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Lilligant (Analysis)
- Thread starter Chillarmy
- Start date
What about Modest 120 Def / 252 S.Atk / 136 Spe spread?
I spread in 120 Def due dance will make her more bulk on special side. It's will make her reach 250 speed to out speed scarfchomp in Sun or after 2 dance.
I spread in 120 Def due dance will make her more bulk on special side. It's will make her reach 250 speed to out speed scarfchomp in Sun or after 2 dance.
"Google says yes".
Here is an interesting, though unrealistic, moveset for Liligant:
Sleep powder
Dream eater
Giga drain
Quiver dance
Holding a life orb
The only problem with it is that sleep powder will likely need to be used again after a few quiver dances have been used. Liligant may be too frail for this to happen.
Hard to say if it will be OU or UU. I am thinking OU though, personally.
Sleep powder
Dream eater
Giga drain
Quiver dance
Holding a life orb
The only problem with it is that sleep powder will likely need to be used again after a few quiver dances have been used. Liligant may be too frail for this to happen.
Hard to say if it will be OU or UU. I am thinking OU though, personally.
Okay, so I'm pretty much done with this analysis now, so GP / random grammar checks are very much welcome.
Also, to everyone suggesting spreads / sets:
I don't have anything against theorymoning, but if you really want to post a Lilligant set, go for it in this thread instead. I've already mentioned that Lilligant's speed can be dropped a considerable amount for investment into her defenses, so there really isn't much to do with the spread for the Quiver Dance set.
Also, to everyone suggesting spreads / sets:
I don't have anything against theorymoning, but if you really want to post a Lilligant set, go for it in this thread instead. I've already mentioned that Lilligant's speed can be dropped a considerable amount for investment into her defenses, so there really isn't much to do with the spread for the Quiver Dance set.
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments
The only problem is that you have alternated between "her" and "it" when referring to Pokemon. Use either one; do not use both. I have opted to change all the "her" to "it" in my check.
Otherwise, good job.
GP 1 / 2
Additions / Corrections
Comments
<p>While it may seem as though Lilligant is mostly outclassed as a sweeper, access to Quiver Dance, Sleep Powder, and Chlorophyll, as well as high Special Attack and Speed, allow Lilligant to differentiate herself itself from her its fellow offensive Grass-types, particularly Venusaur. Don't overestimate Lilligant's potential, however, as her its 70 / 75 / 75 defenses certainly aren't anything to write home about. Her Its offensive movepool is also ridiculously shallow - Lilligant literally gets nothing outside of Hidden Power and Dream Eater that can hit types Pokemon that resist Grass-type attacks.</p>
[SET]
name: Quiver Dance
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Modest / Timid
ability: Chlorophyll
EV: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With access to Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and blistering Speed thanks to Chlorophyll, Lilligant can be a formidable threat once her its checks and counters have been taken care of. Her Its offensive stat is nothing to scoff at, as a base 110 Special Attack is sure to leave a dent in most specially bulky Pokemon, such as Jellicent and Evolite Dusclops.</p>
<p>Lilligant's movepool may be shallow, but she it has a few useful offensive options, such as the newly improved Giga Drain. Thanks to the power boost, Giga Drain is almost as powerful as Energy Ball, doing considerable damage after a Quiver Dance while healing most, if not all, HP that Lilligant lost while setting up. Energy Ball is an alternative to Giga Drain, as it's slightly more powerful and comes with the added bonus of the occasional Special Defense drop. Petal Dance received a power boost as well, becoming just as powerful as Outrage in fact, making it very powerful after a Quiver Dance, but it is a lesser option due to locking Lilligant in on a single move with mediocre coverage.</p>
<p>The item and nature choices are solely up to one's preferences in a sweeper. With a Modest nature, Lilligant can obtain its highest damage output possible while Speed tying with everything up to and including Adamant Lucario when not under sunlight. A Timid nature, however, is desirable if one decides to forgo the extra power in order to potentially give Lilligant setup fodder or prevent it from being outpaced and revenge killed before it gets the chance to sweep; given a Timid nature and sun support, Lilligant caps off at an insane 612 Speed before a boost, beating even Timid Choice Scarf Thundurus. If one wishes to run the bulkier route with Doredia Lilligant, then 116 EVs can be taken away from Lilligant's its Speed investment, and placed into her its HP or either defenses for better survivability. The choice between Leftovers and Life Orb is debatable as well, but ultimately boils down to survivability vs. versus power. Leftovers is recommended, as Lilligant will usually hit hard enough after a boost or two. However, running Life Orb is viable in order to maximize Lilligant's damage output while healing off any recoil with Giga Drain.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Unfortunately, Lilligant's coverage is extremely limited, so her the Hidden Power type used should reflect which threats ones its team has covered. Hidden Power Fire is Lilligant's best bet for hitting most Steel-types before they can retaliate, as well as Grass-types. If Steel-types are of little concern, or if one is running Magnezone, Hidden Power Ice can be used in order to hit most Dragon-types for at least super effective damage while maintaining coverage on opposing Grass-types. Hidden Power Rock can be used as well in order to hit Volcarona switch-ins while keeping maintaining coverage on Salamence, Dragonite, Abomasnow, and Gyarados. Finally, Hidden Power Ground prevents Lilligant from being completely walled by Heatran, but with the prevalence of Air Balloon variants, Lilligant will usually be required to attack Heatran with Giga Drain first, placing her it at risk to a powerful Fire Blast.</p>
<p>Without many Quiver Dances under her its belt, Lilligant is walled to death by Blissey and Evolite Chansey. Lilligant's defenses also make her it prone vulnerable to priority attacks from the likes of Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, and Scizor. For these reasons, Wobbuffet makes an excellent partner for this set; Wobbuffet can not only rid the field of pesky priority attacks, but can also remove special walls from play with the infamous Tickle + Pursuit strategy and give Lilligant multiple turns to set up with Encore. Forretress also works well as a partner for Lilligant due to its type synergy and access to a plethora of support moves, but it has to be wary of becoming setup fodder for some of the mentioned priority users.</p>
[Other Options]
<p>With a fairly large support movepool, a defensive set is possible, but Lilligant will usually be outclassed by other defensive Grass-types. However, it's not a bad idea to include Leech Seed or Aromatherapy over Hidden Power or Sleep Powder, respectively, in order to maintain a high Speed stat while giving Lilligant some much-needed longevity. Synthesis is a viable option with sun support, but it's difficult to fit on an offensive set. It's recommended to stray away from Solarbeam as while it may seem like a great option on paper with sun support, it can very easily spell Lilligant's doom due to opposing weather inducers such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar.</p>
<p>A Lum Berry or Red Card can be used as the item of choice in order to potentially give Lilligant more boosts, but both are generally inferior to Sleep Powder. Teeter Dance can also be used to give Lilligant more chances to set up if Sleep Powder's accuracy is a bit displeasing, but confusion is much less reliable than sleep. A Choice Specs set can be used, but Lilligant's offensive movepool is borderline dry.</p>
[Checks and Counters]
<p>Because Lilligant lacks reliable coverage, obligatory special sponges such as Reuniclus, Blissey, Evolite Chansey, and Latias can stop Lilligant with very little effort and retaliate with the appropriate move. Keep in mind, though, that without a reliable method of completely stopping Lilligant, such as Calm Mind, a status move, or Trick, the aforementioned Pokemon will be nothing more than setup fodder. With Liquid Ooze, access to Toxic Spikes, and STAB Poison-type attacks, Tentacruel makes for a very solid counter to Lilligant, but it has to watch out for Hidden Power Ground.</p>
<p>Figuring out Lilligant's Hidden Power is incredibly helpful in countering it. Without Hidden Power Fire or Ground, most Steel-types will pose a large threat to Lilligant. If Hidden Power Ice isn't present, Hydreigon, Salamence, and Dragonite can either set up on, or quickly beat Lilligant with Fire Blast given that another member of one's team has already taken Sleep Powder. Without Hidden Power Rock, Volcarona has no problem switching into Lilligant's onslaughts and setting up its own Quiver Dances.</p>
<p>Priority users such as Conkeldurr and Mamoswine can prey on Lilligant's low Defense stat and score a revenge kill, but both have to look out for Sleep Powder or Giga Drain. If all else fails, however, getting rid of sunlight is very beneficial to countering Lilligant, as it allows for faster Pokemon, namely Choice Scarf users, to revenge her it.</p>
[Dream World]
<p>Lilligant needs all the Speed she it can get via Chlorophyll, but Leaf Guard shouldn't be overlooked, as it allows Lilligant to set up on Blissey and Evolite Chansey and gives Lilligant an immunity to Toxic Spikes under the sun.</p>
[SET]
name: Quiver Dance
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Modest / Timid
ability: Chlorophyll
EV: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With access to Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and blistering Speed thanks to Chlorophyll, Lilligant can be a formidable threat once her its checks and counters have been taken care of. Her Its offensive stat is nothing to scoff at, as a base 110 Special Attack is sure to leave a dent in most specially bulky Pokemon, such as Jellicent and Evolite Dusclops.</p>
<p>Lilligant's movepool may be shallow, but she it has a few useful offensive options, such as the newly improved Giga Drain. Thanks to the power boost, Giga Drain is almost as powerful as Energy Ball, doing considerable damage after a Quiver Dance while healing most, if not all, HP that Lilligant lost while setting up. Energy Ball is an alternative to Giga Drain, as it's slightly more powerful and comes with the added bonus of the occasional Special Defense drop. Petal Dance received a power boost as well, becoming just as powerful as Outrage in fact, making it very powerful after a Quiver Dance, but it is a lesser option due to locking Lilligant in on a single move with mediocre coverage.</p>
<p>The item and nature choices are solely up to one's preferences in a sweeper. With a Modest nature, Lilligant can obtain its highest damage output possible while Speed tying with everything up to and including Adamant Lucario when not under sunlight. A Timid nature, however, is desirable if one decides to forgo the extra power in order to potentially give Lilligant setup fodder or prevent it from being outpaced and revenge killed before it gets the chance to sweep; given a Timid nature and sun support, Lilligant caps off at an insane 612 Speed before a boost, beating even Timid Choice Scarf Thundurus. If one wishes to run the bulkier route with Doredia Lilligant, then 116 EVs can be taken away from Lilligant's its Speed investment, and placed into her its HP or either defenses for better survivability. The choice between Leftovers and Life Orb is debatable as well, but ultimately boils down to survivability vs. versus power. Leftovers is recommended, as Lilligant will usually hit hard enough after a boost or two. However, running Life Orb is viable in order to maximize Lilligant's damage output while healing off any recoil with Giga Drain.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Unfortunately, Lilligant's coverage is extremely limited, so her the Hidden Power type used should reflect which threats ones its team has covered. Hidden Power Fire is Lilligant's best bet for hitting most Steel-types before they can retaliate, as well as Grass-types. If Steel-types are of little concern, or if one is running Magnezone, Hidden Power Ice can be used in order to hit most Dragon-types for at least super effective damage while maintaining coverage on opposing Grass-types. Hidden Power Rock can be used as well in order to hit Volcarona switch-ins while keeping maintaining coverage on Salamence, Dragonite, Abomasnow, and Gyarados. Finally, Hidden Power Ground prevents Lilligant from being completely walled by Heatran, but with the prevalence of Air Balloon variants, Lilligant will usually be required to attack Heatran with Giga Drain first, placing her it at risk to a powerful Fire Blast.</p>
<p>Without many Quiver Dances under her its belt, Lilligant is walled to death by Blissey and Evolite Chansey. Lilligant's defenses also make her it prone vulnerable to priority attacks from the likes of Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, and Scizor. For these reasons, Wobbuffet makes an excellent partner for this set; Wobbuffet can not only rid the field of pesky priority attacks, but can also remove special walls from play with the infamous Tickle + Pursuit strategy and give Lilligant multiple turns to set up with Encore. Forretress also works well as a partner for Lilligant due to its type synergy and access to a plethora of support moves, but it has to be wary of becoming setup fodder for some of the mentioned priority users.</p>
[Other Options]
<p>With a fairly large support movepool, a defensive set is possible, but Lilligant will usually be outclassed by other defensive Grass-types. However, it's not a bad idea to include Leech Seed or Aromatherapy over Hidden Power or Sleep Powder, respectively, in order to maintain a high Speed stat while giving Lilligant some much-needed longevity. Synthesis is a viable option with sun support, but it's difficult to fit on an offensive set. It's recommended to stray away from Solarbeam as while it may seem like a great option on paper with sun support, it can very easily spell Lilligant's doom due to opposing weather inducers such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar.</p>
<p>A Lum Berry or Red Card can be used as the item of choice in order to potentially give Lilligant more boosts, but both are generally inferior to Sleep Powder. Teeter Dance can also be used to give Lilligant more chances to set up if Sleep Powder's accuracy is a bit displeasing, but confusion is much less reliable than sleep. A Choice Specs set can be used, but Lilligant's offensive movepool is borderline dry.</p>
[Checks and Counters]
<p>Because Lilligant lacks reliable coverage, obligatory special sponges such as Reuniclus, Blissey, Evolite Chansey, and Latias can stop Lilligant with very little effort and retaliate with the appropriate move. Keep in mind, though, that without a reliable method of completely stopping Lilligant, such as Calm Mind, a status move, or Trick, the aforementioned Pokemon will be nothing more than setup fodder. With Liquid Ooze, access to Toxic Spikes, and STAB Poison-type attacks, Tentacruel makes for a very solid counter to Lilligant, but it has to watch out for Hidden Power Ground.</p>
<p>Figuring out Lilligant's Hidden Power is incredibly helpful in countering it. Without Hidden Power Fire or Ground, most Steel-types will pose a large threat to Lilligant. If Hidden Power Ice isn't present, Hydreigon, Salamence, and Dragonite can either set up on, or quickly beat Lilligant with Fire Blast given that another member of one's team has already taken Sleep Powder. Without Hidden Power Rock, Volcarona has no problem switching into Lilligant's onslaughts and setting up its own Quiver Dances.</p>
<p>Priority users such as Conkeldurr and Mamoswine can prey on Lilligant's low Defense stat and score a revenge kill, but both have to look out for Sleep Powder or Giga Drain. If all else fails, however, getting rid of sunlight is very beneficial to countering Lilligant, as it allows for faster Pokemon, namely Choice Scarf users, to revenge her it.</p>
[Dream World]
<p>Lilligant needs all the Speed she it can get via Chlorophyll, but Leaf Guard shouldn't be overlooked, as it allows Lilligant to set up on Blissey and Evolite Chansey and gives Lilligant an immunity to Toxic Spikes under the sun.</p>
The only problem is that you have alternated between "her" and "it" when referring to Pokemon. Use either one; do not use both. I have opted to change all the "her" to "it" in my check.
Otherwise, good job.
GP 1 / 2
I like the recommended moveset here, but I need an opinion. My Lilligant knows Quiver Dance, Petal Dance, Giga Drain and Energy Ball. Its kind of a redundant moveset, I know. I wanna know if its worth replacing Energy Ball with Teeter Dance.
Choose either Giga Drain, Energy Ball or Petal Dance. Having all three is redundant as hell and makes it easily walled. Use either HP Ice or HP Ground for one of its four moveslots so it isn't so easily walled and use Sleep Powder for another so that it can potentially sleep a would be counter.
Yeah, I was also thinking about Sleep Powder. Ahh My Lilligant can't learn any of those HPs, mine can learn HP Ghost, which is pretty much useless. I'll get rid of Energy Ball for sure, but again, is it worth teaching it Teeter Dance?
The 50% shot really isn't worth it on paper and to be honest I'd rather rely on Sleep hax rather than confusion hax. Anywho, I'd consider breeding one with one of the aforementioned HPs or finding a breeder off the trading section of the forums to trade with.
Okay. Thanks for the tips!
Leaf Storm really needs mentioning, at least in other options, since it OHKOs Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed without any need for a Quiver Dance.
This allows you to get rid of the opposing weather starter if they don't switch, and keep Liligant at full health so she can come back in once the Sun is up.
Obviously, the move would be best on a non-Quiver Dance set, but since you're not listing one, other options is the best place for Leaf Storm. It would be a travesty not to mention it, after Katakiri made such amazing use of it on this RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447445
This allows you to get rid of the opposing weather starter if they don't switch, and keep Liligant at full health so she can come back in once the Sun is up.
Obviously, the move would be best on a non-Quiver Dance set, but since you're not listing one, other options is the best place for Leaf Storm. It would be a travesty not to mention it, after Katakiri made such amazing use of it on this RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3447445
A variant of the Quiver Dance set.
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Own Tempo
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis
- Petal Dance
Petal Dance has an amazing 120 power, and Quiver Dance only brings that up to amazing levels. Since Lilligant is frail, it should set up in the safety of a sleeping opponent, which is the role of Sleep Powder. Synthesis recovers regular damage and Life Orb recoil, works well under the sun. Own Tempo protects Petal Dance's recoil.
Dunno if you like it or not, I've had a good experience with it, maybe you could mention it.
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Own Tempo
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis
- Petal Dance
Petal Dance has an amazing 120 power, and Quiver Dance only brings that up to amazing levels. Since Lilligant is frail, it should set up in the safety of a sleeping opponent, which is the role of Sleep Powder. Synthesis recovers regular damage and Life Orb recoil, works well under the sun. Own Tempo protects Petal Dance's recoil.
Dunno if you like it or not, I've had a good experience with it, maybe you could mention it.
Uhh...petal dance sux coz it is resisted by 7 types so you run thr risk of being set up on. Nit coz of the confusion (think dd mence)
I was going to add a mention of Leaf Storm in the OP the second I saw that RMT, but decided against it for a few reasons:
- Leaf Storm is only going to work if the opposing weather inducer doesn't see it coming (seriously, I honestly don't see why any of those Pokemon wouldn't switch out from Lilligant in order to avoid Sleep Powder or Giga Drain). Adding Leaf Storm in OO only takes away from the surprise factor, making Sceptile, Exeggutor, hell even Roserade superior options.
- Lilligant is much better off boosting its stats so it doesn't have to worry about being outpaced even if the weather gets changed. That's one of the main reasons to use Lilligant over any other Chlorophyll sweeper.
- Sleeping other weather inducers is normally much more beneficial than just outright KOing them, as it gives things like Sawsbuck and Venusaur much needed time to set up.
That sums up why Petal Dance should be seldom used pretty well IMO.
Just a small nitpick, but Lilligant doesn't need Timid to outspeed Scarf Thundurus in Sun (or any other remotely common Scarfer really). Plus Thundurus can't hurt it after a few Quiver Dances, and will most likely T-Wave Lilligant regardless of its speed. Just thaught you could maybe put a better example of why using Timid is better.
Hm, good point. I changed that sentence to something more practical and generally useful to anyone who reads this analysis.
Oh, whoops, lol. I'll add that the OP right away