hitmonlee
Agreed- this mon's damage is ridiculous, can't really say much more about it. It's not very complex.

- electabuzz
Electabuzz is a very interesting case. If you want a standalone elec you're often better off running any of Jolteon, Starter Pikachu, and Alolan Raichu, as their Speed tiers let them reliably outrun Pinsir and actually contribute to handling Dodrio (shakily in Raichu-A's case due to tying). Jolteon's Shadow Ball cleanly 2HKOs Dugtrio so it can threaten switchins similarly to Electabuzz (which actually requires more prior damage), and Jolteon can actually beat a weakened Dugtrio 1v1 which no amount of coverage could let Electabuzz do. Maybe running Electabuzz alongside Jolteon could be viable though, as both can help bust through checks for each other and Electabuzz actually threatens Alolan Exeggutor while Jolteon can provide screens for safer entry. Such a core would probably have very real ZardX issues as you'd also want a Grass alongside them to pivot in on Dugtrio/Golem/Marowak in unfavourable scenarios, but slotting TWave or Toxic somewhere on the two would help alleviate that at least and so would a Mega Blastoise.


Gonna go ahead and update a few of these sample sets, will also probably be discussing VR changes in the Discord! We don't have a council right now so any opinions are appreciated, especially from those who have experience with LGPE.
 
~ true at venomoth and i agree with that at slashing bug buzz with mega drain. bug buzz hits all the rocks and grounds in the tier neutrally anyway so it is def an option instead of mega drain, mainly losing the recovery and the ohko on omastar/kabutops/golem at +1. i think they could prob be slashed in either order (but sludge bomb should never be dropped)
~ mostly agree at pinsir. also maybe worth noting that pinsir can drop a boosting move to set stealth rock, it can set rocks safely against most of the tier other than zard x, its obv bulkier than dugtrio so it can take a hit on the turn it sets rocks and has a better speed and more consistent defensive typing than any other rocks setters. it 'obv' should almost never be mega evolving if it is being used to set rocks.
~ electabuzz is a good user of twave anyway since ice punch or low kick nearly 2hko i think every para immune pokemon in the tier except marowak, and zard x cant rly function well at all paralyzed so idk that id be concerned about that specifically. and timid jolteon's shadow ball only has a 3% chance to 2hko dugtrio after rocks, but regardless evthg u said makes sense and i see how electabuzz's viability is a lil questionable. (at the core you suggested, pairing them with moltres might be better than a grass type, low kick will bring golem very close to fire blast ko range to set up a moltres sweep, and marowak might run thunder punch and/or ice beam instead of rock slide and regardless if moltres can switch into earthquake it can prob force marowak out tho modest fire blast doesnt ohko. dealing with dugtrio would be very prediction dependent but dugtrio is usually not a big issue for a moltres team and semi checking it with eg mega slowbro or mega blastoise is fine. while the electrics help moltres with its omastar weakness)

btw the bulky grass types seem rly high? if the reason is to check grounds, idk bc exeggutor-a is 2hko'ed by marowak's ice beam and they both are 3hko'ed by golem's rock slide which is arguably its most spammable move since the main rock resists are rly phys frail (dugtrio and hitmonlee). every water type in the tier other than sometimes m-slowbro always carries ice coverage and exeggutor-a's fire neutrality isnt worth much since its weak to both zard x's and moltres's secondary stabs but at least it checks jolteon. idk is their checking dugtrio and a few other smol niches rly enough to warrant an A rank? esp when exeggutor-a is outsped and ohko'ed by so many key pokemon in the tier
 
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note: ik this is very hard to read now so im going to work on reformatting/organizing it etc later

(actually venomoth is prob fine in a+ bc it often needs screen support and/or some luck (eg avoiding a rock slide flinch from dugtrio) to set up, and pokemon that it might otherwise set up on safely have moves to prevent that, such as dragon tail on exeggutor-a. and i think i agree with keeping m-pinsir and hitmonlee where they are too, tho base pinsir is a very usable sr setter with a good speed tier without dugtrio's frailty, threatening taunt users such as persian-a, and unlike eg omastar/kabutops setting sr doesnt severely interfere with its general functioning, its a bit like clefable but different advantages/disadvantages eg it has a bad zard-x matchup but is not setup bait for m-slowbro (with the bonus of not being distinguishable from its mega at team preview) so i def think it needs to move up.)

i wanted to put a few notes abt other pokemon, not necessarily about rank
~ m-blastoise should prob always have aqua jet or dragon tail, otherwise venomoth can set up basically freely in front of it. otherwise, moveset is very flexible, eg even ice beam is not at all mandatory as dark pulse + dragon pulse hits both exeggutor forms super effectively tho losing the ohko on exeggutor-a while also covering m-slowbro and zard-x which ice beam sets do not have room to do. edit: i think S is too high, yes it has excellent 1v1s but so does zard x and m-blastoise doesnt have recovery, and it only truly forces out a few pokemon and doesnt outspeed a lot either so it can just be attacked with whatever it comes in against to bring it into range of a teammate. if u are giving up zard x it is probably bc u want a sweeper, ie m-slowbro, and/or maybe (m-)pinsir. being able to tolerate twave from m-slowbro, still outspeed it paralyzed if +speed nature, and 2hko with dark pulse while not caring too much about any of its attacks means that it can switch in directly which nothing else in the tier can rly do (maybe exeggutor-k), and that is maybe the best reason to use m-blastoise, but that is yet another moveset limitation if you want it to fill that role.
~ zard x can (prob usually should) be mixed, eg timid sets running fire blast /dpulse rly want earthquake (or possibly thunder punch) for tentacruel, and in some cases other specially bulkier pokemon such as cm raichu-a, cm mr mime, vaporeon. wisp really isnt needed for fire blast/dpulse sets since dpulse 2hko's golem and kabutops, wisp doesnt rly help with kabutops anyway due to swords dance, and it doesnt rly have other important targets. beating tentacruel is far more important and earthquake is strong enough regardless of -attack nature (and even timid thunder punch easily 2hkos tentacruel). running one special and one physical stab is also very viable, since running flare blitz + outrage can have issues when neither recoil nor being locked in is desirable.
~ tentacruel should have mirror coat at least slashed, it really messes up electrics (other than pika-s which cant ohko and takes a lot of damage back anyway) as well as kadabra/jynx/etc, also beats any zard x that arent running a physical move (lol), and toxic isnt rly that useful for tenta since stab sludge bomb is almost always a better move to click for neutral targets and all resists that arent toxic immune are weak to its water stab and/or mega drain. mirror coat can also help a bit with venomoth, tho tentacruel is generally still just losing to roost venomoth (as long as the venomoth user plays attentively).
with mirror coat tenta can also consider +spdef nature, as against pokemon such as jynx mr mime haunter it will mainly be relying on mirror coat anyway, tho it is losing out on the speed tie with zard x.
~ flamethrower is definitely not mandatory on exeggutor-a in this tier, magneton isnt *that* important and is somewhat specially frail anyway, light screen arguably helps more against it, and dragon tail is preferable for most other fire weak targets, particularly venomoth, as well as (m-)pinsir, jynx, articuno to whatever extent that is relevant, and arguably boosted victreebel, with the notable exception of exeggutor-k. in this tier, dragon tail really cannot replace dragon pulse on exeggutor-a bc it has too many bad matchups and typically needs to be preserved to check dugtrio/jolteon so it doesnt want to randomly phase pokemon in. but dragon tail is its only move that can prevent venomoth from setting up on it as well as for certain predicted switches, maybe slash it first with flamethrower second idk, or dropping both eg for dual screens.
~ im not rly sure what articuno is doing in A-, its typing is bad offensively and defensively as well as its 4x rocks weakness, the suggested set seems reasonable (i guess), but the two primary toxic immune pokemon in the tier (tenta and magneton) resist ice and are bad matchups esp if tenta has scald to thaw, it is outsped and ohko'ed after rocks by a lottt, that set is also setup bait for venomoth outside of freezes (and ofc omastar too) and im not sure what articuno is offering to offset all these weaknesses. for example how is articuno better than like, golbat? its better bulk is mostly offset by its bad typing eg being weak to fire and 4x weak to rock slide, golbat has actual coverage with eg sludge bomb + mega drain, and doesnt rly need substitute bc of its poison immunity or toxic bc of stab sludge bomb, so it can run eg whirlwind instead. articuno does get agility and ice shard but idk if it can really use either. idk if im missing something bc i dont understand articuno in a- at all and i made that comparison bc somewhere in c rank seems appropriate to me.
~ to elaborate on why i dont rly think zard y should be ranked at all, zard x's typing is so good here esp defensively, while zard y's typing leaves it easily ohko'ed after rocks by dugtrio and the electrics ie basically all of the tier's revenge killers; so its 4x rocks weakness is an even bigger problem here than in ou, on top of being setup bait for omastar/kabutops. and its stabs have bad neutral coverage with all the rock types in the tier, it generally does worse than zard x against the waters too bc of its defensive typing, so idk what reason there is to use it.)
~ ninetales-a should consider ice shard, as even with a timid nature it does ~50% to dugtrio so it never needs to switch out and if it is healthy it can win 1v1 without having to worry about a rock slide flinch. particularly paired with calm mind rather than nasty plot, since other revenge killers are special attackers and cannot hit it super effectively so it is very hard to revenge with boosted spdef, which means it can wallbreak rather than being limited to sweeping. ninetales-a doesnt have great coverage regardless so being able to run only two of ice beam, dazzling gleam, dark pulse isnt losing that much (ofc it leaves no room for hypnosis). ice shard also helps with venomoth, eg +1 ice beam followed by ice shard usually ko's venomoth after rocks, as well as extra chip damage against faster electrics etc. either to get a ko or before being ko'ed.
ninetales-a still def has significant issues in the tier, its damage output is a lil low in general as well as being pretty completely countered by tentacruel and magneton and ofc crippled by paralysis, but with the flexibility provided by ice shard i think it fits much better somewhere in the b-tier, maybe somewhat comparable to pokemon such as raichu-a and mr. mime, and its rocks weakness is mitigated by rarely having to switch out since unless it is extremely weakened it can only be revenge killed by tauros (assuming it is running ice shard) and it has few truly bad matchups at +1 (rly just magneton and tenta)

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~pika-s: a few move options that can be used in the fourth slot over thunderbolt, which is def usable but also is not mandatory since many pokemon weak to electric such as tentacruel and vaporeon are specially bulky so zippy zap does about as much or more damage anyway, and zippy zap's priority is needed for boosted omastar and kabutops anyway, tbolt is most missed vs m-slowbro. 1 dig does 65-77% to calm mind raichu-a, enabling pika-s to revenge kill raichu-a instead of being setup bait for it, sometimes ohko's magneton, and can maybe catch 'other electrics' ie jolteon trying to switch into (any of its other moves). 2 running thunder rather than tbolt alongside zippy zap provides more power for when zippy zap is not strong enough at the cost of accuracy, and also provides a stab move with a higher paralysis chance to deter eg zard x from switching in, giving it a more clearly differentiated function alongside zippy zap. 3 brick break could be useful to break screens, esp since a lot of screen setters are electric types which can otherwise use pika-s as an opportunity to set screens, and also provides coverage for magneton.
~ tauros: i dislike rock slide, it cant revenge +2 moltres anyway so i presume it is to avoid recoil against targets such as dodrio and for the flinch chance in a bad spot, idt that is typically worth the moveslot. i suggest outrage which is not mentioned rn at all, which can revenge the all important zard x with significantly less chip than any other move, and also the strongest move against exeggutor-a. with none of magneton, clefable and mr mime being extremely common, it is not rly that bad for tauros to be locked into outrage, and unlike thrash omastar cannot usually set up twice against an outrage locked tauros (unless oma is +def nature, lol). thrash def has viability tho, u just cant use it when the opponent has a healthy oma. im not sure what toxic is suggested for (omastar?) so im not really considering it here. (im not sure abt ranking, tauros is interesting in that can be a revenge killer and/or a wallbreaker, so it can maybe replace dugtrio on some teams but it can also (prob more likely) be run alongside it, allowing it to attack more freely and take hits when needed with its decent bulk.)
~ clefable has a moveslot issue bc it wants both tbolt for tenta/molt and flamethrower for magneton, but rly doesnt have room for both. twave is needed for zard x, and calm mind is also mandatory with all the special attackers in the tier. so moonblast / twave / calm mind and either stealth rock or pick a coverage move (usually sr since the moveslot and turn is more valuable to most other possible setters). clefable is a decent para spreader with a good matchup vs electrics due to calm mind, but it needs to watch out for cm/encore raichu-a, and a tolerable dugtrio matchup bc of its bulk. its role other than rocks is really limited to that tho, bc it only outspeeds exeggutors, golem/marowak, and m-slowbro which it usually struggles against, and it has very few favorable type matchups (mainly just exeggutor-a) tho it does have the feature of being able to twave a zard x locked into outrage, and it does reasonably well against fire blast/dpulse sets as well. A- is prob fine but i wrote this since i think the suggested set is wrong
~ haunter seems way too high, i think it belongs around the same rank as mr mime. if it is used it should run mega drain, for golem, and also haunter usually survives +2 aqua jet from (jolly) kabutops after rocks and can then ko and recover most hp back. either thunder(bolt) or wisp/sub/sucker can go in the fourth slot, wisp + mega drain gives a good matchup with marowak-k and golem-a so wisp still has use even tho it is not needed for golem-k. (thunderbolt doesnt provide any additional coverage but has greater bp for like, m-blastoise and maybe vaporeon, thunder is prob a better use of the moveslot)
~ magneton rly *needs* twave, otherwise it does not check venomoth in any way and that is the main reason for using it over other electrics, as well as allowing it to paralyze zard x locked into outrage. i think a- might be a bit high, outside of the venomoth matchup it is basically outclassed by clefable, but that depends on how centralizing venomoth is/becomes, and how teams deal with it bc eg obv checking it with priority means defensive checks arent needed.
~ arbok could be interesting as a venomoth check, it is a good para spreader since it has eq for electrics, poison jab rly isnt a bad stab esp with eq coverage, and earthquake + sucker punch is more than adequate to check paralyzed venomoth regardless of qd boosts. i wouldnt run mega drain bc then u no longer check venomoth if u are weakened, and sucker punch for dugtrio and raichu-a is more important than mega drain for (golem and kabutops?), esp since arbok should be adamant anyway, to usually ohko jolteon after rocks. it is ofc ohkoed by zard x but i think it could move up a little, i def think its better than muk-k which rly isnt any better against electrics, needs to be at full health to take +2 omastar's surf after rocks and cant rly check other special attackers due to its bad def typing, and is too easy to switch into despite its higher attack stat eg it cant do anything (except self destruct) to tentacruel.
~ idk that victreebel should be trying to run sd in this meta, its too slow, there is very little it can set up on, and it really needs the moveslot as without poison stab it has nothing for zard x, which is presumably the reason for running sd as the primary recovery user in the tier. i think better would be sludge bomb, which does much better damage to zard x (38-45%) and also moltres than pjab and ofc has higher bp so should always be the poison stab used; a choice between mega drain and power whip, mega drain prob usually being preferred for recovery, esp against dugtrio as long as vic is out of eq range, but power whip is better vs tentacruel (esp since it avoids mirror coat) and arguably ice beam m-blastoise; sucker punch for raichu-a / psychics and lolhaunter, and ofc for general priority, and sleep powder (or maybe stun spore is possible) to cripple whatever and is also there to not be setup bait for venomoth. could run +speed to outpace neutral m-blastoise but otherwise just run -speed bc it still outspeeds evthg else it needs to (neutral clefable and below) and to preserve its already mediocre bulk. somewhere in B ranks is prob fine since egg forms fit onto teams more easily since they check dugtrio.
 
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